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Thermopyle posted:Geeze. Apart from the fact it is a Fortune 500 company, there's that whole thing where they got their start creating software for the NSA. Really, how could they not be dicks?
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Aug 13, 2014 20:38
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Thermopyle posted:Geeze.
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Aug 13, 2014 20:45
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Larry didn't hit (I think) number 5 richest man in the world by playing nice.
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Aug 13, 2014 20:52
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Oracle's actual technical support for Oracle Linux is near nonexistent. The only real reason to go with it is if you have enough existing contracts with oracle that their OEL stuff is a significant cost savings over RHEL, and even then frankly I would recommend against it.
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Aug 13, 2014 20:57
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I based the "faster at releasing updates" thing on the tables in the CentOS and OL Wikipedia pages. Assuming I didn't make any typos putting numbers in a spreadsheet: From RHEL 5.0 to 7.0, including all the point releases, Oracle's releases lag about 22 days behind Red Hat, while CentOS is about 53 days behind, on average. If you omit the x.0 and x.1 releases (5.2-5.10, 6.2-6.5), to get rid of the giant outlying samples of CentOS 6.0 and 6.1, those lags become 9.5 days for Oracle and 33.5 days for CentOS. Obviously, part of this is because Oracle presumably pays someone to keep an eye on this stuff, whereas CentOS was until recently a not-for-profit. And in fairness, the last couple years' worth of releases have been coming faster than those before, reducing the gap to less than a week in many cases. It's unlikely that any real money will be spent on support either way, because we're a big Microsoft shop and even the least-expensive Red Hat support plans (the ones that let you use the RHEL repos but don't come with any actual support) are still far more expensive than what we pay for a Windows Server license. If I were about to buy a few hundred RHEL support entitlements, I'm sure the pricing would be better, but right now I'm only looking at a project with about 20 servers. Hell, it's hard enough getting the higher-ups to even consider Linux, period, even for things like *AMP Web sites where basically everyone else on the planet uses Linux. I don't have any strong opinions, personally (though the last few posts are making Oracle look like giant asscocks). The biggest selling point on Oracle Linux likely would be the name -- it's something upper management has heard of, and for the same level of support (none) it's less expensive than Red Hat. If I don't use the "unbreakable" kernel, am I likely to run into any more problems than I would with CentOS?
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Aug 13, 2014 20:58
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evol262 posted:Because the reference is relative. The correct path of the file is the one nginx is looking for unless you've modified the rtgui source to use absolute paths. It does it with the js files too though. I think I'm missing something really basic here. The HTML has: code:code:code:
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Aug 13, 2014 21:04
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Thermopyle posted:Geeze. They are the scum of the earth, and if you pay Oracle money you should probably feel bad.
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Aug 13, 2014 21:05
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Thermopyle posted:Geeze. Is the Oracle-Hitler thread gone?
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Aug 13, 2014 21:11
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fletcher posted:Browser requests:
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Aug 13, 2014 21:27
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JHVH-1 posted:Between those options and the nightly fedora, something is bound to work. Yep, nightlies worked perfectly.
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Aug 13, 2014 21:34
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evol262 posted:I guess by this, a little clarification: Stop jacking up the price and people wouldn't use it. RedHat licensing for the company I work for is more expensive than Microsoft now.
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Aug 14, 2014 00:34
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jaegerx posted:Stop jacking up the price and people wouldn't use it. RedHat licensing for the company I work for is more expensive than Microsoft now. We don't license. You pay for a subscription, and some entitlements cost more. But this is totally irrelevant flamebait anyway. It's possible if you run 4 socket systems on 2008 with no CALs, I guess. And don't open any support cases. Or if you get preferential treatment from Microsoft. Or if you have a lot more RHEL servers than Windows. Or you're paying for entitlements for hpc or clustering or whatever. Or it's on system z. There are a lot of variables here. But a plain RHEL subscription is less than a 2012 standard license. If you're comparing RHEL+entitlements to 2012 standard, it's misleading. But it's not even funny how much cheaper it is than Datacenter, even with entitlements. And especially if any of these are true and you're not getting discounted pricing. And it basically hasn't changed in years (because RHOS or RHEV or JBoss or whatever makes it up -- RHEL itself is less than 50% of our revenue now). It's hardly more expensive now than it was when RHEL5 was current. There's also a TCO argument, wherein support isn't free on Windows, many requisite applications cost a lot (and are free on Linux), needing less admins, blah blah. Windows is improving, but TCO has been pretty indisputable for years. This should never be true in an apples-to-apples comparison. You're leaving something out. Probably a lot. Oracle is also not much cheaper. You get updates for free (no subscription required), but the question becomes what your business operating is worth. Do you want to save a trivial amount of money (comparatively) knowing that you may run into an issue which takes Oracle forever to help you with, if they even have the expertise? Indemnification and support is our business model. Not subscriptions. If your time is worth nothing, you'll never use support, and your in-house admin team is good enough to solve almost every problem, OEL may be cheaper. But that's a hard sell.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:14
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evol262 posted:We don't license. You pay for a subscription, and some entitlements cost more. I dunno the specifics but we have but I guess we have 100k+ redhat servers and we're being told to move our internal servers, probably 20k over to centos or suse patching instead of redhat subscription. Reason was the price hike in cost. That's my current project and it's annoying me to death so sorry if I came off as angry. I'd rather stay on redhat but the money guys make the decisions. e: you need just a subscription base for rpm updates and not support, we never use your support, we have more rhces than you do. jaegerx fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 02:14
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jaegerx posted:I dunno the specifics but we have but I guess we have 100k+ redhat servers and we're being told to move our internal servers, probably 20k over to centos or suse patching instead of redhat subscription. Reason was the price hike in cost. I mean, I guarantee you don't have more RHCEs than we do. It's free for us, and we require sales, support, consulting, et al to get them, plus a significant portion of engineering does it for the hell of it. I'd guess we have more than 3k RHCEs. But I get the point. We never used support at any company I was at either. We bought RHEL because it was someone to point the finger at. Though I can say that a lot of very large airlines and financials open cases frequently. One of the benefits of being a customer is making your business needs our business needs. MRG and SELinux (among others) came about through this. Still, my point was that, on TCO, support isn't free with Windows, and it's debatably worthless with OEL if you need it. There actually wasn't a hike, though. It's $200 more/year than it was 8 years ago, and it's still less than a 2012/2008 standard license. Something may have changed in your company's environment, but our prices have been stable. Could be some product you're running on RHEL, though (Tivoli or whatever)
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Aug 14, 2014 02:34
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evol262 posted:I mean, I guarantee you don't have more RHCEs than we do. It's free for us, and we require sales, support, consulting, et al to get them, plus a significant portion of engineering does it for the hell of it. I'd guess we have more than 3k RHCEs. But I get the point. We never used support at any company I was at either. We bought RHEL because it was someone to point the finger at. I'm pretty sure we're sitting on 1k RHCEs so I guess you're right. There was a time when we had more than you however as I recall the press release said. I don't know the specifics of it, I know we had good pricing from RedHat and I really enjoy RedHat as an enterprise operating system, it was the best thing they could've done as a company. All I know is now we're being told to move as much of our stuff as we can off of RedHat licensing to either centos or suse. I really hate it since most san/backup vendors only support RedHat and I really don't want to be told to go gently caress off when I tell emc that loving powerpath is hosed up on centoss. I hate powerpath.
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Aug 14, 2014 02:56
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jaegerx posted:I'm pretty sure we're sitting on 1k RHCEs so I guess you're right. There was a time when we had more than you however as I recall the press release said. I don't know the specifics of it, I know we had good pricing from RedHat and I really enjoy RedHat as an enterprise operating system, it was the best thing they could've done as a company. All I know is now we're being told to move as much of our stuff as we can off of RedHat licensing to either centos or suse. I really hate it since most san/backup vendors only support RedHat and I really don't want to be told to go gently caress off when I tell emc that loving powerpath is hosed up on centoss. I'm not really invested in the sales figures and don't even run RHEL anywhere, so I think CentOS is a good option. Honestly, I wouldn't even tell emc. They'll ask gotcha questions to other people (rpm -q redhat-release-notes or cat /etc/redhat-release or whatever), but you can sorta skim those questions if you know (not that I'm advocating this  ). Otherwise, if your support agreement allows it, use OEL on those boxes.I'm reasonably sure that you can use OEL as long as you don't try to manage it with satellite or anything, but ask your TAM. Plus EMC will support that. It even calls itself Redhat in redhat-release, I think.
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Aug 14, 2014 04:03
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evol262 posted:I'm not really invested in the sales figures and don't even run RHEL anywhere, so I think CentOS is a good option. Can we agree that powerpath is poo poo and multipath is 100 times better?
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Aug 14, 2014 04:09
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evol262 posted:There's also a TCO argument, wherein support isn't free on Windows
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Aug 14, 2014 04:31
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jaegerx posted:Can we agree that powerpath is poo poo and multipath is 100 times better? I like powerpath because I don't get bugs about it. We got RD_NO_MULTIPATH added to dracut because Sandisk had flash drives which multipath picked up for some reason and anaconda didn't like it 
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Aug 14, 2014 04:34
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Misogynist posted:As opposed to Red Hat, where you're cajoled into paying (whether you use it or not) for the absolute most useless support staff in the world unless your account is large enough to get the attention of someone with the knowledge to actually do a thing. Even trying to resolve a basic installation issue on Satellite was a two-week ordeal to get someone to read the loving thing. I mean, it's not $99/hr or whatever Microsoft's rate is now, but that's a pain point, certainly. GSS is fine for small customers who need support, but if you don't have a TAM, it's bad. I don't think Red Hat ever solved an issue we hadn't already solved by the time they came back. Being on the inside, I like that GSS is RHCEs and they have a few CAs around or various experts in our products. But it tends to go: You open a ticket GSS tries to resolve They escalate to a SME If the SME can't fix it, they open a private bug with engineering They attach the support case, and I can read it all, but I'm not supposed to talk directly to you. So I troubleshoot and try to reproduce when I get a chance. And maybe ask for more info. Every time I ask, I have to wait for the GSS contact to see my comment, respond to your ticket, get a response from you, and respond to the bug (I can't subscribe to updates from cases, and I have enough other stuff to do that I wouldn't want to). It's a bad system having a firewall, which works for a lot of customers and for engineering, but as you said, doesn't work for medium-sized companies (so large GSS can't help you, too small to have a TAM). I'm not saying it's a good system. I'm saying it's a less bad system than other major vendors. I also tell people to always track down the upstream project and ask on their mailing list or IRC. Rapid response directly from engineering, and any issues you have downstream are either reproducible upstream or have been fixed so recently that the devs probably still remember it and can help.
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Aug 14, 2014 05:10
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I've never had good luck with OEL or RHEL support for major kernel issues. Run RHEL or CentOS or OEL but have people in-house that can diff and bisect their way through patches to solve problems. Even better if they can fix them.
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Aug 14, 2014 06:34
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Misogynist posted:As opposed to Red Hat, where you're cajoled into paying (whether you use it or not) for the absolute most useless support staff in the world unless your account is large enough to get the attention of someone with the knowledge to actually do a thing. Even trying to resolve a basic installation issue on Satellite was a two-week ordeal to get someone to read the loving thing. I'm assuming you're referring to Microsoft? An enormous part of their company is outsourced and solely is focused on SLA Agreements. I'm sure there are benefits but it enormous hurts consumers nor does support staff need to be certified.
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Aug 14, 2014 06:47
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Tab8715 posted:I'm assuming you're referring to Microsoft? No, this is referring to Red Hat and our relative lack of SLAs for small companies. Ninja Rope posted:I've never had good luck with OEL or RHEL support for major kernel issues. Run RHEL or CentOS or OEL but have people in-house that can diff and bisect their way through patches to solve problems. Even better if they can fix them. Bravo for whatever company you work for that encounters enough kernel problems to make it an issue and employs people in-house good enough to bisect and fix backported features and fixes from mainline.
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Aug 14, 2014 06:57
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fletcher posted:It does it with the js files too though. I think I'm missing something really basic here. https://gist.github.com/rsyabuta/c7c21bd5352f77036227/revisions
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Aug 14, 2014 10:38
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I ran apt-get upgrade on an ubuntu ec2 instance and GRUB started asking me configuration questions. While I was googling what I should do I lost the SSH connection. Now when I log back in I can see an "apt-get upgrade" process is still running as root. Can I get it back somehow? Should I kill it or might that be risky if it was in the middle of something?
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Aug 14, 2014 13:02
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fuf posted:I ran apt-get upgrade on an ubuntu ec2 instance and GRUB started asking me configuration questions. While I was googling what I should do I lost the SSH connection. Now when I log back in I can see an "apt-get upgrade" process is still running as root. Can I get it back somehow? Should I kill it or might that be risky if it was in the middle of something? As far as I know, apt-get usually runs these cases reasonably well. If you are really worried about your grub installation, you could always run dpkg-reconfigure or dpkg-preconfigure, which should bring up whatever dialogue they are using for configuration.
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Aug 14, 2014 13:21
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Thanks. So I'm ok to just kill the process and start the upgrade again?
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Aug 14, 2014 13:39
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fuf posted:Thanks. So I'm ok to just kill the process and start the upgrade again? Pretty much. Apt-get complains if something didn't finish before, and if it gives you trouble run dpgk-reconfigure <whatever grub package you use> which should give you a working grub configuration no matter what.
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Aug 14, 2014 13:45
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fuf posted:I ran apt-get upgrade on an ubuntu ec2 instance and GRUB started asking me configuration questions. While I was googling what I should do I lost the SSH connection. Now when I log back in I can see an "apt-get upgrade" process is still running as root. Can I get it back somehow? Should I kill it or might that be risky if it was in the middle of something? To avoid this happening again you need to use a persistent session tool like tmux or screen, to allow you to re-connect to the same session even if your connection dies. Vital that you do this during OS upgrades especially, as you could get left with an unbootable system - if killing and restarting the process doesn't work in your case, you're out of luck.
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Aug 14, 2014 15:07
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wooger posted:To avoid this happening again you need to use a persistent session tool like tmux or screen, to allow you to re-connect to the same session even if your connection dies. I really like byobu (which is basically just a fancy frontend to tmux or screen), and it's probably easier for someone new to the idea of screen/tmux.
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Aug 14, 2014 16:05
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If I have an ethernet cord and a laptop running Ubuntu, and I find something like a television or a phone which has an ethernet jack built in to it, is there anything I can do to "examine" what's on the other "end" of that jack? Plugging the ethernet cord in to the laptop and the phone or television doesn't seem to do anything, ifconfig shows no changes, /dev obviously doesn't show any new devices... is there some way to "probe" or examine the device in this manner? I'm really curious what all these freakin' ethernet jacks are for. reading fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 16:50
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reading posted:If I have an ethernet cord and a laptop running Ubuntu, and I find something like a television or a phone which has an ethernet jack built in to it, is there anything I can do to "examine" what's on the other "end" of that jack? Plugging the ethernet cord in to the laptop and the phone or television doesn't seem to do anything, ifconfig shows no changes, /dev obviously doesn't show any new devices... is there some way to "probe" or examine the device in this manner? You could use tcpdump/wireshark on the laptop to see what the device sends out over the wire. You'll probably at least see DHCP requests, but it might also speak some sort of discovery protocol that could give you a clue about what it's doing.
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Aug 14, 2014 16:56
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reading posted:If I have an ethernet cord and a laptop running Ubuntu, and I find something like a television or a phone which has an ethernet jack built in to it, is there anything I can do to "examine" what's on the other "end" of that jack? Plugging the ethernet cord in to the laptop and the phone or television doesn't seem to do anything, ifconfig shows no changes, /dev obviously doesn't show any new devices... is there some way to "probe" or examine the device in this manner? Sometimes they are for internet connectivity (like say a smart TV) but sometimes they are really serial ports for field service.
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Aug 14, 2014 16:59
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reading posted:If I have an ethernet cord and a laptop running Ubuntu, and I find something like a television or a phone which has an ethernet jack built in to it, is there anything I can do to "examine" what's on the other "end" of that jack? Plugging the ethernet cord in to the laptop and the phone or television doesn't seem to do anything, ifconfig shows no changes, /dev obviously doesn't show any new devices... is there some way to "probe" or examine the device in this manner? tcpdump, ethtool, miitool, maybe a crossover cable, maybe nmap
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Aug 14, 2014 17:22
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I have a bunch of networked devices with no internal battery or persistent storage. When they boot, they have no idea what the time/date is. I need a way for these devices to securely get the time. When I say securely, I mean the devices should only accept a time which comes from 'me', or some server I control. Ideally, the devices should just have a trusted certificate on their disk which they can use to verify a chain a server provides. ntpd seems to have an authentication mode that does something like this, but it's kinda confusing, involving servers dynamically signing each other's certificates. Also, instructions for setting it up are all pretty old and sometimes different from one another. Has anyone here ever dealt with a problem like this, using ntpd or otherwise?
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Aug 14, 2014 21:44
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Do Chromebooks not know how to speak sha256ecdsa or is there something else going on here?
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Aug 14, 2014 22:00
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Captain Foo posted:Do Chromebooks not know how to speak sha256ecdsa or is there something else going on here? What does openssl ciphers say?
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Aug 14, 2014 22:10
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I am preparing to take the RHCSA test, would just installing CentOS work, or is an eval of RHEL going to be required? Haven't picked up the books yet, but I was going to set up a VM to play with.
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Aug 15, 2014 02:48
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RFC2324 posted:I am preparing to take the RHCSA test, would just installing CentOS work, or is an eval of RHEL going to be required? Haven't picked up the books yet, but I was going to set up a VM to play with. CentOS is mostly fine as long as you read about subscription-manager
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Aug 15, 2014 03:04
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Ninja Rope posted:What does openssl ciphers say? Tells me it doesn't support any elliptic curve encipherment at all. Thanks for the help!
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Aug 15, 2014 13:47
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