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Decius posted:At least with AvX they managed to make you able to argue both sides without looking like a complete lunatic unlike Civil War's Pro-Registration. I'd say both events went off the rails pretty quick in terms of making both sides of the argument look terrible. It was completely reasonable to think at the start of Civil War that sometype of Superhero legislation should be in effect to help regulate those people who have powers that can destroy schools. Then off course the segue quickly into locking people up and internment camps/ forced militarization. While at the same time letting Spider-Man run around letting Spider-Man put muggers in the hospital with his super strength is kind of unreasonable as well, but that got thrown out the window because Stark and Richards just cloned Thor for no good reason and are apparently down with subduing their opposition with fatal levels of violence.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:42
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PaybackJack posted:I'd say both events went off the rails pretty quick in terms of making both sides of the argument look terrible. It was completely reasonable to think at the start of Civil War that sometype of Superhero legislation should be in effect to help regulate those people who have powers that can destroy schools. Then off course the segue quickly into locking people up and internment camps/ forced militarization. While at the same time letting Spider-Man run around letting Spider-Man put muggers in the hospital with his super strength is kind of unreasonable as well, but that got thrown out the window because Stark and Richards just cloned Thor for no good reason and are apparently down with subduing their opposition with fatal levels of violence. They had them trying to arrest Captain America before the law even came into effect. They also revealed that Tony hired people to make registration look better.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:51
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Cyclops plan was essentially what ended up happening, prepare Hope and pray she doesn't gently caress up and maybe she'll even undo what Wanda done hosed up. The Avengers plans were to kidnap/murder a teenager and when that didn't work have Iron Man fire a very big gun at the Phoenix. They're as responsible for what happened to Xavier as anyone. Also Cyclops' time travelling son specifically told him not to trust the Avengers with Hope.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:56
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AvX wasn't really both sides have their points. It just shifted from the Avengers being douchebags to the Phoenix 5 being douchebags.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:59
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Iron Fist was right.
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Aug 18, 2014 17:09
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I liked House of M ok. But maybe it's because I was a big believer in "No More Mutants." And I thought we got a lot of good stories out of it, although the kind of wussed out taking it where it looked like it was going to go at first.
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Aug 18, 2014 17:47
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bobkatt013 posted:They had them trying to arrest Captain America before the law even came into effect. They also revealed that Tony hired people to make registration look better. The point being that both events started off(as in before the actual comics were released) with a viewpoint that was somewhat defensible from either side of the argument, and then bad writing or whatever you want to call it turned both events into "your favorite superheroes act unheroically and do dumb things".
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Aug 18, 2014 18:12
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PaybackJack posted:The point being that both events started off(as in before the actual comics were released) with a viewpoint that was somewhat defensible from either side of the argument, and then bad writing or whatever you want to call it turned both events into "your favorite superheroes act unheroically and do dumb things". I am not sure if it was mentioned in the main book, but I know that in one of them they said their plan was not to kill Hope it was to bring her off planet so when the Phoenix came it would not destroy the planet. It was only Wolverine who wanted to kill at first then changed his mind. In a way their plan did work as they did bring Hope off planet and that made it possible for her to learn how to contain it.
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Aug 18, 2014 19:37
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bobkatt013 posted:They had them trying to arrest Captain America before the law even came into effect. They also revealed that Tony hired people to make registration look better. I don't think public relations is a crime.
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Aug 18, 2014 21:36
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Was there really a reason the Phoenix Five needed to be stopped? It seemed like they were bringing about positive changes in the world, but the Avengers decided decided they didn't trust them?
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Aug 18, 2014 22:33
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MY ABACUS! posted:Was there really a reason the Phoenix Five needed to be stopped? It seemed like they were bringing about positive changes in the world, but the Avengers decided decided they didn't trust them? Crab whales and destroying countries.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:36
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bobkatt013 posted:Crab whales and destroying countries. Maybe it would have eased tensions a bit if they fixed Wakanda after Namor smashed it. Maybe Cyclops should have had Rachel Grey train Hope in being a phoenix vessel instead of just punching her a lot. Maybe the illuminati should have used their gems to help the phoenix five keep their sanity. I'm not sure how it even made sense for the phoenix to come back after what happened in phoenix: endsong.
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Aug 19, 2014 03:21
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bobkatt013 posted:I am not sure if it was mentioned in the main book, but I know that in one of them they said their plan was not to kill Hope it was to bring her off planet so when the Phoenix came it would not destroy the planet. It was only Wolverine who wanted to kill at first then changed his mind. In a way their plan did work as they did bring Hope off planet and that made it possible for her to learn how to contain it.
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Aug 19, 2014 03:29
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Look we can sit here arguing all day about who was right in an event designed specifically around writing both teams to be stupider in order to justify smashing the action figures together but frankly both sides were really really dumb.Maxwell Adams posted:I'm not sure how it even made sense for the phoenix to come back after what happened in phoenix: endsong. Well you see...
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Aug 19, 2014 04:33
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Maxwell Adams posted:I'm not sure how it even made sense for the phoenix to come back after what happened in phoenix: endsong. The Phoenix Force, much like everyone who read the book, has decided that Phoenix: Endsong didn't happen because it was terrible.
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Aug 19, 2014 04:39
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:The Phoenix Force, much like everyone who read the book, has decided that Phoenix: Endsong didn't happen because it was terrible. It was a lot better than AvX.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:00
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Somewhere there's an alternate AvxX story where the writers weren't blatantly forced halfway through to not make Hope the Phoenix/reincarnation of Jean Gray and maybe that story didn't suck. Instead we got 2 deus ex machinas shouting a catchphrase and magically magicking up more mutants.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:18
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notthegoatseguy posted:Somewhere there's an alternate AvxX story where the writers weren't blatantly forced halfway through to not make Hope the Phoenix/reincarnation of Jean Gray and maybe that story didn't suck. Instead we got 2 deus ex machinas shouting a catchphrase and magically magicking up more mutants. Hope isn't the reincarnation of Jean. That was the original plan but they changed their minds because eventually the real Jean will be back.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:21
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notthegoatseguy posted:Somewhere there's an alternate AvxX story where the writers weren't blatantly forced halfway through to not make Hope the Phoenix/reincarnation of Jean Gray and maybe that story didn't suck. Instead we got 2 deus ex machinas shouting a catchphrase and magically magicking up more mutants. If that was the plan (and it was, at least at one point when Messiah Complex was being written), it was changed well before AvX was a thing. AvX had other problems.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:42
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Stories about the Phoenix peaked in Excalibur #50, anyway.
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Aug 19, 2014 09:03
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notthegoatseguy posted:Somewhere there's an alternate AvxX story where the writers weren't blatantly forced halfway through to not make Hope the Phoenix/reincarnation of Jean Gray and maybe that story didn't suck. Instead we got 2 deus ex machinas shouting a catchphrase and magically magicking up more mutants. Something you setup for like 6 issues is not a deus ex machina.
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Aug 19, 2014 13:01
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Ok guys, making an honest effort to start reading xbooks. I started into adjectiveless X-Men (all girl team) and really liked it. Also thought Battle of the Atom was good despite that seeming to be a generally disliked book (I don't have much to compare it to though). Have been listening to Rachel and Miles X-plain the X-men and picked up the Magik miniseries on their review making the character sound awesome. So I have totally found a character I want to read more involving. I tried searching on Unlimited by character but that just seems to be their appearances and not really their runs. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask for specifics in the megathread.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:30
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Metal Loaf posted:Stories about the Phoenix peaked in Excalibur #50, anyway.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:32
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lokipunk posted:Ok guys, making an honest effort to start reading xbooks. I started into adjectiveless X-Men (all girl team) and really liked it. Also thought Battle of the Atom was good despite that seeming to be a generally disliked book (I don't have much to compare it to though). Have been listening to Rachel and Miles X-plain the X-men and picked up the Magik miniseries on their review making the character sound awesome. So I have totally found a character I want to read more involving. I tried searching on Unlimited by character but that just seems to be their appearances and not really their runs. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask for specifics in the megathread. After the miniseries, Magik is a main character in the New Mutants; I think she joins the team between #10 and #20 (for all that narrows it down) but can't remember the specific issue. She's with the team for about 60 straight issues then she's phased out just before (?) Liefeld came aboard. redbackground posted:This man knows what's up. I'd say Excalibur #50 is one of my favourite single issues of an X-book ever; I might like New Mutants Annual #3 slightly more, but not by very much. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 15:32
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Metal Loaf posted:Stories about the Phoenix peaked in Excalibur #50, anyway. I'm can agree with this. Although, I have some fondness for what followed with Davis, because I think it wraps the entire Phoenix thing up in a neat bow and actually did a good job of giving an underlying reason to all the weirdness in Excalibur. Rick fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 15:55
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Yeah, I completely forgot about the subsequent story where Rachel reconciles herself with the Phoenix Force, fights Galactus in deep space, then goes back to Earth in the Dark Phoenix costume because it's much cooler-looking than the green one. That was pretty good as well, though I guess it was more of a subplot to the story about R.C.X. and the Warpies.
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Aug 19, 2014 16:04
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Yeah, Magik doesn't have a lot of solo focus, but just reading that Claremont New Mutants run will get you a lot of her and also a lot of really good comics. The run with Sienkiewicz on art (Demon Bear, etc.) are some of my favorite comics. Probably the biggest role on a larger stage she ever took was in Inferno, which might be worth reading if you're interested in an early historical instance of incredibly messy crossover nonsense.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:37
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As event comics go I don't think AvX was that bad. Admittedly this is a very low bar for me, exceeded because AvX managed to do a few fun things in spite of the character assassination and easy out of an ending. The Phoenix Five was a great twist that somehow wasn't spoiled months in advance, crab whales are also fun and so is smashing your toys together. It's nothing brilliant though and Gillon's wrap up was better than anything in the main series.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:55
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Stagger_Lee posted:incredibly messy crossover nonsense. I have some idea of what I am getting into with X-Men. Thanks for the recommendations, due to some changes at work I now I have tons of time to just read.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:55
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Stagger_Lee posted:Yeah, Magik doesn't have a lot of solo focus, but just reading that Claremont New Mutants run will get you a lot of her and also a lot of really good comics. The run with Sienkiewicz on art (Demon Bear, etc.) are some of my favorite comics. Magik: Storm & Illyana New Mutants (She doesn't show up until New Mutants Classic Volume 2, but it might be worth it to just start with New Mutants Classic Volume 1) A few people on here have talked about New Mutants being their favorite superhero run, and I think I agree - lasts until Classic Volume 7 I think, and you could probably skip from there to: X-Men Inferno - kind of a Magik centric event, not the best comic, but I didn't hate it New X-Men Quest for Magik (Collected in New X-Men Childhood's End Volume 5 (wow this is selling for a lot on Amazon, not terribly important)) New Mutants Volumes 1-3 by Zeb Wells - Also really, really good, probably better if you have read New Mutants classic Fear Itself X-Men (Unlike New Mutants and New X-Men bad art, but still good, really, really fun) Uncanny X-Men Volume 1-4 (by Kieron Gillen) (Really good, continuation from Fear Itself X-Men) Avengers versus X-Men Consequences kind of finishes Gillen's Uncanny X-Men and sets up: Uncanny X-Men (Brian Michael Bendis) - coming out right now, I'm not the biggest fan of it Edit: Volumes 1-3 of New Mutants by Zeb Wells, not DnA! Fritzler fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 18:00
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Fritzler posted:Yeah, I'm a pretty big fan of Magik, and I can tell you about everything she is in or worth reading: I will be getting these dled tonight. Thanks!
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Aug 19, 2014 18:09
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The new New Mutants from 2009 starts with Zeb Wells bringing back Illyana. It's some of the best X comics of the past 5 years. He goes all out on it and really gets in touch with the characters. This run also brings back Legion and starts his fixing process. There are two quality dips, when he has to contend with the Second Coming crossover and the last arc feels a bit rushed. Otherwise this seriously is a book everyone should've read. DnA do a serviceable job afterwards and have some great moments (the Magma goes on a date issue is loving classic) but the second half of the series never hits the stride that Wells had. Honestly, before this, all I had heard of from Wells was his Robot Chicken work, afterward, I will pick up anything that man writes; I still haven't been disappointed.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:10
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RevKrule posted:The new New Mutants from 2009 starts with Zeb Wells bringing back Illyana. It's some of the best X comics of the past 5 years. He goes all out on it and really gets in touch with the characters. This run also brings back Legion and starts his fixing process.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:37
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Fritzler posted:Wait yes, I totally lied. It is Zeb Wells New Mutants, not DnA and Andy Lanning! I'm editing my post. I hope you see this before you order! The Dan and Andy New Mutants isn't bad like I said, it's just a huge quality step down from Wells who knocks it out of the park. And again, one of my fave issues is the Magma date issue (one of the best one and dones in recent memory). However, they don't deal as much with Illyana and her poo poo, the more deal with team dynamic and missions.
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Aug 19, 2014 19:51
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RevKrule posted:The Dan and Andy New Mutants isn't bad like I said, it's just a huge quality step down from Wells who knocks it out of the park. And again, one of my fave issues is the Magma date issue (one of the best one and dones in recent memory). However, they don't deal as much with Illyana and her poo poo, the more deal with team dynamic and missions.
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Aug 19, 2014 19:52
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Does Illyana Rasputin have an accent? Or did she lose it in the hell dimension?
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Aug 20, 2014 16:07
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If she had an accent, you can rest assured that Claremont would've gone out of his way to make sure we knew about it.
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Aug 20, 2014 16:32
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We need to buy Peter David a big giant "Thank You" cake for undoing that dumb stuff that Dan Slott had Quicksilver do back in his run on Mighty Avengers. Probably the best issue on the series thus far, good stuff. I was worred because the last arc was a little boring. I also am sad he moved away from Gambit/Danger because Peter David writing a Gambit/Danger/Warlock love triangle would have been amazing. There's a chance we'll still see it but it looks like Gambit's stuck feuding with the head of the company. Doug trying not to become evil future Doug and kinda of being a mentor to the new little girl was good as well.
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Aug 20, 2014 16:44
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PaybackJack posted:We need to buy Peter David a big giant "Thank You" cake for undoing that dumb stuff that Dan Slott had Quicksilver do back in his run on Mighty Avengers. Probably the best issue on the series thus far, good stuff. I was worred because the last arc was a little boring. I also am sad he moved away from Gambit/Danger because Peter David writing a Gambit/Danger/Warlock love triangle would have been amazing. There's a chance we'll still see it but it looks like Gambit's stuck feuding with the head of the company. Doug trying not to become evil future Doug and kinda of being a mentor to the new little girl was good as well. What dumb stuff? I sort of liked him blaming the Skrulls for his behavior, and his daughter calling him on his poo poo. Am I forgetting something else he did?
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Aug 20, 2014 16:47
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bobkatt013 posted:What dumb stuff? I sort of liked him blaming the Skrulls for his behavior, and his daughter calling him on his poo poo. Am I forgetting something else he did? That's it. It was completely out of character from how David had left Quicksilver's character and was a complete step backward. I'm glad we're back to a state where he's able to keep moving the character forward instead of sticking in the "Quicksilver is an egotistical prick who doesn't care about anyone but himself" phase. It was fine that his daughter called him on it, I liked that aspect too, but him doing it in the first place was dumb.
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Aug 20, 2014 17:00
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