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Just returned from watching it. It was pretty good, but I didn't feel blown away by it like a lot of other people did. Felt like the movie was a little too proud of its jokes, which were mostly tepid.
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Aug 10, 2014 08:34
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computer parts posted:Well, except Thor. I didn't really see any issue with this since it was literally the first 'cosmic' Marvel film and needed to explain that it wasn't a literal fantasy film somehow in the same universe as the much more science-focused Iron Man and Hulk films, but rather a film about advanced aliens, and detailing how that works - I would go so far as to say that Thor is the reason why Guardians has the freedom to back off on the exposition a little, because it introduced audiences to the larger cosmic Marvel Universe in a 'baby steps' fashion. Not to mention that Thor is explaining this stuff to a character who has been begging him to explain it for the last 30 minutes and is exactly the kind of person who would want to know about it.
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Aug 10, 2014 09:33
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Just got back from the movie... tons of fun. I can't figure out where this is supposed to be in the Marvel movie timeline? I tried googling for one .. mostly curious about what happened to the other two infinity stones that the collector had already collected, assuming this is after Thor 2
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Aug 10, 2014 09:36
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bouncyman posted:Just got back from the movie... tons of fun. I can't figure out where this is supposed to be in the Marvel movie timeline? I tried googling for one .. mostly curious about what happened to the other two infinity stones that the collector had already collected, assuming this is after Thor 2 I heard that the Collector hires Gamora very shortly after receiving the Aether.
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Aug 10, 2014 09:38
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GonSmithe posted:I literally can't believe multiple people have not only thought this, but actually have accounts on this forum and post about it on here. Um, okay? Neither of the scenes that absolutely disprove that theory happen until after that scene, so it's completely reasonable to make that connection? In fact, I'd be willing to bet that this was a completely intentional fake out. It would be extremely coincidental to use that angel imagery at only two points in the movie and you're giving the writers way too little credit if you think they didn't notice that, and the way he says "son" after that is just way too on the nose. It would also explain hard rear end space pirate Yondu's treatment of Quill throughout the movie a lot better than the explanation we get, that Quill just "has a scrote." By the end that's clearly not the case, but that scene totally made it seem that way for a moment. Plus everyone who has said that has only said they got that impression until the end of the scene when it's flat out disproved. Nobody is still trying to push that as a possible theory. Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:So are the Kree supposed to be space Native Americans or what's the deal with that? I don't read comics so I don't know the background but Ronan kept talking about getting revenge on Xandar for loving them over for a thousand years and he wears face paint so I kind of got that impression. Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cree Ronan is a religious fanatic and there's a bit where they criticize the rest of his race/religion for not doing more to stop/condemn his actions. The only way they could make the Muslim parallel more obvious would be to have Ronan's followers suicide bomb during the final battle... oh, wait, they totally do that. I suppose you could see Japanese influence between the kamikaze ships and his name/appearance, but I think the Muslim subtext is more supported. I'm sure you could make a decent SMG post about how Xandar is Israel and Ronan is a Palestinian.
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Aug 10, 2014 10:35
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In the comics, it's the Kree's sworn enemy the Skrulls who are the religious fanatics (one of the best Marvel comics was when Earth gods tried to stop the Skrull invasion by sending a group of gods led by Hercules to kill the Skrull gods, and they succeeded).
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Aug 10, 2014 10:41
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The MSJ posted:In the comics, it's the Kree's sworn enemy the Skrulls who are the religious fanatics (one of the best Marvel comics was when Earth gods tried to stop the Skrull invasion by sending a group of gods led by Hercules to kill the Skrull gods, and they succeeded). If they changed it specifically for the movie then I feel like that makes the Muslim parallel even stronger. And I guess they never actually mention religion, they just call him a "Kree-fanatic" but fanatic is usually associated with religious fanaticism, especially within the culture the movie was made by and targeted at.
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Aug 10, 2014 10:47
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mr. mephistopheles posted:If they changed it specifically for the movie then I feel like that makes the Muslim parallel even stronger. And I guess they never actually mention religion, they just call him a "Kree-fanatic" but fanatic is usually associated with religious fanaticism, especially within the culture the movie was made by and targeted at. On the other hand, he's ignoring interstellar (international) law, attacking cities from above using superior military force (he could even wipe out life with his superweapon), has support from religious supremacists and from a massive superpower (Thanos), and fighting against a bunch of outlaws (one of whom wants revenge for military action). Ronan is just as easily Israel/America. e: VVV Rocket dismisses the Nova Corps as 'fascists'. Civil and military authority are held by Nova Prime, who is explicitly identified as the leader of Xandar for the purposes of a peace treaty. Ronan's terrorist acts also may improve Xandar/Nova Corps, since he purges its most corrupt institution. What does it mean? Hell if I know. Although I do love the defensive barrier bit: if military strategy is indicative of culture and society, it tells a lot about Xandar. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 11:07
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Neither Ronan nor the film he appears in are allegorical. However, one character explicitly calls him a terrorist, he's acting independently of the state he stands for, the question of whether he has the tacit approval of that state is posed but left unresolved, his subordinates employ suicide bombing tactics against civilians, and his antipathy toward his intended victims is rooted in a very long history of bitter racial rivalry and warfare. Like all the MCU films, it draws on concepts that have become familiar in the world of the 21st-century west. I'm more interested in what this says about the Nova Empire, which is depicted as a relatively enlightened and righteous state. The main characters are criminal fugitives, but they all come to agree that the government on Xandar can be trusted to keep the Infinity Gem in their vault, neither using it nor allowing it to be stolen (n.b. obviously Thanos will steal it). They also decide to pardon the film's protagonists with nothing more than an admonition to stop doing crimes, such as theft and murder. The guards of the prison in which they're incarcerated are specifically called unusual for their cruelty towards prisoners. The Nova Corps themselves take on a strictly and very literally defensive role, forming a barrier to prevent Ronan's ship from landing on the surface - a marked contrast to Iron Man and Captain America, who often use their ostensibly defensive tools (armor and a shield, respectively) as offensive weapons. And it would have been sufficient to defend the planet, were it not for the Infinity Gem itself.
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Aug 10, 2014 11:44
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I love that Lee Pace plays a character who ultimately has the power to kill people pretty much by touching them.
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Aug 10, 2014 12:08
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The Pie Maker finally snapped after one too many evenings without his girlfriend.
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Aug 10, 2014 12:23
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Should have given the Thanos role to Lee Pace. Then Anna Friel can be Death.
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Aug 10, 2014 12:39
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The MSJ posted:Should have given the Thanos role to Lee Pace. Then Anna Friel can be Death. I know this is a reference to that amazing show, but I first misread this Anna Ferris, and now I want this to happen. Anna Ferris. Death. Do it Marvel.
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Aug 10, 2014 12:42
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Guardians of the Galaxy 2, wherein Peter Quill braid's Death's hair.
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Aug 10, 2014 13:10
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There's really no parallels to anything -- he's "fanatic" for a religion about whose beliefs we are told literally nothing, not even that it's a religion at all, and he hates the Xandar because he hates them, which we know because he tells us. Ronan's total lack of backstory or motivation is the weakest link in an otherwise very solid action movie. It's a real stretch to call him symbolic of anything since he has no content with which to draw analogies.
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Aug 10, 2014 13:36
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:e: VVV Rocket dismisses the Nova Corps as 'fascists'
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Aug 10, 2014 13:46
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Man, I really want to make an Awesome Mix Vol. 1 now. Quick, how do you put digital music on a cassette tape?
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Aug 10, 2014 13:47
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:e: VVV Rocket dismisses the Nova Corps as 'fascists'. Civil and military authority are held by Nova Prime, who is explicitly identified as the leader of Xandar for the purposes of a peace treaty. Ronan's terrorist acts also may improve Xandar/Nova Corps, since he purges its most corrupt institution. Please don't edit in replies to posts below yours. I would not have seen this if someone else had not quoted it. Nova Prime just seems to be the head of state, and we don't see much about the structure of their government. The capital planet seems well-administered (it's always brightly-lit, and the parts we see of it are clean, spacious, and easily evacuated in an emergency) and it has several high-security prisons from which Rocket has escaped. It is significant, however, that the Nova Corps actually heed Star-Lord's warning about the impending attack on Xandar - even though it doesn't come from the most reputable source. I think it's clear Rocket was using "fascist" as an epithet against authority generally, not in the more specific descriptive sense. I don't understand what you mean about Ronan purging the "most corrupt institution," though.
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Aug 10, 2014 14:03
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He's referring to the fact that Rocket calls the Nova Corpsmen who man the Kyln (the space jail) "the most corrupt in the galaxy". Of course, he also calls the Nova Corps itself a fascist government, so who knows what the actual state of affairs at the Kyln was before Ronan (presumably) killed everyone there? Edit: sp jng2058 fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 14:16
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Steve Yun posted:Just returned from watching it. It was pretty good, but I didn't feel blown away by it like a lot of other people did. Felt like the movie was a little too proud of its jokes, which were mostly tepid. Nah they were pretty funny.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:02
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I felt like the whole movie was a kids movie that was trying and failing to pass as a movie that adults could enjoy as well. The jokes were mostly unfunny and the action was too watered down.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:03
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Sounds like it just failed you though, not adults as a whole.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:09
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NavyBlue posted:I felt like the whole movie was a kids movie that was trying and failing to pass as a movie that adults could enjoy as well. The jokes were mostly unfunny and the action was too watered down. What the gently caress kind of kids do you know.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:18
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The Dave posted:Sounds like it just failed you though, not adults as a whole. Yeah this, the movie has a 92% favorable rating on Rotten Tomatoes and an 8.8 on IMDB. I don't think many kids write movie reviews.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:23
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First Bass posted:Guardians of the Galaxy 2, wherein Peter Quill braid's Death's hair. Now I want Aubrey Plaza as Death.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:30
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Quill's mother says "your father was a being...composed of pure light" she sort of hesitates before saying it. She totally got space cancer from a glowy space dude.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:32
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Captain Mog posted:Yeah this, the movie has a 92% favorable rating on Rotten Tomatoes and an 8.8 on IMDB. I don't think many kids write movie reviews. [Insert Manchildren joke here]
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Aug 10, 2014 17:04
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Um, okay? Neither of the scenes that absolutely disprove that theory happen until after that scene, so it's completely reasonable to make that connection? Yeah I saw the Islamic parallels as well, I just got hung up on the name Kree and thought I'd ask where people would know more about the comic background than me.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:46
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:Yeah I saw the Islamic parallels as well, I just got hung up on the name Kree and thought I'd ask where people would know more about the comic background than me. As far as I can tell you, the name thing is a coincidence. The Kree are pretty fascist in the comics, your usual hyper-militarist, expansive empire, ruled by a artificial intelligence represented by a really big head, with Ronan being kind of a Judge Dredd like character, who judges and executes people.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:02
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e X posted:As far as I can tell you, the name thing is a coincidence. The Kree are pretty fascist in the comics, your usual hyper-militarist, expansive empire, ruled by a artificial intelligence represented by a really big head, with Ronan being kind of a Judge Dredd like character, who judges and executes people. Cool, thanks. I'll drop it. This movie was really fun although I agree with the criticisms about villains not really getting fleshed out. There was also some clunky exposition dumping but I can see how that's hard to avoid with this type of movie while still keeping it to a reasonable runtime. Alfred P. Pseudonym fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 18:08
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Ronan could also be compared to some of the post-WWII Japanese nationalists who wanted to restore Imperial militarism- though they were mostly an internal problem for Japan and didn't try to attack Washington D.C. or whatever.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:13
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Um, okay? Neither of the scenes that absolutely disprove that theory happen until after that scene, so it's completely reasonable to make that connection? At the beginning of the movie, when Yondu is on Morag with his crew, one of the crewmates says "We should have delivered him like we were paid to do, HE WAS CARGO." It's within the first 15 minutes, and entirely disproves any reason you have to believe Yondu is his dad.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:32
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Ronan's a big blue bulletproof Klingon at least a couple degrees removed from any direct political allegory, he's Stock Villain #26. I just thought the native American connection was even more tenuous than most since he fits essentially no NA imagery or stereotype aside from I guess 'dad killed by the space whiteys'. Also his name is funny
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Aug 10, 2014 18:33
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He also wears warpaint! And leads an army of technozombies?
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Aug 10, 2014 18:55
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Sometimes I do wonder how exactly it was determined what characters belong to what IP. I just read Ronan's wikipedia page to double check a few things and he made his first appearance in a Fantastic Four comic.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:57
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:Ronan's a big blue bulletproof Klingon at least a couple degrees removed from any direct political allegory, he's Stock Villain #26. I dunno, the fanatical zealot aspect stuck out to enough people that several people brought up the middle-eastern terrorist thing. On top of that the infinity stones are a sort of stand-in for nuclear weapons; weapons of mass destruction, haven't been used in a long time, there's debate over who should have them, etc. There's something there in the subtext, even if it's not particularly new or challenging.
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Aug 10, 2014 19:19
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GonSmithe posted:At the beginning of the movie, when Yondu is on Morag with his crew, one of the crewmates says "We should have delivered him like we were paid to do, HE WAS CARGO." It's within the first 15 minutes, and entirely disproves any reason you have to believe Yondu is his dad. You have no idea why they were delivering him at that point. It could have been for literally any reason.
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Aug 10, 2014 19:25
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mr. mephistopheles posted:You have no idea why they were delivering him at that point. It could have been for literally any reason. Given that this occurs a few minutes after his dead mom's 'when your daddy comes to get you' bit I think people could reasonably draw the conclusion that the space pirates were not on a mission to abduct any old random Earth kid for the space zoo It wasn't as super incredibly blatant from the start as people are making out but spacedad was definitely well foreshadowed. Steve Yun posted:I dunno, the fanatical zealot aspect stuck out to enough people that several people brought up the middle-eastern terrorist thing. Sure I guess but 'madman with a doomsday weapon' is a sci-fi staple that I'm pretty sure predates nuclear weapons entirely - not to say it doesn't have new currency and relevance now to some extent, just that this wasn't a THE PURPLE ROCK IS A METAPHOR FOR NORTH KOREA'S BALLISTIC MISSILE PROGRAM kinda movie. That pulp supervillains and Osama bin Laden share traits is possibly an example of convergent evolution Tubgirl Cosplay fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 19:30
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I just got back from the new Ninja Turtles movie. Thematically it is exactly the same movie as this, and putting them side by side shows perfect examples of how to do a movie about family coming together and how not to do it. And of how to do a movie that both kids and adults can enjoy without talking down to either group, and how to...well, how to make a 2 hour long toy/pizza/orange crush commercial that is insulting to everyone in the audience.
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Aug 10, 2014 19:35
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:Given that this occurs a few minutes after his dead mom's 'when your daddy comes to get you' bit I think people could reasonably draw the conclusion that the space pirates were not on a mission to abduct any old random Earth kid for the space zoo I agree, but Yondu could have easily been foreshadowed spacedad to anyone not familiar with the comics or character origin. I really don't see how anyone could claim the angel imagery used in those two specific scenes was just an accident.
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Aug 10, 2014 19:40
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