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Wait until you can wait for the module! Are they continuing Dragon magazine? They could conceivably drag this game's release out for its whole production run.
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Aug 6, 2014 11:38
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Jack the Lad posted:The Battle Master's level 15 feature, Relentless, has been heavily nerfed.
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Aug 6, 2014 12:53
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I got to use the "Goad" Battle Master ability. Then the monster just flew away. I felt super OP.
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Aug 6, 2014 13:22
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I know people here were all abloobloo don't play PF, but I stand by it being better then 5e. Path of War from what I've heard is even better then ToB. The actual answer is don't play either mind you.
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Aug 6, 2014 13:33
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ProfessorCirno posted:I know people here were all abloobloo don't play PF, but I stand by it being better then 5e. Path of War from what I've heard is even better then ToB. Like the save disparity in 5e. It's a real concern. But it's peanuts compared to the save disparity in PF. Fighters? Yeah, kinda looking bad in 5e. In PF? They're terrible all around. No comparison, really. Though you're right on the last point.
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Aug 6, 2014 14:11
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Jack the Lad posted:The Battle Master's level 15 feature, Relentless, has been heavily nerfed. 15th level is the level where the transmuter feature includes "you now have an infinite amount of gold" right?
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Aug 6, 2014 14:28
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DalaranJ posted:15th level is the level where the transmuter feature includes "you now have an infinite amount of gold" right? No, Transmuters get that (60,200 gp per 16 hours) at level 14. Along with the ability to reduce a willing creature's age by 3d10 years, remove all curses/diseases/poisons and restore someone to full HP, bring someone back from the dead or turn a 5 foot cube of one material into another material of equal or lesser value. e: Seems like these features may have been nerfed in the release PHB. They also get proficiency on Con saves at level 6, which saves them a feat and allows them to take Resilient for another save. Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 14:39
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Man, gently caress Transmutation. It's even worse than Conjuration for "specializing in doing everything."
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Aug 6, 2014 15:03
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Jack the Lad posted:No, Transmuters get that (60,200 gp per 16 hours) at level 14. Along with the ability to reduce a willing creature's age by 3d10 years, remove all curses/diseases/poisons and restore someone to full HP, bring someone back from the dead or turn a 5 foot cube of one material into another material of equal or lesser value. While I know D&D is a murderhobo game... Being able to just...grant eternal youth at will? That sounds like it'd break all of economy and society. That's ignoring the infinite gold thing, too.
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Aug 6, 2014 15:06
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ProfessorCirno posted:I know people here were all abloobloo don't play PF, but I stand by it being better then 5e. Noooo way. Whatever its problems, 5e has at least dramatically improved on 3.5/PF's usability issues, and it's nerfed casters heavily enough that combat balance can legitimately swing on things like HP and DPS.
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Aug 6, 2014 15:16
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Daetrin posted:While I know D&D is a murderhobo game... Yep. The infinite gold thing has been removed (instead you can turn one nonmagical item into another of equal or lesser value) and turning materials into other materials only lasts 1 hour now. Panacea (remove all curses, disease, poison, regain all hit points), restore life (raise dead), and restore youth are still in, though. Every king will have a transmuter on staff, I imagine.
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Aug 6, 2014 15:52
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Jack the Lad posted:Yep. Someone needs to run a campaign where a transmuter did a ritual thing for "turn one nonmagical item into another of equal or lesser value" that got out control and turned into a paperclip maximizer.
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Aug 6, 2014 15:56
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dwarf74 posted:No, no way in which a slightly modded, heavily bloated version of 3.5 which never attempted to solve any of the deep issues with the system, is better than 5e. PF has all the same problems at 5e, just moreso, and a whole lot more of them. Ferrinus posted:Noooo way. Whatever its problems, 5e has at least dramatically improved on 3.5/PF's usability issues, and it's nerfed casters heavily enough that combat balance can legitimately swing on things like HP and DPS. Here's the thing - PF and 3.x both have large active crowds of players who know the problems and numerous ways to fix their issues. 3.x and PF both have a plethora of materials you can use and just, like, ban the full casters and poo poo. Like in 3.x you can have a party of a Factotum, a Warblade, a Beguiler, and a Bard and have far fewer issues. 5e's problems have no fixes. If this was 2001 I would agree. It's not 2001. 5e doesn't have to contend with 3.x's broken-rear end core, it has to contend with the entirety of it. Like your argument is "the class named Fighter isn't as screwed in 5e." But the concept is screwed way harder, because that's your only choice.
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Aug 6, 2014 17:44
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"Don't play any of these classes if you know what's good for you" isn't really a "fix" for most of 3.X's issues. Even in a beguiler/warblade/dread necromancer party you've got poo poo like recalculating half your character sheet if you get dexterity drained, keeping track of the durations and effects of various overlapping buff spells, resolving nightmare spells like Evard's Black Tentacles... 5e is actually simpler, faster, and better balanced than the last edition its fans admit exists. Like, you could just play 5e without any fighters or rogues, but the pressure to is far less than the pressure to chop off both the bottom and top end of the class list in Pathfinder.
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Aug 6, 2014 17:50
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Anyone want to have a crack at importing 4e's fighter into 5e?
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Aug 6, 2014 17:50
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Part 2 of the Acts of Geek review is out Reddit is decidedly unhappy with the fact the review describes how the TOTM mechanics don't really work, and are calling the reviewer stupid for not using miniatures and a map...
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Aug 6, 2014 17:50
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Gort posted:Anyone want to have a crack at importing 4e's fighter into 5e? A direct translation would still be underpowered, relative to casters. I tried to sketch a version that belongs in the same game as a Wizard. But I'm not sure even that goes far enough.
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Aug 6, 2014 17:54
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eth0.n posted:A direct translation would still be underpowered, relative to casters. I tried to sketch a version that belongs in the same game as a Wizard. But I'm not sure even that goes far enough. I haven't played 5e yet, but that looks pretty great.
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Aug 6, 2014 17:59
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Ferrinus posted:"Don't play any of these classes if you know what's good for you" isn't really a "fix" for most of 3.X's issues. Even in a beguiler/warblade/dread necromancer party you've got poo poo like recalculating half your character sheet if you get dexterity drained, keeping track of the durations and effects of various overlapping buff spells, resolving nightmare spells like Evard's Black Tentacles... 5e is actually simpler, faster, and better balanced than the last edition its fans admit exists. You're kinda missing the problem. "I wanna play a cool warrior dude with options." 3.x has an answer to that. 5e doesn't. I mean my solution in 3.x is "don't play these classes." Your 5e solution is "don't play these concepts."
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Aug 6, 2014 18:07
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ProfessorCirno posted:You're kinda missing the problem. 3x is broken for reasons well beyond its class balance
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Aug 6, 2014 18:26
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ProfessorCirno posted:Your 5e solution is "don't play this game." FTFY. I would try 5e, I really would. With my group, we'd probably have a good time because most of us have been playing TTRPGs for more than 10 years. But there's a lot of reasons I'm not excited about it, and this thread updates daily with more reasons why. Hell, I'm almost getting some schadenfreude watching things just get worse and worse with every Mearls tweet, snippet of the PHB and exposure of the shitheads who playtested this mess and their awful opinions that went into (possibly) ruining the entire edition from the get go. What a mess. I still wonder if they could have marketed this edition as D&D Classic and kept 4e as New D&D.
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Aug 6, 2014 18:36
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Lord of Bore posted:Part 2 of the Acts of Geek review is out Well I'm glad the second part went better.
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Aug 6, 2014 18:37
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ProfessorCirno posted:You're kinda missing the problem.
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Aug 6, 2014 18:39
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crime fighting hog posted:FTFY. So to sum up. "I would like play this game that I'd likely have a ton of fun playing, but because of a few random things that make me a little disappointed I am instead going to laugh and hope it burns to the ground" Truly we are the grogs now.
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Aug 6, 2014 18:45
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I know, I know, wait for the modules!
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Aug 6, 2014 18:53
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Also, your DM can fix the parts you dislike!
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Aug 6, 2014 18:55
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crime fighting hog posted:I know, I know, wait for the modules! Or just enjoy the game as is, like you said you probably would, despite its imperfections or play something else? There are a lot of people complaining about a game they've decided not to play. It's weird. Rather than constructive conversation taking place about what DM's *could* do to minimize potential issues for those who want to play, we've got grognardy complaints about how 4e was the pinnacle of D&D and this regressive trash is worse than the worst of 3x, despite being objectively untrue. Don't people mock the hardline 3x fans who never even tried 4e because of something they read on the interweb? You're contributing to the exact same problem with the new edition.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:06
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A good group can have fun playing anything. That doesn't mean they should.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:10
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treeboy posted:So to sum up. "I would like play this game that I'd likely have a ton of fun playing, but because of a few random things that make me a little disappointed I am instead going to laugh and hope it burns to the ground" Fun isn't really a useful discussion point. Any tabletop game is going to be inherently fun when you're bullshitting with your friends while playing it. I've had fun playing Munchkin, but that doesn't make it a well-designed game, or even a game I ever want to play again.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:10
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D&D NEXT: Fun isn't really a useful discussion point
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Aug 6, 2014 19:11
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cbirdsong posted:Fun isn't really a useful discussion point. Any tabletop game is going to be inherently fun when you're bullshitting with your friends while playing it. I've had fun playing Munchkin, but that doesn't make it a well-designed game, or even a game I ever want to play again. The discussion point was more the idea that he's intentionally avoiding something he may well enjoy for the sheer "gently caress you it's not what I wanted" factor. It's exactly what 3x/PF grogs did to 4e. It's still really dumb.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:15
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Nancy_Noxious posted:Also, your DM can fix the parts you dislike! With fire! 
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Aug 6, 2014 19:18
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5e is coming whether we like it or not. So let's maybe get our hands on 5e -- or if you're allergic, let The Other Guys get their hands on 5e -- and see how it runs and get really acquainted with the system before we decide that 5e is The Literal, Actual Devil. Maybe it is The Literal, Actual Devil! But maybe it's not, and if it's not all this posturing is gonna look really silly in retrospect.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:20
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Sade posted:5e is coming whether we like it or not. So let's maybe get our hands on 5e -- or if you're allergic, let The Other Guys get their hands on 5e -- and see how it runs and get really acquainted with the system before we decide that 5e is The Literal, Actual Devil. Maybe it is The Literal, Actual Devil! But maybe it's not, and if it's not all this posturing is gonna look really silly in retrospect. We could shove our fingers in our ears and never pretend it's not the devil.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:24
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treeboy posted:Or just enjoy the game as is, like you said you probably would, despite its imperfections or play something else? There are a lot of people complaining about a game they've decided not to play. It's weird. We might have fun while playing the game, but we wouldn't have fun because of the game we are playing.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:26
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that is hardly unique to any edition of any game, tabletop or otherwise.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:30
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Heads up, everyone: 5e deliberately featuring boring, agency-lite fighters makes 5e less fun. That's the problem. It has unfun features, on purpose.ProfessorCirno posted:You're kinda missing the problem. The thing is that 3.X's answer leaves you playing 3.X, with all the attendant frustration, swinginess, and long term accountancy. There are option-having warrior dudes in 5e's cleric, monk, and maybe sorcerer or something, and while the 5e battlemaster never gets high level maneuvers, their damage never fades into irrelevance, their powers' DCs are actually calibrated against monster saves, and the feats they get are generally more impactful. When 5e swordsages show up in four years or whatever they'll have a basically manageable game to be run in.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:38
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treeboy posted:that is hardly unique to any edition of any game, tabletop or otherwise. Uhm... correct? I can't really tell what you're trying to say here.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:39
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Sade posted:5e is coming whether we like it or not. So let's maybe get our hands on 5e -- or if you're allergic, let The Other Guys get their hands on 5e -- and see how it runs and get really acquainted with the system before we decide that 5e is The Literal, Actual Devil. Maybe it is The Literal, Actual Devil! But maybe it's not, and if it's not all this posturing is gonna look really silly in retrospect. It's not the devil, and it never will be (you can't really call any other system the Devil when systems like FATAL exist). It's just going be a nicer, more refined retread of what was done with 3.5e. To be honest, 3.5e isn't the worst game in existence. It's just that right now a 3.5e-style experience is old hat and there are so many other systems with different experiences that are competing for my time. It's just not worth my time and money to play something similar to what I played 14 years ago. LuiCypher fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 19:48
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Sade posted:Maybe it is The Literal, Actual Devil! Nobody thinks this. If anything, it's the unfortunate child of decades of intellectual incest , and deserves our pity - not contempt.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:49
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