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RyuujinBlueZ posted:She can certainly make threats and throw around her weight and power as Avatar, and her entire story seems to me to have been a series of authority figures loving her over. That leads pretty well to her getting fed up and deciding that she's the Avatar, and the world can just deal with it and her. That doesn't mean she's going to go around killing people who disagree with her, but I doubt it'd take much more than some Avatar Stated yelling to convince anybody opposed to her that maybe they should sit down and listen. And, as Crosspeice noted, she's probably got most of the world on her side anyway. She's only really going to have to yell down the President/residents of Republic City and then she'll be free to bounce around the world checking up on people and making sure poo poo stays peaceful. Well, from an out of character perspective, I really doubt the writers are going to adopt a hugely pro-American "you have power and thus you are totally justified to be the World's policeman and threaten them into agreeing with you" moral. it seems drastically out of line with their ideals and politics. Even the previous Avatars who have killed people have killed people who actively threatened the safety of others in extreme ways. From an in-character perspective, it's really hard to imagine Korra getting glowy-Avatar on her father or Tenzin at all, or at the president of Republic City without looking like a bully. They intentionally showed her messing up and making a legitimate and damaging mistake at the start of the season when he kicked her out of the city and it would look extremely weird if she got back in by threatening him and going "ignore the fact that I destroyed a building, I'm the Avatar and you're going to listen to me." Zaheer's plan involves the complete dissolution of leadership. He actively says he doesn't believe in the idea of monarchy, for example, and we saw him planning to assassinate the democratically elected leader of Republic City. He doesn't just want freedom, he wants the destruction of governments. Even if you dropped the regicide, the elimination of elected leadership enforced by a demigod doesn't really sound like a good thing unless you're extreme libertarian. I do think Korra is going to change by the end of the season but I don't think it will by adopting even a toned-down version of Zaheer's ideals. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 23:51
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ImpAtom posted:Zaheer's plan involves the complete dissolution of leadership. He actively says he doesn't believe in the idea of monarchy, for example, and we saw him planning to assassinate the democratically elected leader of Republic City. He doesn't just want freedom, he wants the destruction of governments. Even if you dropped the regicide, the elimination of elected leadership enforced by a demigod doesn't really sound like a good thing unless you're extreme libertarian.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:00
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ImpAtom posted:Well, from an out of character perspective, I really doubt the writers are going to adopt a hugely pro-American "you have power and thus you are totally justified to be the World's policeman and threaten them into agreeing with you" moral. it seems drastically out of line with their ideals and politics. Even the previous Avatars who have killed people have killed people who actively threatened the safety of others in extreme ways. Yeah, I do agree with your meta-reasoning. It would be a weird message to send, though to be honest the Avatar is sort of a weird message to begin with as it isn't terribly far off from that idea at base. They just spin it more positively as "if you have power you should use it responsibly to help the world". I very much doubt Korra would, or would even have to, get all glowy at her dad or Tenzin and I specifically noted she'd probably only have to do so at the President of Republic City. As for her doing so, I can actually see it being in her character. Once everything is said and done, either this season or the next, I could see her marching in to Republic City and forcing them to work out plans to deal with the spirits and accept things the way they are. That said, the story's kind of moved away from all that so I'm not sure they'll even bother going back to it. It'd be sort of a weird ending to the season to suddenly go back to somewhere that's had almost zero impact on everything else. What other end-game is there for any plan of Zaheer's that involves the Avatar but a peace enforced by the power of the Avatar? I get the line of his plan, with the murder and everything, but unless he was planning to literally stab Korra in the back once it was done I can't imagine any long-term result other than having her police the world as some kind of glowy nuclear deterrent. I'm also not (trying) to back his plan or even say this is the way the story should go. All I was trying to say was that I can see Korra taking to heart some portion of Zaheer's ideology and breaking overt ties with the world's governments and establishing herself as a new and neutral force. A super-powered United Nations made up of one girl might be a better way to look at it. Edit: She's always been pretty anti-authority to begin with. It doesn't feel like a stretch for her to go "yeah, he was evil as poo poo, but Zaheer was right about rulers being assholes" and going her own way. Hell, that's more or less what she did with her uncle. "Yeah, he was evil as poo poo, but he was right about opening the spirit portals."
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Aug 8, 2014 00:03
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The thing is that, from what we've heard, Zaheer's plan is the dissolution of leaders. Peace isn't in his stated goals. If chaos comes from it, he seems to believe that is entirely natural. The Avatar certainly seems like she would have been his big stick for this but I really don't think his eventual endpoint is peace, just freedom.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:06
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Bongo Bill posted:Apart from the leaked episode, does anybody else have the misfortune to remember the live-action movie? Somebody linked me to this post with some new details about how that clusterfuck happened. Surprisingly, the director may not have been to blame! That's actually some interesting insight and makes sense with the details given. (There had to be some reason the creators greenlit the whole thing so it was either good, or they were bribed, or they were forced to accept.) Insight into casting also really shows how big a clusterfuck it truly was because of the players involved.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:09
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I feel like I want to argue that point, but I'm also pretty sure you're right. I guess it would be more of a freedom enforced by the Avatar, which wouldn't exactly be much of a freedom at all. I don't know if he was just willing to accept those terms, or if he planned to kill Korra after she'd gotten him what he wanted, or what. We'll probably never know. Either way, my point stands. I think she's going to take from Zaheer a "gently caress leadership" stance, especially since this season especially has been a showcase of leaders loving up. Even Su Yin had a traitor at her right hand without realizing it. I doubt she'll take it as far as murder, but I can see her yelling at a lot of people who don't agree with her. Probably starting with Lin.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:12
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Nah, independent of any creative choices made the actual DIRECTION was loving laughably bad, so even if someone stood Shyamalan in front of a rubbish looking house it's still him who took a big runny poo poo on the doorstep. Don't forget that this is the guy who publicly announced he was changing how the names were pronounced.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:13
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The problem is that 'leaders' are part of the natural order. Any kind of pack animal is going to have a leader, pretty much. The same goes for humans; any time you get a group of them together, one of them is inevitably going to wind up making most of the decisions. So unless Zaheer intends to use Korra as a boot to stamp out leaders wherever they appear-- essentially enforcing a continued state of chaos-- then annihilating all the world's leaders will just result in new ones rising to take their place.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:27
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PriorMarcus posted:Don't forget that this is the guy who publicly announced he was changing how the names were pronounced.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:28
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Bongo Bill posted:Apart from the leaked episode, does anybody else have the misfortune to remember the live-action movie? Somebody linked me to this post with some new details about how that clusterfuck happened. Surprisingly, the director may not have been to blame! I forgot Shamalyan was a Pennsylvania guy. Knowing he shot it in Reading almost makes me want to watch it. Almost.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:41
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Regardless of the geopolitical poo poo that Korra, a teenager, must now deal with potentially, Bosco is at peace.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:42
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don't worry they're gunna make some twist with zahar that makes him completely evil/takes away any complexity. i can already sense this final part unraveling. pacing was a mess in episode 10, and how things fit together on korras end were just plain stupid and way too convenient. 
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Aug 8, 2014 00:49
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Irish Joe posted:I forgot Shamalyan was a Pennsylvania guy. Knowing he shot it in Reading almost makes me want to watch it. Almost. That movie is so bad that, for several months after seeing it, I forgot that movies could be good.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:53
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Bongo Bill posted:That movie is so bad that, for several months after seeing it, I forgot that movies could be good. The Rifftrax for it makes it pretty entertaining, at least.
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Aug 8, 2014 01:00
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Yeah I'd still say that the majority of the problems with the film still lie with Shyamalan. The fact is, Shyamalan is a loving terrible writer. A huge chunk of dialogue that he churns out is pure poo poo, largely because he can't tell the difference between narrative and dialogue. His style of directing is also dull, and honestly kinda archaic. Also, IIRC Sifu Kisu couldn't convince Shyamalan that the choreography and the martial arts training needed to be done properly, so Shyamalan just said gently caress it and went with a stunt coordinator instead. In truth my biggest pet peeve is that all the authentic cultural and historical references were stripped from the film. Maybe the producers had a hand in that, maybe they didn't. But if so, I really hope the producers don't sleep well at night.
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Aug 8, 2014 01:57
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The Last Airbender movie is the only source of american media that has pronounced the word "avatar" correctly, as far as I have seen. Gotta give them that.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:06
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Ravane posted:The Last Airbender movie is the only source of american media that has pronounced the word "avatar" correctly, as far as I have seen. Gotta give them that. And they pronounced everything else incorrectly because they thought that pronouncing Chinese words using Japanese phonetics was more "authentic."
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Aug 8, 2014 02:08
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ShadowCatboy posted:And they pronounced everything else incorrectly because they thought that pronouncing Chinese words using Japanese phonetics was more "authentic." I'd like to see the Asylum parody of this movie, where Katara is called Karate, Ang is just short for Anglosaxon, and a scene where Karate uses bloodbending and waterbending to create a water tornado of sharks to defeat the fire nation, obviously tying into the sharknado series, and revealing the mystery of the sharknado.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:23
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Where are you guys seeing episode ten already?
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Aug 8, 2014 02:28
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TheModernAmerican posted:Where are you guys seeing episode ten already? Where do you think?
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Aug 8, 2014 02:29
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TheModernAmerican posted:Where are you guys seeing episode ten already? http://korraspirit.net/watch/long-live-the-queen/ But turn off your adblocker and watch it at Nick's site tomorrow
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Aug 8, 2014 02:55
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E: ^^ Thanks, actually helpful person.Irish Joe posted:Where do you think? Probably a website of some variety, perhaps with a flash application that plays back video. Maybe you're all one person controlling several accounts taunting me, and exclusively me. Maybe you're all part of some secret club that distributes laserdiscs of television programs. Maybe you're all members of a cabal of secret cartoon watching billionaires wielding dark influence over the affairs of international politics. Maybe you're a group of wizards wielding powers beyond my comprehension and using them to watch children's cartoons. Are any of these accurate?
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Aug 8, 2014 03:52
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TheModernAmerican posted:E: ^^ Thanks, actually helpful person. These two are close. It's actually a secret club that consists of a number of elite members all of whom want nothing more than to taunt you, and you alone. We meet on Sundays. There's usually pie. Wait, poo poo, I wasn't supposed to tell you. Now we have to wipe your memory again.
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Aug 8, 2014 04:17
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Sydin posted:I feel like a broken record, but that was a really good episode. Holy poo poo, a Captain Gloval tribute out of nowhere! Fits with the stranded out in the middle of nowhere scenario.
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Aug 8, 2014 05:02
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I could look at most of the changes for the Avatar movie individually in a vacuum and think "I can sorta see what they were going with this." Because well, film adaptions do have that right to be independent interpretations of the source material, if they weren't each in turn undermined by the implementation. Like, changing each nation to reflect a different ethnicity? I can see that as being vaguely an interesting or at least justifiable in a creative sense but then why make the protagonists white people? But a movie made out of good intentions and then bad implementations is just a train wreck waiting to happen. Semi related, but I'm usually of the opinion that as a white guy, I think white guys are boring; and in games or other fictional escapist media I prefer to read or play as other ethnicities or genders because I consider them more interesting, is that 'bigoted'? Someone on the internet insisted I was; but I feel that this opinion lies smack dab in the center as to why I love Korra and the avatarverse, is this true for others? Edit: I also like the idea that M Night is a huge fan and really tried as hard as he could, I prefer the happier and more tragic narrative to "M Night is a bad director" when a few of his films had been decent to pretty good. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 05:05
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quote:What other end-game is there for any plan of Zaheer's that involves the Avatar but a peace enforced by the power of the Avatar?
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Aug 8, 2014 05:46
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Oracle posted:He wants to get rid of ALL leaders. The Avatar is the spiritual leader of the people. Do the math. He had to kidnap her, because just killing her if she's not in the avatar state doesn't end the Avatar cycle of reincarnation. She'd have been a lot easier to kill as a little kid I'm sure, but Zaheer is the kind of guy who rolls with the punches. Tell her his plan, see if he can't win her over, wait til she goes into the avatar state for whatever reason then stab her in the back. If he can't win her over, goad her or threaten her until she goes glowy then wham. I don't know, Zaheer sounded genuine in the spirit world when he said his plan hadn't been to kill Korra, but to have her trained by the Red Lotus and share their views. At this point, I'm just not convinced he wants her dead. "The end of the Avatar" can be interpreted in any number of ways.
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Aug 8, 2014 05:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:Semi related, but I'm usually of the opinion that as a white guy, I think white guys are boring; and in games or other fictional escapist media I prefer to read or play as other ethnicities or genders because I consider them more interesting, is that 'bigoted'? Someone on the internet insisted I was; but I feel that this opinion lies smack dab in the center as to why I love Korra and the avatarverse, is this true for others? It's incredibly poorly expressed. People are saying you're bigoted when you phrase it that way it sounds less like "I find being exposed to different cultures an enjoyable and thought provoking experience" and a lot more like "Brown people are a funny gimmicky amusement"
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Aug 8, 2014 07:45
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Calico Noose posted:It's incredibly poorly expressed. People are saying you're bigoted when you phrase it that way it sounds less like "I find being exposed to different cultures an enjoyable and thought provoking experience" and a lot more like "Brown people are a funny gimmicky amusement" Ah, well in this case the person was quite specific in saying I was being bigoted towards white people. e: However its good to know I should phrase that better for the benefit of people who would think and have the former concern.
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Aug 8, 2014 07:52
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The worst thing about the movie is that I've liked the actor for Zuko ever since he was in Skins, he wasn't perfect for the role mind you but I think he could have pulled off season 2 and 3 zuko really well.
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Aug 8, 2014 08:39
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Raenir Salazar posted:I could look at most of the changes for the Avatar movie individually in a vacuum and think "I can sorta see what they were going with this." Because well, film adaptions do have that right to be independent interpretations of the source material, if they weren't each in turn undermined by the implementation. Like, changing each nation to reflect a different ethnicity? I can see that as being vaguely an interesting or at least justifiable in a creative sense but then why make the protagonists white people? Generally you do a "reinterpretation" or "reimagining" of source material when the original material has become outdated and needs to be readjusted to fit contemporary mores and themes. The reimagined Battlestar Galactica series was possible because the source material was 25 years old, ridiculously campy 70s pulp sci fi, and Ronald D Moore wanted to re-align the series with post-9/11 current events. There's no goddamn point to do a "reinterpretation" or "reimagination" of source material when the original series was still not only a masterpiece on its own, but was still alive and kicking through season 3 when production started. Honestly, switching out the cultural elements from Avatar was one of the worst things they could do. ATLA's central premise is that it's an East-Asian, Sinocentric world with corresponding themes drawn from Confucianism, Buddhism, Taoism, etc. These factors were integral to the series' storyline as well as its depth of world development, and swapping them out gutted the film of everything that made ATLA great. ShadowCatboy fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 08:40
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Yeah, of all the changes, that is the thing that is basically the most inexcusable. Having the Fire Nation need a source of whatever, sure, that's not a big thing. Removing as much of the core of the series as possible though? Why even loving bother at that point.
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Aug 8, 2014 08:43
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Honestly I wouldn't of cared if they had changed absolutely everything if it had been a good movie, maybe a bit confused why they used the name, but fundamentally I would be okay with it. A movie is different from a TV show, a book, a radio show, or any other medium, and what ever happens the work still exist in its original format unchanged, so who cares if the adaptation is different as long it is good. In many ways the movie was trying to be to faithful to random story points, which lacked any emotional impact due to other story elements not being included, and changes to the characters. Half the film just seemed to be pointless exposition dumps. Sure they wanted to get across an entire seasons worth of plot in an hour and a half, but If you're not showing who cares. It worked in the show becasue we saw it in the show. In the film we were just told it and it sucked. Sure the show would do the occasional exposition dump, but it would usually be earnt in some way. I would of been all for them change the story completely if it meant they could of spent more time making the characters likable or setting up a proper story arc and not just a lose connection of things that happened. The bad directing/acting/casting/everything else didn't help, but the movie was set to fail as soon as that script was written.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:15
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Episode 10 now available
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Aug 8, 2014 16:48
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That was a pretty good episode.
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Aug 8, 2014 18:15
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Too bad the Earth Queen probably didn't hear Zaheer's pithy speech about freedom, what with the vacuumbending insulating her head from sound as well as air.
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Aug 8, 2014 18:39
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You know what I think would be really cool but I don't expect them to do? If Korra told Zaheer about the time she almost killed Tarrlok, and how even though poo poo went really south after he captured her, on some level she's glad Tarrlok bloodbent her because it saved her from being a murderer. Edit: ShadowCatboy posted:Too bad the Earth Queen probably didn't hear Zaheer's pithy speech about freedom, what with the vacuumbending insulating her head from sound as well as air.
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Aug 8, 2014 18:51
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ShadowCatboy posted:Too bad the Earth Queen probably didn't hear Zaheer's pithy speech about freedom, what with the vacuumbending insulating her head from sound as well as air. Wasn't he just stopping air from entering her mouth and lungs? I'd think there might still have been air to carry the sound to her ears.
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Aug 8, 2014 18:55
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Whoever runs the Legend of Korra facebook page should get a bonus. 
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Aug 8, 2014 19:03
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Something Positive posted:Whoever runs the Legend of Korra facebook page should get a bonus. SpiderHyphenMan posted:In Nick's defense, if I was an advertising executive for a children's network, there are more than a few episodes of Korra that I would just have no idea what to do with.
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Aug 8, 2014 19:08
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