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Defiance Industries posted:Looks like Black Bolt has been shame-eating to deal with the guilt.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:21
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The real reason the dude never talks is because he's constantly eating, not some fancy voice power. But yeah, the art really didn't work for me, I hope that guy doesn't fill in on more issues. They're all acting like a bunch of pissy drama Kings for guys who just blew up a world. My favorite part was probably Strange as he seems to be the only one to have a sensible grasp of how and why they got there in the first place. Namor too I guess but his whole rear end in a top hat fish king schtick tends to get whatever he says buried under the smugness.
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Aug 6, 2014 20:58
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I loving love how much of an absolute rear end in a top hat Namor is.
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Aug 6, 2014 21:03
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Deadpool posted:I loving love how much of an absolute rear end in a top hat Namor is. He just proved once again how much more noble he is then all these other guys. He's at maximum Namor.
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Aug 6, 2014 21:10
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Deadpool posted:I loving love how much of an absolute rear end in a top hat Namor is. Don't forget that he's also 100% correct.
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Aug 6, 2014 22:06
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Also, T'Challa's argument makes no sense at all. He didn't choose for everyone to not use that bomb, he chose for himself to not do it. gently caress, that sociopathic series is turning us into monsters. As an aside, I'm rereading Hickman's FF and in retrospect, the difference between the Reeds and the Illuminati isn't very obvious.
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Aug 6, 2014 22:07
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Don't forget that he's also 100% correct. I was talking more about the whole reveal about getting Wakanda destroyed again. All I know is that I want a Hickman written Namor ongoing.
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Aug 6, 2014 22:08
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Namor confessing about Wakanda feels a lot like when in Breaking Bad Walt tells Jesse about how he let his girlfriend die as Jesse is being taken away by the Nazis. Namor is deliberately throwing away any possibility of being a hero so he can do what needs to be done, like Magneto in his series.
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Aug 6, 2014 22:18
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WickedHate posted:Namor is deliberately throwing away any possibility of being a hero so he can do what needs to be done, like Magneto in his series. I really want them to kill him by the end of this. It's not a big deal, someone will bring him back, but he's hosed over way too many people way too hard not to get his poo poo wrecked. It's time for a time out death.
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Aug 6, 2014 23:50
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Black Panther did let Wakanda kill a whole bunch of Namor's people, so he's no saint. I really don't like T'Challa at all.
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Aug 7, 2014 00:11
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Codependent Poster posted:Black Panther did let Wakanda kill a whole bunch of Namor's people, so he's no saint. I really don't like T'Challa at all. Yeah at this point Strange and Namor are the only ones coping to what they have become and T'Challa is just being all, "You murdered my people after I let my people murder your people! GRRRRRR I'M ANGRY WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS!"
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Aug 7, 2014 00:23
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At least they still have Reed as the pillar of morality in the team!
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Aug 7, 2014 00:25
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Codependent Poster posted:Black Panther did let Wakanda kill a whole bunch of Namor's people, so he's no saint. I really don't like T'Challa at all. None of them are good guys, they are all horrific gently caress ups with *multiple* insane acts of hubris that nearly tore reality asunder to their name, and in a perfect world they'd pretty much all die or end up in jail, but there's only so far you can stretch the status quo. Realistically, Namor is the most disposable of the lot of them except for maybe Beast. He also has the most to answer for. As an added bonus they've talked a lot about the duties and greatness of kings, but every single king on that team is terrible at their job. They clearly have an extra helping of the humility take-down coming to all the Illuminati. Also Namor just gave an "I'm glad I killed all those innocent people in your nation" speech, so he's really angling for it the most.
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Aug 7, 2014 02:19
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Deadpool posted:I loving love how much of an absolute rear end in a top hat Namor is. You know what makes this so much better? It's being released at the same time as Original Sin and its tie-ins. There are all these stories where long-buried skeletons are being let out of the closet and yet Namor's big secret comes straight from the seahorse's mouth. Because gently caress y'all, he's Namor.
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Aug 7, 2014 02:58
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Codependent Poster posted:Black Panther did let Wakanda kill a whole bunch of Namor's people, so he's no saint. I really don't like T'Challa at all. Except he tried to argue for peace and got shut down by pretty much everyone in wakanda. He's not the king anymore so he couldn't do much. That's a far cry from namor drowning a city and then lying about where the infinity gems were in order to sic thano's goons on wakanda. Let's not forget who started the war in the first place. gently caress namor wishes that more wakandian civilians died. I love namor but he's a gigantic rear end in a top hat who deserves to get his poo poo wrecked.
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Aug 7, 2014 04:29
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im not even sure where the namor hating wakanda/tchalla came from? like i get that he attacked wakanda because of the whole avx thing and being pheonix or whatever but otherwise? Is their some history there that im unaware of
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Aug 7, 2014 05:32
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After that Wakanda went and genocided the Atlanteans so where before it was all shits and giggles, now Namor's sad.
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Aug 7, 2014 05:53
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SynthOrange posted:After that Wakanda went and genocided the Atlanteans so where before it was all shits and giggles, now Namor's sad. so it's like "You sent cosmic villains to destroy my city and people!" "Your country destroyed my city and people!" "You tsunami'd my whole country!!" "heheh yeah, those were fun times. Colossus made whales with loving crab legs, you know?"
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Aug 7, 2014 05:57
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Namor attacked Wakanda under the influence of the Phoenix after they injured some X-Men when the Avengers kidnapped Hope. Then the Wakandans massacred the Atlanteans in retaliation. Then Namor sent the Black Order to Wakanda in revenge.
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Aug 7, 2014 05:58
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i knew all that i was just wondering if there was anything before that.
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Aug 7, 2014 06:06
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Man I hate these thinly veiled middle-east allegories.
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Aug 7, 2014 06:06
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I try to tell myself it's more a general endless war archetype than specifically a dumb middle-east analogy. It doesn't always work though.
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Aug 7, 2014 07:55
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One of the War Council members even said it. Blood begets blood Namor also mentions that there's many people who wouldn't mind overthrowing Shuri and leading a war effort against a hated enemy is a good way to get those people off her back.
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Aug 7, 2014 13:46
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jsoh posted:im not even sure where the namor hating wakanda/tchalla came from? like i get that he attacked wakanda because of the whole avx thing and being pheonix or whatever but otherwise? Is their some history there that im unaware of Namor and Black Panther have a long history of fighting each other. I'm pretty sure the first instance of Wakanda and Atlantis (nearly) having a war is from the Defenders from the 70s. I haven't read those issues, but it wouldn't surprise me if most of the Namor/Black Panther feuding is because of Priest's Black Panther. Priest used Namor as a contrast to Black Panther, as they are both king who will do whatever they can to protect their people, but they go about it in completely different ways.
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Aug 7, 2014 13:58
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Dr.Magnificent posted:Namor and Black Panther have a long history of fighting each other. I'm pretty sure the first instance of Wakanda and Atlantis (nearly) having a war is from the Defenders from the 70s. I haven't read those issues, but it wouldn't surprise me if most of the Namor/Black Panther feuding is because of Priest's Black Panther. Priest used Namor as a contrast to Black Panther, as they are both king who will do whatever they can to protect their people, but they go about it in completely different ways. Which by the way for anyone wondering Priest's Black Panther run is a must read. I think the best the character has had outside of Hickman. Find it.
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Aug 7, 2014 15:26
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I liked how the entire issue took place in about 5 square meters.
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Aug 7, 2014 15:30
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Aphrodite posted:I liked how the entire issue took place in about 5 square meters. They blew their budget on the special effects in the last two issues.
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Aug 7, 2014 15:58
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:At least they still have Reed as the pillar of morality in the team! Everytime Reed opened his mouth I wanted to strangle him. Which I'm not even sure is possible.
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Aug 7, 2014 17:02
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coconono posted:Everytime Reed opened his mouth I wanted to strangle him. Which I'm not even sure is possible.
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Aug 7, 2014 17:15
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I wonder if any of Namor's comments stem from self loathing. He had to take action cause I get the guy has some nobility but he often has to sacrifice it for greater causes. The other thing is Namor pointing Thanos to Wakanda...I kinda see some wisdom that decision even if not heroic. Atlantis is a wreck but what else was he going to do? Tell them to go to New York? Wakanda is unconquerable and stands the best chance of holding Thanos and his Generals or driving them back. Smarter to point him there than elsewhere.
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Aug 7, 2014 17:26
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Is there any way we can get a collection together to pay a good artist to redraw that issue of New Avengers. I know that people do alternate covers, but there seriously needs to be alternate interiors as well. That whole issue was completely ruined by the loving awful art.
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Aug 7, 2014 18:46
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I'd put 4 bucks in a Kickstarter to do that.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:22
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It's weird because I remember liking Walker's art when he was on Thunderbolts, maybe he was in a rush or something? Anyway there's only one more New Avengers issue with Walker on art before Deodato comes back for Time Runs Out.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:35
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PelvicNerve posted:I'd put 4 bucks in a Kickstarter to do that. I'd pledge at least $250 if we could get the whole NA run, redraw by Epting. That guy does such a nice job of shadowing. The darkness of the panels was so good for the theme of this book. I miss that. Starsnostars posted:It's weird because I remember liking Walker's art when he was on Thunderbolts, maybe he was in a rush or something? Anyway there's only one more New Avengers issue with Walker on art before Deodato comes back for Time Runs Out. I think it's just a tone thing. I liked his Thunderbolts work too but here it just felt off. I'm excited to see Deodato back, I know a lot of people here don't like him but I love his work.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:42
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Gatts posted:I wonder if any of Namor's comments stem from self loathing. Let me give you the spoilers: 90% of Namor stories are driven by his self-loathing, with 9% being him buying his own hype, and the remaining 1% being his comeuppance that leads to the 90% of self-loathing again. There is a reason the dude who constantly bitches about how he's a king and his responsibilities and blah blah blah blah is also constantly running around with some super-team or another. He doesn't belong anywhere. He's not really an Atlantean, and he certainly doesn't fit on the surface very well. The Invaders, the Defenders, the X-Men....and I did say super-team, not superhero. He'll also just join up with a Doctor Doom or a Magneto or a Green Goblin. He's a man constantly looking for a place to belong who invariably fucks it up and runs off. All that king poo poo is his way of justifying why he doesn't fit anywhere. King are different, they have to be apart from people, blah blah blah. Well as you can see, even in a group of kings he's still alone. So rather than cry about it he'll own it, and he will burn that connection to the loving ground. Dude is like over a hundred at this point and he still acts like a giant child.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:46
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PaybackJack posted:I'd pledge at least $250 if we could get the whole NA run, redraw by Epting. That guy does such a nice job of shadowing. The darkness of the panels was so good for the theme of this book. I miss that. I'd love to have Epting redraw the non-Deodato issues though. After his Cap and Secret Avengers issues, I feel Butch Guice could be a great contender as well. Tangentially, I think Sorrentino isn't DC exclusive after his last Green Arrow issue and he could definitely fit the bill too. He's pretty much my favorite DC artist right now.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:56
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Starsnostars posted:It's weird because I remember liking Walker's art when he was on Thunderbolts, maybe he was in a rush or something? Anyway there's only one more New Avengers issue with Walker on art before Deodato comes back for Time Runs Out. This is the price to pay for increasing the shipping of books and getting as many artists to go as quick as possible to keep up with it.
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Aug 7, 2014 20:45
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It's too bad, because while the art isn't bad per se, this really wasn't the issue to make the change in. So much built up dramatic tension was released, and it didn't serve the story well in this particular case.
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Aug 7, 2014 20:54
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Codependent Poster posted:Namor attacked Wakanda under the influence of the Phoenix after they injured some X-Men when the Avengers kidnapped Hope. Then the Wakandans massacred the Atlanteans in retaliation. Then Namor sent the Black Order to Wakanda in revenge. I'm getting two things about of the latest NA issue (I just finally read the last two issues after cleaning out my file, and HOLY CRAP!). First, Namor is acting like a leader of his people and doing what it takes to save them. Atlantis was driven under water, pushed around and nearly destroyed by humans, Wakanda, Deviants, Inhumans, what have you. When it comes down to it, Namor has done everything he can to save his people, including straight up murdering people, pre-emptive strikes, everything in the book. Pointing a giant gun at another planet and blowing it up isn't an act of a villain, nor of a hero. It's the act of a leader of people. If you're Harry Truman and the only way to stop a war is to drop a nuke or two on Japanese civilians, you'd think hard about the decision, but you'd drop the nukes because it saves your country and it prevents more deaths. Second, Namor's admission in the latest issue is a lot like the second Christian Bale Batman movie. Batman says the city needs someone to hate, let it be him and save the white knight of Harvey Dent for the city to rally around. Humans already don't like Namor much, so Namor says, "so be it". I'm the one who blew up the Earth and saved everyone. I'm the bad guy. That leaves the rest of the "good guys" to figure out what to do next and stay good guys. If they need someone to pull the trigger again, then let Namor do it.
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Aug 17, 2014 04:19
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Psychlone posted:I'm getting two things about of the latest NA issue (I just finally read the last two issues after cleaning out my file, and HOLY CRAP!). First, Namor is acting like a leader of his people and doing what it takes to save them. Atlantis was driven under water, pushed around and nearly destroyed by humans, Wakanda, Deviants, Inhumans, what have you. When it comes down to it, Namor has done everything he can to save his people, including straight up murdering people, pre-emptive strikes, everything in the book. Pointing a giant gun at another planet and blowing it up isn't an act of a villain, nor of a hero. It's the act of a leader of people. If you're Harry Truman and the only way to stop a war is to drop a nuke or two on Japanese civilians, you'd think hard about the decision, but you'd drop the nukes because it saves your country and it prevents more deaths. I do think its the most badass thing Namor has ever done. The rest of the Illuminai made the tool to do it. Namor couldn't make a swiss army knife. All of them knew it might come to this. The rest of them didn't have the guts to do that. Which I suppose paints them as more heroic. Namor took all the blame. Which I am guessing in why he was there in the first place. I really have'nt seen a good OMG moment like that in comics since the 70s.
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Aug 17, 2014 14:02
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