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Majorian posted:As opposed to "how the gently caress do you think I know?!". Also, yeah, Sorkin's then-optimism is entertaining. He did write Rob Ritchie to be a pretty big, mean idiot though. The very first episode is about mean, evangelicals, but they're not politicians. Trivia question: Do they ever talk about who he beat to win the first election? I think that just kind of goes unsaid. You only ever find out about he and Hoynes in the primary and Lassiter being the previous guy. (I have spent entirely too much of my life watching and re-watching The West Wing)
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Aug 17, 2014 19:37
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Wolfsheim posted:What's funny about the West Wing is that even when Sorkin is writing Republicans he can't make them too stupid. Of the prominent Republican characters on the show, none are evangelical and all are sensible and appropriately quippy, and then, when Santos, the Obama analogue, is running in the final season, he's never really targeted for racist attacks. Right, it's kind of amazing - I probably would have been totally okay with Vinick winning the election (which he was supposed to win originally, from what I understand), because he's a smart, reasonable guy. What a wonderful world that would be - where a Republican winning wouldn't be the end of the world, because they wouldn't be crazed shitbirds like they are IRL.
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Aug 17, 2014 19:43
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i kind of want to play vicky 2 but the way the game plays makes it look like unless youre a major power you mostly end up getting your chain jerked around by england which is, like, historically accurate i guess but not a compelling reason for me to play a game
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Aug 17, 2014 19:44
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Majorian posted:Right, it's kind of amazing - I probably would have been totally okay with Vinick winning the election (which he was supposed to win originally, from what I understand), because he's a smart, reasonable guy. What a wonderful world that would be - where a Republican winning wouldn't be the end of the world, because they wouldn't be crazed shitbirds like they are IRL. Yeah, the series was originally written with Vinick narrowly winning, which was changed after John Spencer's untimely death mid-season.
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Aug 17, 2014 19:49
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They were shooting from the hip pretty hard for those last post-Sorkin seasons. Kept it going for a while, but the writing talent was never quite the same without shrooms.
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Aug 17, 2014 19:58
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THS posted:lucky for you, in vicky 2 it doesnt except they did because socialist parties are the best way to industrialize in vicky2?
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Aug 17, 2014 20:14
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Wolfsheim posted:What's funny about the West Wing is that even when Sorkin is writing Republicans he can't make them too stupid. Of the prominent Republican characters on the show, none are evangelical and all are sensible and appropriately quippy, and then, when Santos, the Obama analogue, is running in the final season, he's never really targeted for racist attacks. Isn't the tedious mary sue in The Newsroom supposed to be a Republican?
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Aug 17, 2014 20:24
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Raskolnikov38 posted:except they did because socialist parties are the best way to industrialize in vicky2? if proponents of free trade say it'll cause the skies to rain down gold, the devs put it in there as +2 gold supply or whatever. if the proponents of central planning say it'll put a car in every garage, they'll put in +2 transportation. if both say they'll increase efficiency because of the same reason, it doesn't matter, they each get that bonus. so economic policies are just down to preference - it doesn't matter, it all works. i always chose laissez-faire capitalism because that's basically autopilot and made sure i didn't have to pay attention to all that stupid poo poo.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:27
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Badger of Basra posted:Isn't the tedious mary sue in The Newsroom supposed to be a Republican? He's supposed to be one of the good, reasonable ones who have been left behind by the modern party, which would still seem to mean he ought to be a Reagan or Bush devotee.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:29
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R. Mute posted:i always chose laissez-faire capitalism because that's basically autopilot and made sure i didn't have to pay attention to all that stupid poo poo. The socialists state capitalism still let's you have capitalists build factories but also allows you to build factories yourself when the ai countries eventually stops producing something critical like cement. Also a downside to vicky2 is that it forces you to be an awful person, my first game ended up with me killing almost 80 million rebels.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:31
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Badger of Basra posted:Isn't the tedious mary sue in The Newsroom supposed to be a Republican? I'm sorry, you'll have to be more specific  ReindeerF posted:They were shooting from the hip pretty hard for those last post-Sorkin seasons. Kept it going for a while, but the writing talent was never quite the same without shrooms. I think it's kinda like Seinfeld in that the ensemble cast was so strong by that point that they still pulled it off pretty well. I can't help but think Sorkin wouldn't have had Josh and his assistant get together though, that always seemed a little too on the nose. Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Aug 17, 2014 |
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Aug 17, 2014 20:34
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Yeah, or Toby betray the President or CJ become Chief of Staff. I agree, though, that all things considered it stayed together pretty well. Still, some of the early episodes like the plotline where they're stuck in Indiana really were fantastic TV. EDIT: If you watch it enough, another thing that's impressive is how coherent they keep things. There's a shitload of foreshadowing that was surely just ad lib at the beginning, but that Sorkin reached back, grabbed and turned into major parts of the show. An easy example is when the President describes to Zoe the nightmare scenario in one of the first episodes of the first season and then during the kidnapping story arc a couple of seasons in that's exactly how it unfolds. I know all shows have bibles and continuity, but Sorkin didn't just maintain continuity, he really paid attention to every detail. EDIT EDIT: And then went on to do Studio 60 and Newsroom. ReindeerF fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Aug 17, 2014 |
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Aug 17, 2014 20:37
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I thought CJ did well as chief of staff, what didn't you like about it?
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Aug 17, 2014 20:43
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I love Allison Janney and the character, but I just didn't find the way it all shook out plausible. She could carry the role, she's a talented actress, but I didn't buy that it would've happened in the West Wing universe any more than Toby betraying the President. They really shoehorned it in to make it happen.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:45
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Ah alright. Toby leaking the shuttle the press was indeed the dumbest plot line.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:47
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sorkin can only write preachy bullshit
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Aug 17, 2014 20:51
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Also her midi-chlorian count wasn't high enough.R. Mute posted:sorkin can only write preachy bullshit
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Aug 17, 2014 20:51
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Wolfsheim posted:I'm sorry, you'll have to be more specific The Newsroom has actually turned me off of watching The West Wing. I've never watched it, but the same people who tell me The Newsroom is great say the same thing about The West Wing and that doesn't bode well.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:52
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The only part of The West Wing that I've seen is the scene about the Gall-Peters projection, how wonderful and socially responsible it is, and how we should adopt it immediately. It was enough to deter me from watching more.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:54
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personally I always thought Sam Seaborn was most likely to betray the president and develop an affair with Ainsley, from what little I saw of the show
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Aug 17, 2014 20:54
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The Newsroom is not good and season two was quite bad. It's possible you needed to be alive, politically conscious and watching The West Wing in context of the times it was written in for it to appeal, I don't know. So much of the hopey-dopey poo poo doesn't work for a post-9/11 audience that's been through like a decade and a half of war and strife. Some people just do not like Aaron Sorkin, don't like his style, don't like how he writes women, don't like the cadence of his dialog and those people are not going to like The West Wing for sure. With that said, it's nowhere near the mess than The Newsroom or Studio 60 have been. It's very tight and it has a fantastic cast.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:57
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Ah alright. Toby leaking the shuttle the press was indeed the dumbest plot line. That was pretty dumb, but at least it gave us more of Oliver Platt's character, who I thought stole most every scene he was in. Also, Toby was easily my least favorite member of the main cast, so I wasn't exactly broke-up to see him sidelined.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:58
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also man you know the West Wing is old when the president had a veep who was a Texas Democratic senator
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Aug 17, 2014 20:59
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Badger of Basra posted:The Newsroom has actually turned me off of watching The West Wing. I've never watched it, but the same people who tell me The Newsroom is great say the same thing about The West Wing and that doesn't bode well. Yeah, I don't actually like the Newsroom because it seems like every bad Sorkin stereotype dialed up to eleven, but I do at least appreciate that he kinda drops the "if only the reasonable people on both sides could work together!" thing and accurately portrays the Tea Party as monsters
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Aug 17, 2014 21:01
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The first episode begins with two people confusing their beepers. Yeah, it's dated.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:01
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ReindeerF posted:They were shooting from the hip pretty hard for those last post-Sorkin seasons. Kept it going for a while, but the writing talent was never quite the same without shrooms. Hey, that's not fair. ...Sorkin also had the benefit of mountains of coke. R. Mute posted:sorkin can only write preachy bullshit That's right, Euro-trash, keep complaining that there's not enough Austrian dads keeping their daughters confined in rape dungeons on TV.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:04
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Serious question: what's so appealing about "The Wire"?
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Aug 17, 2014 21:06
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Wolfsheim posted:Yeah, I don't actually like the Newsroom because it seems like every bad Sorkin stereotype dialed up to eleven, but I do at least appreciate that he kinda drops the "if only the reasonable people on both sides could work together!" thing and accurately portrays the Tea Party as monsters I only saw the OWS episode, which I liked because it showed how a lot of its key figures were complete tards and how dumb the human mic thing was. But I also like Sorkin with his gloves off, and I hope he does a better show where he keeps nailing Tea Party balls to the wall. ThirdPartyView posted:Serious question: what's so appealing about "The Wire"? I'm combing through it myself, and I'm enjoying it, but not as much as I feel I should be. I've just started season 2, though, and the whole thing with The Greek seems pretty rad.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:08
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Majorian posted:That's right, Euro-trash, keep complaining that there's not enough Austrian dads keeping their daughters confined in rape dungeons on TV.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:10
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ThirdPartyView posted:Serious question: what's so appealing about "The Wire"?
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Aug 17, 2014 21:10
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It's well-written and acted, basically. All the broader social commentary aside, characters like McNulty and Bunk are just entertaining as Hell. When I first started into it I really didn't like Season 2, but in retrospect that's one of my favorite seasons of a TV show ever. EDIT: The Newsroom has gotten so bad that even Sorkin is trying to abandon it and basically admits that season two is one gigantic continuity error after another. He totally phoned that poo poo in hardcore. I wish he'd just abandon TV at this point and stick to stage and film. Without the coke habit he doesn't have the persistence for it. They're doing a season 3 I saw, but I read somewhere it would be shorter (not sure) and the final season. ReindeerF fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Aug 17, 2014 |
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Aug 17, 2014 21:11
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The Newsroom had a scene where the sorkinite main character rips a teenager a new rear end in a top hat about being "the worst. generation. EVAR!!" so i assume all his poo poo is really dumb now
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Aug 17, 2014 21:14
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R. Mute posted:you could have at least gone for dutroux Yeah, but every country has a serial killer/child molester or two. There's just something uniquely European about Josef Fritzl. paranoid randroid posted:The Newsroom had a scene where the sorkinite main character rips a teenager a new rear end in a top hat about being "the worst. generation. EVAR!!" so i assume all his poo poo is really dumb now Oh dear. I relish instances where Boomers try to tell me or others that Millennials are the worst generation ever. It allows me to respond with poo poo like, "We didn't invade Iraq and crash the economy and vote for Bush."
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Aug 17, 2014 21:15
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R. Mute posted:all economic theories work in vicky2. it doesn't make sense, there's no consistency, it just works because *magic* I love how there's such an incredibly detailed model of production and consumption, but there's no business cycles, no inflation, no real unemployment, etc. And the economy is so complicated that no one actually knows how it works. Whee!
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Aug 17, 2014 21:15
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Majorian posted:Yeah, but every country has a serial killer/child molester or two. There's just something uniquely European about Josef Fritzl. worst thing to come out of Austria since Adolf Hitler
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Aug 17, 2014 21:16
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Majorian posted:Yeah, but every country has a serial killer/child molester or two. There's just something uniquely European about Josef Fritzl.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:17
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:worst thing to come out of Austria since Adolf Hitler True, but enough about Schwarzenegger. BOOM!!!!!  R. Mute posted:didn't they find an american variant of ol' josef in the year following his case coming to light? Do you mean the dudes in Ohio who kept the three girls for ten years or whatever? Because that's definitely bad, but not as bad as doing the same thing with your daughter. e: (I genuinely love Europe, I just enjoy hurting the things and people I love)
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Aug 17, 2014 21:18
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I love how there's such an incredibly detailed model of production and consumption, but there's no business cycles, no inflation, no real unemployment, etc. And the economy is so complicated that no one actually knows how it works. Whee!
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Aug 17, 2014 21:19
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Majorian posted:Do you mean the dudes in Ohio who kept the three girls for ten years or whatever? Because that's definitely bad, but not as bad as doing the same thing with your daughter.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:21
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R. Mute posted:didn't they find an american variant of ol' josef in the year following his case coming to light?
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Aug 17, 2014 21:22
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