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Socrates16 posted:I'm asking a simple question. Socrates16 posted:Would you all support government regulation of SA, then? Socrates16 posted:But I mean with government regulators instead of mods. The website would be on servers like the ACA exchanges. Socrates16 posted:Would SA be better if it was directly run by government? Hey guys, would you still think the site would be good if it was run by the government, and the government was Hitler, and posting was regulated by the lunar cycle? It's a simple question, yes or no.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:18
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Socrates16 posted:Government no longer stealing from them would be a start. Food price floors and various tariffs make food much more expensive and unhealthy, which leads to even more expensive health issues. Inflation takes away poor people's purchasing power, patent and copyright prevent lower cost alternatives to technology. Government steals the loaf of bread and then gives back the crumbs. It makes me sick. lol
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Aug 11, 2014 06:19
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Socrates16 posted:I'm asking a simple question. Would SA be better if it was directly run by government? Well if I compare the private run healthcare I got in the USA vs the government run one I got in Canada, I'd say hand those servers over to Uncle Sam, Lowtax!
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Aug 11, 2014 06:20
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Guys, don't you think poverty would solve itself if we just let people do whatever the gently caress they want? This haldol is amaaaazing
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Aug 11, 2014 06:20
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Now if Socrates16 instead meant that local governments were criminalizing poverty and imprisoning unreasonably large numbers of people to enrich their friends in the prison system, I might agree!
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Aug 11, 2014 06:21
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Actually thinking of TCC, I'm changing my vote to yes. SA would be better if the government ran it because then the DEA would at least close the heroin thread.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:22
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DrProsek posted:Well if I compare the private run healthcare I got in the USA vs the government run one I got in Canada, I'd say hand those servers over to Uncle Sam, Lowtax! Lol at US healthcare being private.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:22
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StandardVC10 posted:Now if Socrates16 instead meant that local governments were criminalizing poverty and imprisoning unreasonably large numbers of people to enrich their friends in the prison system, I might agree! Not to mention throwing people into cages for owning a plant.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:23
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Socrates16 posted:Lol at US healthcare being private. 
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Aug 11, 2014 06:24
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Socrates16 posted:Lol at US healthcare being private. Well the bad parts of it are the parts that private, if the government funded healthcare for senators applied to everyone it would be better, but still worse than single payer:)
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Aug 11, 2014 06:26
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I like how thinking a government is a good idea means that everything must be run by the government. Even the most hardcore socialist would think having the government run something like SA directly would be retarded.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:27
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Socrates16 posted:Government no longer stealing from them would be a start. Food price floors and various tariffs make food much more expensive and unhealthy, which leads to even more expensive health issues. Inflation takes away poor people's purchasing power, patent and copyright prevent lower cost alternatives to technology. Government steals the loaf of bread and then gives back the crumbs. It makes me sick. Couldn't we just...adjust the tax burden to be more progressive? Oh that's right we can't, that's anathema to the centrist consensus, because the child-minded toy philosopher in your avatar and his co-sycophants used Ronald Reagan to infiltrate the government and infect it with a suicide virus. Sorry poor family, I guess you'll keep having to pay onerous federal, state and local taxes, all because untrammeled wealth must prosper. Murray Rothbard and his ilk, standing over the corpse of the New Deal squeaking "there's still some air in its lungs! Stamp it out!" and Ronald Reagan saluting him because he forgot what year it is and thought he was still shooting movies for the Army.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:29
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Socrates16 posted:I'm asking a simple question. Would SA be better if it was directly run by government? All right, then, smartypants, how do you think it would be different? E: And please, answer without using cliches. Direct answers only.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:30
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No matter how unracist I am, I can't seem to write as many articles about farm subsidies as I do about blacks on welfare! They just keep tumbling out!
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Aug 11, 2014 06:30
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SedanChair posted:Couldn't we just...adjust the tax burden to be more progressive? Oh that's right we can't, that's anathema to the centrist consensus, because the child-minded toy philosopher in your avatar and his co-sycophants used Ronald Reagan to infiltrate the government and infect it with a suicide virus. Sorry poor family, I guess you'll keep having to pay onerous federal, state and local taxes, all because untrammeled wealth must prosper. Ronald Reagan ballooned fedgov spending. Personally, I think tax rates are irrelevant on a federal level because of the government's printing press and small government folks are not focusing on the important issues by talking about it, but that's kind of a complicated issue that is a bit O/T.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:34
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Socrates16 posted:Ronald Reagan ballooned fedgov spending. Personally, I think tax rates are irrelevant on a federal level because of the government's printing press and small government folks are not focusing on the important issues by talking about it, but that's kind of a complicated issue that is a bit O/T. How would SA be different if it were run by the government?
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Aug 11, 2014 06:38
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Governments are inefficient, because bureaucracy, but private companies are efficient, because bureaucracy.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:39
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Somfin posted:All right, then, smartypants, how do you think it would be different? Their incentives would be warped. Their priority would probably be keeping SA more family friendly. They would probably make it more simplified so it would be easier for them to mod. They(presumably) wouldn't have years of experience on the boards understanding the members and how things work around here. Assuming they had arrest powers, some jerk regulator could go on a power trip and arrest a goon.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:39
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Somfin posted:How would SA be different if it were run by the government? tbh it would probably be better run than under Dear Leader as it is
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Aug 11, 2014 06:40
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Socrates16 posted:Ronald Reagan ballooned fedgov spending. Personally, I think tax rates are irrelevant on a federal level because of the government's printing press and small government folks are not focusing on the important issues by talking about it, but that's kind of a complicated issue that is a bit O/T. Inflation is quite low right now, and that's actually how our economy works best. Am I going to have to repeat this every page?
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Aug 11, 2014 06:42
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Out of curiosity, is it just me and jrodefeld that are libertarians in Debate and Discussion as far as you all know? I don't think I've ever seen another. I've poked my head in here from time to time but never posted until I saw this thread. Ancaps are all over facebook so its a bit of a shock being in a forum without more than a few.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:43
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Socrates16 posted:Personally, I think it's adorable that you all think that the state helps poor people more than it steals from them. Keep dodging the point. In modern economies children are a net cost instead of a net gain. Until very recently child labor was very economically valuable and enriched the parents because we were agrarian and children simultaneously learned their trade while working for nothing more than food and shelter on their parents farm. Furthermore, the eldest male child would inherent the parents farm if and only if he was a good son and took care of his parents in their old age. Otherwise a more devoted son/in law would get the farm. So children were also a 401K and social security all rolled up into one. In an agrarian economy there is no need for a central organizing body within a society to incentivize human reproduction. In an industrial economy there is a need for it. Children cost an arm and a leg and don't necessarily pay any of it back. Between house, car, and college they are to busy paying off their own creditors to pay back their parents. Interest in being a parent has predictably fallen dramatically for both women and men in post-industrial economies and our birth rates have tanked. Industrialization has created many challenges such as this one that require a state to address. Having a state doesn't mean you'll address it. States are tools, not magic totems. But you definitely won't solve them non-violently without a state. And if you solve them violently you still have a state. You. The violent person using force to successfully make people do what you want. You're the state.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:44
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The privately run self-regulation of SA expels such elements. (An Caps and Libertarians)
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Aug 11, 2014 06:44
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Socrates16 posted:Out of curiosity, is it just me and jrodefeld that are libertarians in Debate and Discussion as far as you all know? I don't think I've ever seen another. I've poked my head in here from time to time but never posted until I saw this thread. Ancaps are all over facebook so its a bit of a shock being in a forum without more than a few. 10 years ago this forum was nothing but, do you want to guess what happened?
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Aug 11, 2014 06:45
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Socrates16 posted:Out of curiosity, is it just me and jrodefeld that are libertarians in Debate and Discussion as far as you all know? I don't think I've ever seen another. I've poked my head in here from time to time but never posted until I saw this thread. Ancaps are all over facebook so its a bit of a shock being in a forum without more than a few. Pretty sure you're the only one, yes. SA used to have a lot of libertarians is my understanding, but most of them grew up and became leftists.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:45
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Doesn't matter, government is a priori bad according to libertarians. Real world evidence be damned. You have to remember that "Their incentives are warped" are coming from people who justify pure greed as the only valid human desire/emotion.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:45
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StandardVC10 posted:Inflation is quite low right now, and that's actually how our economy works best. Am I going to have to repeat this every page? I use a definition of inflation you probably don't. My bad, that's confusing. To an Austrian, inflation is simply money printing. What you're talking about is what I call price inflation.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:45
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Uh oh Socrates has pointed out that our government is flawed, welp better abolish all laws forever guys!
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Aug 11, 2014 06:46
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McAlister posted:Keep dodging the point. You're a very rare breed. Most statists are worried population control, not the need grow or maintain the population.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:47
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rudatron posted:Doesn't matter, government is a priori bad according to libertarians. Real world evidence be damned. Nobody in government is ever greedy.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:48
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I use a definition of a thing that is good you probably don't. My bad, that's confusing. To an Austrian, a thing that is good is simply the free market. What you're talking about is a thing that is bad.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:51
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Socrates16 posted:Nobody in government is ever greedy. But being greedy is not a requirement of being in government, and flawed though it is, at least current western democracies give at least some power to the people. Edit: God drat this thread moves fast. I am trying to write an effortpost/not-shitpost but I keep needing to refresh the page.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:51
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Hey all, I've got an early flight that I've already stayed up too late for, so I'm off to bed. I'll be really busy this week so I'll be MIA from this thread until next weekend, try not to miss me too much! haha
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Aug 11, 2014 06:51
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Socrates16 posted:Their incentives would be warped. Their priority would probably be keeping SA more family friendly. They would probably make it more simplified so it would be easier for them to mod. They(presumably) wouldn't have years of experience on the boards understanding the members and how things work around here. Assuming they had arrest powers, some jerk regulator could go on a power trip and arrest a goon. I'm gonna break this response up. Their incentives would be warped. Warped how? Their priority would probably be keeping SA more family friendly. Why the hell would they do that? That's something that private companies who want to target families and children do. They would make it more simplified so it would be easier for them to mod. Wait are you saying that a wasteful bureaucratic government would make things simpler? They wouldn't have years of experience... Have you met a government employee? They know all the ways around the system, they know all the customers. Also, well done moving the goalposts to make this a government takeover rather than the government having always run SA. Assuming they had arrest powers, some jerk regulator could go on a power trip and arrest a goon. You think that goons are protected by some form of anonymity on here? This is your worst-case scenario? A simpler, easier-to-use site with somewhat subtler 9/11 references in its photoshop contests, with a new staff of moderators (none of which would be Aatrek) able to come down harder on idiots, and undefined 'warped incentives?' Right now, the site's 'incentive' is to make money. That's why you paid five bucks for your spangly new avatar, rather than getting it for free. You're gonna need to work harder to scare me, Socrates16.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:53
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Socrates16 posted:Nobody in government is ever greedy. The idea is that flawed though democracy might be at least the people have some measure of control over the government through voting.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:53
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Socrates16 posted:Nobody in government is ever greedy.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:53
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Anarchism is not as bad as some claim, but is certainly not helped by the pompous empty words of capitalists and their fanboys claiming to be appalled by force while arguing that nonviolent resistance is aggressive force and sending squads of goons to deal with it is proportional and defensive.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:56
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"Government takes the loaf from poor people and shoves them back breadcrumbs", therefore let's all embrace an ideology which entails burning it all to the ground so that the power void can be filled by super-rich people who would gladly take the loaf and much more from the poors, and maybe throw a spitball or "I worked hard to get where I am so why can't you  " back at them
Jerry Manderbilt fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Aug 11, 2014 |
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Aug 11, 2014 06:56
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Can I just say as someone who pretty obviously and openly works for goverment the fact that these heroes of rational discourse can't seem to acknowlege my existence hurts my feelings and I think I might cry about it.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:56
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Socrates16 posted:I use a definition of inflation you probably don't. My bad, that's confusing. To an Austrian, inflation is simply money printing. What you're talking about is what I call price inflation. Then since we're not on a metal backed currency anymore, inflation no longer exists as Austrians know it, QED ya'll need to shut the gently caress up about inflation.
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Aug 11, 2014 06:57
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