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CelticPredator posted:Also, GD, please stay. Even if people are getting a tad bit mad, I like where the discussion is kinda going. Thanks, but this feels like the same old thing debating SMG's motivations and whatnot and it won't lead anywhere unless I produce something substantial to support my case. Which is hard for me under the best of circumstances and since it's 2 AM here these are not the best of circumstances.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:04
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If you're going to make a movie of one of the biggest pop culture icons of the 20th century and beyond, yeah, it stands to reason you should put some thought into what traditionally makes that character work. Doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a bad movie otherwise, but it might be a bad Superman movie. But really, all this poo poo seems beside the point to me, since Man of Steel has way bigger problems than being a bad Superman movie, like being way too long, way too boring, not having a single really good performance or a single memorable line in the script, and dragging out the two only really solid things - the score and the action - way past the point where they stop being impressive and start feeling wearying.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:05
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I thought "Welcome to the Planet" / "Good to be here, Lois," was a nifty exchange, but admittedly the movie had earned a lot of goodwill with me by then.CelticPredator posted:It didn't live up to what it I wanted it to be, and I don't like what it is. There's just a certain point where, to use some hyperbole, I'm not going to wander into a thread about Casablanca and complain that it's not my dead mother coming back to life. The conversation is more interesting if you focus on why you "don't like what it is" if you can separate that from the idea that "it didn't live up to what I wanted it to be."
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Aug 6, 2014 01:07
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:If you're going to make a movie of one of the biggest pop culture icons of the 20th century and beyond, yeah, it stands to reason you should put some thought into what traditionally makes that character work. Doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a bad movie otherwise, but it might be a bad Superman movie. There isn't just one answer to what makes Superman work, though. There have been many takes on the character over the years that explore different facets of the character, and Man of Steel is one that simply doesn't align at all with CelticPredator's own preferred take because its doing something different instead. Like my favorite take on Superman was in All-Star Superman. Man of Steel is extremely far from that portrayal and its tone. I'm not going to criticize it for that, though, because they're two different stories.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:08
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Sir Kodiak posted:I thought "Welcome to the Planet" / "Good to be here, Lois," was a nifty exchange, but admittedly the movie had earned a lot of goodwill with me by then. The closest thing I got is "I WILL FIND HIM" but that's just cuz that's where Shannon goes full bug-eye. Lord Krangdar posted:There isn't just one answer to what makes Superman work, though. Correct, there are many. And to some, Man of Steel hit on none of them. For me, it had moments where it nailed the alien grandeur or the apple-pie Americana, but they were few and fleeting.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:17
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:The closest thing I got is "I WILL FIND HIM" but that's just cuz that's where Shannon goes full bug-eye. I also liked "I have journeyed across an ocean of stars to reach you," though like how your line gains a lot from Shannon, that one picks a lot up from the visual and audio presentation of the global broadcast.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:18
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Sir Kodiak posted:Dredd, I always forget about Dredd. I did not expect it to be as good as it turned out. Uncle Boogeyman posted:But really, all this poo poo seems beside the point to me, since Man of Steel has way bigger problems than being a bad Superman movie, like being way too long, way too boring, not having a single really good performance or a single memorable line in the script, and dragging out the two only really solid things - the score and the action - way past the point where they stop being impressive and start feeling wearying. I actually agree with all of this but not to the same degree, I guess. Tezcatlipoca fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 01:19
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:If you're going to make a movie of one of the biggest pop culture icons of the 20th century and beyond, yeah, it stands to reason you should put some thought into what traditionally makes that character work. Doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a bad movie otherwise, but it might be a bad Superman movie. I disagree with the no good performances thing. I think Crowe, Lane, and Costner were all quite good.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:22
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Spatula City posted:I disagree with the no good performances thing. I think Crowe, Lane, and Costner were all quite good. They're solid, but Amy Adams is better than all of them. She makes some really mediocre dialog work.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:23
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Spatula City posted:I disagree with the no good performances thing. I think Crowe, Lane, and Costner were all quite good. Sir Kodiak posted:They're solid, but Amy Adams is better than all of them. She makes some really mediocre dialog work. I thought Adams was way too sleepy. Ditto Crowe. Lane I barely remember. Costner was solid up until his death scene.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:28
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Sir Kodiak posted:They're solid, but Amy Adams is better than all of them. She makes some really mediocre dialog work. One of my favorite scenes in the whole movie is when she meets up with the Internet scumbag guy to leak her story, and she orders whiskey and downs it in one go. In other movies that would have been a really clichéd scene about how this girl can hold her water, but that scene convinced me that Lois Lane decided to get totally drunk then and there.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:28
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Amy Adams could play Lois Lane recovering from open heart surgery so it's no surprise she's effortless. Kevin Costner doesn't play Pa Kent so much as he is Pa Kent. Shannon's bellowing lunatic needed some more Peter Lorre.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:31
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edit: ^^^^ Got it in before I posted. Apparently I remembered correctly.Uncle Boogeyman posted:Costner was solid up until his death scene. I think it was Hundu who said that 90% of Costner's performance was that you could believe he showed up on set wearing that flannel shirt. Can't agree on Adams, though, obviously. You can practically see her lift the dialog up on her shoulders in, for instance, the interrogation scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSUGgdhcFsE
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Aug 6, 2014 01:32
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Oh, don't bring Mad Max or Terminator into this discussion, much less their sequels. Terminator 2 loving owns and gently caress you.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:33
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Yeah, he kills it.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:34
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gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:Terminator 2 loving owns and gently caress you. I was saying that all four of those movies are so obviously out of The Avengers' league it isn't even funny.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:34
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gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:Terminator 2 loving owns and gently caress you. Calm down, his point was that I made an inadequate comparison because these do indeed own.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:34
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Grendels Dad posted:I don't think anybody is arguing that this the point of Man of Steel. It's that they didn't like that point, and people arguing that it should make them like it makes me think I just have to find that car subtext thing and The Avengers will magically turn into a Good Movie, shoddy cinematography be damned. A good point of comparison would be something like The Asylum's excellent mockbuster Rise of the Zombies (a mash up of Walking Dead and Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes), where pyrotechnic equipment is entirely undisguised in the middle of the screen and so-on. The point there is an aggressive sarcasm and thinly-veiled disdain for the audience. A dude cuts open his arm and you see thick rubber. The satirical message there is that gives zombie fans exactly what they want - dozens of people getting shot in the head - with a punk artlessness. A key Avengers scene, to me, is the one where Black Widow springboards off Cap's shield, moving in one smooth motion from bad set hell to bad greenscreen hell. This marks her becoming a true superheroine. Think of, also, the scene where Stark is thrown out of his apartment set and sails through a really bad green effect before the CG suit envelops and cushions him. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Zizek plagiarizing hardline white supremacists has borne fruit. For the record, I am 100% in favor of stealing from white supremacists! SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 01:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:For the record, I am 100% in favor of stealing from white supremacists! I am as well, but I must say I draw the line at pilfering their repugnant values and attitudes.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:47
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Amy Adams could play Lois Lane recovering from open heart surgery so it's no surprise she's effortless. See, this is why I was so shocked. Man of Steel is the first and so far only time I've disliked Amy Adams in anything. poo poo, I thought Kate Bosworth was better.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:00
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That's low. I've always felt Kate Bosworth was just miscast and out of her depth.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:05
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I actually like Kate Bosworth and all the performances in Superman Returns. Say what you want about how their take on Superman, but I think Routh did a great job with a Superman struggling with accepting godhood and his own disconnection from humanity. I do think Routh would have done amazing as Morrison's young, t-shirt wearing, socialist avenger Superman from a few years back though.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:09
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Routh was good, and I think Bosworth did the best she could, but yeah, she was miscast. The whole angle of Returns was that these people are the older, world weary, post-9/11 versions of the Superman 78 characters, and Kate Bosworth was at 22 at the time of filming!
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Aug 6, 2014 02:21
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Bosworth was miscast, but Amy Adams was perfect for a Lois Lane that, unfortunately, didn't actually appear in Man of Steel.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:40
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BrianWilly posted:Amy Adams was perfect for a Lois Lane that, unfortunately, didn't actually appear in Man of Steel. Exactly how I feel about it.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:49
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Lord Krangdar posted:It's ok to not like a movie, but at a certain point to keep criticizing it for not being what it decidedly is not (your own idiosyncratic idea of how Superman/superheroes should be) becomes like criticizing this painting because its not a very good depiction of a snowy Winter scene: CelticPredator posted:I mean, we can go onto semantics on the film, but I don't see how this example works. Because if theoretically the artist's intention was to make it a winter scene, he did a bad job at making me feel that way.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:49
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BrianWilly posted:Bosworth was miscast, but Amy Adams was perfect for a Lois Lane that, unfortunately, didn't actually appear in Man of Steel. I was really put off by the "tinkle" line. It's such a stupid line to get caught on, but it was such an off line and reflects nothing else we know of or learn about that character.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:50
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/\ "Back in a mo', Superman. I gotta go hang a piss."Uncle Boogeyman posted:The closest thing I got is "I WILL FIND HIM" but that's just cuz that's where Shannon goes full bug-eye. This, and the whole "every horrible thing I did was for my people" speech were like, "ok this is why they cast goddamn Michael Shannon". I'm a big fan of the guy, but I didn't really dig his performance in Man of Steel beyond a couple of scenes. It felt really awkward and stilted to me, though it's been awhile since I've seen it. DangerDummy! fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 02:56
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DangerDummy! posted:This, and the whole "every horrible thing I did was for my people" speech were like, "ok this is why they cast goddamn Michael Shannon". I'm a big fan of the guy, but I didn't really dig his performance in Man of Steel beyond a couple of scenes. It felt really awkward and stilted to me, though it's been awhile since I've seen it. It's definitely far from his best work, but it's still my favorite performance in the movie just because I love Michael Shannon. He turns awkward and stilted into a strength where you really get the sense that this dude's just barely keeping it together, like on Boardwalk Empire. I also remembered this line from Tim Brayton's review, which is right on the money about Lois: quote:the perfectly-cast Amy Adams is totally wasted on a Lois Lane whose character is dismally familiar from every one of Christopher Nolan's own movies, where women are steely, determined, and very boring
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Aug 6, 2014 03:05
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:It's definitely far from his best work, but it's still my favorite performance in the movie just because I love Michael Shannon. He turns awkward and stilted into a strength where you really get the sense that this dude's just barely keeping it together, like on Boardwalk Empire. You know, two secone's after I hit send, I started think more about Shannon in what I've enjoyed him in. Boardwalk Empire, that Michael Kuklinski movie (not great, but interesting, though I've followed that case since I was a kid, and holy poo poo did I not recognize Chris Evans!), Bug, that Funny or Die! video... He's got almost a Christopher Walken quality to him that I've never really stepped back and looked at. I'll have to watch Man of Steel again with that in mind. I liked the movie well enough, anyway. A solid B-.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:19
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DangerDummy! posted:You know, two secone's after I hit send, I started think more about Shannon in what I've enjoyed him in. Boardwalk Empire, that Michael Kuklinski movie (not great, but interesting, though I've followed that case since I was a kid, and holy poo poo did I not recognize Chris Evans!), Bug, that Funny or Die! video... He's got almost a Christopher Walken quality to him that I've never really stepped back and looked at. I'll have to watch Man of Steel again with that in mind. I liked the movie well enough, anyway. A solid B-. Shannon gives Zod this stiff upper lip thing where he's so stiff that he just seems kinda dorky and it creates this weird dichotomy where you almost wonder why he inspires such loyalty in these people following him, but then you don't because he has the natural gravity and authority to back it up. To get even more nerdy with it, the nearest comparison I can think of is Steven Dillane as Stannis on Game of Thrones.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:22
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I can't believe Marvel got the rights to Ghost Rider back last year and still doesn't have every MCU after credits sequence be Ghost Rider penance staring any surviving villains into oblivion.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:22
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Neo Rasa posted:I can't believe Marvel got the rights to Ghost Rider back last year and still doesn't have every MCU after credits sequence be Ghost Rider penance staring any surviving villains into oblivion. I thought the Cage Ghost Rider movies were Marvel Studios affairs? The second one, at least.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:23
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I thought the Cage Ghost Rider movies were Marvel Studios affairs? The second one, at least. No, the last one was 2012 and the rights reverted in 2013.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:35
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Shannon gives Zod this stiff upper lip thing where he's so stiff that he just seems kinda dorky and it creates this weird dichotomy where you almost wonder why he inspires such loyalty in these people following him, but then you don't because he has the natural gravity and authority to back it up. To get even more nerdy with it, the nearest comparison I can think of is Steven Dillane as Stannis on Game of Thrones. That's a pretty interesting read on the character. He's a scary dork. I've got a guy I answer to in corporate like that. He's complete milquetoast most of the time, but you head for the loving hills when he's looking to hold someone accountable for something.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:54
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Hbomberguy posted:This analogy fails...at being a bad analogy. What I'm saying is I like it. I give the artist credit for showing me what they wanted to show me. But judging Man of Steel as Man of Steel, I still don't like it. The characters are all boring and unlikable, and like Boogeyman said, the acting is pretty poor. And I hate the destruction thing. The film was just an unpleasant, frustrating experience, and I really would not like to watch it ever again.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:13
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Man of Steel is more like an epic than an action movie. It's an interesting, novel take on both the character and on the superhero concept. The plot revolves around how important the main character is. If it had gone even further in that direction, trimmed down and tightened up the fight scenes, maybe had Lex Luthor rebuilding and gone on long enough that it needed an intermission in the middle.... Well, with luck, the next one will be more like Man Of Steel Part 2 than what they're selling it as.Uncle Boogeyman posted:Destroying (or lifting) cars is accepted superhero movie shorthand for "this dude's strong." See also Hellboy, Fantastic Four, Superman Returns, The Incredible Hulk, etc. 
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Aug 6, 2014 04:21
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Ugh, look at this terrible screenshot. What is even happening here? What's the context? Is it an ad for umbrellas? You can barely even see that monkey, the shot is so out of focus. And what's with everyone being shot in profile? Don't even get me started on the lazy post-production job done on the background CGI, with those faceless people and half-assed blobs for shadows. Scale and depth of field is all hosed up too. Maybe I'll post an edit job later with some lines on it to make it more clear, but it should be pretty obvious to everyone why this shot looks so off to the human eye.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:43
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CelticPredator posted:Ok. How about this, it failed to engage me because it wasn't entertaining. I mean, look. I went into why scenes didn't work for me, but overall, the drat summer superhero movie wasn't fun! I'm not an expect on film here. I know a bit here and there. I can dissect a little bit. But my gut tells me the movie was just bad. Guts aren't good for criticism, but thank Christ I'm not a critic, right? There's nothing wrong with not liking a movie, nobody's saying that's not a valid way to feel. But if you want to contribute to a discussion about a movie you need to offer something beyond "not my Superman." Because your Superman isn't necessarily everyone else's, so whether or not a movie lives up to the idea of what it 'should' be in your head isn't something you should expect people to actually have to consider and respond to. It's a selfish way to talk about movies. Like, there are a lot of movies people here are passionate about that I hate for completely subjective, personal reasons. I choose not to talk about those films because why would anyone else give a poo poo if I found it 'just boring' or whatever? Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 04:57
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Jamesman posted:Ugh, look at this terrible screenshot. What is even happening here? What's the context? Is it an ad for umbrellas? You can barely even see that monkey, the shot is so out of focus. And what's with everyone being shot in profile? I agree with you more often than I don't, Jamesman, but you were far less crabby when you had that Wesley Willis avatar.
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Aug 6, 2014 05:42
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