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RyokoTK posted:Isn't this texture in Doom 1? I could have sworn it was on Mt. Erebus. As bad as some of the Doom 2 levels are, at least they're merely boring and confusing, rather than physically painful to look at. gently caress Mt. Erebus, Jesus.
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Aug 17, 2014 00:04
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The blue/red texture is the best drat texture there is. Of course Hell would bring poo poo that you can't even understand with it.
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Aug 17, 2014 00:18
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Elliotw2 posted:Actually, googling shows that there are basic mods for the BFG edition, including for the shotgun spread and the body stay effect. Ah, I didn't know that. I'll check and see if there are any sound mods too. I dunno though, I'm one of those weirdos that didn't mind switching between the flashlight and gun in the original game. It was tense, maaaan!
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Aug 17, 2014 00:34
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I wish more games had a shotgun like Marathon 2's dual sawn offs. In both Samsara and Aleph one it's really satisfying to get them in a good rhythm and just unload buckshot everywhere.
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Aug 17, 2014 00:39
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Samsara allows you to shoot both shotguns simultaneously, which is inauthentic behavior, but goddamn that's a lot of burst damage.
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Aug 17, 2014 00:48
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It helps, since Marathon 2 didn't have anything quite as hp filled as the cyberdemon or spider mastermind.
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Aug 17, 2014 00:52
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catlord posted:As bad as some of the Doom 2 levels are, at least they're merely boring and confusing, rather than physically painful to look at. gently caress Mt. Erebus, Jesus. The Waste Tunnels is dark for so long to cause pain I think. Mt. Erebus was possibly my favourite map out of the first three episodes.
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Aug 17, 2014 00:59
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Elliotw2 posted:It helps, since Marathon 2 didn't have anything quite as hp filled as the cyberdemon or spider mastermind. Major Juggernaut comes pretty drat close, actually.
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Aug 17, 2014 01:02
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Who's playing Golden Souls? I need help with Lucy in the Sky because I have no idea where to find the eighth red coin for the life of me and I scoured all of the islands up and down ( and yes I killed the Cyberdemon).
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Aug 17, 2014 01:59
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Mak0rz posted:Who's playing Golden Souls? I need help with Lucy in the Sky because I have no idea where to find the eighth red coin for the life of me and I scoured all of the islands up and down ( and yes I killed the Cyberdemon). I had to look in this zDoom forums to find it. It's under the broken temple, located through a cave in the side of the island. It's really dumb.
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Aug 17, 2014 02:07
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Gimnbo posted:I had to look in this zDoom forums to find it. It's under the broken temple, located through a cave in the side of the island. It's really dumb. I love that you knew which coin I was missing without having to tell you the ones I already have  Thanks!
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Aug 17, 2014 02:27
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Insert name here posted:Pretty sure it's actually this one He's way too lenient on The Plutonia Experiment there, which is nicer to look at, yes, but full of the same annoyances as vanilla Doom 2, if not moreso. Plutonia's levels are inconsistent in design, quality and difficulty. Often levels seem to be out of order, where one level is really large and difficult and the next is really easy. There are tons of areas with slime and lava that don't cause damage, but on other maps they do. Why not just use a different floor texture? There's no way to predict it. There are tons of repeated brown stone textures. Hellspawn love bricks, apparently. There are also about a million Chaingunners and Revenants, including in monster closets and tight areas that make it annoying rather than fun, just like Doom 2. Plutonia also uses way too much gimmicks, traps, and "theme" levels. There are places where you have to walk over chasms on invisible bridges like Indiana Jones with no way to tell where the floor is until you try it and fall over and over. There are crushing ceilings placed at random for no reason other than "surprise, you're dead!" There are also floors that drop out from under you randomly for the same reason. You have to fight tough enemies on early levels (Mancubi, Arachnotrons, Arch-Viles by Map 03) with weak weapons. In fact the first few levels aren't very good in general. There are places with textures but no physical walls, so the enemies can see and attack you and you have no idea anything was there. The gimmick level Map 11: Hunted is just plain bad. TNT is less ambitious but more consistent in quality. I can forgive them both because they were made in 1996, but today they don't hold up well at all.
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Aug 17, 2014 05:42
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Plutonia sells it self as "an expert's Doom 2" and warns you in it's very readme that it's full of even more of the traps you loved from Doom 2.
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Aug 17, 2014 05:48
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And I was tricked and I was trapped in Plutonia and I loved every second of it, yes, what is your point? Get on with it, goonsir.
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Aug 17, 2014 05:49
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TNT is not consistent in quality, are you joking? It's terrible.
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Aug 17, 2014 06:03
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Yeah I actually unironically enjoyed Plutonia but couldn't get through TNT.
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Aug 17, 2014 06:08
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RyokoTK posted:TNT is not consistent in quality, are you joking? It's terrible. Yeah I was like 99 percent sure he had mixed the wad names up before he mentioned Hunted.
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Aug 17, 2014 06:18
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Fag Boy Jim posted:Yeah I was like 99 percent sure he had mixed the wad names up before he mentioned Hunted. Except everything I wrote applies exactly to Plutonia. People must have rose tinted glasses for that wad because every complaint about vanilla Doom 2 is right there, which is my point about FirstPersonShitter's rant.
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Aug 17, 2014 07:46
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The only things I remember from TNT is the Wormhole map, which can be finished in seconds, and the infamous last level, which may seem as a giant dick move at the end of the episode, until you discover that colored flames in the first corridor mark the proper way through teleport maze.
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Aug 17, 2014 10:09
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Always liked TNT Evilution more than Plutonia. The levels in that never worked for me. At least they didn't look as bad as Sandy Petersens levels in Doom 2 I guess.
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Aug 17, 2014 11:40
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While we're still talking about Doom 2 I'm poking at it in bits and bites for the first time and Dead Simple through to The Pit was an amazing set that made up for the blah in the first six.
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Aug 17, 2014 11:52
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Yeah, but then you have to play Refueling Base.
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Aug 17, 2014 11:57
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Yep I died once in Refueling Base (by the way I am tired of pain elementals in monster closets already and I say this as someone who genuinely enjoys Doom 3) and said "SO IT'S BREAK TIME NOW."
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Aug 17, 2014 12:01
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What you guys think of Citadel, then? It was the first Doom 2 level I've ever played at friends house years ago, and still I pop it from time to time. I wouldn't call it my favourite, but it still works great as showcase of Doom -> Doom 2 evolution, with it's size and complexity. In a way, this map is a sequel to Unholy Cathedral from the original.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:42
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It has absolutely none of the vibe of Unholy Cathedral, which is well designed thematically and gameplay wise. Citadel definitely has that Doom 2 vibe of bigger, more open areas which don't really make a lot of sense and look like poo poo. At the time maps like that definitely fit the bill on the back of theDoom2 box which was 'bigger and badder' but while it may have been imposing and interesting then it stands the test of time poorly.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:35
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I haven't made it to MAP19 yet but I'll share my thoughts as a new player when I get there.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:43
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I'm also replaying it for the first time in a while, and goddamn Factory is awful garbage and I hate it.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:47
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Elliotw2 posted:I'm also replaying it for the first time in a while, and goddamn Factory is awful garbage and I hate it. Haha that is the EXACT LEVEL I'm on. I died to the mancubi in a small room, but doing giant chain-strafing runs on arachnotrons was fun.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:48
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So, what actually happened between Doom and Doom II that made the latter so… meh?
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Aug 17, 2014 22:32
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Tippis posted:So, what actually happened between Doom and Doom II that made the latter so… meh? Doom had several years of development and working on the maps, Doom II came out a mere 9 months later, partially using rejected Doom maps.
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Aug 17, 2014 22:40
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Tippis posted:So, what actually happened between Doom and Doom II that made the latter so… meh? Honestly only e1 is significantly better in quality than Doom II, e2 and e3 were in a lot of ways worse. It's tough, though, there are some great maps in Doom 2 and good maps in e2 and e3 as well. Map29 is one of the best examples of a really linear map, for example, and it plays really well.
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Aug 17, 2014 22:41
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Tippis posted:So, what actually happened between Doom and Doom II that made the latter so… meh? Same engine, not enough new stuff. Same reason everyone remembers Wolf 3D but few people care about Spear of Destiny. Also the levels might have been too abstract; Doom tried to make you believe you were in an actual place (even showing your progress on a cute little world map between each level), Doom II unashamedly tells you that you're in a video game action puzzle with some gimmick. Even if the design might be better, it's too transparent I guess.
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Aug 17, 2014 22:47
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The super shotgun and new enemies justified buying Doom 2 back in the day, not to mention that hey, it's more Doom. People like to complain about copy and paste sequels but Doom 2 is pretty much the standard bearer there and still considered one of the best in the genre. I never felt 'this is worse than Doom 1' but I do hate the city levels with a passion. The WADs and mods for the game is its saviour.
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Aug 17, 2014 22:50
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Yeah the super shotgun was worth the price on Steam itself. (Admittedly that price was $1 as part of the iD Mega Pack thing during QuakeCon but still!)
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Aug 17, 2014 22:55
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I barely even think about Doom 2 as a standalone game, it's more like a... platform. Like "here's a bunch of dumb levels you can play if you want, but you really should go on
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Aug 17, 2014 23:37
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I also seem to remember one of the iD team giving an interview on Doom 2 years alter and mentioning they were trying to make the levels in it based on what they'd seen the bbs/online communities do in their own maps? Since they had been somewhat out of ideas after putting together the original Doom.
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Aug 17, 2014 23:45
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Doom 2 was a retail-only game, it had no demo version because id was convinced that giving away whole 1st episode made people think they own the full game. Also, more money from sales going straight to devs.
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Aug 17, 2014 23:51
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Any Aeons of Death Buffs know what the icon in the top right is? Kind of has a tint of green in it and I have 0 clue what it's used for or what it does.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:08
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Nintendo Kid posted:I also seem to remember one of the iD team giving an interview on Doom 2 years alter and mentioning they were trying to make the levels in it based on what they'd seen the bbs/online communities do in their own maps? Since they had been somewhat out of ideas after putting together the original Doom. They hired poeple who made Doom/Doom 2 maps like American McGee.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:15
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I don't get the hate for Doom 2. Maybe because I vividly remember the anticipation of it coming out and how aside from a few decent maps here and there, there was really nothing else worth playing beyond the original Doom at the time. The super shotgun is fun as hell and IMHO the level designs are great. Sure some of them are annoying like the city, but it was a perfect sequel to Doom in my eyes. Certainly a better sequel to Doom 1 than Doom 3 was to Doom 2.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:30
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