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I've noticed (both from this, and from other sources) that there seems to be a common conception that the most radical, violent Jihadists are frequently loose with regards to certain parts of Islamic morality and piety. Can a more knowledgeable person on the matter tell me if there is a level of truth to this stereotype?
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Aug 9, 2014 18:28
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:any one of them could be him It's clear what we must do,
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Aug 9, 2014 18:37
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:I've noticed (both from this, and from other sources) that there seems to be a common conception that the most radical, violent Jihadists are frequently loose with regards to certain parts of Islamic morality and piety. Can a more knowledgeable person on the matter tell me if there is a level of truth to this stereotype? That tends to follow with most extremists of any abrahamic (and probably other) religions; jihadist muslims, fundie evangelicals, zionist jews (I understand that a large number of zionist jews are secular, but they do tend to fall back on religious reasons and religious history to justify their land grabs) etc. require some sort of ignorance of the moral laws of "don't be dicks mmkay" to push their very specific agendas.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:11
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Zen
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Aug 9, 2014 19:11
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It is pretty interesting to see the patriarchy once again hurting men, as males 18 and above are just out of hand written off as legitimate targets.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:14
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Shaocaholica posted:18 is a modern western concept of adulthood/combat readiness. I see 15/16 thrown around a lot in other parts of the world like the ME. If you're interested in the data, here's a Github repo where I uploaded stuff I scraped from IMEMC, Al-Akhbar, as well as Times of Israel for Israeli soldiers. The readme describes the variables, and the data are in text files - so you can open them in Excel or something, if you don't know R (if you do, I include a script to create some plots, also available in the repo). Here are some plots, btw (also available in the repo): Cumulative deaths over the operation  Hexbin of Palestinian deaths, no simulated data for "unknown"  Hexbin of Palestinian deaths with simulated data for "unknown"  Scatterplot with simulated data (red = assumed Palestinian man, black = assumed Palestinian woman)  Same with Israeli data (light blue)  And, to rest from all the statistics, here's Humanize Palestine and Beyond the Number. (I'm currently learning ggplot, which is the R graphics package. Hence all the graphs. The standard disclaimer that data is only as good as the source applies.)
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Aug 9, 2014 19:45
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150,000 marching in London.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:53
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FRINGE posted:ISIS seems terrible, but it would be interesting to see the WORLD CLASS IDF have to deal with them instead of just murdering malnourished children. I'm amused by the suggestion that an IDF strike on ISIS would result in anything other than the usual suspects expressing solidarity with ISIS against the evil IDF. I appreciate the hedging admission that ISIS "seems" terrible to you, however. Darth Walrus posted:Do we actually know how effective Hamas's underground fortifications are at protecting their troops? If the answer is 'not very', that may be another good reason not to invest in underground shelters for the civilian population when UN schools (theoretically) present a safer alternative. The tunnels running into Israel weren't effective at protecting Hamas fighters because they were built for offensive use.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:56
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The Insect Court posted:I'm amused by the suggestion that an IDF strike on ISIS would result in anything other than the usual suspects expressing solidarity with ISIS against the evil IDF. Bashar al-Assad would have an aneurysm. It's not like this poo poo makes any sense now. Assad hates ISIS which hates United States which hates Assad which hates...
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Aug 9, 2014 20:00
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meristem posted:If you're interested in the data, here's a Github repo where I uploaded stuff I scraped from IMEMC, Al-Akhbar, as well as Times of Israel for Israeli soldiers. The readme describes the variables, and the data are in text files - so you can open them in Excel or something, if you don't know R (if you do, I include a script to create some plots, also available in the repo). Any way to modify the python syntax to extract location from the circumstances variable?
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Aug 9, 2014 20:03
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Panzeh posted:Counting pretty much anyone as dead VC was part of the problem in Vietnam, too. It's almost worthless to talk about VC casualties because the US tended to count virtually anyone they killed as VC. The only reasonable way to count actual casualties caused on the enemy would be to count captured weapons. Why go back all the way to Vietnam? Remember just a couple years ago the US was disputing civilian casualty figures for its drone strikes compiled by human rights organizations by citing its own numbers that counted every "military aged male" as a non-civilian. It's disgusting justification but basically par for the course.
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Aug 9, 2014 20:18
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The Insect Court posted:I'm amused by the suggestion that an IDF strike on ISIS would result in anything other than the usual suspects expressing solidarity with ISIS against the evil IDF. I appreciate the hedging admission that ISIS "seems" terrible to you, however. I'm curious, who exactly are these "usual suspects" that would sympathize with ISIS?
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Aug 9, 2014 20:24
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The Insect Court posted:I'm amused by the suggestion that an IDF strike on ISIS would result in anything other than the usual suspects expressing solidarity with ISIS against the evil IDF. I appreciate the hedging admission that ISIS "seems" terrible to you, however. I really, really want to know what kind of dirt you have on Evilweasel that lets you get away with years worth of posts like this in Israel threads.
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Aug 9, 2014 20:25
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ElrondHubbard posted:I'm curious, who exactly are these "usual suspects" that would sympathize with ISIS? Everyone who speaks against Israel, duh.
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Aug 9, 2014 20:32
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Medieval Medic posted:Everyone who speaks against Israel, duh. Well that makes total sense! If you are against the IDF you are for Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization so you are for terrorists. Therefore, you are for ISIS/ISIL because they are terrorists! Flawless logic.
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Aug 9, 2014 20:36
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Agrajag posted:Well that makes total sense! It's maddening, isn't it. I have a friend who is impossible to talk to about Israel because he's only interested in anti-semitism. He actually told me "I know you're not anti-Semitic but a lot of people who oppose Israel are." Basically, controlling the conversation by forcing anyone with any criticism at all to have to defend the politics of every critic out there. Do we actually need a #NotAllIsraelCritics?
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Aug 9, 2014 20:50
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Am I being accused of supporting ISIS now? How novel.
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Aug 9, 2014 20:56
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bencreateddisco posted:Am I being accused of supporting ISIS now? Stop supporting mass murderers.
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Aug 9, 2014 20:59
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Neurolimal posted:I really, really want to know what kind of dirt you have on Evilweasel that lets you get away with years worth of posts like this in Israel threads. I believe this is the second time you've accused the mods of conspiring in this way. That's probably a claim you shouldn't make without some evidence. Do you actually have any reason to believe this or are you just venting? ElrondHubbard posted:I'm curious, who exactly are these "usual suspects" that would sympathize with ISIS? The people who shriek that Israeli military action in Gaza(or anywhere else, generally) is "genocide", who shrug with indifference when a group like ISIS boasts of the impending genocide it plans to commit, who only bestir themselves when the US announces military action against ISIS and then mostly to whinge about the US. While we can only speculate, it's not as if it's that great a step from sympathizing with one Islamist terrorist organization with genocidal intent to another one.
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Aug 9, 2014 21:48
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The Insect Court posted:I believe this is the second time you've accused the mods of conspiring in this way. That's probably a claim you shouldn't make without some evidence. Do you actually have any reason to believe this or are you just venting? You're very good with making poo poo up and treating it as fact.
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Aug 9, 2014 21:54
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The Insect Court posted:The people who shriek that Israeli military action in Gaza(or anywhere else, generally) is "genocide", who shrug with indifference when a group like ISIS boasts of the impending genocide it plans to commit, who only bestir themselves when the US announces military action against ISIS and then mostly to whinge about the US. While we can only speculate, it's not as if it's that great a step from sympathizing with one Islamist terrorist organization with genocidal intent to another one. Who are these people denying that ISIS is committing genocide or justifying it? Like, is there even a single example?
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Aug 9, 2014 21:55
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The Insect Court posted:The people who shriek that Israeli military action in Gaza(or anywhere else, generally) is "genocide", who shrug with indifference when a group like ISIS boasts of the impending genocide it plans to commit, who only bestir themselves when the US announces military action against ISIS and then mostly to whinge about the US. While we can only speculate, it's not as if it's that great a step from sympathizing with one Islamist terrorist organization with genocidal intent to another one. This is an absurd statement. Hamas is nowhere close to being as brutal as ISIS. ISIS isn't completely besieged by a far more powerful force and isn't incapable of actually realizing any genocidal goals. Speculating that somebody who cares about Gaza is a straight up genocidal monster is insulting. And anyway, I haven't seen people shrug their shoulders at ISIS.
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Aug 9, 2014 21:55
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The Insect Court posted:I believe this is the second time you've accused the mods of conspiring in this way. There doesn't need to be a conspiracy, just moderators too afraid of appearing biased to ban/exile the poster who's entire post history throughout years worth of Israel threads has consisted of calling everyone else in the thread bigots. quote:And anyway, I haven't seen people shrug their shoulders at ISIS. It's a common tactic to suggest that your opponent is too biased towards <crisis you're involved in> as opposed to <crisis you aren't involved in>, it becomes completely absurd when applied in a forum where each <crisis> has its own thread. Why are the people in the Israel/Palestine megathread so indifferent towards ISIS's atrocities? *ignores that there's a middle-east thread focused almost entirely on ISIS atrocities* Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 21:55
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The Insect Court posted:I believe this is the second time you've accused the mods of conspiring in this way. That's probably a claim you shouldn't make without some evidence. Do you actually have any reason to believe this or are you just venting? You are a spectacular idiot. The only time ISIS was mentioned in ANY light in the I/P thread is when people remark in comparison how 'bad' HAMAS is how much worse it would be under ISIS, both in terms of actual threat to Israel and implied humanitarian concerns. Reading your posts is like watching a prolonged prostate self-exam. Actually learn what positions you are arguing against instead of pulling them whole from your colon. No one here actually LIKES terrorism and us of the Left/Liberal/Secular/etc side of the equation ESPECIALLY don't like hardcore religious reactionary groups on principal, regardless of who they are fighting, even if they are a fighting a larger, more powerful, but only slightly less racist and right-wing power. Sometimes there are no good teams to route for and only losers in a given conflict. Berk Berkly fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 22:11
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Why would people talk about ISIS in the I/P thread? Unless ISIS invades the area they aren't relevant. I mean there is a reason D&D isn't just one big thread. Though is position is even more hilarious since I actually read both the I/P and middle east threads. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 22:36
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CharlestheHammer posted:Why would people talk about ISIS in the I/P thread? Unless ISIS invades the area they aren't relevant. All groups of Arabs are the same as one another. You cannot support Palestinian civilians without also supporting Hamas, Hezbollah and ISIS.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:40
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Per the Guardian website, Hamas says they will have a big increase in rocket launches starting tomorrow unless Israel agrees to end blockade. Called Israel's disarmament precondition "inconceivable".
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Aug 9, 2014 22:43
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The Insect Court posted:The people who shriek that Israeli military action in Gaza(or anywhere else, generally) is "genocide", who shrug with indifference when a group like ISIS boasts of the impending genocide it plans to commit, who only bestir themselves when the US announces military action against ISIS and then mostly to whinge about the US. While we can only speculate, it's not as if it's that great a step from sympathizing with one Islamist terrorist organization with genocidal intent to another one. One: We have a thread for ISIS, which is where people go to post about ISIS, rather than the I/P thread, which has nothing to do with ISIS, and correspondingly doesn't contain comments about ISIS. Two: People are allowed to care about one thing more than about another thing. Those of us that are opposed to the slaughter of innocent Palestinians are likely also opposed to the slaughter of innocent civilians in Syria, Tibet, Yemen and everywhere else, but nobody is under any obligation to split their time evenly between all those threads. Saying about one of 14 lovely things that it is indeed lovely is better than not saying that at all, and becomes no less valuable if that person does not also say about the other 13 lovely things that they are lovely.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:47
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PostNouveau posted:All groups of Arabs are the same as one another. You cannot support Palestinian civilians without also supporting Hamas, Hezbollah and ISIS. A truly disgusting and bigoted belief, just as is the belief that you cannot support Israeli civilians without also supporting the IDF's actions in Gaza. Berk Berkly posted:You are a spectacular idiot. The only time ISIS was mentioned in ANY light in the I/P thread is when people remark in comparison how 'bad' HAMAS is how much worse it would be under ISIS, both in terms of actual threat to Israel and implied humanitarian concerns. Passing over your insipid and pointless personal attacks, I direct you to the following post from the previous page: FRINGE posted:ISIS seems terrible, but it would be interesting to see the WORLD CLASS IDF have to deal with them instead of just murdering malnourished children. FRINGE is not comparing ISIS to Hamas, but to the IDF, so your premise is demonstrably wrong.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:54
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The Insect Court posted:A truly disgusting and bigoted belief, just as is the belief that you cannot support Israeli civilians without also supporting the IDF's actions in Gaza. Is this the case for you? You spend a lot of time excusing IDF atrocities for someone who sees himself as purely supporting Israeli civilians.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:58
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The Insect Court posted:
He is not comparing them he wants them to wipe each other out or weakening them. Which how you feel about that is how you feel about killing in general. If a guy (or group) is bad enough do they deserve to be killed in military conflict. Many feel ISIS qualifies and so do the IDF. I don't think I agree but I don't think that is an uncommon feeling towards ISIS.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:02
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The Insect Court posted:I'm amused by ElrondHubbard posted:I'm curious, who exactly are these "usual suspects" that would sympathize with ISIS? Well lets see! The Insect Court posted:Do you guys still think anybody who disagrees with you is a paid agent of a Soros-led global conspiracy? Or is that The Insect Court posted:I didn't blow up the WTC(which is what I would say if I were a secret pod person reptiloid hazbara clone trooper) but The Insect Court posted:Don't you mean back to the true home of the Jews, the sunken city of R'yleh? The Insect Court posted:When you get this deep into a conspiracy theory, the lack of evidence becomes in itself a kind of evidence. No "evidence" those inhuman Zionist monsters plan to indiscriminately murder millions? That just proves the inhuman Zionist monsters are sneaky liars as well as genocidal killers, because they won't tell us their plans. The Insect Court posted:Because J-E-W-S. The Insect Court posted:Extreme anti-Zionists, like other bigots, tend to be able to hold multiple contradictory slurs in their heads at once. TIC is a functioning racial supremacist who hides by calling everyone else racist. He will immediately decry this because "he never even said he was a certain race" and then continue to do the same thing. Every faux-reasonable hasbara call for peace he makes involves the Palestinians committing suicide. 
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Aug 9, 2014 23:02
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, in which case who's leading the sinister Zionist conspiracy to spy on your thoughts? And what's this 'manual'? Is it like a crowd-sourced wiki-ed version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Because I don't think the dead tree version actually has an index.
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PostNouveau posted:Is this the case for you? You spend a lot of time excusing IDF atrocities for someone who sees himself as purely supporting Israeli civilians. Naturally, I've said nothing of the sort in this thread and I challenge you to find a post to the contrary. If such a post existed, you should be able to find it easily enough. Here, look how easy it is to find someone saying vile things, this took me about 15 seconds: Tezzor posted:Israelis are racist belligerent scum I've certainly not made a post saying anything to that effect. Contrariwise, I've criticized the IDF response as disproportionate and heavy-handed, and Israeli policy as immoral and illegal. In fact, I don't think I've seen a single post in this thread that espouses such a degree of undifferentiated hatred for the Palestinians, not that such a thing would be desirable or acceptable. FRINGE posted:TIC is a functioning racial supremacist who hides by calling everyone else racist. He will immediately decry this because "he never even said he was a certain race" and then continue to do the same thing. Every faux-reasonable hasbara call for peace he makes involves the Palestinians committing suicide. What do you mean by "he never even said he was a certain race"? Regardless, this seems a rather crystal clear violation against forum and thread rules of accusations of racism not to mention the "hasbara" thing. But you truly can't seem to restrain yourself in that regard. edit: Out of curiosity, where did you stumble across that picture? I did an image search for it to try to find an article which put it in some actual context, and the other sites where I found it were: http://www.dailystormer.com/jewish-students-volunteer-to-promote-pro-israel-war-propaganda-on-social-media-sites/comment-page-1/  caution on the above link, it's exactly the sort of site you'd guess it was from the domain namehttp://www.hangthebankers.com/israel-paying-students-to-spread-propaganda-online/ This seems to be more of a crazy Paul-ite one. But the copy of the image on this site is a different size that the one you posted, while the dimensions from the neo-Nazi site match yours. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 23:02
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The Insect Court posted:Regardless, this seems a rather crystal clear violation against forum and thread rules of accusations of racism not to mention the "hasbara" thing. But you truly can't seem to restrain yourself in that regard. The intense irony that emanates from a poster that continuously breaks the "stop calling other people rabid anti-semites" rule formed within this thread then proceeding to decry another poster for (in his eyes) breaking a rule is palpable.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:09
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Neurolimal posted:The intense irony that emanates from a poster that continuously breaks the "stop calling other people rabid anti-semites" rule formed within this thread then proceeding to decry another poster for (in his eyes) breaking a rule is palpable. Technically he stopped doing that. He is implying it now.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:10
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I'm still stunned that the IDF claims it's trying to avoid civilian casualties but it's killed more civilians percentage wise than the Allies in WWII when we were fire bombing entire cities because somewhere in there was a ball bearings factory which made it a "legitimate" military target.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:12
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Has IC produced a single pro-ISIS post from anywhere yet?
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Aug 9, 2014 23:13
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The Insect Court posted:Naturally, I've said nothing of the sort in this thread and I challenge you to find a post to the contrary. If such a post existed, you should be able to find it easily enough. Here, look how easy it is to find someone saying vile things, this took me about 15 seconds: You've continued to blame Hamas for civilian casualties caused by the IDF dropping huge bombs on civilians. If that's not apologizing for the IDF, I don't know what is. The Insect Court posted:Gaza is not literally a prison because it is not "a building (or vessel) in which people are legally held as a punishment for crimes they have committed or while awaiting trial." I mean, I know your main gimmick is #NotAllIsraelis, and that you really want to get people to admit that even though 95% of the Israeli public supporting bombing the gently caress out of Gaza, that any criticism of the Israeli public is anti-semetism. But aside from that gimmick, you've also been glossing over IDF culpability in its own actions.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:23
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 quote:One nation That's it people. Wrap it up. I really hope some leftist troll infiltrated the right wing anti-demonstration and held up that sign cause otherwise it's just too much. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 23:58
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The Insect Court posted:Here, look how easy it is to find someone saying vile things, this took me about 15 seconds: Israelis are racist belligerent scum. It's a factual statement based on the available evidence, there's nothing vile about it.
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Aug 10, 2014 00:03
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