Blood in the Bosphorus: A Byzantium Paradox Mega-Campaign

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NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

But the senate is the house of men of means, education and other qualifications already. I think a lower house of publicly elected officials might actually do some good. Or at least act as a stop-gap solution.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 08:01

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 10:25

Raserys: Aug 22, 2011; IT'S YA BOY

A house for the commons? While I see merit in the concept, I doubt in its ability to be implemented. Besides, we have enough discontents as is in the Discordians, the Senate hardly needs any additional pressure.

However, with the introduction of additional Hui citizens into the Empire, I do see a revision in a certain policy to be forthcoming.

/

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

A "Peasant's War"?! What does this mean, hmm? Only that Unitas has been right since its founding! All this frothing human filth, Lombards, Sicilians, Turks, Pechenegs, and even revolutionaries, they are fighting for one reason: they don't believe they are Romans! It all could have been avoided if we had done one thing, long ago: Romanized them! These peasants don't see themselves as Romans, and do you know why? We never let them! We didn't encourage it, didn't sponsor it, just the opposite, with laws now being enacted by the vile Inclusionists to further solidify the the great walls of separation! We have denied them the privilege of being Roman: is it any wonder they seek to deny us the privilege of ruling them?

And don't whine of the Greek rebels! They have been under the heel of Da Qin for some time now, and what do they find when they are finally home? A Rome without Romans!

The definition of Roman, by your standard, is extremely narrow. To you, a Roman seems to be an Orthodox Greek, am I correct? Yet this was not always the case. Roman once meant something greater than the boundaries of religion and language, Roman was loyalty to the state, to be Roman was not necessarily to speak Latin, but to remain a loyal member of the Empire, whether it be Latin, Greek, Celt, Copt, so on and so on. It is not the fault of integration and promotion of a greater identity than mere ethnic lines that has led to this disaster, it is our misguided wars that have broken our stability, killed our young men by the thousands, and driven us into near-bankruptcy time and time again.

/

# ? Aug 6, 2014 08:02

Samuel: Nov 5, 2011

NewMars posted:

But the senate is the house of men of means, education and other qualifications already. I think a lower house of publicly elected officials might actually do some good. Or at least act as a stop-gap solution.

I agree, a lower forum can be a good way of getting news to us, and getting power to them. But we must only give this to them after grinding them to dust under the wheel of imperial might, ONE DOES NOT REBEL AGAINST OUR GRACIOUS EMPIRE, ONE WITH OVER A THOUSAND YEARS OF TRADITION FOR TAKING CARE OF IT'S PEOPLE. The senator calmly sits down in his seat Now let's get them.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 08:12

MatchaZed: Feb 14, 2010; We Can Do It!

Rincewind posted:

Still, we had three large armies in the field. We were confident that if Da Qin attacked one, we could reinforce it with the other two and win the day.

Oh well, our other two armies should still arrive together and overwhelm the Da Qin, right?

Hm. Well, the first two armies must have softened the Da Qin up so much the third army will prevail, right?

Hahahahahaha. Let the lack of Sinicization be the death of us all. The peasants will rise up and destroy this wretched husk. We have certainly lost the Western Mandate that kept Rome alive for so long.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 09:07

Tevery Best: Oct 11, 2013; Hewlo Furriend

WilliamAnderson posted:

Hahahahahaha. Let the lack of Sinicization be the death of us all. The peasants will rise up and destroy this wretched husk. We have certainly lost the Western Mandate that kept Rome alive for so long.

You realize we won the war in the end, right?

Can anyone tell me what causes the Peasants' War in game terms? I really don't think we've been doing badly enough for poo poo to hit the fan like this (-6 stab what the gently caress?!).

# ? Aug 6, 2014 09:35

Meinberg: Oct 9, 2011; inspired by but legally distinct from CATS (2019)

Tevery Best posted:

You realize we won the war in the end, right?

Can anyone tell me what causes the Peasants' War in game terms? I really don't think we've been doing badly enough for poo poo to hit the fan like this (-6 stab what the gently caress?!).

You get increased revolt risk for the duration, and a number of negative events can pop, further increasing the revolt risk, spawning rebels, costing gold, reducing manpower, amongst other things. It doesn't end until you get stability back up to positive, and trigger an event to end it. Fortunately, it's a once in a runthrough thing, so we won't have to worry about it triggering again.

More details can be found on the wiki.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 09:48

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

The Church will do what it must to help maintain the peace. The Late Empress did not respect it fully; but I trust Empress Theodora will realise that a strong church is only a good thing. The Milvian bill calls for a lower limit to Patriarch authority, but there is no upper limit and I urge Her Majesty to raise it far above that floor. The Empress is dead, long live the Empress!

# ? Aug 6, 2014 10:20

Luhood: Nov 13, 2012

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

A "Peasant's War"?! What does this mean, hmm? Only that Unitas has been right since its founding! All this frothing human filth, Lombards, Sicilians, Turks, Pechenegs, and even revolutionaries, they are fighting for one reason: they don't believe they are Romans! It all could have been avoided if we had done one thing, long ago: Romanized them! These peasants don't see themselves as Romans, and do you know why? We never let them! We didn't encourage it, didn't sponsor it, just the opposite, with laws now being enacted by the vile Inclusionists to further solidify the the great walls of separation! We have denied them the privilege of being Roman: is it any wonder they seek to deny us the privilege of ruling them?

And don't whine of the Greek rebels! They have been under the heel of Da Qin for some time now, and what do they find when they are finally home? A Rome without Romans!

The Inclusionists

Gurgen II Qutuzid

If anything, it is the exact opposite. It is we in the Inclusionists who have made them Roman. Weren't they part of the Empire? Weren't they, just like the Greeks, dying in battle against the Hui who now grace our nation with their presence as well? They were happy, accepted citizen of the Empire. Until you came along.

For all your talk of wanting to unite you certainly do your very best to exclude. Without our vile Inclusionist ideals policies they would've just been nothing but barbarian peasant rabble to you. Heck, even with our policies they are nothing but barbarian peasant rabble to you! The problem with your policies is that it will never be enough. Exclusion will never breed inclusion, only more exclusion. We begin with all being Roman, speaking Greek and somesuch. Then what, because we all know that it won't end there. With a only-Romans-allowed mindset prominent within our people they will continue trying to decide what is and isn't Roman. It begins with language, but what's next? Faith? I mean, we all know how much you love your church don't we? Or possibly even skin-colour? I mean a proper Roman has skin the colour of olives, ancient Romans and Byzantine Romans both, don't they?

No. Your policies, where we put a limitation other than simple loyalty to the crown on what it means to be a Roman, is doomed to spiral out of control. It begins with culture and ends with skin.

The only reason the Peasants rebelled (Other than the fickle fortunes of the RNG) is the extreme economic pressure put on them. Our soldiers needed their taxes for pay. Our soldiers needed their crops for food. Our soldiers needed their sons for manpower. And what did they get in return? No money, no food, and certainly no children to further the family legacy.

sniper4625 posted:

Peasants? In the Senate? Madness! If you had proposed a house of men of means, education, or other qualifications, that would be one thing, but to entrust any part of our government to the uneducated, unwashed rabble? It'd be as though we had let the Discordians win in the first place.

This, people, is the biggest problem in the entire Senate. We look at the peasants and burghers, fellow Romans, and think of them as our inferiors. Do we not all live and die for the Empress and her crown? We think and decide, they act and react, yet we're all part of the Roman system. We're the soul driving the limb, yet without the limb we're nothing. I thought you a man of wisdom Senator Sniper, the one relatively sane voice amongst the Unitas rabble. To think this is the way you view your fellow Romans... you not only abandon your own crazy principles, but you play right into the hands of the Discordians as well.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 10:26

DentedLamp: Aug 2, 2012

God, France is getting massive. And there's no one to stop them.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 10:32

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Meinberg posted:

You get increased revolt risk for the duration, and a number of negative events can pop, further increasing the revolt risk, spawning rebels, costing gold, reducing manpower, amongst other things. It doesn't end until you get stability back up to positive, and trigger an event to end it. Fortunately, it's a once in a runthrough thing, so we won't have to worry about it triggering again.

More details can be found on the wiki.

The payoff details are:

code:

Has government Monarchy.
Manpower percentage is less than 0.25.
Year is less than 1600.
Is not at war.
Any of the following:

    War exhaustion is at least 10.
    Overextension percentage is at least 0.25.
    Legitimacy is less than 75.
    Number of loans is at least 10.

The Peasant War is an event that triggers as a punishment if you've been been playing either suboptimally or if you have overextended attempting to expand. It will never trigger if your manpower is over 25% of the cap, and even if it's below that you need to be screwed up in at least one other way for it to trigger. Most of the time it's overextension or lack of legitimacy that kicks it off.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 10:33

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

Luhood posted:

Gurgen II Qutuzid

This, people, is the biggest problem in the entire Senate. We look at the peasants and burghers, fellow Romans, and think of them as our inferiors. Do we not all live and die for the Empress and her crown? We think and decide, they act and react, yet we're all part of the Roman system. We're the soul driving the limb, yet without the limb we're nothing. I thought you a man of wisdom Senator Sniper, the one relatively sane voice amongst the Unitas rabble. To think this is the way you view your fellow Romans... you not only abandon your own crazy principles, but you play right into the hands of the Discordians as well.

Only a fool would look at the rebelling masses and say "we should give them a place in the senate". Do not misunderstand me - I understand they face a harsh, unforgiving life that often gives them no recourse. But revolt is neither the proper reaction, nor does it give credentials for entry in the senate.

If you care about the peasants, how about supporting the Church? The Church has a humanitarian duty to all of God's children, and it is most effective in carrying out its mission when it is free.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 10:35

AJ_Impy: Jun 17, 2007; SWORD OF SMATTAS. CAN YOU NOT HEAR A WORLD CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE? WHEN WILL YOU DELIVER IT?; Yam Slacker

It is to the Church we must now turn: Increasing the authority of the Patriarch was a significant boon in the war with Da Qin, and continuing to do so will give us a means of returning the peasant rabble to order.

For now, these wayward souls must be brought back into the fold. Failing that, dispatched with haste to the Good Shepherd.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 11:27

Cestrian: Nov 5, 2011

Hahahaha.

This Lets Play is fantastic.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 12:02

TheMcD: May 4, 2013; Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

DentedLamp posted:

God, France is getting massive. And there's no one to stop them.

Yeah, gently caress the Peasants' War. That eventually ends. But that big blue dick is going to be the stuff of nightmares for centuries to come.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 12:28

Luhood: Nov 13, 2012

YF-23 posted:

Only a fool would look at the rebelling masses and say "we should give them a place in the senate". Do not misunderstand me - I understand they face a harsh, unforgiving life that often gives them no recourse. But revolt is neither the proper reaction, nor does it give credentials for entry in the senate.

If you care about the peasants, how about supporting the Church? The Church has a humanitarian duty to all of God's children, and it is most effective in carrying out its mission when it is free.

The Inclusionists

Gurgen II Qutuzid

No it is not, and no it does not. But does that make their problems any less valid? Does that make their opinions and thoughts reprehensible? I'm not saying we should instantly grant Senatorial seats to the Rebels - they did act against the Crown and thus must be dealt with accordingly - but I am saying that perhaps we should listen to their plight?

We Qutuzids have always thought we fought for the people, at first for just the Turks back during the time of Thoros II but soon enough we fought for the equal rights of all of Byzantine Rome's citizen. Would the church do this? Would the church look equally upon and equally grant help to the Orthodox, the Mohammedan, the Jewish, and the Tengri? Or even more important what about the Papists, the Nestorians, and the Coptic? As long as the honest answer to any of these is a no, that the church would not help them without demanding conversion, the church will have to do without my support.

I do hope you agree with me, Senator Whitlock?

# ? Aug 6, 2014 12:32

TheMcD: May 4, 2013; Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Luhood posted:

The Inclusionists

Gurgen II Qutuzid

No it is not, and no it does not. But does that make their problems any less valid? Does that make their opinions and thoughts reprehensible? I'm not saying we should instantly grant Senatorial seats to the Rebels - they did act against the Crown and thus must be dealt with accordingly - but I am saying that perhaps we should listen to their plight?

We Qutuzids have always thought we fought for the people, at first for just the Turks back during the time of Thoros II but soon enough we fought for the equal rights of all of Byzantine Rome's citizen. Would the church do this? Would the church look equally upon and equally grant help to the Orthodox, the Mohammedan, the Jewish, and the Tengri? Or even more important what about the Papists, the Nestorians, and the Coptic? As long as the honest answer to any of these is a no, that the church would not help them without demanding conversion, the church will have to do without my support.

I do hope you agree with me, Senator Whitlock?

Hey, who's the guy that submitted the legislation allowing commoners to be elected theme administrator (I presume the title "doux" should be started to be phased out, now that they're no longer connected by familial ties)? I'm all for a House of Commons. Plus, taking away power from this part of the Senate takes away power from the Discordians. We can still pass legislation, but introducing a second part to the Senate should take away some of their power in blowing up everything.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 12:39

Cestrian: Nov 5, 2011

JT Jag posted:

The payoff details are:
code:
Has government Monarchy.
Manpower percentage is less than 0.25.
Year is less than 1600.
Is not at war.
Any of the following:

    War exhaustion is at least 10.
    Overextension percentage is at least 0.25.
    Legitimacy is less than 75.
    Number of loans is at least 10.
The Peasant War is an event that triggers as a punishment if you've been been playing either suboptimally or if you have overextended attempting to expand. It will never trigger if your manpower is over 25% of the cap, and even if it's below that you need to be screwed up in at least one other way for it to trigger. Most of the time it's overextension or lack of legitimacy that kicks it off.

Yeah, looks like a combination of low manpower and low legitimacy. So basically the peasant don't trust their empress and are tired of the amount of deaths they're suffering. Which is reasonable.

Not entirely sure why Rome's legitimacy dropped from 88 to the 60s between screenshots though.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 13:04

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

To whoever wanted me to make conscription the backbone of the army: this is why you don't do that. Seriously, I was a little on edge on whether to allow it even in extreme cases: I guess we all know the answer now.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 13:19

Ratoslov: Feb 15, 2012; Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

##Join Inclusionists

Hi. Ettore Ratoslovich. New Senator, haven't said much. I hear I have a famous ancestor.

As much as I enjoy the profits from my cannon foundries, I think it's clear we can't keep fighting these peasant revolts like this forever. Either we drag those peasants in here and let them prattle on about ox carts and taxes, or they'll drag us out there and tie our hands to one ox cart and our legs to another. Worse, I've gotta agree that they have some good points there, and the peasant class hasn't gotten much of anything from all these wars but dead sons and wooden legs. So yeah, I support a lower house.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 13:30

Ghetto Prince: Sep 11, 2010; got to be mellow, y'all

Collegium Cardinalium
Saint John's Tower
Holy Rome

Most Reverend Fathers; Your Excellencies.
I have the honor to profess myself with the most profound respect, your Eminences most obedient and humble servant in Christ.

GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE!

# ? Aug 6, 2014 13:38

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

Luhood posted:

The Inclusionists

Gurgen II Qutuzid

No it is not, and no it does not. But does that make their problems any less valid? Does that make their opinions and thoughts reprehensible? I'm not saying we should instantly grant Senatorial seats to the Rebels - they did act against the Crown and thus must be dealt with accordingly - but I am saying that perhaps we should listen to their plight?

We Qutuzids have always thought we fought for the people, at first for just the Turks back during the time of Thoros II but soon enough we fought for the equal rights of all of Byzantine Rome's citizen. Would the church do this? Would the church look equally upon and equally grant help to the Orthodox, the Mohammedan, the Jewish, and the Tengri? Or even more important what about the Papists, the Nestorians, and the Coptic? As long as the honest answer to any of these is a no, that the church would not help them without demanding conversion, the church will have to do without my support.

I do hope you agree with me, Senator Whitlock?

The Church has a humanitarian duty to all of God's children, regardless of whether they are adherents of the true Church or if they have been led astray from their ignorance. While Orthodox Christianity is, of course, the one true faith, that does not prevent us from showing our love unrequisitely to all regardless of their creed, and indeed it is that Christian faith from which our duty to love our neighbours is borne.

The Church wants to help the people, brother, but to help them it must be free and able to do so.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 13:50

Samuel: Nov 5, 2011

NewMars posted:

To whoever wanted me to make conscription the backbone of the army: this is why you don't do that. Seriously, I was a little on edge on whether to allow it even in extreme cases: I guess we all know the answer now.

Conscription can provide a sense of duty and national pride, but only if we're not getting our asses kicked!!!
We should take a wide curve around the Chinese when going to war for the coming decades until we have superiority of arms back!

# ? Aug 6, 2014 14:05

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

Forget the Chinese, what are we going to do about the French? Seriously, I think they may be nearing the point of becoming literally unstoppable.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 14:13

Samuel: Nov 5, 2011

Plug down a start fort or two in the Italian passes and sit there with a giant army while stealing all the tech we can, I don't think we can really "persuade" the entirety of Europe to gang up on France.
I don't like the idea of having Gauls at our gates a second time, where would we go if we fail a second time?

# ? Aug 6, 2014 14:48

AJ_Impy: Jun 17, 2007; SWORD OF SMATTAS. CAN YOU NOT HEAR A WORLD CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE? WHEN WILL YOU DELIVER IT?; Yam Slacker

Samuel posted:

Plug down a start fort or two in the Italian passes and sit there with a giant army while stealing all the tech we can, I don't think we can really "persuade" the entirety of Europe to gang up on France.
I don't like the idea of having Gauls at our gates a second time, where would we go if we fail a second time?

Gaul.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 14:50

Samuel: Nov 5, 2011

AJ_Impy posted:

Gaul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWVgQYN37yk

# ? Aug 6, 2014 15:11

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

I think there's one major problem with putting in a lower house that has been overlooked thus far: the Empress is so angry at the general populace right now that she may well purge the senate for suggesting it.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 16:16

Luhood: Nov 13, 2012

NewMars posted:

I think there's one major problem with putting in a lower house that has been overlooked thus far: the Empress is so angry at the general populace right now that she may well purge the senate for suggesting it.

You mean the good empress, bless her soul, who fell down in anger during her trying to ride out of Constantinople and thus left the throne for Theodora II? Cause Theodora II haven't shown any signs of anger towards the non-noble populace of Byzantine Rome as far as I've seen at least.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 16:21

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

Sorry, I slightly misread the end of the last update. I suppose we shall have to wait and see, then.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 16:25

Punished Chuck: Dec 27, 2010

To hell with a House of Commons and to hell with the peasants! We have given them everything one could ask for from their government; security, prosperity, freedom of religion, we've accepted all races and cultures, we've even allowed them to elect their douxes, and they repay us with treason and revolt? I will not tell these traitors "no matter how good things are, they will only get better if you simply rebel!" Ask me again, when the rebels are in their graves and time has passed that the revolt is forgotten and the peasants once again members of proper Roman society, and then I may be more amenable to the idea.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 16:41

got some chores tonight: Feb 18, 2012; honk honk whats for lunch...

Let's brutally and insanely oppress the peasants and while we're at it, disband any coalitions in the Senate. :cool:

# ? Aug 6, 2014 17:47

sniper4625: Sep 26, 2009; Loyal to the hEnd

WeaponGradeSadness posted:

To hell with a House of Commons and to hell with the peasants! We have given them everything one could ask for from their government; security, prosperity, freedom of religion, we've accepted all races and cultures, we've even allowed them to elect their douxes, and they repay us with treason and revolt? I will not tell these traitors "no matter how good things are, they will only get better if you simply rebel!" Ask me again, when the rebels are in their graves and time has passed that the revolt is forgotten and the peasants once again members of proper Roman society, and then I may be more amenable to the idea.

Hear hear!

# ? Aug 6, 2014 18:08

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

sniper4625 posted:

Hear hear!

Technically, we have been unable to give them any prosperity or security at all. What with this whole thing being started by severe over-taxation caused by us having no money and a severe shortage of people being alive due to all the fighting. I am a man of the military and a man of honor, but I don't really feel the need to pretend that any situation that resolves in a lot of Roman peasants getting killed by other Romans to be anything but a failure on the part of the administration which I am complicit in.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 18:12

Empress Theonora: Feb 19, 2001; She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.

TheMcD posted:

Yeah, gently caress the Peasants' War. That eventually ends. But that big blue dick is going to be the stuff of nightmares for centuries to come.

Speaking entirely OOC, I have literally no idea what to do about France at this point.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 19:04

BwenGun: Dec 1, 2013

Rincewind posted:

Speaking entirely OOC, I have literally no idea what to do about France at this point.

Form a coalition against them with the aim of having them release states? Convert to Catholicism and get the Pope to bankroll a mercenary army in a Crusade against them? Pray?

# ? Aug 6, 2014 19:07

TheMcD: May 4, 2013; Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Rincewind posted:

Speaking entirely OOC, I have literally no idea what to do about France at this point.

Well, praying to the deity of your choice comes to mind. Alternatively, you could gently caress it over with custom events designed to screw it over and I'm fairly certain most people wouldn't begrudge you for it - we've got enough problems with that big blue dick loving the entirety of Europe in our own games, we don't need it in our LPs as well.

Pretty certain that blob is unstoppable now bar a coalition of the entire god drat world and multiple campaigns explicitly designed to gently caress it over over a few decades.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 19:09

ZearothK: Aug 25, 2008; I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

It is still an AI nation.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 19:13

Tevery Best: Oct 11, 2013; Hewlo Furriend

Stop it with your defeatism, you big babies. They don't even control a third of Napoleon's IRL empire and coalitions eventually brought that one down, right? Clearly we have this in the bag.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 19:14

Chwoka: Jan 27, 2008; I'm Abed, and I never watch TV.

GSD posted:

Too long have we crushed our peasants under the millstone that is our empire. When we demand they work and die for us, for nothing in return, how could they not revolt?

you're right, disband the army entirely. don't even wait for the peasant's war to finish

# ? Aug 6, 2014 19:15

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 7, 2024 10:25

BwenGun: Dec 1, 2013

ZearothK posted:

It is still an AI nation.

Schedule the first multiplayer session. One person plays France, and then another player takes every neighbour or ally of a neighbour to France. What follows is the war of the first coalition, hopefully ending with France cut back to its traditional borders, with the added bonus of actual players adding some spice to the conduct of the war.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 19:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Blood in the Bosphorus: A Byzantium Paradox Mega-Campaign

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