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BiggerBoat posted:What's so controversial and dangerous about pointing out that shooting an unarmed kid 6 times, twice in the face is something we maybe shouldn't aspire to? I'd be happy to lose the vote of anyone who disagrees with that. The controversial part is why the officer did it.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:43
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quote:Well okay, but you're not gonna like how many votes that actually loses. I still have real trouble understanding how we elected Obama in the first place. Oracle fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 17:44
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DoubleDonut posted:I don't think anyone's refuting that. We're refuting the idea that talking about race at all would be some catastrophe that would immediately give complete control of the House, 60 seats of the Senate, and the Presidency to the GOP. We're also saying that even if it is politically bad for the Democratic party to talk about race, it is still necessary if any progress is to be made ever. I think Democratic candidates could conceivably get more votes if they demonstrated the courage of their convictions and spoke up once in a while. Or at least enough votes from enough traditionally apathetic types to offset the soft racists they're worried about losing. Most Democratic voters I know wish the people they vote for would speak MORE, not less. And most apathetic voters I know are that way because no one speaks up. Most of my friends who voted for Obama are disappointed with him for being a huge pussy all of the time. Obama won (twice) by speaking strongly to exactly these types of issues. He galvanized the base. The speech he gave on race after the Wright nonsense played out is a good example. Like others have said, he beat a war hero and the whitest whitey who ever whited. Rather convincingly I might add. People are ready for it and want to hear it. What the gently caress does Obama have to be afraid of or even to lose at this point by appearing controversial? Jesus. At this stage of the game if he said he folded his toilet paper to wipe his rear end instead of crumpling, it'd be in the 24 hour news cycle with "Is Obama an Elitist?" headlines. edit: double post BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 17:44
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mdemone posted:Well okay, but you're not gonna like how many votes that actually loses. I still have real trouble understanding how we elected Obama in the first place. Bush was really, really, really bad. Bad enough that the backlash against him made it possible.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:46
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BiggerBoat posted:I think Democratic candidates could conceivably get more votes if they demonstrated the courage of their convictions and spoke up once in a while. Or at least enough votes from enough traditionally apathetic types to offset the soft racists they're worried about losing. Most Democratic voters I know wish the people they vote for would speak MORE, not less. And most apathetic voters I know are that way because no one speaks up. Most of my friends who voted for Obama are disappointed with him for being a huge pussy all of the time. Going by electorate statistics the only racial group that aren't significantly close to their population percentages are Hispanics (who have other issues). Black people actually represent about as much of the electorate as their percentage of the US population.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:47
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BiggerBoat posted:People are ready for it and want to hear it. What the gently caress does Obama have to be afraid of or even to lose at this point by appearing controversial? Are cowards ever really afraid of something in particular? I always thought it was a kind of generalized "please don't hurt me" thing.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:48
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Here's John McCain doing the robot dance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYY0rzrJ7Po
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Aug 19, 2014 17:48
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:only once in the face the other headshot was to his crown Sic semper
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Aug 19, 2014 17:52
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Joementum posted:Here's John McCain doing the robot dance. I've seen some whiteboy.avi, but that was the whiteboy.avi That dude cannot dance at aaaallll
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Aug 19, 2014 17:53
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Joementum posted:Here's John McCain doing the robot dance. He was not trying to do the robot dance 
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Aug 19, 2014 17:54
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Oracle posted:Minorities, women and younger voters. If only white men could vote Romney would have won. You could just put it down as whites. If 2012 would have had the demography of 1984, Obama loses a landslide. It's a large part of why the right has gone so nuts recently-- at least at the top end, they can see the birds coming home to roost from their decades of riding high on the racist Southern Strategy. With less and less white people, they need to somehow start getting substantial pieces of the rest of the pie, but can't due to how well they conditioned their base.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:54
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The Puppy Bowl posted:his tremendous qualifications. List these tremendous qualifications. computer parts posted:It takes the majority of the country to elect the President. The president is not elected by majority vote. Please read up on how the electoral college works. Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Guys, Rick Perry is going to be okay because the future Republican President is praying for him My dream is for Perry and Christie to share a cell with Deal and whatever that Virginia governor's name is. And then for the cell to catch fire.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:56
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Interesting pitch from Sean Eldridge, running in New York's 19th Congressional District: "I'm so filthy rich that the special interests can't buy me." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt5wo5yowuY Also, perhaps the first political ad in the US from a male candidate where the candidate says "my husband".
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Aug 19, 2014 17:57
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Evil Fluffy posted:
Obama, the President of the United States, won the popular vote both times he was elected.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:58
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Here have an oped that will piss you off I'm a cop. If you don't want to get hurt don't challenge me
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Aug 19, 2014 17:58
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rkajdi posted:You could just put it down as whites. If 2012 would have had the demography of 1984, Obama loses a landslide. It's a large part of why the right has gone so nuts recently-- at least at the top end, they can see the birds coming home to roost from their decades of riding high on the racist Southern Strategy. With less and less white people, they need to somehow start getting substantial pieces of the rest of the pie, but can't due to how well they conditioned their base. They've tried to get Asians and have successfully coded them as "the good minority" to most of their base, but they've been completely unsuccessful.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:59
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Actually what makes me think Obama actually does want to care about this is that he was rather snide during the questions yesterday. Like he literally said "Back when I was a state senator and none of your could pronounce my name, I passed a lot of police reform bills".
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Aug 19, 2014 18:00
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Evil Fluffy posted:List these tremendous qualifications.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:01
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Joementum posted:Interesting pitch from Sean Eldridge, running in New York's 19th Congressional District: "I'm so filthy rich that the special interests can't buy me."
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Aug 19, 2014 18:02
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Fried Chicken posted:Here have an oped that will piss you off Hey look LAPD cops are loving scum. ACAB
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Aug 19, 2014 18:02
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computer parts posted:The controversial part is why the officer did it. Elaborate. Raskolnikov38 posted:Are cowards ever really afraid of something in particular? I always thought it was a kind of generalized "please don't hurt me" thing. Joementum already pointed out (and so did I) that Obama gave big speech on race 6 years ago. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 18:02
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JT Jag posted:He's a venture capitalist and his husband was a founder of Facebook. So I guess his special interests would be the things that made him rich, and also the dreaded LGBT lobby. Right. In the ad he says, "My husband, Chris, was one of the founders of Facebook, so I have the independence to reject special interest contributions." Plenty of candidates are wealthy, but I think it's novel for one to actually say (in a campaign ad!) that they're so wealthy that they can't be bought.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:04
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BiggerBoat posted:Elaborate. Specifically the controversy is "The officer shot this kid because he's a virulent racist and racism is still a problem in America" instead of "He shot this kid because he was an urban thug/a shoplifter/militarization of the police/etc." You even see it here - the Michael Brown thread was obsessed with militarization of the police instead of "guy shooting a black guy because he was black".
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Aug 19, 2014 18:05
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computer parts posted:Specifically the controversy is "The officer shot this kid because he's a virulent racist and racism is still a problem in America" instead of "He shot this kid because he was an urban thug/a shoplifter/militarization of the police/etc." The militarization of the police has become an issue because of the response since the shooting. Darren Wilson wasn't rolling around in an MRAP with a 40mm grenade launcher and an M60 when he killed Michael Brown. Also because white people are more comfortable talking about police militarization than they are talking about the fact that last year the Ferguson PD stopped ten times as many blacks as whites in a town that's 66% black. Or that, on average, American police forces killed a black man every 28 hours in 2013. Basically white people loving hate talking about race because it threatens to weaken their hegemony on American politics and society.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:07
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computer parts posted:Specifically the controversy is "The officer shot this kid because he's a virulent racist and racism is still a problem in America" instead of "He shot this kid because he was an urban thug/a shoplifter/militarization of the police/etc." My point is that both of things are controversial. Also Obama doesn't have much to lose by speaking to it. He might have a bit to gain actually. You seem(ed) to be arguing the latter.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:08
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Fried Chicken posted:Here have an oped that will piss you off The boot-licky "I'm a white guy and I did what I was told even though the policeman was obviously on a power trip so I didn't get beat up; I don't see what the problem is" comments kinda piss me off more than the article itself. Joementum posted:Right. In the ad he says, "My husband, Chris, was one of the founders of Facebook, so I have the independence to reject special interest contributions." Plenty of candidates are wealthy, but I think it's novel for one to actually say (in a campaign ad!) that they're so wealthy that they can't be bought. Frankly as a rich man I would assume the opposite and that his lust for wealth is insatiable and thus is more open to bribes and special interests than a regular person.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:09
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BiggerBoat posted:My point is that both of things are controversial. Also Obama doesn't have much to lose by speaking to it. He might have a bit to gain actually. You seem(ed) to be arguing the latter. One of them is controversial because it acknowledges what white people did, and one of them is controversial because it makes white people feel how black people feel around the police.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:10
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BiggerBoat posted:Joementum already pointed out (and so did I) that Obama gave big speech on race 6 years ago. The one caution I would have with the comparison between the 2008 race speech and any similar effort by Obama today is that he made that speech in the 2008 campaign to appear less radical on racial issues. It was a tactic by the campaign to diffuse the release of the Jeremiah Wright "God drat America" tape. Were Obama to speak on the issue today, he would be speaking out against the status quo. There's also the problem that anyone who thinks Obama should speak on this issue is going to inevitably be disappointed in Obama's speech on this issue.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:13
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Joementum posted:Interesting pitch from Sean Eldridge, running in New York's 19th Congressional District: "I'm so filthy rich that the special interests can't buy me." Hughes is one of the biggest walking cases of conflicts of interest in journalism, and my schadenfreude overfloweth.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:14
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computer parts posted:One of them is controversial because it acknowledges what white people did, and one of them is controversial because it makes white people feel how black people feel around the police. OK then. I think it's controversial because shooting a robbery suspect who's surrendering six times seems a tad excessive. Even leaving race out of it, which I realize is impossible. Thanks for clarifying though.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:14
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BiggerBoat posted:My point is that both of things are controversial. Also Obama doesn't have much to lose by speaking to it. He might have a bit to gain actually. You seem(ed) to be arguing the latter. Obama could probably gain but he clearly believes that Democrats generally may lose.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:14
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amanasleep posted:Obama could probably gain but he clearly believes that Democrats generally may lose. I'm starting to develop a genuine distaste for pragmatism.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:18
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greatn posted:They've tried to get Asians and have successfully coded them as "the good minority" to most of their base, but they've been completely unsuccessful. Arabs/Middle Eastern people used to be one of the good ones... Until they all became terrorists on the eve of September 11th. (the Republicans did it to themselves, apparently being alienating dickheads isn't a great way to expand your base)
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Aug 19, 2014 18:18
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Joementum posted:Were Obama to speak on the issue today, he would be speaking out against the status quo. That's because he would deliver a milquetoast speech that's setup from the get go not to offend anyone. If you inject the slightest bit of truth about racial inequality in america, you're going to offend someone. And that's fine. quote:I'm starting to develop a genuine distaste for pragmatism. This is an understatement.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:23
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Magres posted:Also because white people are more comfortable talking about police militarization than they are talking about the fact that last year the Ferguson PD stopped ten times as many blacks as whites in a town that's 66% black. I swear at some point I saw an infographic that was basically the same as the one about Ferguson's stop rates by race and contraband carried by race but nationwide instead. Anyone have that handy by any chance?
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Aug 19, 2014 18:24
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm starting to develop a genuine distaste for pragmatism. Seven years ahead of you, friend.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:25
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Nelson Mandingo posted:That's because he would deliver a milquetoast speech that's setup from the get go not to offend anyone. If you inject the slightest bit of truth about racial inequality in america, you're going to offend someone. And that's fine. Seriously this, anything other than "both sides are wrong" would have been welcomed. Probably not over-joyously but anything is better than pansy-Obama mode.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:27
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm starting to develop a genuine distaste for pragmatism. Bring back LF
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Aug 19, 2014 18:27
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Nelson Mandingo posted:That's because he would deliver a milquetoast speech that's setup from the get go not to offend anyone. Right. He's not going to stop being Barack Obama.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:27
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Phone posted:Arabs/Middle Eastern people used to be one of the good ones... Until they all became terrorists on the eve of September 11th. It's funny to hear my Iranian-American girlfriend's parents talk about that, actually. They were hardcore Republicans up until 9/11, at which point the GOP promptly deemed them potential terrorists despite otherwise sharing Republican values. They jumped ship to the Democrats for the simple and sole reason that the Democrats don't think they're potential terrorists for emigrating from Iran to the US.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:29
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