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paragon1 posted:No I haven't! Please tell us all about it, in this, the Not Talking About J-Rod or His Ideas thread! It's literally about a Road Warrior economy, so it sounded up your alley.
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Aug 12, 2014 07:47
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paragon1 posted:I propose we fix this through Dispute Inducement Organizations, who will seek to help people homicidally hate each other for a nominal fee. They'll do things like drug the water supply and play bad music really loudly. You mean "rebellious teenagers"? poo poo, nobody told me I could get PAID to be that when I was entering that age! gently caress man I could have been a contender. I was such an obnoxious little gently caress, so cocksure of himself at all times, so belligerent (granted part of this was because I got the luxury of being a guinea pig for various at-the-time experimental mood drugs like Prozac and Ritalin, but I can only blame those so much), I could have made MONEY being that! It sounds so promising on paper, doesn't it? "Be a pain in the rear end, get paid. Be something someone wants and/or needs at this point in time and you can be paid well for it!" That, I think, is the biggest draw of libertarianism in these days. The endless promise (as it is written in papers and forum posts, and spewed out by hardcore libertarian speakers) that no matter what you can not only make money and live comfortably, you can do so in such a fashion that allows you to push your ideology on others. Hell of a draw in a painful recession economy. Small wonder that we see their numbers, and the numbers of groups like the SovCits, slowly growing as people become more desperate and grasping at straws for some kind of hope. The promise of everything but without the pesky demands of religious organization or the droning of men standing behind podiums.
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Aug 12, 2014 07:51
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Bifauxnen posted:It's literally about a Road Warrior economy, so it sounded up your alley. Actually I kinda wanna hear what you've got to say on this in all seriousness, I think I'm one of the few people who actually liked the economic challenges and potential principles that were presented in the Mad Max series. Tell us my dear goon- who rules Barter Town?
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Aug 12, 2014 07:53
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Um, I know admitting this makes me a total failure as an Australian, but I've never even watched Mad Max so I don't actually know what you're talking about.
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Aug 12, 2014 07:57
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Bifauxnen posted:Um, I know admitting this makes me a total failure as an Australian, but I've never even watched Mad Max so I don't actually know what you're talking about. Step 1: Watch every Mad Max film. Step 2: Win. 
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Aug 12, 2014 08:02
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Topical:quote:Africa's Government is socialist and takes from the people to benefit large corporations, if we had a real free market in Africa things would not turn out that way and I would be glad to help children that are suffering due to the cruelty of a statist society.
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Aug 12, 2014 08:09
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Waaaah the Christians are out to get me
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Source your quotes so I know who I'm laughing at. I've thought of another benefit of the Road Warrior Economy: You don't have to worry about getting your kids into a good school. Life is their school now!
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Aug 12, 2014 08:28
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Maybe what we need is just one person to engage jrod, we all discuss the problems with his libertarian ideas and then we have a single messenger who sends a single pressing issue via PM to jrod. And then that messenger posts jrod's reply in the thread and we repeat the process. That way there are no distractions. I know that this will never work because jrod would just never reply to legitimate problems and would instead just go on a tirade about how DR RON PAUL isn't a racist but I thought it was a cool idea
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Aug 12, 2014 08:52
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QuarkJets posted:Maybe what we need is just one person to engage jrod, we all discuss the problems with his libertarian ideas and then we have a single messenger who sends a single pressing issue via PM to jrod. And then that messenger posts jrod's reply in the thread and we repeat the process. That way there are no distractions. this system would never work because jrod wouldn't actually behave rationally. much like libertarianism.
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Aug 12, 2014 08:54
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That sounds like collectivism to me. Cease your acts of aggression or I'll have to respond with equal force
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Aug 12, 2014 09:14
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Cercadelmar posted:That sounds like collectivism to me. Cease your acts of aggression or I'll have to respond with equal force A true Libertarian would weigh the cost of being 'that guy who hurts people' against the cost of having to have literally any contact with future intruders, and break all of the limbs of the first intruder, pre-emptively claiming that the intruder threatened them with a deadly weapon. After all, if free market principles work for law, why not for human interactions?
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Aug 12, 2014 09:48
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How about an Ultimate Warrior economy, instead of a Road Warrior economy?
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Aug 12, 2014 13:02
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:How about an Ultimate Warrior economy, instead of a Road Warrior economy? Ultimate Warrior hated homosexuals and Muslims, so it'd be a true libertarian paradise.
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Aug 12, 2014 13:31
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Aug 12, 2014 13:43
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Still more coherent than anything Molyneux and Rothbard have written.
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Aug 12, 2014 13:48
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Jrod, if a man is trespassing and my foke* is heightened with jet jack*am I justified in going Ultimate Warrior on their asses? Don't bother, the answer is yes. *these are real words from the Warrior comic
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Aug 12, 2014 13:51
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CrazyTolradi posted:Jrod, what's to stop me from using the river my plot of land is on as a toilet, dumping all my human waste into its waters. Then I decide, screw paying my monthly dumping fees to the local garbage disposal company, I'll just dump it into the river. People that like clean rivers and safe drinking water get really pissed off but it takes them decades to collectively figure out that their water was being contaminated. They form a mob and head to your establishment armed with guns and pitchforks. Fortunately, you own a tank. After you've gunned/mowed down the would be attackers you push their corpses into the river. You sit back and think about how great life is but you worry that one day someone with access to anti-tank weaponry will pay you a visit someday. Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Aug 12, 2014 |
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Aug 12, 2014 13:59
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Who What Now posted:Ultimate Warrior hated homosexuals and Muslims, so it'd be a true libertarian paradise. 
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Aug 12, 2014 14:36
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That man seems to have a tumor below his right knee. And he doesn't seem to have a right elbow. Plus his left testicle is about the size of an orange and is hanging out of his tights. And where are his nipples. This man needs universal healthcare.
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Aug 12, 2014 14:54
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Aug 12, 2014 15:28
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Toasticle posted:This man Fixed 
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Aug 12, 2014 15:38
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It's a comeback story. But it has a message. I like it.
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Aug 12, 2014 15:56
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jrodefeld posted:The State provides an easy way out. Just buy off some politicians, pass some regulations, and grant yourself monopoly privilege through law. I know this is from the beginning of a fast-moving thread but: it is irrepressibly adorable that you fully recognize the problem of the superrich using their wealth to coöpt the state's police power to extract rents and entrench their position against the rest of society...and propose we solve this by abolishing all democratic controls on the use of force and instead allow the superrich to purchase private armies directly  Awwww, you're just so cute. I'm going to stick this manifesto right here up on the fridge
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Aug 12, 2014 |
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Aug 12, 2014 15:57
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Christmas Present posted:curious about jrodefeld's opinion: It's a shame forum invasions are frowned upon these days, there aren't enough libertarians here to answer all these great questions.
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Aug 12, 2014 16:27
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I propose a new Prosek government/economy; Everything more or less stays the same as it is now for your average nation with universal healthcare; the government may have some involvement in the market up to and including having state run businesses controlling things like exporting natural resources, but overall you do have a market economy. However, when it comes time to vote, the poorer you are, the more votes you get. Being on the board of a company, owning stock, having more than $1,000,000 combined in the bank, owning more than 2 homes, etc will all basically reduce the number of votes you have to only a handfull. Having massive debt, owning no homes, having a fulltime job but still living below the poverty line, having little formal education, etc all give you more votes, up to 10,000 for one person. This way, the market is controlled by the wealthiest of the population, while the government is controlled by the poorest of the population. I admit it's a work in progress; the numbers need tweaking, we would have to know exactly how much money every person in the country has in every bank in the world, something would need to be done so a dude who owns a single house and just keeps 10,000,000 in cash in his safe can't appear to be poorer than he is to get more votes, but the overall idea is clear I think.
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Aug 12, 2014 17:13
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DrProsek posted:I propose a new Prosek government/economy; Instead of this clumsy attempt at balance, how about the workers control the means of production? Much simpler and more intuitive.
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Aug 12, 2014 18:56
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Tezzor posted:Instead of this clumsy attempt at balance, how about the workers control the means of production? Much simpler and more intuitive. Can we also eat the rich? I think this will be an important issue for gaining popular support.
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Aug 12, 2014 18:58
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Who What Now posted:Can we also eat the rich? I think this will be an important issue for gaining popular support. I'm not interested in eating Donald Trump or Gina Rinehart, are you?
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Aug 12, 2014 19:02
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SedanChair posted:I'm not interested in eating Donald Trump or Gina Rinehart, are you? Properly prepared and seasoned and paired with a fine wine I might be.
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Aug 12, 2014 19:10
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Who What Now posted:Properly prepared and seasoned and paired with a fine wine I might be. It's all empty calories and fat, plus you don't know where they've been. You'd get sick.
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Aug 12, 2014 20:08
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Bifauxnen posted:You guys ever read Market Forces by Richard Morgan? I really liked it! Ha! I actually pulled that down off the shelf yesterday to re-read it because of that nightmarish Molyneux quote in this thread.
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Aug 12, 2014 20:22
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Cheekio posted:It's a shame forum invasions are frowned upon these days, there aren't enough libertarians here to answer all these great questions. As a freeman on the land and a voluntary participant in the free market of ideas, the illegal FUHRER PRESIDENT FOR LIFE LOWTAX REGIME can't forbid you from seeking out libertarians and telling them how loving stupid they are
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Aug 13, 2014 00:05
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So If I was living in an ancap society and an outbreak of say, ebola, occurred, would I be quarantined? Wouldn't quarantining me be violence against myself and thus a breach of my rights? In turn, If I was allowed to walk free I would be committing violence on others by spreading the disease, right?
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Aug 13, 2014 00:27
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The Ebola would be a rational actor and would not violate its libertarian principles by trespassing on your property.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:41
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QuarkJets posted:As a freeman on the land and a voluntary participant in the free market of ideas, the illegal FUHRER PRESIDENT FOR LIFE LOWTAX REGIME can't forbid you from seeking out libertarians and telling them how loving stupid they are Heil Lowtax! But yes that is about the size of it. Humorously enough being a libertarian allows you to go and do just that by their own rules. Most people try to say you can't do that in their philosophies.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:48
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Dyz posted:So If I was living in an ancap society and an outbreak of say, ebola, occurred, would I be quarantined? Presumably, when you sign up for health insurance/membership with a Healthcare Resolution Organization (which you have to do to be able to go to the only hospital in town), it would include an article where in the event of a highly contagious outbreak, you will submit to quarantine as directed by that local hospital or else you will be dropped from the organization. What happens when you drop your membership? Well, in order to keep their members safe, the insurance company/HRO won't allow their members (which includes everyone else in town other than you) to allow you onto any member's property since they don't know what kind of diseases you could have now that you dropped your membership. And even if you see the error of your ways and want to sign up for membership later, you can't! All previous medical conditions are per-exsiting conditions that the insurance/HRO company won't pay for. And what happens if your spouse or loved one quits the insurance/HRO company, you may ask? You must divorce them and move out of your home immediately  . Bask in the glory of the voluntarist, freedom of association friendly future!Tezzor posted:Instead of this clumsy attempt at balance, how about the workers control the means of production? Much simpler and more intuitive. Well, my idea was basically a way to reform current society without the need for any massive upheaval, but I suppose even if you made my plan less convoluted, it would still involve massive upheaval in order to radically change voting laws to tie number of votes to how poor you are. Can't really imagine any country voluntarily passing sweeping amendments like that today  .
burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 00:50
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QuarkJets posted:As a freeman on the land and a voluntary participant in the free market of ideas, the illegal FUHRER PRESIDENT FOR LIFE LOWTAX REGIME can't forbid you from seeking out libertarians and telling them how loving stupid they are Would it be better if Pol Pot ran the forum?  Would it? Tell me.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:51
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Quarantining you against your will would be an initiation of force, and you would be within your rights to demand that your DRO totally waste anyone who tries it. Only once you give someone Ebola are they allowed to use retaliatory force against you to quarantine you and extract compensatory damages. Once they have proven to your contractually-agreed arbitrator beyond a reasonable doubt that their Ebola was a result of a rights-violating trespass of their bodily integrity by your infected fluids then the arbitrator will direct your DRO to quarantine you until restitution is made. Obviously, anyone else you infect with Ebola during the time it takes for your case to be heard would be able to join the plaintiff. And it will take some time of course as the infection spreads, because the arbitrator will need to hire disease specialists to perform genetic testing to track back each infection to the appropriate transmitter in order to dispense proper Libertarian justice (it would be immoral to quarantine me at the request of someone I did not personally infect after all!), but since the sudden tremendous demand for disease specialists will raise salaries and thus incentivize the next generation of college students to select that field, eventually the market will sort things out and everyone wins! e: Damnit, DrProsek's was better e2: Oh wait, I just realized that Ebola is never a problem, because if you have Ebola there's a 99% chance you are black and thus will be machine-gunned on sight should you approach Hoppe's convenant community, as mentioned by the paper-bag-brown signs at the edge of covenant property reading "By crossing onto Hoppeville Territory, you hereby voluntarily contractually agree to be riddled with bullets if you are darker than this sign". VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 00:52
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VitalSigns posted:
No no yours was good too, and paints a very nice picture of how things would actually work in such an environment. It's rather terrifying to behold, given how many people would "die horribly before anything at all was accomplished"- because nobody cares about the disease, only monetary restitution for it. Entire cities worth of people could be wiped out from such epidemics as actual treatment of the disease(s) that are slaughtering people by the family-load are takes a back seat to "gotta get mah money." And the most frightening thing of all perhaps, is that under this model nobody cares and indeed considers it normalcy.
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Aug 13, 2014 01:00
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Let's say I shoot your dog. What exactly stops your DRO from contacting the my DRO and agreeing to do nothing to help you out? Do you contact a third DRO to wipe those two out? At what point does the price of the DRO blowing you off, be it in reputation or in actual, direct cost, surpass the price of actually helping you in some way? Would reputation even make a difference if literally every DRO realized it could do this? What if the bad DROs colluded to wipe out all the good ones? All of these things are cheaper than actually helping people!
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Aug 13, 2014 01:02
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