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Libertarianism is a crime against society and should be punishable by guillotine
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Aug 15, 2014 06:23
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Socrates16 posted:Our gods in government live to serve. Like, why would a health inspector want to make sure the places she was dining at weren't festooned with roaches? Open your eyes, sheeple.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:23
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Socrates16 posted:They already have total control, pleb. Then why do labor laws, health inspections, environmental laws, minimum wage laws, and every other regulation that capitalists bitch about exist? And how does giving them a green light to buy private armies improve this situation?
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Aug 15, 2014 06:24
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Socrates16 posted:One of us supports the organization that charters corporations. Spoiler alert: it aint me. So, you're just a flat out Anarchist, then? It's not really any less crazy and untenable than Libertarianism. Also, you're making a lot of assumptions about the capabilities of the US Government here. Corporations are authorized by the government. Great. That doesn't make the State responsible for their actions, cause, well, the State doesn't really control them. As a matter of fact, as you just said, Corporations have effectively subverted and disabled the State's ability to police them at all by getting lawmakers more loyal to them than the State or the People.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:26
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I'm not seeing how he doesn't believe in free association or contracts. No state, no contracts, no organizing, then what's left besides foraging and loving like animals?VitalSigns posted:And how does giving them a green light to buy private armies improve this situation? Because by diverting their energy to causing violence, when they decide to stop terrorizing people they will be behind the companies that focused on their services. \| 
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Aug 15, 2014 06:28
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Remember, last page this master of thought made the argument that because Libertarianism hasn't been ever done before, it's better then things that have been done before.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:29
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The thing I don't get about socrates and his ilk is that they seem to think that someone can just start a business out of thin air to compete with establish corporations who already have major assets and market share. "I'm not happy with my communications service, I'll just start my own!" works only if you have major capital and assets behind you already. A libertarian free market would either rip itself to shreds, or one company would eventually end up absorbing all the others becoming one super corporation having a monopoly in all markets. One interesting concept, on a more human level, is how hosed up dating would be in a libertarian society. Imagine having to do background checks and make sure any prospective girlfriend/boyfriend had DRO/health/et al coverage before you went on a date or had sex.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:31
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Augustin Iturbide posted:Remember, last page this master of thought made the argument that because Libertarianism hasn't been ever done before, it's better then things that have been done before. You're laboring under the myth that history, math, and the ability to compare things on a continuum exist. Welcome to praxeology.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:31
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CrazyTolradi posted:One interesting concept, on a more human level, is how hosed up dating would be in a libertarian society. Imagine having to do background checks and make sure any prospective girlfriend/boyfriend had DRO/health/et al coverage before you went on a date or had sex. Yeah but on the bright side, your DRO would keep you safe from rape with the always-monitored cameras in your bedroom that you voluntarily agreed to install as a condition of their crime liability coverage. As a bonus, it's an incentive for you to police your sex life, since your DRO will undoubtedly raise your rates or drop you as a bad risk if they determine that the number/quality of guys you bring home makes you a slut and thus a bad risk for rape liability 
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Aug 15, 2014 06:34
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President Kucinich posted:Welcome to praxeology. It was a clever move of Libertarians to base a theory off of 'well because we said so' and not tell anyone that until they've already been heavily indoctrinated into libertarianism.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:34
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Augustin Iturbide posted:It was a clever move of Libertarians to base a theory off of 'well because we said so' and not tell anyone that until they've already been heavily indoctrinated into libertarianism. Well that's how the kookier religions work, right? You don't begin right off telling people about Xenu imprisoning thetans in a volcano or whatever, you just tell people they've got emotional damage but you can help them get Clear. With Libertarianism it's the same: start people out slow with legalizing weed, ending wars, abolishing corporate welfare, etc, then you can move on to removing job-killing regulations, lowering taxes, and trimming the safety net to get people working again. Once they accept all that bullshit, you can pull out the good stuff about turning over all policing to the mafia, making a market to buy child slave laborers, and abolishing the Civil Rights Act because the only thing more evil than state-enforced apartheid is state-banned apartheid!
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Aug 15, 2014 06:42
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Socrates16 posted:You're right. I must provide prompt, coherent answers when all you've done in this thread is be incoherent douchebags! You didn't say we're wrong, though. Go on, tell us how the Free Market would prevent corporations and cartels.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:47
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As a nonwhite person in the U.S. I can pretty safely say that stuff like the Civil Rights Act helps me in much more tangible ways than libertarian free market wankery ever will don't tell me Socrates16 hates that too like a good libertarian
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Aug 15, 2014 07:41
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Guys, he said the danger of private security enforcement was conjectural. He literally has no knowledge of anything, why even bother responding? Everything from global outfits like Academi or Blackwater, to basically any local South American security company, have obviously committed atrocities and protected their own personal or direct clients at the expense of local populations. What exactly is the threshold for evidence required? Political Whores fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Aug 15, 2014 |
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Aug 15, 2014 07:42
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Little Blackfly posted:Guys, he said the danger of private security enforcement was conjectural. He literally has no knowledge of anything, we even bother responding? Paying them to shoot him
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Aug 15, 2014 07:44
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Little Blackfly posted:Everything from global outfits like Academi or Blackwater, to basically any local South American security company, have obviously committed atrocities and protected their own personal or direct clients at the expense of local populations. What exactly is the threshold for evidence required? That, but in a completely stateless society which also has no corporations, cartels, friendships, teamwork or any other interpersonal communication that might endanger the purity of the glorious Free Market (long may it rule).
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Aug 15, 2014 07:45
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Little Blackfly posted:What exactly is the threshold for evidence required? We need to see if it's possible for a man to be part of a PMC and shoot someone in a world without governments. Is such a thing even possible? In this hypothetical world, the victim's family would be able to "sue" the company, and convince others around them to "not do business with them", neither of which can be done today due to states.
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Aug 15, 2014 07:47
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Christ, this thread makes me want to devil's advocate for libertarianism, just so it has someone who isn't useless advocating for it. At least the arguments would be more interesting.
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Aug 15, 2014 07:49
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isildur posted:Christ, this thread makes me want to devil's advocate for libertarianism, just so it has someone who isn't useless advocating for it. At least the arguments would be more interesting. jrodefeld is literally a flawless advocate for libertarianism. He is what that looks like. Socrates16 is the palest of imitations
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Aug 15, 2014 08:08
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I'm just waiting for the right moment to unveil my flawless JRode posting I've been practicing. Accept no impostors
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Aug 15, 2014 08:22
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SedanChair posted:Socrates16 is the palest of imitations This is true. Socrates16's sarcastic one-liners give away the game of libertarian doublethink too easily. Socrates16 posted:You're right. Restaurants would just be randomly murdering people if not for our benevolent god, the state. Socrates16 posted:You're right. As we all know, foodborne illnesses are now a thing of the past. Thanks, our god, government! Obviously being a Libertarian requires subscribing simultaneously to contradicting ideas: in this case a derisive disbelief in the possibility of foodborne illnesses based on restaurants' rational self-interest in not poisoning their customers, followed immediately (once someone points out that food poisoning actually exists) by a scornful denunciation of government inspections for their inefficacy as proof that the state is incompetent and should be abolished. Jrodefeld would bury this contradiction in multiple paragraphs across different posts so he could deflect anyone who points it out with accusations of poor reading comprehension. This guy just throws it out there like he doesn't even notice that he claimed food poisoning can't happen and also that the state has failed to end it. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Aug 15, 2014 |
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Aug 15, 2014 08:31
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I know it's not strictly food-borne, but Polio was eradicated in the US thanks to the State, right? Or does it not count if they haven't eradicated all diseases ever?
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Aug 15, 2014 08:57
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I'm hungry how can the free market give me free food?
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Aug 15, 2014 09:00
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:I'm hungry how can the free market give me free food? Your hunger is a moral failing, Dusty Baker 2. You should have bootstrapped yourself out of being hungry in the first place.
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Aug 15, 2014 09:03
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How the gently caress is he getting away with all these shitposts? edit: HE WAS RIGHT REGULATION NEVER WORKS
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Aug 15, 2014 09:05
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Rhjamiz posted:I know it's not strictly food-borne, but Polio was eradicated in the US thanks to the State, right? Or does it not count if they haven't eradicated all diseases ever? The state caused polio 
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Aug 15, 2014 09:18
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Little Blackfly posted:Guys, he said the danger of private security enforcement was conjectural. He literally has no knowledge of anything, why even bother responding? Let's not forget the history of America either, the Pinkertons weren't just a detective agency after all, they killed a lot of men in the service of industrial magnates. Hell, anytime they couldn't buy off the police they simply brought in a private to crush any unionizing in their labor forces. I'm amazed anyone with a working knowledge of American history could look at private armies with anything but contempt.
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Aug 15, 2014 09:25
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DEKH posted:Let's not forget the history of America either, the Pinkertons weren't just a detective agency after all, they killed a lot of men in the service of industrial magnates. Hell, anytime they couldn't buy off the police they simply brought in a private to crush any unionizing in their labor forces. That is sort of the problem for a lot of Libertarian pie in the sky assertions. We can literally go back and witness the Neo-Feudal Robber Barons of the Gilded Age in Americans and what happens when you let private interests consolidate that much power without sufficient checks and regulation by a broader authority. Or how regulatory capture and lobbying has bowed those powers allowing modern corporations to skid around, fly under, or loophole their way to ever more profit, power without consequence to them and then dump the inevitable mess back on the public.
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Aug 15, 2014 09:32
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isildur posted:Christ, this thread makes me want to devil's advocate for libertarianism, just so it has someone who isn't useless advocating for it. At least the arguments would be more interesting. Socrates16 is already doing that. He keeps trolling the thread and making thinly-veiled arguments in favor of socialism and the schmucks in this thread keep falling over themselves trying to debate him on libertarianism. No one is seriously as stupid as Socrates16 pretends to be e: He said that private enterprise would never lead to rape or slavery, as though that's not exactly what has happened throughout the existence of private enterprise. No one actually believes that libertarianism will end rape. Even actual libertarians don't think that, their counterargument would be more akin to "you hopefully won't be raped, but if you are then it'll be caught on the cameras throughout your house and then your contract with the local DRO will lead to swift justice plus a big cash settlement and you'll be able to retire on a big pile of Ron Paul Liberty Bucks" QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Aug 15, 2014 |
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Aug 15, 2014 10:36
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Agent K on why Ancap doesn't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkCwFkOZoOY
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Aug 15, 2014 12:29
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CrazyTolradi posted:One interesting concept, on a more human level, is how hosed up dating would be in a libertarian society. Imagine having to do background checks and make sure any prospective girlfriend/boyfriend had DRO/health/et al coverage before you went on a date or had sex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvQZt4LnZlc
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Aug 15, 2014 13:21
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Socrates16 posted:Gotta love the bootlickers thinking that corporations actually are restrained by the state that creates them. Absolutely adorable! You've clearly never worked in a kitchen before. Have you ever even worked before?
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Aug 15, 2014 13:44
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I dipped out of this thread for a little while, but I had to check it to see if Jrod had used the murder of Michael Brown to demonstrate the evils of statist aggression. I was not disappointing. If only he had a higher time preference, perhaps this whole tragedy could have been avoided.
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Aug 15, 2014 14:15
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I'm a veterinarian and as part of our training we are trained in public health. As such is pathetically easy to bury a libertarian under historical evidence of things the government has done to promote public well-being. Funded by taxes. Here's a start Socrates16. Look up screwworms. Careful readers will note that screwworms have been completely 100% removed from the US, and are kept from resurfacing by government import laws and outbreak protocols (yes there have been outbreaks where someone snuck an infected animal across the border). I loving DARE a private industry to do that. 100% success. Is that perfect enough for you? Do I need more examples? Cause I've got them. Is the government perfect? gently caress no. They're a terrible bunch of corrupt fucktards, but they are a necessary evil and on the whole they do more good than bad (debatable I know). They are also at least mildly accountable to us. Private groups are accountable to NO ONE. Once they accumulate enough power they do whatever the gently caress they want. Exhibit A: Every aggressive monopolistic action by any corporation ever. Exhibit B: Microsoft.
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Aug 15, 2014 14:35
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Travic posted:Here's a start Socrates16. Look up screwworms. Careful readers will note that screwworms have been completely 100% removed from the US, and are kept from resurfacing by government import laws and outbreak protocols (yes there have been outbreaks where someone snuck an infected animal across the border). I loving DARE a private industry to do that. 100% success. Is that perfect enough for you? Do I need more examples? Cause I've got them. Oooh ooh, I want to tackle this one. Okay, ready?  How glorious that our divine State deigns to remove a bothersome little pest after robbing us blind and pressing us into police state slavery.  Everyone knows we'd be able to drive out screw worms and fix all our other problems too if we weren't burdened by taxes.
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Aug 15, 2014 16:06
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"Curing polio by raising taxes is equivalent to curing someone's bronchitis by shooting him. The "cure" is far worse than the disease." \|
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Aug 15, 2014 16:10
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Hey Socrates, the guy in your avatar said this:Murray Rothbard posted:"Crush Criminals. And by this I mean, of course, not "white collar criminals" or "inside traders" but violent street criminals – robbers, muggers, rapists, murderers. Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment, subject of course to liability when they are in error.
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Aug 15, 2014 16:24
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I unironically yearn to return to the gilded age, when men could project their will in steel and stretch their might into the heavens.
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Aug 15, 2014 16:25
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Badera posted:Hey Socrates, the guy in your avatar said this: hahaha Freedom's Vanguard!!
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Aug 15, 2014 16:36
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Socrates16 had better come back and explain what his libertarian society would look like, because right now if he agrees 100% with Jrod, then he should probably stop using words like statist negatively because he totally is one. If anything a DRO-state is actually way more authoritarian and prone to abuse than what we have today.
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Aug 15, 2014 16:41
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