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OwlBot 2000 posted:Hamas backers spend fortunes on rockets and tunnels while Gazans live in misery Fox News Descries Wasteful Military Spending, Wants Money Diverted to Public Works
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Aug 8, 2014 21:40
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OwlBot 2000 posted:The Saudis and Jordanians absolutely could afford to help the Palestines. I wonder why they haven't touched Palestine and been dicks to them since 1967, though, it's a really troubling question.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:43
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OwlBot 2000 posted:Hamas backers spend fortunes on rockets and tunnels while Gazans live in misery quote:retired Maj. Gen. Yaakov Amidror, former national security advisor to the prime minister of Israel and director of the Intelligence Analysis Division in Israel’s Military Intelligence, toldFoxNews.com. hmm.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:43
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Xandu posted:Iran's financial and military support of Hezbollah, Assad, and Shia militias in Iraq is not vaguely supported. Hezbollah isn't really a terrorist group. They also need to support Assad and shia militias or most of the minorities will be exterminated by IS and other groups that fight in both Syria and Iraq. Iran is more of a stabalizing force in the middle east then any other country.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:43
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OwlBot 2000 posted:Hamas backers spend fortunes on rockets and tunnels while Gazans live in misery It's not an either/or thing. One of the reasons Hamas got elected is because they also do a lot of humanitarian work.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:43
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Arguing with a friend of a friend, and he is claiming that Hamas uses ambulances to get around/attack from, citing [url= http://www.truthrevolt.org/israel-revolt/hamas-using-ambulances-shield-terrorists-video]this[/url] article as evidence. I can only find this sort of stuff on extremely right wing/pro israel sites, is there any good evidence for or against this? Ask that person why on earth they are getting their news from Truth Revolt. Look at this poo poo. And there are three times as many hits for Benghazi as there are for bin Laden.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:45
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all this "Hamas builds rockets while palestinians starve!" stuff is utter BS according to the budget released in 2013 (of which I don't recall ever seeing serious doubts on its credibility, if anyone has a more neutral mirror feel free to share): http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/iw/originals/2013/01/hamas-budget-transparency.html It places their Security budget at 30%, slightly less than that of the West Bank.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:50
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MrBims posted:Ask that person why on earth they are getting their news from Truth Revolt. Look at this poo poo. And there are three times as many hits for Benghazi as there are for bin Laden. He's been citing theblaze, Fox news, jpost etc this whole time. Usually it is easy to grab something to refute, but when I try to Google on this subject the entire thing is right wing blogs.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:59
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Arguing with a friend of a friend, and he is claiming that Hamas uses ambulances to get around/attack from, citing [url= http://www.truthrevolt.org/israel-revolt/hamas-using-ambulances-shield-terrorists-video]this[/url] article as evidence. I can only find this sort of stuff on extremely right wing/pro israel sites, is there any good evidence for or against this? The point isn't that it's true or not, the point is that it tells him what he wants to hear and resolves his cognitive dissonance.
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Aug 8, 2014 22:08
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I could be mistaken but I think military aid is still a treaty obligation under the Camp David Accords. It could even tie very well into Egypt and Israel basically negotiating with Hamas without any real input from the US. "Well, I see you two are all lovey-dovey, I'm sure you won't mind us not arming either of you anymore, right? Good." ETA: By the way, has this come up yet? Apparently not only is the IDF poorly-trained in actual combat - they are barely potty-trained! quote:When Ahmed Owedat returned to his home 18 days after Israeli soldiers took it over in the middle of the night, he was greeted with an overpowering stench. Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 22:08
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Arguing with a friend of a friend, and he is claiming that Hamas uses ambulances to get around/attack from, citing [url= http://www.truthrevolt.org/israel-revolt/hamas-using-ambulances-shield-terrorists-video]this[/url] article as evidence. I can only find this sort of stuff on extremely right wing/pro israel sites, is there any good evidence for or against this? The Independent posted:The Israeli military have claimed that fighters had been using ambulances for transport. This, unsurprisingly, is denied by the paramedics. They did so with a touch of weariness. “They always say that, but then they check the ambulances in the frontline areas anyway, if there were resistance people there, they will find them,” stressed Abu Moussab. “But perhaps they think all ambulances are carrying the resistance, maybe that's why they shoot at us routinely; deny us entry to pick up the wounded.” Other links: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/ambulance-workers-brave-gaza-dangers-20147157215230440.html http://paramedicsingaza.org/ http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.608892 http://www.france24.com/en/20140715-video-gaza-palestinian-ambulance-emergency-israel/ And so on.
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Aug 8, 2014 22:21
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R. Mute posted:It's a claim that's been doing the rounds during every Israeli invasion/bombing campaign during the last few years. Outside an isolated incident in 2008 which was never really confirmed, it's mostly just an excuse to hit ambulances. Awesome, thanks for the links!
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Aug 8, 2014 22:38
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I've seen a few too many recent photos and videos with blown up ambulances to really agree that it's a deterring factor for the IDF.
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Aug 8, 2014 22:42
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Absurd Alhazred posted:It could even tie very well into Egypt and Israel basically negotiating with Hamas without any real input from the US. "Well, I see you two are all lovey-dovey, I'm sure you won't mind us not arming either of you anymore, right? Good." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJljj3bvf5o e: Actually, on the subject of human waste ... I keep seeing Hamas' homemade rockets being called piss-rockets or something similar. Do they use urea/uric acid/weaponized pee matter in the production of propellant or something, like, for honest and for true? The civilian population must be denied access to potable water if this is true. Parpy fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 22:45
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OwlBot 2000 posted:The Saudis and Jordanians absolutely could afford to help the Palestines. So could the USA and Israel.
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Aug 8, 2014 22:49
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Zeitgueist posted:So could the USA and Israel. They could, but they don't profess to care about Palestinians and openly support Israel instead. The Arab countries claim to love Palestinians as brothers in Islam and yet they do nothing. Palestine has no friend.
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Aug 8, 2014 22:56
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Parpy posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJljj3bvf5o The ammonia in urine mixes with the fertilizer. I think it's the same basic reaction used in the OKC blast.
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Aug 8, 2014 23:16
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Parpy posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJljj3bvf5o You need nitrate to make oxidizer for explosives, and the ammonia in urine is a good source for that if you don't have access to modern chemical processes. In fact, up to the 19th century there were nitrate collection laws in all western countries. Farmers were legally required to allow government people access to their stables to dig up the animal pee soaked earth and wash out the ammonia crystals.
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Aug 8, 2014 23:19
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Parpy posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJljj3bvf5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWldVr5vts Essentially, Qassam rockets use a combination of sugar and potassium nitrate which can be processed from urine/excrement in various amounts. You could build these in your basement - in fact, the quality of rockets that I could produce in my garage, with my tools, measuring equipment and unlimited electricity/internet access would probably be much greater than the quality of rockets Hamas can produce. Sugar burns quite well, but it doesn't burn fast. Potassium Nitrate is an oxidizer that speeds up the burning turning it into fuel. All you really need is a sand pit for people to urinate in, time, and access to sugary candies in sufficient quantities and you have fuel.
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Aug 8, 2014 23:19
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Pope Guilty posted:The ammonia in urine mixes with the fertilizer. I think it's the same basic reaction used in the OKC blast. 'Come on, brothers. Drink! Drink... for terrorism!' *the men laugh as they drink, water spilling out of their mouths as they do so* *jump cut to the men peeing terroristically into a headless rocket* *cut to a huge mushroom cloud* *picture of a crying Israeli child* 'This has been an IDF production.'
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Aug 8, 2014 23:24
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R. Mute posted:*fade in - a room full of balaclava wearing men are just, like, chugging litres and litres of water* IDF PR Meets Jackass.
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Aug 8, 2014 23:37
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I've been thinking about the effectiveness of the Iron Dome system. For starters to debunk Finkelstein's statement regarding the fact that the number of casualties during 'cast lead' and 'protective edge' is identical, this is not true, according to wikipedia during cast lead a total of 571 rockets have been launched killing 3 people in Israel, according to the IDF spokesperson during protective edge 3184 rockets were launched killing one person in total. 2 more were killed during protective edge by mortars which cannot be intercepted by iron dome. Of course there's still the question of how much Israel's other missile defenses have improved (early warning, bomb shelters etc). Assuming a similar level of 'defenses' and Hamas rocketry capabilities as in cast lead you'd expect something to the effect of 18 Israeli casualties during protective edge, so there's a significant improvement in Israel's rocket defense capabilities either way. Regardless, this doesn't really contradict Finkelstein's comment that the Iron Dome's main success is as a propaganda asset, Israelis have been rather confident in the system's capabilities. Artillery rockets in general are not an effective weapon, a worst case scenario of 18 casualties and several hundreds of thousands of dollars in material damages is generally speaking a drop in the ocean, the reduction in casualties cannot be wholly attributed to the iron dome, and the cost of the interceptor missiles greatly exceeds the cost of the damages the artillery rockets could have caused. Worth noting that Israelis in general still drop whatever they're doing and head for shelter when a rocket is inbound, even with the iron dome, so the secondary economic effect is unchanged by Iron Dome. As for the actual percentage of interceptions, ignoring Postol's parameters for a succesful interception and only taking into account the number of rocket attacks that 'broke through' and managed to hit an Israeli city, according to Israeli sources there were roughly 115 successful rocket attacks and 528 interceptions, on the basis of these two stats alone it's safe to say that the "91% success rate" reported by the IDF is somewhat exaggerated, it's closer to 82%, this still suggests a very different story then what Postol is claiming, so either IDF is reporting wrong or misleading information or Postol's information is incorrect.
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Aug 8, 2014 23:56
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Anybody hear about anyone other than Gabriele Barbati making any claims about pressure from Hamas stopping them from reporting how it is all actually Hamas's fault? Because Ben Caspit, notorious Im Yirzu promoter, makes much of this notion, talking about "many foreign correspondents" coming to Israel's aid in this way.
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Aug 8, 2014 23:59
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Kajeesus posted:Israel is literally seeking the deaths of innocent children, and half its (polled) population is complaining that the IDF isn't bloodthirsty enough. Do you find that unobjectionable and inoffensive? I would find it objectionable and offensive, if it were true and not a delusion. No doubt there are some Israeli extremists and their partisans who are seeking the deaths of innocent children, and certainly IDF policy does not go far enough to avoid civilian deaths. I shouldn't have to explain why that's far from an assertion that the Israeli people thirst for the blood of Palestinian children. But speaking for this thread, the only people I've seen whose positions come close to that are the more extreme "pro"-Palestinian partisans who have made it clear that when compared with a long-term ceasefire they'd rather see Palestinian civilians continuing to die in large numbers if it hastens their much fantasized Middle Eastern gotterdamerung. To be fair, their position is not "I want Palestinian children to die by the hundreds", but "Palestinian children should die by the hundreds if it's the only way to achieve the end of the state of Israel". Unlike them, I can't accept the sort of human carnage seen in Gaza as an acceptable means to an end.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:06
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The Insect Court posted:I would find it objectionable and offensive, if it were true and not a delusion. No doubt there are some Israeli extremists and their partisans who are seeking the deaths of innocent children, and certainly IDF policy does not go far enough to avoid civilian deaths. I shouldn't have to explain why that's far from an assertion that the Israeli people thirst for the blood of Palestinian children. No this is pretty much made up, we have people in the thread calling Palestinians vermin.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:09
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kalstrams posted:Sorry if it already has been posted, but I just found out a website that claims to visualise rocket attacks on Israel. I'd love it if they had a thing that showed the casualties and property damage for each hit.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:10
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Anybody hear about anyone other than Gabriele Barbati making any claims about pressure from Hamas stopping them from reporting how it is all actually Hamas's fault? Because Ben Caspit, notorious Im Yirzu promoter, makes much of this notion, talking about "many foreign correspondents" coming to Israel's aid in this way. I've failed to find any examples of other reporters being intimidated into not negatively reporting on Hamas (in spite of the fact that plenty of other reporters have presumably left the gaza strip and are far away from Hamas retaliation, and that plenty of sites would be chomping at the chance for a story like "Hamas intimidates countless reporters into remaining silent!"). I've seen Gabriele trotted out elsewhere and the people who use him as an example fail to find other cases as well. Someone in this thread also claimed that he had a previous tweet claiming the massacre of the four kids on the beach was caused by "misfired rockets", must have been some catastrophically unlucky rockets to land near the children, then directly on them as they fled from the first misfired rocket.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:12
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/palestinians-return-home-israeli-troops-faeces-graffiti
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Aug 9, 2014 00:28
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The Insect Court posted:I would find it objectionable and offensive, if it were true and not a delusion. No doubt there are some Israeli extremists and their partisans who are seeking the deaths of innocent children, and certainly IDF policy does not go far enough to avoid civilian deaths. I shouldn't have to explain why that's far from an assertion that the Israeli people thirst for the blood of Palestinian children. Hahah where are you even getting this poo poo? Did you make it up just now?
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Aug 9, 2014 00:28
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Kajeesus posted:Hahah where are you even getting this poo poo? Did you make it up just now? Yeah I would be interested in him finding someone quoted to say that. Because no amount of civilian causalities will result in the end of Israel, maybe economic sanctions which would get them to stop loving with Gaza/West Bank, but that is an absolute best case scenario. Though it is kind of hilarious given how Cavalier IC is with Palestinian lives when it comes to hurting HAMAS.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:31
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Translating text from under this photo on Facebook: (label says: "84 copies of Parshat Ketoret and Sacrificial Procedures") A sole cardboard box sits in the assembly area, by the water tank. It wasn't filled with field rations, socks, or snacks from the home front. Instead what was hidden there were hundreds of of copies of this week's Parasha, so that any soldier coming in to quench their thirst, can also quench their religious thirst. Soldiers were passing before it with white Nahman Meuman caps which they got from Habad vans which circled the assembly zones like no Association for the Wellbeing of Israel's Soldierד van ever did. The military already has a name for this phenomenon. They call it "hadata"/"religionation". Those who stayed in the military after I was released tell me of religious workshops disguised as "education", of messianic lectures by rabbis disguised as "family unity improvement" evenings for lifers, of selichot tours in Jerusalem led by religious non-for-profits, of booklets by "Jewish Consciousness", the active propaganda division of the Military Rabbinate, whose budget grows bigger and takes a bite out of that of the Education Corps. IDF is a strong army, so why does it have to spend so much on people telling it that God is with it?
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Aug 9, 2014 00:54
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OwlBot 2000 posted:Hamas backers spend fortunes on rockets and tunnels while Gazans live in misery I've been seeing people claim that if Hamas and company had diverted all their resources from rocket building and tunnels that they would have a world class resort now and Gaza Strip would be a tourist destination. How and where they came up with an idea so idiotic is beyond my reasoning.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:58
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CharlestheHammer posted:Yeah I would be interested in him finding someone quoted to say that. Back when the 72-hour ceasefire went into effect I asked if any of the "pro-Palestinian" posters wanted to take a position in favor of the ceasefire. None did, the only posters who offered a coherent response were the ones who inveighed against a ceasefire and urged further "resistance" against Israel despite the clear consequences. Anyone want to criticize Hamas for not agreeing to an extension of the ceasefire? Or even merely endorse a re-implementation of it on the same terms? I'm not going to hold my breath.
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Aug 9, 2014 01:04
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The Insect Court posted:Back when the 72-hour ceasefire went into effect I asked if any of the "pro-Palestinian" posters wanted to take a position in favor of the ceasefire. None did, the only posters who offered a coherent response were the ones who inveighed against a ceasefire and urged further "resistance" against Israel despite the clear consequences. Shut the gently caress up. Parpy posted:e: Actually, on the subject of human waste ... I keep seeing Hamas' homemade rockets being called piss-rockets or something similar. Do they use urea/uric acid/weaponized pee matter in the production of propellant or something, like, for honest and for true? The civilian population must be denied access to potable water if this is true. I'm not sure if anyone really knows how Hamas makes their rockets, but the rockets are of such poor homemade quality that it's feasible that piss is involved in the production somehow.
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Aug 9, 2014 01:11
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The Insect Court posted:Back when the 72-hour ceasefire went into effect I asked if any of the "pro-Palestinian" posters wanted to take a position in favor of the ceasefire. None did, the only posters who offered a coherent response were the ones who inveighed against a ceasefire and urged further "resistance" against Israel despite the clear consequences. Sorry, yeah, I can see how you think that's saying babies should die until the state of Israel is destroyed. My mistake.
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Aug 9, 2014 01:19
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The Insect Court posted:Back when the 72-hour ceasefire went into effect I asked if any of the "pro-Palestinian" posters wanted to take a position in favor of the ceasefire. None did, the only posters who offered a coherent response were the ones who inveighed against a ceasefire and urged further "resistance" against Israel despite the clear consequences. It's weird, it sort of feels like you're misrepresenting the argument!
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Aug 9, 2014 01:22
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The Insect Court posted:Back when the 72-hour ceasefire went into effect I asked if any of the "pro-Palestinian" posters wanted to take a position in favor of the ceasefire. None did, the only posters who offered a coherent response were the ones who inveighed against a ceasefire and urged further "resistance" against Israel despite the clear consequences. The Insect Court posted:Anyone want to criticize Hamas for not agreeing to an extension of the ceasefire? Or even merely endorse a re-implementation of it on the same terms? I'm not going to hold my breath. Nah, its fairly understandable. A ceasefire doesn't actually help HAMAS or the Pal all that much. Instead of dying in front of everyone and maybe winning some supporters, they will instead go back to dying slowly while everyone looks on indifferently.
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Aug 9, 2014 01:27
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CitizenKain posted:I've been seeing people claim that if Hamas and company had diverted all their resources from rocket building and tunnels that they would have a world class resort now and Gaza Strip would be a tourist destination. How and where they came up with an idea so idiotic is beyond my reasoning. It's because they [muricans] were never told that the Palestinians live in the same sort of conditions as the African slaves.
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Aug 9, 2014 01:28
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The Insect Court posted:Why won't they go like sheep to the slaughter? How dare people in this thread suggest they should do anything else?
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Aug 9, 2014 01:29
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On the most basic level it should be pretty obvious that an indefinite cease fire with no significant Israeli concessions is just a return to the status quo, which means Israel will go for another 'operation' in a year or two.
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Aug 9, 2014 01:35
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