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PyRosflam posted:At what point does the Military get called in? As much as I would love for these kitted-out psychos to have a taste of what actual war is like, if the military gets called then so many people are probably going to die.
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Aug 19, 2014 14:59
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I'm sure if you ask any member of that police force they feel the cop in question did nothing wrong. Justice is on their side and they shouldn't have to back down to an undemocratic mob!
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Aug 19, 2014 14:59
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Oxxidation posted:As much as I would love for these kitted-out psychos to have a taste of what actual war is like, if the military gets called then so many people are probably going to die. Neither the cops nor the NG are going to go Assad on the protestors.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:01
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PyRosflam posted:At what point does the Military get called in? Yesterday. quote:Why in hell do the cops not realise they have a 1992 Riot on there hands. Well it's lasted several days longer and killed a whole lot less people than LA. quote:At this point I would not doubt that local military bases are on standby, and the military IS NOT like the cops and will not put up with cops pointing guns at them or anyone else. (Do not point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot). Also, military members FAR better represent the population they come from. The Guard has already been called out, active duty is not going to be called out and dude they come from all over the country do you think that everyone in the military get stationed down the street from their mom's house? Stultus Maximus fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 15:01
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My Q-Face posted:Pretty sure it was going during Prohibition too.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:04
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Hopefully the grand jury indicts Wilson and the mike brown protestors will calm down but it may be too late - the people engaging with the cops aren't there for mike brown, they're there because of police militarization and may continue attempting to draw out the police even while the citizens of Ferguson have gone home.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:04
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It's really weird how this is all over the news here in Europe, as if we didn't have plenty of problems of our own. But every time something like this happens, the media go into "Let's point fingers at the US and their crazy cops" mode. Regarding the video: where is the store clerk and has he been questioned yet ??
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Aug 19, 2014 15:05
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Segmentation Fault posted:Isn't a common argument against searching somebody without a warrant, forcing drug tests, etc. that if one is honest then they have nothing to worry about? It's pretty loving funny that police officers who often use this line of reasoning against people who protest to unreasonable search and seizure suddenly have a problem with being recorded. It's not the only time they exhibit the "above the law" state of mind, though. Cops often run lights, text while driving, speed, and pretty much ignore any traffic law at will because they can't be pulled over for doing so, and it's no coincidence that the #1 cause of death for police officers is traffic collision. PyRosflam posted:At what point does the Military get called in? The National Guard was called in 30 hours ago or so. Hammerstein posted:Regarding the video: where is the store clerk and has he been questioned yet ?? There were public statements and official records released yesterday where he said there was no robbery (and no 911 calls were made from the store that day).
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Aug 19, 2014 15:07
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Hammerstein posted:It's really weird how this is all over the news here in Europe, as if we didn't have plenty of problems of our own. But every time something like this happens, the media go into "Let's point fingers at the US and their crazy cops" mode. Pointing at other countries and bashing them is a frequent pastime of every nations media. Last night the NYT ran a hilarious piece on how the PRC whitewashes history to smooth over relations with its minorities, all without a trace of irony.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:09
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Radish posted:I'm sure if you ask any member of that police force they feel the cop in question did nothing wrong. Justice is on their side and they shouldn't have to back down to an undemocratic mob! Small sample but a bunch of cops I know are flaming pissed about the behavior of Wilson and the Ferguson PD, saying it makes them all look bad, makes people more hostile and less trusting to cops, and makes their jobs harder and more dangerous. YMMV
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Aug 19, 2014 15:10
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Going full Assad would be AA tanks with Darren Wilson's portrait shooting up buildings. If Johnson is to be believed there are agitators coming from across the country now, but never mind the right wing media trend in previous weeks working people up about the 'War on Whites' And of course the media has been happy to play up the riots and the convenience store CCTV footage while not bringing police dash/body cams into the conversation.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:10
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30 Second Artbomb posted:Why the gently caress are they starting the press conference with a prayer? I gotta tell you, I didn't think the press conference would start with a new and previously unexamined civil rights violation. Are they just going all in?
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Aug 19, 2014 15:10
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Stultus Maximus posted:The Guard has already been called out, active duty is not going to be called out and dude they come from all over the country do you think that everyone in the military get stationed down the street from their mom's house? D&D teaches me a lot of things, but one of the things that never fails to surprise me is the depth of misunderstanding that most people have on how the military works.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:11
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When does the DOJ autopsy happen and is Ron Johnson supposed to make some sort of statement about the media today?
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Aug 19, 2014 15:11
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Fried Chicken posted:Small sample but a bunch of cops I know are flaming pissed about the behavior of Wilson and the Ferguson PD, saying it makes them all look bad, makes people more hostile and less trusting to cops, and makes their jobs harder and more dangerous. YMMV Yeah I meant meant that department specifically. It's pretty clear from the leaked video frames, "marijuana in his system" report, and response to the protesters that there are serious problems from the top to the bottom.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:11
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Hammerstein posted:It's really weird how this is all over the news here in Europe, as if we didn't have plenty of problems of our own. But every time something like this happens, the media go into "Let's point fingers at the US and their crazy cops" mode. During the Cold War the Soviet Union would hit the US hard on civil rights issues, such as when ambassadors from newly formed African countries would come to the US to establish diplomatic relations, only to be denied service at restaurants during stop-overs between New York and DC. I imagine the same sort of mindset is happening now, if with less enmity.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:12
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McDowell posted:Going full Assad would be AA tanks with Darren Wilson's portrait shooting up buildings. I'm no fan of cops, but Johnson is right about one thing - the people coming in to engage with cops are from outside ferguson. The media coming in to document are from outside ferguson. I was at the greater grace church on Sunday for a mike brown rally, thousands and thousands of people there for mike brown, when I noticed that almost all the media there to cover this are white. When I talk to protestors from ferguson, they're all there for mike brown. When I talk to protestors outside ferguson, they're there against police militarization. The protest narrative in ferguson has essentially been hijacked by outside media and protestors who are against police militarization, but militarization has nothing to do with mike brown's death. Getting killed by the police while unarmed is a black issue, police militarization is an issue for white folks which is what sparked such intense media coverage - it could happen to them.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:16
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bassguitarhero posted:I'm no fan of cops, but Johnson is right about one thing - the people coming in to engage with cops are from outside ferguson. The media coming in to document are from outside ferguson. I was at the greater grace church on Sunday for a mike brown rally, thousands and thousands of people there for mike brown, when I noticed that almost all the media there to cover this are white. When I talk to protestors from ferguson, they're all there for mike brown. When I talk to protestors outside ferguson, they're there against police militarization. I am dead certain that soul patch revolutionary in the back there is not from Ferguson or anywhere in north county 
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Aug 19, 2014 15:20
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Oh god, the black anchor's expression in that photo is priceless. bassguitarhero posted:
If you want to enact change you have to bring multiple groups to the table. Getting police militarization and police shooting of unarmed black men to be linked issues in the public mindset is a positive development: it builds a coalition for positive change on both issues. It's easy to say the word "hijack" but it's probably a lot more productive to think of it as a huge opportunity for coalition building. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 15:23
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PyRosflam posted:At what point does the Military get called in? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act They won't be.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:23
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bassguitarhero posted:I'm no fan of cops, but Johnson is right about one thing - the people coming in to engage with cops are from outside ferguson. The media coming in to document are from outside ferguson. I was at the greater grace church on Sunday for a mike brown rally, thousands and thousands of people there for mike brown, when I noticed that almost all the media there to cover this are white. When I talk to protestors from ferguson, they're all there for mike brown. When I talk to protestors outside ferguson, they're there against police militarization. Both of these issues are important and intersect though. But yeah - those actually from the community will tend to care more about the Michael Brown shooting because its a symptom of the larger problems they've had to deal with. To be fair though, the police militarization is of course connected to the Michael Brown shooting which itself is arguably the result of cops being trigger happy and treating people in a community like enemies in a war. This can be expanded to how the local police are handling the protests. For myself, were I there, I'd say I care strongly about both those issues and would be there for both.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:25
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Broken Loose posted:There were public statements and official records released yesterday where he said there was no robbery (and no 911 calls were made from the store that day). The statements I read from the store's attorney seem to neither confirm or deny a robbery, just that they(the clerks) never called the cops, a customer inside the store did. It'd make sense, when it's just a small item we usually don't call the cops at our store if someone is stealing because who the gently caress cares that much about an $8 steak. Brown may have committed petty theft, there's a reasonable chance of it, but who cares, it's something a good deal of the country is guilty of having done at one point. Hell when white people do it it becomes a classic Seinfeld episode "You two are stealing too?? Stealing what?" "Nothing really, batteries mostly. There just wear out so quickly" "Jerry, no one pays for everything"
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Aug 19, 2014 15:27
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bassguitarhero posted:The protest narrative in ferguson has essentially been hijacked by outside media and protestors who are against police militarization, but militarization has nothing to do with mike brown's death. Getting killed by the police while unarmed is a black issue, police militarization is an issue for white folks which is what sparked such intense media coverage - it could happen to them. Getting heavy equipment from the Pentagon has nothing to do with Mike Brown's death, but you don't think militarization leads to "shoot first, don't ask questions"? Or "Do everything you can to rationalize killing an innocent person by tarring them as a 'Bad Guy'"? Can I interest you in the IDF Spokesman's twitter and youtube accounts?
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Aug 19, 2014 15:29
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Anybody recognize this weapon? From so many pages ago, but can anyone identify the sight or attachment in the front of the weapon? Every other image of the M32 I've google has a sight that's directly above the magazine, nothing so far in front.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:31
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:
Right. I think that most people protesting the police militarization also recognize and are conscious of Michael Brown's shooting and the racism around it. The thing about racism in abuse of power is that racism is used as a means to 'test drive' oppression and mistreatment of people before it expands to other people not of the vulnerable ethnic group. We began to militarize our police forces decades ago largely to oppress minority groups who had little voice or say about it - and now much like cancerous tumors that went unchecked, the problem has festered and spread to affect everyone. This is why members of the dominant ethnic social class in a country actually have a vested personal stake in stopping a minority group from being mistreated & helping them fight for equality - because if a problem can get a 'foothold' in with a minority group, it WILL spread to your dominant group as well. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 15:34
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Well, good morning. Sounds like poo poo got even more real after I went to bed, SO: 1. Is there a time stamp for the Vice stream where Tim gets his press poo poo taken by the cops? 2. Is there any way to view the Fox reporter getting arrested? 3. The press conference--is that available in full anywhere? 4. What's the schedule of events for today? Federal autopsy or anything like that?
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Aug 19, 2014 15:37
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Here's the video of Michael Brown paying. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/ I know there's another copy, but this was the first place (and only news source) I found reporting it.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Oh god, the black anchor's expression in that photo is priceless. If the people of Ferguson want to enact change their change probably has a lot more to do with an adversarial local police force and a lot less with some "national dialogue" about the militarization of police. Ferguson is over 2/3 black. Shooting of unarmed black men is perpetually in the Ferguson public mindset. What Ferguson needs to do to enact change is organize politically and change the government, replacing the all-white city leadership with a council that reflects the makeup of the town and has police reform on its agenda. Yes, it's easy to use the word "hijack" because that is what's going on. Having Claire McCaskill and Rand Paul and CNN and whoever else take Congressional action about Pentagon supplying police forces might be your goal but it isn't all that relevant to the members of a town who are tired of being governed and policed by white folks who see the majority population as a threat.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:40
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gradenko_2000 posted:From so many pages ago, but can anyone identify the sight or attachment in the front of the weapon? Every other image of the M32 I've google has a sight that's directly above the magazine, nothing so far in front. Tacticlol flashlight, looks to me.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:40
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bassguitarhero posted:I'm no fan of cops, but Johnson is right about one thing - the people coming in to engage with cops are from outside ferguson. The media coming in to document are from outside ferguson. I was at the greater grace church on Sunday for a mike brown rally, thousands and thousands of people there for mike brown, when I noticed that almost all the media there to cover this are white. When I talk to protestors from ferguson, they're all there for mike brown. When I talk to protestors outside ferguson, they're there against police militarization. You are correct. However, the militarization issue came up as a result of the reaction to Michael Brown's death. Both issues are extremely relevant to american society right now.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:40
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Let's see what totally out of touch and dated stereotypes the talking heads on Fox are dredging up. http://mediamatters.org/video/2014/08/18/foxs-pinkerton-baselessly-speculates-michael-br/200461 quote:Fox's Pinkerton Baselessly Speculates Michael Brown Could Have Been "High On Some Drug, Angel Dust Or PCP" Hoo boy. 1971 called - they want their racist drug-use-stereotype back. Wasn't there some other guy (or people) claiming Michael Brown went 'reefer madness' on the cop that shot him. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 15:41
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Broken Loose posted:It's not the only time they exhibit the "above the law" state of mind, though. Cops often run lights, text while driving, speed, and pretty much ignore any traffic law at will because they can't be pulled over for doing so, and it's no coincidence that the #1 cause of death for police officers is traffic collision. Not long ago a cop in a city near where I live was going something like 80 down residential streets, t-boned a guy at a stopsign he ran through, and in the process killed the man because he was stuck in his car after it caught on fire. He didn't have his sirens or lights on and was 'responding' to an emergency that already had several other officers present and was in the process of wrapping up.  My younger brother got tailgated and witnessed a guy with FPO plates speeding, then when he flipped him off the guy screamed about how he was a cop and he could kill him if he wanted. Then when he called it in to 911 they basically waved him off the moment he mentioned the FPO plates, and it's convinced my brother to get a dashcam.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:41
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BottledBodhisvata posted:1. Is there a time stamp for the Vice stream where Tim gets his press poo poo taken by the cops? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmqHVKNZkhM&t=12605s
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Aug 19, 2014 15:41
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bassguitarhero posted:I'm no fan of cops, but Johnson is right about one thing - the people coming in to engage with cops are from outside ferguson. The media coming in to document are from outside ferguson. I was at the greater grace church on Sunday for a mike brown rally, thousands and thousands of people there for mike brown, when I noticed that almost all the media there to cover this are white. When I talk to protestors from ferguson, they're all there for mike brown. When I talk to protestors outside ferguson, they're there against police militarization. Police militarization is absolutely why Mike Brown died. It's directly responsible for creating the type of culture that doesn't hold police officers accountable for abuse and actually encourages it since they need to do something with all their shiny new toys to show results that keep that sweet federal money flowing.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Oh god, the black anchor's expression in that photo is priceless. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. You make progress when you focus on one issue at a time. Trying to tie mike brown to militarization will fail because Americans care about militarization, but not the death of unarmed black people. What you call "linked issues in the public mindset" will eventually become just "militarization" which will lead to forgetting about mike brown. The mike brown protestors have been focused on mike brown because the solution is charging and convicting Darren Wilson. The solution to police militarization is an entirely different story, far deeper, and requires far more work, which means that moving the narrative that direction goes away from justice for mike brown.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:43
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Warcabbit posted:Here's the video of Michael Brown paying. Site is down
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Aug 19, 2014 15:43
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nachos posted:Police militarization is absolutely why Mike Brown died. It's directly responsible for creating the type of culture that doesn't hold police officers accountable for abuse and actually encourages it since they need to do something with all their shiny new toys to show results that keep that sweet federal money flowing. No, this is completely wrong. Wilson killed brown because he is white and brown was black. No militarization required. Holding Wilson accountable for murder is the solution to racial issues, which is what kicked this entire thing off. Militarization is an issue that can affect white people which is why it's getting national attention. Look at the racial difference between the people who live in ferguson and the media there to cover it. The media concern is hijacking the original issue, which is justice for mike brown, which can be solved by charging and convicting Wilson.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:47
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gradenko_2000 posted:From so many pages ago, but can anyone identify the sight or attachment in the front of the weapon? Every other image of the M32 I've google has a sight that's directly above the magazine, nothing so far in front. The rear sight is an EOTech or something, and the front attachment looks like some random flashlight attachment 
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Aug 19, 2014 15:47
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bassguitarhero posted:No, this is completely wrong. Wilson killed brown because he is white and brown was black. No militarization required. Holding Wilson accountable for murder is the solution to racial issues, which is what kicked this entire thing off. Police militarization intersects with racism though, since the reason for it is largely due to drug crime paranoia, which itself is largely racist. (Terrorism paranoia as well, which too is largely racist.)
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Aug 19, 2014 15:49
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Cops been killing black people way before they got armored vehicles. Don't wanna downplay the importance of rolling that poo poo back, though.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:50
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