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HiveCommander posted:Armageddon looks like a hex-based Advance Wars to me, especially with the dude-to-tank scale ad all. It's literally Panzer General 40k.
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Aug 19, 2014 04:20
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Someone should make a Catachan army where all of their uniforms and headbands are painted white instead of green/red, so they're all wearing karate gi; it will be called... Grimkata.
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Aug 19, 2014 04:42
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For anyone that plays or knows Dark Eldar well, I seem to read a lot of bad things about wyches. Are they viable at all? If I want to run an actual wych cult army, would that be in a pretty bad spot (assuming friendly, but competitive games)? I'm making lists right now and they (Dark Eldar) seem to have so many toys but I'm really afraid that all my favorites are not good. On a side note, I think a Space Wolves counts-as Celestial Lions (with lions instead of wolves, obviously) would be badass.
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Aug 19, 2014 04:56
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i Think five wyches with haywire grenades in a venom can kill tanks dead, i have seen them kill imperial knights also.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:11
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:For anyone that plays or knows Dark Eldar well, I seem to read a lot of bad things about wyches. Are they viable at all? As Haywire grenade delivery systems? Sure. Overwatch is not kind to their save, rendering their assaults toothless.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:16
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Hopefully the new codex gives them darklight grenades or something that lets them assault without overwatch. They seem amazing once they get into assault but... that seems really hard to do.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:19
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Dark Eldar also seem to have a really steep learning curve, at least that is the impression I get. Also, their Codex is rather outdated.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:21
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Post 9-11 User posted:I think I have it figured out: the old sixteen model Guardian boxed set had enough helmet heads to equip all the models plus an extra helmet. I got all my Guardians from the Eldar Battle Force, and those should be exactly the same sprues right? I've got some I haven't done yet here, each sprue of 5 Guardians has 4 helmets and a bare head. On the other hand, the one squad of Guardians I've already made has 10 helmets, plus the 2 support platform guys with their special helmets, my other 4 Guardian sprues are all intact, and I don't remember where I get the extra helmets from 
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Aug 19, 2014 05:23
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:Hopefully the new codex gives them darklight grenades or something that lets them assault without overwatch. They seem amazing once they get into assault but... that seems really hard to do. I'd honestly rather a workable webway portal system that allows charging from, or something that gives a more reliable charging range since failing a charge really hammers the point home that they cannot sustain any counter-fire.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:29
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:Hopefully the new codex gives them darklight grenades or something that lets them assault without overwatch. They seem amazing once they get into assault but... that seems really hard to do. I actually think one pretty small change would help Wyches a lot- just make their 4++ apply during the assault phase, rather than only against CC hits. Suddenly you're shrugging off most Overwatch pretty easily, even Flamers and the like; having your transport explode or get hit with a template is still total balls, but that's a problem of its own. If they did that and cut the price on the Wych weapons (10pts for d6-1 S3 WS4 attacks is balls) I think Wyches could end up being fairly respectable.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:29
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AbusePuppy posted:I actually think one pretty small change would help Wyches a lot- just make their 4++ apply during the assault phase, rather than only against CC hits. Suddenly you're shrugging off most Overwatch pretty easily, even Flamers and the like; having your transport explode or get hit with a template is still total balls, but that's a problem of its own. If they did that and cut the price on the Wych weapons (10pts for d6-1 S3 WS4 attacks is balls) I think Wyches could end up being fairly respectable. I almost said this, but couldn't really find a reason for why it would work that way (fluffwise), so went with something that fit a bit better. Not that GW thinks that way, though. Even something like letting wounds be taken from the back when assaulting would be (not as) useful, under the idea that they are flipping around on the charge and jumping over eachother to get into combat. Wyches are really, really cool in concept.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:41
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I'd say give Wyches a throwable grenade that causes pinning since that negates Overwatch, but when most units in the game are LD8-10 it's not gonna happen often.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:17
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i really think that dark eldar are really strong now with the shift of the meta back to mech. They're hard to learn at first but one you know how to play them the are really strong.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:35
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:For anyone that plays or knows Dark Eldar well, I seem to read a lot of bad things about wyches. Are they viable at all? If I want to run an actual wych cult army, would that be in a pretty bad spot (assuming friendly, but competitive games)? I don't remember if it was you or not but someone not too long ago was asking about DE unit comp--basically the only time I find success with wyches is when I use a large squad in a Raider with a succubus with haywire grenades of course. They do not really work with MSU tactics--splitting up a 10 wych raider squad into 2 wych venom squads costs you points and will leave you with an unimpressive number of wyches after over watch. Succubus works because you can assign her a wound or two during overwatch which can translate to several extra attacks because you have more models surviving. She's cheap as hell, too, and all around generally my favorite HQ for DE. This is a pretty expensive and quite fragile squad so you need to choose your targets carefully--for example charging them into a pile of Orks or Fire Warriors will be a waste since you might as well just shoot those with splinter rifles. Good targets for them include but are not limited to big Terminator squads, bike squads, and in a pinch a tank--ten haywire grenades and a darklance will be at least enough to make your opponent respect the squad. If you can get your girls into a scrap with an expensive elite unit, they will usually come out ahead by virtue of their buckets of dice and high initiative and WS. My girls are usually the centerpiece of my army--the female captain of the only Raider in a sea of Venoms and ravagers. They're intimidating but their narrow use means building an army out of them is not a good idea. By extension of this train of thought an entire wych cult army would not fare too well--they're not efficient at dealing with masses of troops and blood bride squads are pretty awful (although the one time I ran a squad they ended up killing Belial and his entire retinue of deathwing knights) and I'm not sure what else you could take in a wych cult. Again with DE listbuilding you have to be pretty ruthless about applying the criteria of speed and power--lots of the de "toys" you are probably thinking of are cumbersome and slow. I have always sort of wanted to make a pain circus army with haemonculi and engines etc., and just farm pain tokens til the cows come home, but it doesn't seem like it would work very well.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:52
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SoftDrink posted:i really think that dark eldar are really strong now with the shift of the meta back to mech. They're hard to learn at first but one you know how to play them the are really strong. I think the existence of TFCs, Wave Serpents, and other medium-strength weapons hurts them a lot- DE going second are often gonna lose 5+ transports before they can do anything. And, sadly, Dark Lances got comparatively worse against tanks because you now will have to strip off HP most of the time to kill them, rather than having a semi-reliable Explosion result to kill things. Lacking any good RoF weapons against tanks, that puts Dark Eldar in a pretty bad place when it comes to killing 6+ transports, especially the AV12 ones like Serpents and Drop Pods. They certainly can win games- I've seen some very good players running DE, and they still hit like a truck when done right- but DE just have a lot of hurdles to overcome if they want things to go their way right now.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:52
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SRM posted:I'd say give Wyches a throwable grenade that causes pinning since that negates Overwatch, but when most units in the game are LD8-10 it's not gonna happen often. The Phantasm Grenade Launcher upgrade gives the entire unit Assault and Defensive Grenades. Defensive Grenades can be thrown now and cause a Blind test if they hit instead of giving +1 cover within 8". It's 20 points to get the "sergeant" and the grenade launcher but that's not so bad given that you get LD9, Assault Grenades and the ability to drop an entire unit down to BS1/WS1 if they fail their Blind check which can really mess with armies like Orks and Necrons. IF I was going to use Wyches I'd make sure to take one just for the utility but they are still kinda pretty bad though. Speaking of Defensive Grenades; can BS0 models still throw "Blast" grenades in the shooting phase even though they could never actually pass a shooting "to-hit" roll? Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 06:56
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Sharzak posted:I don't remember if it was you or not Yeah, it was me. I posted about not being sure what army to play, but everyone (you included) convinced me to just play what I want (which is DE), and not worry about whether it's good or not for now. As usual, I appreciate all of the advice. You seem to have guessed that the toys I'm talking about are things like the pain engines - they just look wicked fun to paint. AbusePuppy posted:They certainly can win games- I've seen some very good players running DE, and they still hit like a truck when done right- but DE just have a lot of hurdles to overcome if they want things to go their way right now. AbusePuppy, you continue to give really good insight on what works well. You mentioned to me before that them being battlebros with Eldar can make up for a lot of their shortcomings, and that's attractive because I would like to play Eldar as well. I'm flying them solo for now, though, and don't really mind an uphill learning curve. Is there anything you've seen that works really well on the battlefield?
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Aug 19, 2014 07:02
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Pacheeco posted:Speaking of Defensive Grenades; can BS0 models still throw "Blast" grenades in the shooting phase even though they could never actually pass a shooting "to-hit" roll? Units with BS0 are not allowed to make shooting attacks of any kind, so no. dichloroisocyanuric posted:AbusePuppy, you continue to give really good insight on what works well. You mentioned to me before that them being battlebros with Eldar can make up for a lot of their shortcomings, and that's attractive because I would like to play Eldar as well. I'm flying them solo for now, though, and don't really mind an uphill learning curve. Is there anything you've seen that works really well on the battlefield? DE suffer from a couple main problems that Eldar shore up. Farseers, with their multitude of defensive buffs (Fortune, Invisibility, Shrouding, Forewarning, etc) can improve DE's survivability a ton and can also shore up other issues as well by using Guide/Prescience or Maelific powers. Eldar also have strong mechanized options to complement the main DE functional build right now, and since S6-7 shots in high numbers are exactly what DE are lacking and Eldar possess in abundance, it's something of a match made in heaven. Wraithguys can also provide a survivable scoring component that DE lack. Cheap, mobile scoring units like Jetbikes are another big boon for DE, since their own troops tend to be pretty suicidal. Essentially, all of the good stuff in Eldar complements Dark Eldar fairly effectively. Of course, Eldar have "dead" choices of their own, but most folks are pretty well aware of what those are already, so it's hardly an issue.
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Aug 19, 2014 07:34
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AbusePuppy posted:Units with BS0 are not allowed to make shooting attacks of any kind, so no. Yeah, I finally found where it actually says this in the new rulebook; it's on P.32 even though the reference page (P.9) doesn't specifically say "Models with BS0 can't make shooting attacks". I guess my Beasts of Nurgle don't get the benefit of being able to blind things. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 07:40
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Helmholz posted:Just signed up for the WH40k: Armageddon - PC beta here. I guess it's trying to be a close adaptation of the tabletop game, which is what I've been looking for forever. Is there anything out there that comes close? Who wants to get some play-by-e-mail going when this thing releases? 
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Aug 19, 2014 07:54
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All this DEldar talk has me itching to paint up my own pain cult. That new codex can't come quick enough!
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Aug 19, 2014 07:56
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AbusePuppy posted:Units with BS0 are not allowed to make shooting attacks of any kind, so no. Comedy option- put a navigator into a thunderhawk/storm eagle/assault ram. Enjoy immunity for all snap shots or high volume BS1 shooting (the navagator reduces all incoming BS by 1, so that means you cant shoot at it unless you have skyfire)
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Aug 19, 2014 08:19
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BULBASAUR posted:Comedy option- put a navigator into a thunderhawk/storm eagle/assault ram. Enjoy immunity for all snap shots or high volume BS1 shooting (the navagator reduces all incoming BS by 1, so that means you cant shoot at it unless you have skyfire) Unfortunately this doesn't work... negative/positive modifiers are applied before set modifiers. So it would go something like: BS4 > BS3 > BS1 and the shooter would snapfire as normal.
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Aug 19, 2014 08:43
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So... Psylencers have the Force special rule now. That's right, ranged force weapons. Same profile as before, just no longer wounding Daemons on a 4+. Psycannons became Salvo 2/4 as expected. Heavy Psycannon has a dual profile, area saturation is the same (Heavy 1, large blast) but has a Salvo 3/6 option too. Purifiers inflict Soulblaze on all melee attacks, Incinerators have Soulblaze as well. Librarians are cheeeeeeeeeaaaap. We're talking ML3 (still in TDA) for 135pts. Brother-Captains are ML1 and 150pts, can upgrade to a Grand Master for 35pts which gives them ML2 and +1A. Nemesis Force Weapons have a few reworks. No more +1 invuln in melee for swords, halberds are +1S instead of +2I and the warding stave is +2S, AP4 and grants Adamantium Will. AMA, I guess.
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Aug 19, 2014 09:54
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Are Psyflemen still A Thing?
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Aug 19, 2014 10:00
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WAR FOOT posted:Are Psyflemen still A Thing? Unfortunately not. Also, only Psychic Pilots are Dreads, but our other vehicles are no longer 5pts more because of it.
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Aug 19, 2014 10:03
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Are termies cheaper? What about paladins, any changes there (such as having a squad leader at least)? Does Draigo now have an AP2 weapon? Is the dreadknight cheaper with the teleporter than before?
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Aug 19, 2014 10:13
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Anomandaris posted:Are termies cheaper? What about paladins, any changes there (such as having a squad leader at least)? The Titansword is +3S and AP2, all NFW have Daemonbane (successful Force activation grants rerolls to wound and armour pen against Daemons. NDK is a Monstrous Creature (character), same base cost, PT is now 30pts.Hammer is 5pts and greatsword is 10. Heavy Incinerator is now 20pts, the other two dropped by 5pts each.
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Aug 19, 2014 10:21
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xtothez posted:Unfortunately this doesn't work... negative/positive modifiers are applied before set modifiers. So it would go something like: BS4 > BS3 > BS1 and the shooter would snapfire as normal. Looks like there is a clause in there that overides it anyway: "The Ballistic Skill of a model firing a Snap Shot can only be modified by special rules that specifically state that they affect Snap Shots" Booooo
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Aug 19, 2014 10:23
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What grenades are still in? Do Terminators still have them? Did all the unit's psy powers stay the same and characters have access to which lore?
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Aug 19, 2014 10:23
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raverrn posted:What grenades are still in? Do Terminators still have them? Only the Psyk-out grenades. Now work like defensive grenades vs Psykers, but when thrown cause a Perils on a random Psyker in any squad hit by the blast (limited to once per grenade, but doesn't have to hit the Psyker, just anyone in his unit). All GK infantry (TDA-included) have frag, krag and psyk grenades still. BCs, GMs and Librarians can access Sanctic, Divinity, Pyro, Telepathy and Telekinesis. The rest all have Banishment and Hammerhand by default. Purifiers also have Cleansing Flame. Draigo has Gate of Infinity, Purge Soul, Hammerhand and Banishment, Dreads and NDK have Banishment and Sanctuary. Stern's got Hammerhand and Sanctuary but Zone of Banishment has been changed to turn Banshment from from one unit (of Daemons) within 24" to all Daemons within 12".
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Aug 19, 2014 10:32
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HiveCommander posted:Yes, no, but Apothecary upgrade is only 20pts now (and makes him a character). As reported, NFWs now cost points to upgrade. Halberds are 2pts, Falcions are 4, staff is 5 and hammers are 10. The hammer costs don't sound so good, but the rest of the changes sound great. Who cares about missing the puny Coteaz now that you can take a ML3 librarian with a 2+/5++ at just a few points over. I like the psilencer change as well, too bad you cannot hurt Wraithknights with them. But having a Riptide/Tyranid MC die after taking one wound (albeit at 6+ and after Armour and a psychic test) sounds like a great WTF moment. I'm thinking of reviving my Draigowing with some Codex:SM support sprinkled around, something like: Librarian Draigo 10 paladins 0-10 termies 2 Dreadknights Then for all the points left add a SM captain on a bike, a small bike troop and two Stormtalons. This is probably not feasible and a lot of points to boot, but it's just great fun to have two nigh-immortal HQs + 2 MCs that will eat whatever they get in contact with (unless they get shot to pieces, which is what will most likely happen).
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Aug 19, 2014 10:42
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Shoot, between point drops and having Sanctuary Dreadknights are getting pushed HARD. Last ones for me: Do Grand Masters have 3 wounds still, and is there a Eternal Warrior relic? Hell, are there any cool relics?
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Aug 19, 2014 10:44
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Wait so no modification to invulns from nfw? So are they same priced terminators with just 5++ invulns? Bah.
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Aug 19, 2014 10:47
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Oh holy poo poo I didn't know GK were actually this close to coming out.
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Aug 19, 2014 10:53
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Don't Force Halberds by default give you +2 initiative in the book? If not thats made the expensive Space Marines much easier to kill in combat since they're not going before the majority of opponents.
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Aug 19, 2014 10:53
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Anomandaris posted:*army idea* 1 Grand Master 1 Brother Captain 3 Strike squads 3 Terminator squads 2 Interceptor squads 2 Purgation squads 1 Dreadnought 1 NDK ...which gives you Rites of Teleportation and let the formation manifest Warp Charges on a 3+ as long as the GM is alive. A shame you can't have a Librarian in there though. raverrn posted:Shoot, between point drops and having Sanctuary Dreadknights are getting pushed HARD. The Soul Glaive is a 20pt halberd that lets you reroll failed Force tests, and while Force is in effect, the weilder rerolls to hit, wound and armour pen rolls. The Bone Shard of Solor is 10pts gives the weilder a 3++ while within 12" of a Daemon, increasing to a 2++ for Daemons of Khorne within the same distance. Domina Liber Daemonica (25pts) grants 1 extra psychic power but has to be rolled on the Sanctic chart. The bearer and all friendly GK units within 6" reroll 1s on psychic tests from Sanctic. Cuirass of Sacrifice (15pts) is TDA with FnP and IWND which is pretty cool (I didn't notice it gives FnP at first glance). The Nemesis Banner is a 12" Fearless bubble for GKs, GKs in the squad get +1A and Daemons treat the fearless bubble as dangerous terrain, but is 35pts and only available for Paladins (as is the Brotherhood banner). serious gaylord posted:Don't Force Halberds by default give you +2 initiative in the book? Oh, Librarians have a Warding staff by default. Good luck targeting anything near him with psychic powers, he's almost always going to get a 3+ DtW (rerolling ones). HiveCommander fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 10:59
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Too bad about the psyflemen :-( What's the range of the new psycannons? Is there still psybolts for stormbolters?
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Aug 19, 2014 11:49
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So Draigo gets Gate eh? this is quite a boon.
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Aug 19, 2014 11:57
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Psybolts are gone entirely, and Psycannons are still 24". 5 points cheaper on GKT (20pts), and 15pts for PAGK of all flavours. BCs and GMs still have access to special weapons, and pay GKT-price for them (no more BS-tax  )Cataphract posted:So Draigo gets Gate eh? this is quite a boon. HiveCommander fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 12:03
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