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The_Doctor posted:Wait, it just occurred to me, didn't he already find Gallifrey? It's just sitting on the other side of the cracks in the universe (where the Atraxi also were...?) frozen in a single moment (but also aware and unfrozen enough to (a) send a message out across the cosmos and (b) cobble together an extra set of regenerations for the Doctor). Yes, well... Wibbly wobbly spoilers impossible don't DOCTOR WHO! ... Probably.
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Aug 18, 2014 00:36
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Republican Vampire posted:It's like the Reapers in Mass Effect all over again. "You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it" would be a pretty loving amazing tone for the resurrected PTSD Time Lords to take.
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Aug 18, 2014 00:44
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Republican Vampire posted:Isn't that also an image from the old stories? IIRC when Robin died, Little John and Alan-a-Dale helped him fire his last arrow, and they buried him where it landed. I recall it fired short. So they ended burying him on top of the closet 
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Aug 18, 2014 00:52
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SKY COQ posted:"You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it" would be a pretty loving amazing tone for the resurrected PTSD Time Lords to take. Yeah but they were totally unconvincing. The one in the first game went on and on about how they were beyond human comprehension, but his whole plot got sussed out by your secondary party members in like two minutes. In the second game you had that one whose whole big trump card was giving a mook some unimpressive buffs. IN the third game it kind of looks like they're stooges of some half-bright space baby. They were an unimpressive and unconvincing villain and I seriously don't get people who could take them seriously. I think that Time Lords would look the same if the show brought them back and tried to paint them as all that and a bag of chips. That's why the post-Deadly Assassin take on them was so clever. Yes, they're ludicrously powerful, but no, there's no actual reason why they should be. You can understand it in terms of actual class relations and it doesn't make the mistaking of aiming for and inevitably missing mythic status.
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Aug 18, 2014 01:00
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Republican Vampire posted:Yeah but they were totally unconvincing. The one in the first game went on and on about how they were beyond human comprehension, but his whole plot got sussed out by your secondary party members in like two minutes. In the second game you had that one whose whole big trump card was giving a mook some unimpressive buffs. IN the third game it kind of looks like they're stooges of some half-bright space baby. They were an unimpressive and unconvincing villain and I seriously don't get people who could take them seriously. On the other hand this is a show about space Jesus fighting Robin Hood with a spoon
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Aug 18, 2014 03:18
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SKY COQ posted:"You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it" would be a pretty loving amazing tone for the resurrected PTSD Time Lords to take. Ah yes. "Time Lords".
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Aug 18, 2014 03:22
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SKY COQ posted:On the other hand this is a show about space Jesus fighting Robin Hood with a spoon Why yes. That episode WAS terrible. What a persuasive argument to never try to not be terrible again.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:36
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You're being unfair on Mass Effect 1 - you never understand the motives of the Reapers, just their plan from a mechanical point of view. That kind of Lovecraftian unknowable horror is something that's done well very rarely - especially in the greater fan canon of Lovecraft (including guys like Derleth in this) that miss the point entirely. It is, however, done very very well at the end of The War Games, which remains the best portrayal of the Time Lords.
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Aug 18, 2014 10:15
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You know what the best solution was for the Time Lords? Wiping them out entirely. Thanks a loving bunch Mofftard.
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Aug 18, 2014 12:35
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Harlock posted:They wasted Timothy Dalton as Rassilon. He would have been a great foil for Capaldi Doc as Master. Two ornery old guys going at it. Could also make it comical. The BBC version of Grumpy Old Men. Robert Allam in a moustache as the Master 'Oh gently caress, it's you again; nice Robert Palmer hair you've got.'
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Aug 18, 2014 12:48
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BBC confirm titles and writers for Doctor Who Series 8Various people who aren't Chris Chibnall posted:Episode 1: Deep Breath
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Aug 18, 2014 14:42
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Robot of Sherwood, Mummy on the Orient Express, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, Vampires of Venice, we need a new episode have we done "<Monster> + <Historical Event>" yet? We'll start with the title and go from there.
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Aug 18, 2014 14:47
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A two parter? 
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Aug 18, 2014 14:54
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Moffat is all over this season.
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Aug 18, 2014 14:58
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quote:Mummy On The Orient Express That has to be a callback to the phonecall Eleven got at the end of the Big Bang.
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Aug 18, 2014 15:06
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Senor Tron posted:That has to be a callback to the phonecall Eleven got at the end of the Big Bang. Dammit. I forgot about that. I was about to say, "Well, it can't be worse than The Unicorn and the Wasp". Now that it is a possible Moffat-wank, I'm not so sure.
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Aug 18, 2014 15:26
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wins.
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Harlock posted:A two parter? A two-parter directed by the woman who brought us Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare and Tank Girl. So I really don't know what to expect from THAT.
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Aug 18, 2014 15:43
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Oh my God, are they actually going to do a "Doctor meets William Blake" story down there in episode 10? That's such an exciting prospect I'll be very sad when it doesn't happen/does happen and is poo poo.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:19
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vegetables posted:Oh my God, are they actually going to do a "Doctor meets William Blake" story down there in episode 10? That's such an exciting prospect I'll be very sad when it doesn't happen/does happen and is poo poo. Nope, it's almost definitely the Vashta Narada episode that was rumoured.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:31
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PriorMarcus posted:Nope, it's almost definitely the Vashta Narada episode that was rumoured. Oh, for gently caress's sake. Don't name an episode with a semi-abtruse literary allusion if you're not going to do anything with it!
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Aug 18, 2014 16:35
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MrL_JaKiri posted:You're being unfair on Mass Effect 1 - you never understand the motives of the Reapers, just their plan from a mechanical point of view. That kind of Lovecraftian unknowable horror is something that's done well very rarely - especially in the greater fan canon of Lovecraft (including guys like Derleth in this) that miss the point entirely. I really don't think I am. You might not understand their motives explicitly, but I don't think that you need to in order to go recognize that they're not really that special or intimidating. The problem with aiming for the unknowable and ancient is that it's still conceived of by the human mind. If you file too many 'knowable' edges off, you get something painfully generic and arbitrary. That's what the Reapers are, and I'm afraid that that's how the Time Lords seem to me even during the trial scene. Making them knowable, and contemptible, will always be more interesting than waggling a stick in the direction of a few hoary cliches about things beyond human understanding. To be honest the only time I think it's ever really been pulled off effectively in any medium is Roadside Picnic.
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Aug 18, 2014 17:36
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Republican Vampire posted:The problem with aiming for the unknowable and ancient is that it's still conceived of by the human mind. If you file too many 'knowable' edges off, you get something painfully generic and arbitrary. Not necessarily, Lovecraft has plenty of variety in his works. Admittedly that variety includes a story in which the horrific twist is that a character is descended from black people but you can't have everything. Republican Vampire posted:Making them knowable, and contemptible, will always be more interesting than waggling a stick in the direction of a few hoary cliches about things beyond human understanding. Nah vegetables posted:Oh, for gently caress's sake. Don't name an episode with a semi-abtruse literary allusion if you're not going to do anything with it! The Tyger is not obscure or even semi-obscure. It's appeared in Doctor Who, for a start 
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Aug 18, 2014 17:58
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Not necessarily, Lovecraft has plenty of variety in his works. Admittedly that variety includes a story in which the horrific twist is that a character is descended from black people but you can't have everything.
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Aug 18, 2014 18:14
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Dreams in the Witch House is pretty strongly related to the mythos. However, I agree with the general point.
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Aug 18, 2014 18:19
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It's tied to the Mythos, but it's also a fairly straightforward science fiction story at its heart that has to do with the acquisition of knowledge and wrestling with that rather than big scary unknowable things.
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Aug 18, 2014 18:22
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The Tyger is not obscure or even semi-obscure. It's appeared in Doctor Who, for a start True, but it's not a line most people would identify just by looking at it. You can have an abstruse reference to a well-known thing.
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Aug 18, 2014 18:26
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PriorMarcus posted:Dreams in the Witch House is pretty strongly related to the mythos. The "mythos" isn't really a thing, Lovecraft just wrote lots of weird stories about a horrible amoral world and them being in a coherent or at least collected universe of good and evil is something that arose after his death, almost entirely due to the influence of August Derleth (who admittedly we have to largely thank for saving them from the dustbin of history). Arthur Machen's another, less personally disgusting and less confusing-do-to-corporate-influence, example.
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Aug 18, 2014 18:31
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To be fair to Lovecraft didn't he in fact retract a lot of his racist views in later life?
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Aug 18, 2014 18:33
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The Music of Eric Zann is definitely about horrible things beyond man's ken
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Aug 18, 2014 18:33
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PriorMarcus posted:To be fair to Lovecraft didn't he in fact retract a lot of his racist views in later life? I see no reason to be fair to Lovecraft.
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Aug 18, 2014 18:36
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The Music of Eric Zann is definitely about horrible things beyond man's ken But those horrible things are not personified and brought into the story. They just exist on the fringes as what is essentially window dressing. That's why the Time Lords and Reapers fall flat. They're brought into the story in a way that demands specificity. Specificity diminishes them. But without it, they're just generic ciphers.
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Aug 18, 2014 18:44
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PriorMarcus posted:To be fair to Lovecraft didn't he in fact retract a lot of his racist views in later life? Lovecraft is a strange, strange man. I'm still not sure how much of his racism was honestly held by him, how much was born from his general and LONG list of psychosis, and how much was just culture and upbringing.
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Aug 18, 2014 19:12
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Republican Vampire posted:That's why the Time Lords and Reapers fall flat. They're brought into the story in a way that demands specificity. Not so much in The War Games, you learn very very little about the Time Lords other than a) the Doctor being terrified of them and b) the best efforts of the villains of the serial are just a trivial joke to them.
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Aug 18, 2014 19:53
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Irish Joe posted:Moffat is all over this season. He did six episodes in Season 5, too. I wonder if he's so involved because it's a new Doctor again. I also wonder if they've adopted American-style credits, in that if the showrunner comes in and does a rewrite, he gets a credit, too. (Sort of like how RTD rewrote Phil Ford on The Waters of Mars.)
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Aug 18, 2014 20:38
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Did they use music from Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves in that episode? I guess that makes sense, since I think they used music from The Dark Knight in Deep Breath.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:25
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Rita Repulsa posted:Robot of Sherwood, Mummy on the Orient Express, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, Vampires of Venice, we need a new episode have we done "<Monster> + <Historical Event>" yet? We'll start with the title and go from there. You have a funny definition of "historical event".
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Aug 19, 2014 02:17
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thrawn527 posted:You have a funny definition of "historical event". I'll say, Venice and Sherwood are places!
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Aug 19, 2014 02:21
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And the Orient Express is a train.
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Aug 19, 2014 09:33
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It would be cool if Mummy on the Orient Express somehow tied into Pyramids of Mars.
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Aug 19, 2014 12:01
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Tace Vim posted:It would be cool if Mummy on the Orient Express somehow tied into Pyramids of Mars. I prefer it when nothing ties to anything, to be honest. Too much continuity makes the universe seem small; have like a million aliens active in Ancient Egypt that have nothing to do with each other whatsoever.
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Aug 19, 2014 12:53
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