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Zeppelin Insanity posted:This dealership talk feels insanely predatory. I'm currently an intern at a car dealership, in Poland. The prices are very clearly marked. No one ever talks in monthly payment terms, it's all full price. When a client asks, they get told the full price. When my last car got wrecked and I needed a new car in short order, I'm glad I paid more money than I wanted to spend on a used car I didn't even like from a family member who was trying to sell it, just so I could avoid dealing with a used car dealership. At least now I know enough about cars and financing to handle myself in a dealership, but a year ago I would've been loving eaten alive by the salespeople and their tricks, even knowing that they can't be trusted. I was talking with a buddy of mine yesterday, and he said he had to walk out of one dealership because the salesman refused to give him the total price of the car. He just kept repeating "Oh don't worry about that, it's not important. Look at how low your monthly payments are!"
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Aug 10, 2014 11:45
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:This dealership talk feels insanely predatory. I'm currently an intern at a car dealership, in Poland. The prices are very clearly marked. No one ever talks in monthly payment terms, it's all full price. When a client asks, they get told the full price. At a certain point people need to actually pay attention to what they're signing. On mine I had a total line item that included interest, and even if it didn't you know the monthly payment and the term. Like maybe super small subprime lender shops hide it a little better, but probably not because apparently nobody reads the thing anyway.
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Aug 10, 2014 13:48
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Harry posted:At a certain point people need to actually pay attention to what they're signing. On mine I had a total line item that included interest, and even if it didn't you know the monthly payment and the term. Like maybe super small subprime lender shops hide it a little better, but probably not because apparently nobody reads the thing anyway. Its a cultural thing. A car is freedom, and all the small print doesn't matter. I have people call me daily who say they cancelled their insurance because their car got taken away like the one before. THIS one isn't going to be taken away, no sir! As long as they hit the monthly payment.
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Aug 10, 2014 14:02
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Renegret posted:When my last car got wrecked and I needed a new car in short order, I'm glad I paid more money than I wanted to spend on a used car I didn't even like from a family member who was trying to sell it, just so I could avoid dealing with a used car dealership. Take a look at auto brokers if you're a pushover but know what you want. They'll negotiate for you, and take a percentage of whatever they get under the expected sale value of the car. Also, if you want to buy a  NEW CAR, consumer reports has a fleet vehicle purchasing setup with major dealers, which was a huge, huge help when purchasing our minivan.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:20
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Volmarias posted:
You've spoken the forbidden words, what have you done.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:35
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ranbo das posted:You've spoken the forbidden words, what have you done. It's ok, you have to add "Lease" to those words to wake up the BFCeast.
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Aug 10, 2014 15:37
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There are good leases these days. AWAKEN
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Aug 10, 2014 16:37
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Knightmare posted:There are good leases these days. What have you done?! 
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Aug 10, 2014 16:38
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Hang on, I'll fix it! So if my expenses are $2000 a month, can I retire on $800k?
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Aug 10, 2014 16:40
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Knightmare posted:There are good leases these days. Especially when you factor in the no headache quality of life factor. welp, BYE!
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Aug 10, 2014 17:00
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Aristotle Animes posted:Especially when you factor in the no headache quality of life factor. That has no monetary value and should not be taken into consideration, quality of life is second to FI which is the white whale holy grail.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:09
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Having children is financially irresponsible and the people that do it are monsters worse than Hilter.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:15
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MickeyFinn posted:Having children is financially irresponsible and the people that do it are monsters worse than Hilter. You can't put a price on that though, if your values are different you should umpfurghfadasdssdsdsds
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Aug 10, 2014 17:17
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MickeyFinn posted:Having children is financially irresponsible and the people that do it are monsters worse than Hilter. How else am I supposed to get all the farm work done? 
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Aug 10, 2014 17:23
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MickeyFinn posted:Having children is financially irresponsible and the people that do it are monsters worse than Hilter. Padding in the emergency fund? College funds? TOYS??!? It's no wonder people load them into the car and drive it into a lake. Kids are the death of your 401k.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:28
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Aristotle Animes posted:It's no wonder people load them into the car and drive it into a lake. This is why you get comprehensive insurance.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:29
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Keetron posted:That has no monetary value and should not be taken into consideration, quality of life is second to FI which is the white whale holy grail. Why do all my bookmarked threads end up in sperm whale chat? It's like Godwin's Law, but Godfin's Law instead.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:29
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Why are leases inherently bad?
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Aug 10, 2014 18:07
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Jastiger posted:Why are leases inherently bad? They aren't inherently bad, but for newbie finance and for people trying to get a hold of their finances/debts they aren't really very good. Which of course naturally gets taken to mean "LEASES ARE TERRIBLE ALWAYS".
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Aug 10, 2014 18:23
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Guinness posted:Which of course naturally gets taken to mean "LEASES ARE TERRIBLE ALWAYS". Unless you're a corporation or adopting very un-BFC behavior (E.g. getting new cars very often), yeah, they're pretty bad.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:27
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In a thread titled "Tell us stories about people bad with money," leases are always bad. 
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Aug 10, 2014 18:27
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Jastiger posted:Why are leases inherently bad? Well, here's some expert advice on why leasing is a great option: http://www.kiplinger.com/article/cars/T009-C004-S001-five-myths-about-leasing-a-car.html Article posted:Say you negotiate to buy a 2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 S (sticker price: $23,365) for invoice price -- $21,403 -- with 10% down and a five-year loan at 2.9%. But after three years you decide you want a new car. If you trade in the Altima, you will likely get about 46% of the sticker price, or $10,621 (the resale value after three years, according to the Kelley Blue Book). Then you'll have to pay off the loan. Figure your total out-of-pocket cost will be $9,525. So yeah, if you like getting new cars for no reason, it might be a good idea. That might be the only justification.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:31
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Leases - pay for less than half of its MSRP, no responsibility for repairs, 36,000 mile limit, return it after 3 years Owning New - pay for all of its MSRP, full responsibility for repairs, it should last 100,000 miles before making GBS threads the bed Owning Used - pay for whatever it's worth based on mileage/condition, full responsibility for repairs, could die in a week or in 10 years depending on how much money you drain into it I think regardless of whatever option you choose (unless you get suckered into a 2-year lease - don't do that), it's pretty much a wash on what you're going to spend over your lifetime on cars. Until cheaper cars become available, we're all hosed.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:45
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If you pay MSRP for a car (Don't do this) then drive it for 10 years, you'll come up way ahead of the guy who's paying half MSRP for a car every three years. After 9 years, that guy's paid 150% MSRP, you've paid 100% (Plus maintenance), and you still have a car. Leasing would make sense if the average car had a service life of three years, modern cars should be good for 10+ years.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:50
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Reddit continues to be a goldmine. The stock market is doing really well right?  quote:You bought 10 shares of BONE, which was trading at $0.63. You paid a $10 commission on that trade, costing you $16.30.
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Aug 10, 2014 19:10
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I thought that was from some kind of stock market Oregon Trail style game. But no it's really a thing that happened.
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Aug 10, 2014 19:27
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I was actually convinced by someone in BFC to lease my last car. The key factor is that... EugeneJ posted:return it after 3 years This part is optional. I agreed to pay for about half the price of the vehicle over 3 years. At the end of those 3 years, I can choose whether or not I want to pay for the other half of the vehicle and keep it. If the particular vehicle model I chose depreciates badly, and it's worth less than the residual value, I can just walk away, and I end up better off than if I'd bought it. If it keeps value well, then I buy it and keep it, no worse off than if I'd bought it in the first place. In other words, you can think of it as a 3/3 adjustable rate loan, with the option to get out of it for free half way through if you're upside down.
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Aug 10, 2014 19:58
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Care to extoll the financial virtues of rent-to-own furniture as well?
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Aug 10, 2014 21:41
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TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT posted:Reddit continues to be a goldmine. The stock market is doing really well right? The link in that thread to the kid who borrowed $100k @ 8% to bet on the Facebook ER, doubled it, then lost it all. Just wow. http://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/1x754v/kid_borrows_100k_with_8_interest_wins_on_fb_er/
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Aug 10, 2014 21:51
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Wallstreetbets is a great subreddit. It's nearly dead now due to everyone buying into NQ which went from 20 to like 4 in 3 months.
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Aug 10, 2014 22:06
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Aristotle Animes posted:Care to extoll the financial virtues of rent-to-own furniture as well? I hope this is hyperbole. If not, is this one of the BFC that appears when you mention leases?
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Aug 10, 2014 22:17
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Lowness 72 posted:I hope this is hyperbole. If not, is this one of the BFC No, rent-to-own is uncontroversial. Everyone agrees it's stupid as gently caress.
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Aug 11, 2014 00:27
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What are you talking about? If the couch isn't worth what you've got out of it for a price you could fetch on CL, then you get them to haul it away and get a brand new couch! There isn't a way to lose here!
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Aug 11, 2014 01:03
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Aristotle Animes posted:What are you talking about? If the couch isn't worth what you've got out of it for a price you could fetch on CL, then you get them to haul it away and get a brand new couch! There isn't a way to lose here! Plus, Hulk Hogan and Troy Aikman said that I could stop paying whenever I want! Try that with furniture you bought outright!
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Aug 11, 2014 01:17
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.Z. posted:The link in that thread to the kid who borrowed $100k @ 8% to bet on the Facebook ER, doubled it, then lost it all. Just wow. The guy's subtitle is, "I'm a day trader with just enough knowledge to be dangerous." Dangerous only to himself, apparently. 
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Aug 11, 2014 01:18
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Guinness posted:They aren't inherently bad, but for newbie finance and for people trying to get a hold of their finances/debts they aren't really very good. There was also a time period on the 90's when leases were just terrible. Even fairly established dealers put some seriously bullshit terms in them and then pressure sold them. You seriously could not go to a dealership without them trying to change the sale into a lease. At the time, it sounded a lot like the stories you'd get from people who took free Disney tickets in exchange for listening to a time share pitch. That behavior kinda poisoned the well on leases for a lot of people.
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Aug 11, 2014 13:25
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EugeneJ posted:Owning New - pay for all of its MSRP, full responsibility for repairs, it should last 100,000 miles before making GBS threads the bed It's 2014 dude, cars are broken in at 100,000. Car milage in general is a stupid wear signifier. Age is the deciding factor. I drive almost all highways and my Fusion turned 2 last month. I just hit 70,000 this week. Not a single issue, in fact it still looks like it's garage kept with 15,000. With basic car repair knowledge you can and should keep a car on the road no matter the milage for at least 10 years. I've had a '94 corolla which I got rid of after 15 years with 278,000, sold and continued to run until it was totaled in an accident. 2000 Pontiac Sunfire which lived to 10 years at 286,000, sold and continued to run until owner didn't want to fix leaky radiator. 2001 Pontiac Grand-Am which lived 11 years at 312,000, sold to carmax, scrapped. and currently have a 2001 Silverado 1500 at 356,000 2010 Fusion at 77,000 2012 Fusion at 70,000 I average 33,000 a year and plan to keep this car for 10 years and 350,000.
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Aug 11, 2014 15:53
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I think he's saying 100K as the minimum to expect conservativly...at least that's how I read it.
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Aug 11, 2014 16:08
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I've never bought a car before and I'm a mid twenties professional. All this cartalk sounds confusing. How would I even shop for a car anyway? I'm smart enough to understand that salesmen will keep hounding me what I want to pay per month so they can charge me up with interest vs just telling me the total cost but that's about it. I always thought cars were 30,000$+ ordeals. What are these nice 10-15000$ nice cars? (Disclaimer: I know gently caress all about cars, seriously. Ask me who makes an Altima and I couldn't tell you (well I can but only because a close friend has one but you get my point))
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Aug 11, 2014 16:35
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Boris Galerkin posted:I've never bought a car before and I'm a mid twenties professional. All this cartalk sounds confusing. How would I even shop for a car anyway? I'm smart enough to understand that salesmen will keep hounding me what I want to pay per month so they can charge me up with interest vs just telling me the total cost but that's about it. I always thought cars were 30,000$+ ordeals. What are these nice 10-15000$ nice cars? ConsumerReports.org I think is a great place to start researching cars if you don't know much, or even if you do.
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Aug 11, 2014 16:37
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