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Djeser posted:Good writing isn't just ideas, it's the effort and time spent taking those ideas, refining them, working over your words, and so on. Everyone identifies with their work via the ideas--I can think back to 'bitcoin dystopia' or 'Top Gun griffins' but what makes or breaks the story isn't the quality of the idea, it's the work you put into it. We get protective of ideas sometimes, but the way you're feeling is like being afraid someone might steal your kid's name for their own. First, no one is going to do that, and second, if they do, who cares? It's not going to affect the quality of what you've written. I registered the trademark of Top Gun griffins in 1988. I'm going to have to ask you to stop using my intellectual property.
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Aug 17, 2014 03:25
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Total change of tack: what's a good way to break into the publishing industry? What sort of experience and qualifications do they look for? Conventions are a good way to meet anyone and everyone who can help you do this and give you the best advice on who to talk to... but that requires being social. Some of us have issues with that.
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Aug 17, 2014 03:28
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Zip posted:Conventions are a good way to meet anyone and everyone who can help you do this and give you the best advice on who to talk to... but that requires being social. Attending cons also costs money and takes time, and it's rare to find someone who has an excess of both.
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Aug 17, 2014 03:57
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How do I know if I'm just a bad writer and there's no hope for me? I've been trying to write lately, and I'm starting to wonder if this is the case. I know what my major flaws are, but I don't seem to be improving at all with practice. The worst is when my mind just goes blank and I can't even think of something to write about.
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Aug 17, 2014 05:28
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KevinCow posted:How do I know if I'm just a bad writer and there's no hope for me? I've been trying to write lately, and I'm starting to wonder if this is the case. I know what my major flaws are, but I don't seem to be improving at all with practice. The worst is when my mind just goes blank and I can't even think of something to write about. THUNDERDOME
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Aug 17, 2014 07:12
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KevinCow posted:How do I know if I'm just a bad writer and there's no hope for me? I've been trying to write lately, and I'm starting to wonder if this is the case. I know what my major flaws are, but I don't seem to be improving at all with practice. The worst is when my mind just goes blank and I can't even think of something to write about. While crabrock speaks the truth, you can spread this a bit more generally. I've found that the best solution to a rut is a writing workshop. The key is finding one that won't hesitate to call you out when you're bad, while being honest about what you've done wrong. This can be harder than it sounds. So far, the only places I've managed to find are college courses and Thunderdome. Thunderdome. Do it.
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Aug 17, 2014 07:46
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Zip posted:I registered the trademark of Top Gun griffins in 1988. I'm going to have to ask you to stop using my intellectual property. Fine, then I'll take Top Gun gryphons. 
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Aug 17, 2014 10:36
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It's hard to find a good balance between a hug around feel-good echo chamber and a negativity deathtrap. I guess I'd say if the feedback you get tells you why it sucked, you can work with that. What's your writing process? Maybe a change of routine could help. How do you draft / redraft?
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Aug 17, 2014 10:49
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Bobby Deluxe posted:It's hard to find a good balance between a hug around feel-good echo chamber and a negativity deathtrap. That's my problem: I never get to the redraft phase. I can't finish a story. I get a thousand or so words in and find that I've run out of ideas. When I have something to actually write, I think my prose itself is... serviceable. That's not my biggest concern. My biggest concern is that I'm just not creative enough to tell a story. Is there anything I can do about that, or is it just something that you either have or you don't?
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Aug 17, 2014 16:19
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KevinCow posted:That's my problem: I never get to the redraft phase. I can't finish a story. I get a thousand or so words in and find that I've run out of ideas. This used to happen to me. Then I started doing Thunderdome. Seriously, it's a matter of perseverance and practice. I found that learning to write stories in the ~1000 word range taught me how to construct a complete story, and I've had better luck with my longer work since then. Do you outline before you write? If you have some idea where the story is going, it's easier to push through. I usually hit a point in my rough draft where I feel like a story is just dead, but I write to my outline and then fill in the better details on a second or third edit. Rough drafts don't have to be good, or creative, or complete. They just have to exist as words on a page to work from later.
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Aug 17, 2014 16:49
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KevinCow posted:That's my problem: I never get to the redraft phase. I can't finish a story. I get a thousand or so words in and find that I've run out of ideas. I've got opinions about creativity, so here they are: Everyone is creative. Or, at the very least, everyone has the capacity to be creative. It's not something where you have it or you don't, it's a skill, and like any skill, you can learn and improve if you practice. If it seems like some people are inherently creative, that's because they've had practice--they didn't start out like that. If you feel like you're not creative, the problem might be that you haven't practiced, or that you haven't learned yet how to use your creativity. Both of those are solved by diving right in and writing and revising and getting feedback. This week's Thunderdome is wrapping up tonight, so there's going to be a new prompt in the next few days, if you want to get in on it. Or, if you prefer, there's the Farm thread, where you can post short excerpts, up to around 1000 words (though not a hard limit) if you want feedback. And while sometimes you can hear feedback and thing 'telling me how I'm bad', feedback can be a massive boost to your confidence, because then you're not sitting and worrying all day long about whether you're good enough. You'll know what to work on, and even what you're doing well, too.
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Aug 17, 2014 17:15
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KevinCow posted:That's my problem: I never get to the redraft phase. I can't finish a story. I get a thousand or so words in and find that I've run out of ideas. I think everyone hits a block like this from time to time. There have been times where I have dreaded sitting down at a desk to write.... What helps me is writing every day for a month. (Kind of started from nano with goons a few years back.) I don't worry about word count. I don't worry about doing it for a long period of time I just set at least 20 minutes aside every day, for a month. If I write past that time, great. If I don't feel like writing my main story, I cycle between blog posts and a few other short stories I'm working on. One day I'll write 300 words and the next 1600. That's fine. If what I wrote sucks... Great. I still wrote. Usually about the second week creativity starts to crawl out of the walls and I'm happy with what I write. Then I'm actually looking forward to writing every day (as it should be.) I've never participated in Thunderdome though. Just lurked. There are some great writers in that thread and that makes me more nervous than anything lol.
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Aug 17, 2014 19:32
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i was really intimiated by the thunderdome at first but its not that bad. my goal from the get go was "dont get a dm".
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Aug 17, 2014 19:37
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KevinCow posted:My biggest concern is that I'm just not creative enough to tell a story. Is there anything I can do about that, or is it just something that you either have or you don't? 1) Free writing: Just write. Write anything. For a set period of time. Even if the result is "loving hell, I can't write. I can't think of anything. I have been mindwiped by cylons. My brain is a barren wasteland upon which camels are making GBS threads. Do cylons know what camel poo poo is? Why did they put it in my brain?" Then you look at it from the perspective of 'is any of this useable?' The camel poo poo bit was OK, so run with that. Don't correct spelling or grammar, just let your mind pour poo poo out. Do this once a day and the ideas will gradually filter through, if only by process of attrition. If nothing else it's a great warm up. 2) cut-up: if you're still looking at your free writing blankly, cut it up into sentences, then cut each sentence in half. Spread them out over a table or your bed. Make new combinations. Rearrange them until two pieces make something interesting. Honestly, the toughest thing about being creative is learning to separate the production and critical parts of your mind. You need to produce a ton of unusable crap, take a break, then cut it down until it's useable. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Aug 17, 2014 |
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Aug 17, 2014 20:14
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LOU BEGAS MUSTACHE posted:i was really intimiated by the thunderdome at first but its not that bad. Ya I know and it is a fun thread to read... Feh maybe I'll give it a go next time.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:43
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Thanks for the advice, everyone. I'm honestly terrified of Thunderdome because I don't want to lose my avatar and I'm so broke I can't afford another one, but maybe I'll post something in the farm. Only that thread says you have to give out some criticism before you get any, but I don't feel like I really have criticisms to give. So I guess it's a tossup between risking my avatar or learning how to provide criticism.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:47
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KevinCow posted:Thanks for the advice, everyone. It's the same 'learn by doing' thing. Really, the worst that happens is that your critique isn't hugely insightful. Pick something you like from what's been posted lately and have a go. Also Thunderdome. I am terrible and yet somehow still have my avatar.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:53
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KevinCow posted:Thanks for the advice, everyone. 
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Aug 17, 2014 22:33
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KevinCow posted:Thanks for the advice, everyone. just enter, you might lose, but oh well. no one's gonna care if you lost in the thunderdome.
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Aug 17, 2014 22:43
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i care.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:34
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LOU BEGAS MUSTACHE posted:i was really intimiated by the thunderdome at first but its not that bad. That was my goal too. And then I got a DM on my first entry. BUT people are posting helpful crits and resources that relate directly to the things I want to improve. I obviously don't have the avatar investment, so I can't speak to that, but I'm looking forward to writing more Thunderdome.
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Aug 18, 2014 18:25
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I got a DM my first time, too. It happens. The important thing about Thunderdome is that it's going to show you ideas you might not have thought of yourself. If you feel like you're in a rut, that you can't come up with any ideas, it can be helpful to have someone else's idea to run with for 1000 words. But if you don't want to run the risk of having a dead Australian gayboy warrior for an avatar, you can just do the writing without saying you're in for the week, and then post it in the fiction farm or something.
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Aug 18, 2014 18:40
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KevinCow posted:That's my problem: I never get to the redraft phase. I can't finish a story. I get a thousand or so words in and find that I've run out of ideas. How much do you read? And re: learning criticism, lucky for you there have been at least two conversations about that in this thread!
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Aug 18, 2014 21:05
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I also got a DM my first time. Then the second time I won! It's not like you get a DM and everyone decides you are Bad At Stories and laughs at you.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:51
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HopperUK posted:I also got a DM my first time. Then the second time I won! It's not like you get a DM and everyone decides you are Bad At Stories and laughs at you. That's an important lesson to learn, in a lot of things. Just because you wrote a bad story does not mean that you're a bad writer.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:52
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HopperUK posted:I also got a DM my first time. Then the second time I won! It's not like you get a DM and everyone decides you are Bad At Stories and laughs at you. Meinberg posted:That's an important lesson to learn, in a lot of things. Just because you wrote a bad story does not mean that you're a bad writer. One time I got a bad crit and then that story got accepted to a magazine, so even if someone says your story is bad, they probably just don't understand your genius. It's safe to dismiss all criticism and be 100% sure of your own awesomeness. Haters gonna hate.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:58
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Meinberg posted:That's an important lesson to learn, in a lot of things. Just because you wrote a bad story does not mean that you're a bad writer. Yeah, this is really important to remember or you'll just be paralysed with fear when you try to write. It's your second bad story that makes you a bad writer.
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Aug 19, 2014 09:46
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Peel posted:Yeah, this is really important to remember or you'll just be paralysed with fear when you try to write. There's no such thing as a writer unless you're filling out your tax return. There are words, and they can be bad or good. Write more of the latter and fewer of the former and you're golden.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:58
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Seriously. Two bad stories means you're bad? No. It's a long process.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:00
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He deployed a sophisticated stylistic technique, a real trick of scansion and prosody called a 'joke' e: unless the joke is me??
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Aug 19, 2014 23:16
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General Battuta posted:He deployed a sophisticated stylistic technique, a real trick of scansion and prosody called a 'joke' we are goon the joke is us
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Aug 19, 2014 23:23
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Peel posted:Yeah, this is really important to remember or you'll just be paralysed with fear when you try to write. im in the clear, phew
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Aug 19, 2014 23:40
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Peel posted:Yeah, this is really important to remember or you'll just be paralysed with fear when you try to write. Welp, time to give it up Joke aside though, I think it was Asimov said he wasn't published until his one hundredth attempt (just at writing something specifically to sell) or something like that? We can't all be Ray Bradbury.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:42
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Whoa I must be better than Asimov it only took me three tries :[]
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Aug 20, 2014 00:00
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e: pointless whining
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Aug 20, 2014 00:03
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Hey Battuta I caught your pointless whining before you edited it. Actually I remember right after you got your Tor deal you posted about "hoping in the future you can quit your day job" and I remember thinking that even with a three-book deal with Tor you still have to keep a day job and I felt very sad 
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Aug 20, 2014 00:05
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I like your posts and think you're a cool person  I'm working on a plan to step back from Bungie in some capacity and try some writing full time.
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Aug 20, 2014 00:32
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Thanks  I hope you can write full time...you can inspire us all to know that if we work hard at writing we can have some semblance or hope of writing full time rather than being this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/find-the-thing-youre-most-passionate-about-then-do,31742/
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Aug 20, 2014 01:26
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systran posted:Hey Battuta I caught your pointless whining before you edited it. That is depressing. I wish I loved math and science.
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Aug 20, 2014 01:54
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Oh yeah, we're rolling in the dough in the sciences... oh wait
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Aug 20, 2014 01:57
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