AJ_Impy posted:

gently caress France.

Grizzwold posted:

I think this is something we can all get behind, no matter what our voting tendencies.

AJ_Impy posted:

The problem here is all our provinces are Orthodox. If we switch, then France is going to get a lot bigger at our expense.

GoatLord posted:

That +10% Missionary strength has to count for something.

GSD posted:

Too long have we been chained by that tyrant in gold, the Ecumenical Patriarch!
We must free our empire and our righteous Empress from that cancer that rots us from within, the old and reactionary Church of despots and liars! Priests exist only to lead the Faithful astray, making them pray to dead emperors and generals, saying they represent God!

We must return the faith to its purest form, a faith of and by the Faithful! No patriarchs, only men before God!

GoatLord posted:

That +10% Missionary strength has to count for something.

HiHo ChiRho posted:

It will account for Jack and poo poo when Kiev, France, the Papal States and the entire Middle East and Europe decide OH HEY FREE HEATHEN COUNTRY from Sicily to Georgia since we spend the rest of the game burning heretics in our country (which wouldn't BE an empire anymore since we now hate heirarchy from Church and State)

Talky posted:

Exactly! That looks to be happening if we go Bolgomist AND if we stay Orthodox in the face of the French Wave. However, If we go Sunni as we should have centuries ago, suddenly we are coreligionists with all the entire Middle East and the surviving Frontier successor states.

tatankatonk posted:

Can anyone vote? If they can, I'm ##voting B

HiHo ChiRho posted:

It will account for Jack and poo poo when Kiev, France, the Papal States and the entire Middle East and Europe decide OH HEY FREE HEATHEN COUNTRY from Sicily to Georgia since we spend the rest of the game burning heretics in our country (which wouldn't BE an empire anymore since we now hate heirarchy from Church and State)

Clayren posted:

The French have substituted a King for a Patriarch and they claim this is revolutionary. As if the body of the church had been free of the corruption of politics prior! What the French have is nothing new, it hardly deserves to be considered different from the old Orthodox faith. The French cling to the traditions of the ages as much as the foolish Senators who backed Komitas Branas did. For how many decades has this senate, this body sought to "restore" the past? Recreate Rome, restore the Pentarchy, mend the schism, rebuild the legion, restore the throne to the Komnenos dynasty. All these grand plans to relive a golden age we only half remember, enough silver and blood to fill the Hagia Sophia ten times over and what of any lasting worth do we have to show for it? Western Europe in the hands of a king turned high priest, most of the holy places of Christendom in the hands of Muslims, the city of Rome in the hands of a high priest turned king and an army held together by a string.

I opposed the vote to Sinicize because I believed that Rome could find the path to greatness without abandoning the traditions that made it great. I still believe that, but I also believe in something greater than the traditions of Rome. I believe in the Georgians. I believe in the Turks. I believe in the Sicilians and the Italians, the Greeks and Pechenegs, the Bulgarians and the Serbs. I believe in the ROMANS, a people not wholly defined by the disparate traditions of their cultures but by the principles they share. Equal justice regardless of faith or race, a yearning for knowledge, a grand leader who does not dole out positions and privileges to friends and supporters but instead invests these powers in men and women of proven quality. This is what makes our Rome great, not some old interpretation of God's word. I beg of you, trust in the Roman people and let them make their own interpretations.

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

The Orthodox Church is Rome's Church, the Church of Constantine, of Justinian, of Basil the Bulgar-Slayer, of Alexios Komnenos, of St. Valeria, of all the Apostles, of Jesus Christ!

Clayren posted:

Ah yes, I too recall that part of the Holy Book where Jesus personally declared the Patriarch in Byzantium to be the head of his religion. Some senators might be forgiven for their lack of understanding of the Holy Bible, reading is such a chore after all and why waste an good evening that might be spent drinking and snoozing in the sun with matters of faith? Do not worry though, I doubt your beloved patriarch is much more knowledgeable of the matters of the spirit himself, who has the time to talk to God when there are peasants to be taxed?

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

Oh? Did you miss the part where he told his disciples to go and make fellow disciples of all the nations? Goes against that whole "toleration" argument. Did you miss Acts, and the Epistles, that saw the establishment of the Church? The one that has by and large become the Orthodox Church? Of course you did. You would rather bastardize our faith, see it distorted by eastern heathenry, see it turned into the foulest mockery!

You would see our state oppress the majority of its citizens, burn the loyal at the stake! You would rape the Bride of God for, what, exactly? To suck eastern cock? To appease a few bands of radicals?

GunnerJ posted:

Hahaha OK, even though this fucks over "my faction," it is too cool an option to pass up, ##Vote B

Otherwise, pleased to see that right on the tails of the success of popular power against absolute monarchy, freethinkers start talking about republicanism. Noble Republics aren't exactly what I'm looking for, but it's a step in the right direction: the direction that leads to SPQR being more than just a slogan.

Vivant Republica Secundas!

HiHo ChiRho posted:

You are voting for a religion that actively seeks to destroy all minority faiths, as opposed to one that merely purged heretic beliefs over heathen ones.

So Republican.

quote:

Anyway, thanks to this diversity of practices, Bogomilism was a syncretic blend of numerous Christian heresies and minority practices pushed into the margins by an increasingly authoritarian Orthodox church and religious thought from non-Christian faiths.

Rincewind posted:

Yeah, anyone can vote! You don't need to have joined a party or participated in Senate sessions or whenever. I can't really blame people for just skimming over Senate sessions at this point.

GunnerJ posted:

Yes I am a "Republican" that is on my character sheet next to "Class: ", but maybe I need to level up a bit.

On the other hand, religious tolerance and radical republicanism do not always go hand in hand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dechristianisation_of_France_during_the_French_Revolution

Also p. sure you're not understanding the description of this religion?

HiHo ChiRho posted:

So the next post after "Vivant Republica Secundas!" you try to deny it?

I mean yeah Orthodox isn't heretic friendly by any means, but the main difference between Bogolism and Orthodox is that Orthodox doesn't recognize the primacy of the Roman Archbishop and B. doesn't recognize anything from a church heirarchy.

GunnerJ posted:

Let me clear this up: I'm not "a Republican" as if that were some aspect of a character I'm roleplaying. I'm a reader interested in seeing a Second Roman Republic form along good Enlightenment lines because I think it'd be cool. "Because I think it'd be cool" is also my reason for ##joining Discordians. It's the motive behind every decision I make in participating in the thread. Pretty sure that's the case for most participants actually, but they also think it's fun to dress it up in historical roleplaying, and hey, whatever makes you happy. Ending a post with a Google-translated Latin phrase in lighthearted enthusiasm is as close as I come to that, though.

So, I don't know why you're telling me about the differences between Orthodoxy and Bogomilism, I am not making this decision as a fictional ideologue in this alternate history narrative. Again, I am making this decision as an audience member who thinks this would be an interesting outcome. I even acknowledged that this would mechanically disadvantage "my party," and thus potentially set back the timetable of republican revolution in Rome!

GunnerJ posted:

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

I would like to address those advocating for our conversion to Islam: why rock the boat? It is clear that you cannot win this vote. Sad, but true, for you. So, why not do what is best for your electorate, for your Muslim brothers? Think about it: what are these Bogomilists? What do they want, how will they get it? What does this have to do with Muslims?

Bogomilists are an insane fringe movement, seeking to dismantle the Orthodox Church and forcibly convert all its adherents. Their rule would begin one of the most horrifying persecutions seen since Nero himself. And if they get free reign with all the Orthodox, do you think they will really stop? That they will honor the "corrupt" arrangements of the old Church? I think not. I think once they finish butchering us, they will come for you. And who will be there to protect you?

Another thing we must all consider is this: Bogomilists are not Christians. Their so-called faith is dualistic, revering two Powers. This makes them pagans. Muslims, will you be ruled by pagans? By people who are not even of the Book? Christians, will you allow these archaic Persian throwbacks to assume power? Will you dig up the corpse of Xerxes and proclaim him Emperor, watch as every city in the empire burns in his name?

Please, we must do what is best for our people. These radicals are just that, and they can be stopped, overcame! And our Empire will emerge from this time of crisis whole, faithful, and beautiful.

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

I would like to address those advocating for our conversion to Islam: why rock the boat? It is clear that you cannot win this vote. Sad, but true, for you. So, why not do what is best for your electorate, for your Muslim brothers? Think about it: what are these Bogomilists? What do they want, how will they get it? What does this have to do with Muslims?

Bogomilists are an insane fringe movement, seeking to dismantle the Orthodox Church and forcibly convert all its adherents. Their rule would begin one of the most horrifying persecutions seen since Nero himself. And if they get free reign with all the Orthodox, do you think they will really stop? That they will honor the "corrupt" arrangements of the old Church? I think not. I think once they finish butchering us, they will come for you. And who will be there to protect you?

Another thing we must all consider is this: Bogomilists are not Christians. Their so-called faith is dualistic, revering two Powers. This makes them pagans. Muslims, will you be ruled by pagans? By people who are not even of the Book? Christians, will you allow these archaic Persian throwbacks to assume power? Will you dig up the corpse of Xerxes and proclaim him Emperor, watch as every city in the empire burns in his name?

Please, we must do what is best for our people. These radicals are just that, and they can be stopped, overcame! And our Empire will emerge from this time of crisis whole, faithful, and beautiful.