|
I'm blanking on an animal that isn't a herd/pack animal that we've truly domesticated. I also can't think of a domesticated animal that hasn't been heavily altered through selective breeding.
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2014 23:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 06:15 |
|
|
Mauser posted:I'm blanking on an animal that isn't a herd/pack animal that we've truly domesticated. House cats?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:01
|
|
|
There was no domestication process for cats when we started living in cities they just showed up to eat rats and some people started feeding them. E: I mean thats the theory I read I dunno if its scientific consensus
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:05
|
|
|
Majorian posted:House cats? Are house cats really domesticated though? It seems more like a symbiotic relationship- we give them food, they kill pests and we enjoy their company (  ). Cats can live independently of humans as well, most breeds of dog not so much.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:07
|
|
|
Cats can go back and forth between feral and "domesticated" based on their current life situation. And yeah, dogs are a thing we did to wolves, but cats are with us because the way we live is amenable to them. We attract rodents and other vermin, and cats find rodents and other vermin delicious. I mean, that's half the appeal of cats right there- we're very convenient, but we're not necessary, and that they know it is written in every little feline quirk.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:10
|
|
|
Phoon posted:There was no domestication process for cats when we started living in cities they just showed up to eat rats and some people started feeding them. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/28/science/28cnd-cat.html?_r=0 I don't know if it's scientific consensus, but there are cat experts that agree with you. Cats showed up, ate rats, humans went 'hey that's handy' and so the relationship between our species began.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:11
|
|
|
Mauser posted:I'm blanking on an animal that isn't a herd/pack animal that we've truly domesticated. I also can't think of a domesticated animal that hasn't been heavily altered through selective breeding. Are ferrets domesticated?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:17
|
|
|
McDowell posted:This is actually a point Jared Diamond makes in 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' - all the species that are amenable to domestication (without genetic engineering) already have been. Many species can be partially domesticated (elephants, racoons, sheep) but this doesn't become a hereditary trait. Canines are present in every human society and their domestication might be a symbiosis that predates homo-sapiens, much like the use of fire. That wasn't what Diamond said. His claim was that all animals whose domestication was both practical and beneficial to pre-modern people have already been domesticated. For example, elephants weren't domesticated because although trained adults are extremely useful, it takes them like 15 years to grow up, so if you want to raise one you'll go broke feeding a giant baby for over a decade before it becomes a functional work animal. It's much easier to just capture a young adult in the wild and train it, which is what people have historically done. If you really wanted to domesticate elephants and had vast resources and time, you could selectively breed them just like horses and cows, but nobody's ever done this. quote:(elephants, raccoons, sheep) As a man married to a former sheep farmer, I can tell you sheep are 100% domesticated. They're actually the oldest domestic animal aside from dogs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:21
|
|
|
Magres posted:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/28/science/28cnd-cat.html?_r=0 Probably helps that cats are cute.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:22
|
|
|
Corrupt Politician posted:That wasn't what Diamond said. His claim was that all animals whose domestication was both practical and beneficial to pre-modern people have already been domesticated. Thanks for the details, it's been years since I read it. Maybe I'm thinking of goats, not sheep.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:25
|
|
|
Corrupt Politician posted:That wasn't what Diamond said. His claim was that all animals whose domestication was both practical and beneficial to pre-modern people have already been domesticated. also, hello friends, I'm back from jury duty, i got a bunch of reading done and the trial itself was actually mildly interesting despite being a traffic thing (we found him not guilty  ). It's very annoying how CNN plays the same five stories over and over again though
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:28
|
|
|
I always see this chive thing on expensive cars and fit white people. I don't know what it is but it's impossible that I would approve of it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:36
|
|
|
Red pandas should be domesticated asap.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:45
|
|
|
someone domesticate me a tibetan sand fox, tia
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 00:55
|
|
|
paranoid randroid posted:someone domesticate me a tibetan sand fox, tia
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:03
|
|
|
paranoid randroid posted:someone domesticate me a tibetan sand fox, tia I can't decide if these foxes look more skeptical, furtive or blazed    "did u rly"
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:06
|
|
|
I'd take this to the I/P thread, but it might be too much of a derail: In that thread, people were mentioning how they were capitalizing HAMAS because it's an acronym, but I never see anyone capitalize Fatah, even though that's an acronym, too, albeit backwards: ḥarakat at-taḥrīr al-waṭanī al-Filasṭīnī. And it's not common to capitalize other words derived from Semitic acronyms, such as Hadash or Meretz. It always looks jarring to me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:09
|
|
|
Humans domesticate themselves. One of the features of this process is the retention of juvenile traits (neoteny). If Freud was writing 'Civilization and its Discontents' today he would note how much US political discourse sounds like a petulant teenager, a mass stunted emotional development that serves to keep society stable/static ('You're not my dad/God! You can't tell me what to do!')
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:12
|
|
|
McDowell posted:Humans domesticate themselves. One of the features of this process is the retention of juvenile traits (neoteny). If Freud was writing 'Civilization and its Discontents' today he would note how much US political discourse sounds like a petulant teenager, a mass stunted emotional development that serves to keep society stable/static ('You're not my dad/God! You can't tell me what to do!') "Don't you ever second-guess me again! It's all Hamas's fault!" 
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:13
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:I can't decide if these foxes look more skeptical, furtive or blazed What's weird is that they look like Dichen Lachmann, who is also tibetan, and must therefore be a Tibetan sand werefox. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:14
|
|
|
McDowell posted:Thanks for the details, it's been years since I read it. Maybe I'm thinking of goats, not sheep. Its a poo poo argument. Demonstrate "practical" and "beneficial." We don't know whether most domestic animals will be beneficial to humans until after they've undergone domestication. Some behaviors of some animals self-select for this, such as wolves and dogs, while others can be accomplished by selectively breeding increased estrogen/cortisol hormone production into animals. I would have no problem with extinguishing mosquetos or Tsetse flies. E1: McDowell posted:Humans domesticate themselves. Funny enough, the first permanent settlements of humans [homo sapians sapians] coincides with the emergence of domesticated traits in humans (decreased male testosterone, increased estrogen and cortisol production). First permanent structures I've found in literature dates to 70,000~BCE along the Upper Nile. began to emerge during the period when My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Aug 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:18
|
|
|
I can 100% guarantee the domestication of raccoons and bears will be beneficial for mankind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:21
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:I would have no problem with extinguishing mosquetos or Tsetse flies. That would deprive a lot of insect-eating species of a source of food, though.  zoux posted:I can 100% guarantee the domestication of raccoons and bears will be beneficial for mankind. oh yeah
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:26
|
|
|
I think the last thing we want to do is make raccoons smarter and let them live in our homes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:27
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:Demonstrate "practical" and "beneficial." You already gave the example of self-selection for canines. Most other domesticated animals are docile herbivores (sheep, cows, llamas). Pigs are omnivorous but their domestication comes from eating our waste food. Horses are the only domesticated animal that comes to mind that would first be 'broken', but their practical benefits are obvious (Diamond also talks about how linguistic clues suggest the people in the Caucasus were the first to domesticate the horse and proceeded to dominate Europe before recorded history)
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:27
|
|
|
Hedera Helix posted:That would deprive a lot of insect-eating species of a source of food, though. And in exchange, eliminating the primary transmission vector for Malaria, Dengue Fever, and several other tropical diseases which are often fatal to humans. Sorry spiders, I'm sure some other insect will rise to dominance. E: McDowell posted:You already gave the example of self-selection for canines. Most other domesticated animals are docile herbivores (sheep, cows, llamas). Pigs are omnivorous but their domestication comes from eating our waste food. Horses are the only domesticated animal that comes to mind that would first be 'broken', but their practical benefits are obvious (Diamond also talks about how linguistic clues suggest the people in the Caucasus were the first to domesticate the horse and proceeded to dominate Europe before recorded history) With animals like dogs, I'm gonna suggest humans were as much a historical breeding pressure as we are today. Once we had rudimentary tools 70,000 BCE, all bets are off for aggresive small animals aggresive towards us. Also, I prefer to follow genetic evidence rather than linguistic clues. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Aug 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:30
|
|
|
Was renaming Rhodesia Zimbabwe kind of like if the Turks called their post-Ottoman state Hattusa? Or not at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:34
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:Once we had rudimentary tools 70,000 BCE, all bets are off for aggresive small animals aggresive towards us. Also, I prefer to follow genetic evidence rather than linguistic clues. Other apes have rudimentary tools, and our genus harnessed fire, not just our species - so there are alot of different factors in play. As I said, I think domestication of dogs started as a symbiotic relationship - wolf packs who followed hominids (or vice versa, since canines have much better sense of smell)
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:39
|
|
|
McDowell posted:Other apes have rudimentary tools, and our genus harnessed fire, not just our species - so there are alot of different factors in play. As I said, I think domestication of dogs started as a symbiotic relationship - wolf packs who followed hominids (or vice versa, since canines have much better sense of smell) Yet only our species hosed our genus extinct. And again, where you say follow, I say hunt. Following comes after enough failed hunting that the most aggressive hunters are dead. E: I should clarify. Where you say wolves followed humans, I say wolves hunted humans before they followed humans. And by that point, they're dog. Megafauna, such as what? Elephants? Again, its an absolute poo poo argument. For most of human history, "practical" and "beneficial" can be ascribed to getting anything to quit hunting humans, or eating things that are tasty to humans. Humanity has done a shitload of impractical things in its time. E2: McDowell posted:Also we didn't just interbreed the rest of our genus to extinction, it was more like the colonization of the Americas- a mixture of murder and marriage. Ask a Korean, I don't eat dog. It almost sounds as if...we domesticated our genus. And it doesn't fit the context to call it marriage. Marriage is the result of legal custom. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Aug 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:45
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:Yet only our species hosed our genus extinct. And again, where you say follow, I say hunt. Following comes after enough failed hunting that the most aggressive hunters are dead. Why eat dogs when you can eat megafauna? The dogs can help bring one down while doubling as a reserve source of food. Also we didn't just interbreed the rest of our genus to extinction, it was more like the colonization of the Americas- a mixture of murder and marriage.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 01:51
|
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:Red pandas should be domesticated asap. Conversely giant pandas should be exterminated asap. I'm sorry pandas but eating bamboo was a niche that did not need to be filled.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 02:06
|
|
|
We are actually driving all the other great apes into extinction. Edit Responses: My Imaginary GF posted:E: I should clarify. Where you say wolves followed humans, I say wolves hunted humans before they followed humans. And by that point, they're dog. Megafauna, such as what? Elephants? 1) Mammoths come to mind, as well as giant elk, sloths, eagles and a bunch of other mammals that disappeared after the ice age (around the same time our species was definitely on every continent) 2) You might not eat dog because there are other meat/protein options and your culture has more empathy for the neoteny traits of dogs. But if you were a survivalist after SHTF you might change your mind about Fido. 'Marriage' was being euphemistic - 'mating' works too and preserves my mnemonic! Mc Do Well fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Aug 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 02:07
|
|
|
Guess they're not that great after all 
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 02:13
|
|
|
Why has nobody thought of "GenoCider" - "Not Hard! Stomach-Cleansingly Brutal!!"?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 02:14
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:I can't decide if these foxes look more skeptical, furtive or blazed I need this animal silently judging me in my house.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 02:31
|
|
|
Magres posted:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/28/science/28cnd-cat.html?_r=0 But as that article says, house cats are domesticated - possibly by their own doing, but the point still stands. You can have a cat that's not domesticated but has a symbiotic relationship with you (ie: you feed it, it kills mice), but there's a difference between that and a house cat. The former example is a farm/barn cat - it's often semi- or fully feral, so it's not going to cozy up to you like a pet. Majorian fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Aug 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 02:36
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:I need this animal silently judging me in my house. It's the face I imagine a spirit animal would make if they walked in on you masturbating.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 02:36
|
|
|
Corrupt Politician posted:If you really wanted to domesticate elephants and had vast resources and time, you could selectively breed them just like horses and cows, but nobody's ever done this. Somewhere, Newt Gingrich just got an erection and doesn't know why.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 03:02
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:Conversely giant pandas should be exterminated asap. They're p useless
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 03:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 06:15 |
|
|
Giant pandas are great zoo animals because they can't be meaningfully said to suffer in captivity, unlike most other, smarter, animals.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2014 03:19
|
|