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Holy poo poo so many new posts. What's happened since 2am last night?
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Aug 19, 2014 17:41
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GlyphGryph posted:Congrats guys we're doing exactly what the fuckers who released the video want us to do, arguing about the stupid video and Brown himself rather than the goddamn cop. Even I'm doing it. gently caress those fuckers. There is nothing new to say about him, he should be arrested and indicted with murder charges for the death of an unarmed man. Until this happens, the only discussion we really can have is about the current character assassination attempts on Brown, the militarized response of the police, and the ongoing protests.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:41
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President Ark posted:Have there been any major updates since last night, or have the last thousand posts in this thread just been typical D&D mind-numbingly stupid arguments over pedantry? No major updates that I've seen while browsing through the thread. It's mostly TVIVing the live streams from last night where things turned out as you would expect plus some arguing about what we know or don't know regarding the alleged robbery.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:41
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We are all being very, very boring.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:41
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MariusLecter posted:Mike Brown was only seconds away from putting the cop in an MMA style ground and pound! He probably would have been arrested if he'd done so. If he were white.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:43
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Plus some new Avs for people arguing against the guys 'just asking questions'
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Aug 19, 2014 17:44
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Captain Magic posted:I think this is a couple of pages late, but: there is no divide between "I want the police to be held accountable for a homicide" and "I want the police to not have military-grade weapons" because both of these speak to a politically-stunted desire to change public policy that has no positive, reliable outlet to be heard in this country by anyone with less than a billion dollars to spend on a political campaign. You can't split the issue without hurting one aspect of it; you can't hurt one aspect with hurting all of it. Yes, there is, and this is why the people of Ferguson are so upset because a bunch of non-black people are coming in and hijacking the narrative to make it about them. There is absolutely a huge difference between "I want the police to be held accountable for a homicide" and "I don't want the police to not have military-grade weapons" because one happens to black people and the other happens to white people. There has not been a spate of violent murder & abuse of unarmed white people by police this summer. There has been of black people. This is not related to police militarization, this has been going on for years and years. The militarization is new. It's scary. It's bad. But what it's being used to do is deprive people of civil liberties, not kill them and leave them dead in the street. That's not a result of militarization. That's the result of how police treat black people and how the rest of the country allows it. The issue of police militarization is an issue of civil liberties. The issue of police killing unarmed black people is literal homicide. A Fancy 400 lbs posted:In what world do people live in where no one says "took" in the context of items they bought and paid for? Unless you're a lawyer for the case then it's pointless to say that "this word means that word in this context." If he'd meant stole, he would have said stolen. He didn't use that word, so all you're doing is putting words in his mouth.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:44
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Jarmak posted:What are these Schrodinger's loving swishers? He either took them or he didn't, we have a process to determine whether we can prove whether a person committed sufficiently that we can justify punishing them. This system does not actually change the reality of whether a crime took place or not, nor does it act as some sort of mass mind control that prevents individuals from examining facts and deriving their own opinions. You're kind of mad about something but I'm having the darndest time figuring out what. Are you saying that we should or shouldn't assume he is innocent until proven guilty, and that the evidence provided--by the police, who are persons of interest with a clear CONFLICT of interest in this case--is not substantial either way. Since we have people looking at the video and coming away with differing conclusions, we require further evidence to prove guilt or innocence. That is what you're saying, right?
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Aug 19, 2014 17:44
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Spacman posted:Plus some new Avs for people arguing against the guys 'just asking questions' You should take a look at some of the other threads by other users at the something awful dot com forums
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Aug 19, 2014 17:47
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Aug 19, 2014 17:47
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"I won't hurt you if you just do what I say STOP RESISTING"
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Aug 19, 2014 17:51
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BottledBodhisvata posted:"I won't hurt you if you just do what I say STOP RESISTING" "Why you oppressing yourself?! Why are you oppressing yourself?!"
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Aug 19, 2014 17:52
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bassguitarhero posted:Unless you're a lawyer for the case then it's pointless to say that "this word means that word in this context." If he'd meant stole, he would have said stolen. He didn't use that word, so all you're doing is putting words in his mouth. That's what I'm saying. I regularly say stuff like "I took my poo poo and left" about items I paid for, saying took is obviously a synonym for stole is dumb.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:52
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bassguitarhero posted:You don't get it because the issue with militarization isn't shooting white people dead in the street for jaywalking. No, just for running out of buildings after having been stabbed. That's because white people weren't as easily painted as "the enemy". I get that it's racist, I'm not saying that it's not, but if you don't think it's a result of Confederate Veterans waging a war against people they blamed for their loss of the civil war, you're seriously mistaken.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:52
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Andrea Mitchell just talked to the reporter that was arrested yesterday and that's pretty much what he was charged with! code:
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Aug 19, 2014 17:53
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It doesn't matter if he "took" a baby's head off at the convenience store: the officer knew nothing about the incident when stopping Brown. Further, the police department's own narrative doesn't make logical sense. We are supposed to believe that after asking them to get off of the street:
Yeah. Seems perfectly plausible to me.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:54
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bassguitarhero posted:Yes, there is, and this is why the people of Ferguson are so upset because a bunch of non-black people are coming in and hijacking the narrative to make it about them. There is absolutely a huge difference between "I want the police to be held accountable for a homicide" and "I don't want the police to not have military-grade weapons" because one happens to black people and the other happens to white people. There has not been a spate of violent murder & abuse of unarmed white people by police this summer. There has been of black people. This is not related to police militarization, this has been going on for years and years. The militarization is new. It's scary. It's bad. But what it's being used to do is deprive people of civil liberties, not kill them and leave them dead in the street. That's not a result of militarization. That's the result of how police treat black people and how the rest of the country allows it. The issue of police militarization is an issue of civil liberties. The issue of police killing unarmed black people is literal homicide. Yes, yes, and yes. But I would posit that militarization is a newly-diagnosed symptom of the disease, and cops killing black people is a different, earlier-appearing symptom of the same disease, which is that the state has the right to do what it wants to whichever people it deems dangerous. We brought you here against your will, raped and destroyed your culture, then painted a bullseye on you and shot you dead for nothing more than target practice, and we're just now realizing that nobody is going to stop us from doing it to whoever we want. (Yes, I'm including myself as complicit in the rise of the white fascist state.) God drat America, indeed.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:56
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The best way to react to the CCTV video is to ask why there isn't a video of Wilson's encounter with Brown.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:56
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bassguitarhero posted:Yes, there is, and this is why the people of Ferguson are so upset because a bunch of non-black people are coming in and hijacking the narrative to make it about them. There is absolutely a huge difference between "I want the police to be held accountable for a homicide" and "I don't want the police to not have military-grade weapons" because one happens to black people and the other happens to white people. There has not been a spate of violent murder & abuse of unarmed white people by police this summer. There has been of black people. This is not related to police militarization, this has been going on for years and years. The militarization is new. It's scary. It's bad. But what it's being used to do is deprive people of civil liberties, not kill them and leave them dead in the street. That's not a result of militarization. That's the result of how police treat black people and how the rest of the country allows it. The issue of police militarization is an issue of civil liberties. The issue of police killing unarmed black people is literal homicide. They're the same issue because they have the same solution which is being stunted samely by the same people. Militarization of police is nothing new. It's been happening for the entire thirty-plus years of the war on drugs. It got ramped up with the war on terror. People don't pay attention because both of these things affect non-whites most of the time, as you said. But you can't solve racism with policy. You can use policy to solve bad training practices, us vs. them mentalities, and the stripping down of the fourth amendment. It's the same issue because we can't enact any new policies because the politicians haven't left much room for people to operate for peaceful change in this country. Protesters don't want people in the system to "fix" things; they want a new system entirely populated by entirely new people. Now--which "side" is that statement referring to? (It is both. The issue is the same.)
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Aug 19, 2014 17:57
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MariusLecter posted:Andrea Mitchell just talked to the reporter that was arrested yesterday and that's pretty much what he was charged with! To clarify, guy was across the street from the press pen, officer told him to move there, he asked if the area was open to the public and the officer said it was so he said he'd keep rolling tape. ARREST THIS MAN!
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Aug 19, 2014 17:58
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I've been seeing people on social media talking about how this kind of incident HAPPENS TO WHITE PEOPLE TOO!!!, in particular wrt a 20 year old white kid named Dillon Taylor being gunned down last week. So, uh, how does one respond? Cursory reading suggests that Dillon Taylor had a felony arrest warrant out on him and a history of criminal activity, so that's something.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:59
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Maybe the protesters need to try and set this up as a 2nd amendment rally. No one seems to like to step on that one.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:00
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https://twitter.com/AntonioFrench/status/501748522996482048 One of those white "revolutionary communist" guys from Chicago in one of the initial pictures of "molotov cockctails", I think it's originally from Wednesday or Thursday.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:00
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my bony fealty posted:I've been seeing people on social media talking about how this kind of incident HAPPENS TO WHITE PEOPLE TOO!!!, in particular wrt a 20 year old white kid named Dillon Taylor being gunned down last week. So, uh, how does one respond? Cursory reading suggests that Dillon Taylor had a felony arrest warrant out on him and a history of criminal activity, so that's something. Well you see, Michael brown had just committed a strong armed robbery, was probably hopped up on PCP, and was tossing the officer around like a rag doll. Probably lifted his car up like in that Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story movie too.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:01
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McDowell posted:The best way to react to the CCTV video is to ask why there isn't a video of Wilson's encounter with Brown. IIRC, didn't the cops confiscate CCTV footage of the shooting and they haven't released it yet because ~reasons~ I could have sworn I read that last week before everything went (further) to poo poo but so much has happened I might be misremembering things.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:01
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my bony fealty posted:I've been seeing people on social media talking about how this kind of incident HAPPENS TO WHITE PEOPLE TOO!!!, in particular wrt a 20 year old white kid named Dillon Taylor being gunned down last week. So, uh, how does one respond? Cursory reading suggests that Dillon Taylor had a felony arrest warrant out on him and a history of criminal activity, so that's something. Maybe you should ask them how they feel about the fact that police are brutalizing everyone, across race and class boundaries.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:02
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It's seems fairly clear to me that the whole "charging" at the office was probably Brown just jerking and turning around too quickly, literally sparking a south park style "he's comin right for us!" moment.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:04
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A Winner is Jew posted:IIRC, didn't the cops confiscate CCTV footage of the shooting and they haven't released it yet because ~reasons~ If there was any, it has most certainly been confiscated. I've not heard any reports of them taking witness' phones or anything though.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:04
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A Winner is Jew posted:IIRC, didn't the cops confiscate CCTV footage of the shooting and they haven't released it yet because ~reasons~ If it was at all incriminating to the cop it's ashes in a dumpster.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:05
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fknlo posted:Maybe the protesters need to try and set this up as a 2nd amendment rally. No one seems to like to step on that one. man nothing would panic the government/white people more than a bajillion black people doing a Second Ammendment rally
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Aug 19, 2014 18:05
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MariusLecter posted:If it was at all incriminating to the cop it's ashes in a dumpster. "The video was inconclusive and has since been misplaced."
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Aug 19, 2014 18:06
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mdemone posted:Maybe you should ask them how they feel about the fact that police are brutalizing everyone, across race and class boundaries. That's exactly the point taken, that it's not a 'racial issue' and it's wrong to single out incidents involving innocent blacks slaughtered by the new Gestapo because BULLETS DON'T SEE RACE or whatever. Which runs counter to the narrative that I see in articles like this: http://www.salon.com/2014/08/19/americas_new_racial_low_point_more_crying_black_mothers_and_tear_gas_on_our_dreams/ or in this thread.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:09
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fknlo posted:Maybe the protesters need to try and set this up as a 2nd amendment rally. No one seems to like to step on that one. So many people would die
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Aug 19, 2014 18:11
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In the private business world, if a company employee screwed up so horribly that they made national news for the harm they caused, their employer would fire them, cut them off from support, and offer full cooperation to authorities in legal action against them. This is what happened to my predecessor at my current job. You figure that if this was the department's response to the cop who shot Brown, none of this escalation would have happened.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:13
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IMJack posted:In the private business world, if a company employee screwed up so horribly that they made national news for the harm they caused, their employer would fire them, cut them off from support, and offer full cooperation to authorities in legal action against them. This is what happened to my predecessor at my current job. You figure that if this was the department's response to the cop who shot Brown, none of this escalation would have happened. Thanks detective obvious
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Aug 19, 2014 18:14
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Privatize the police!!!
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Aug 19, 2014 18:14
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my bony fealty posted:That's exactly the point taken, that it's not a 'racial issue' and it's wrong to single out incidents involving innocent blacks slaughtered by the new Gestapo because BULLETS DON'T SEE RACE or whatever. Which runs counter to the narrative that I see in articles like this: It's true, bullets don't see race. Bullets don't see anything. Nihilism 2016.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:15
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Advocating conspiracy theories makes you look like loving truthers.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:15
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who the gently caress hasn't robbed a convenience store at some point it is not a big deal
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Aug 19, 2014 18:15
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my bony fealty posted:That's exactly the point taken, that it's not a 'racial issue' and it's wrong to single out incidents involving innocent blacks slaughtered by the new Gestapo because BULLETS DON'T SEE RACE or whatever. Which runs counter to the narrative that I see in articles like this: It shouldn't be so hard to acknowledge that while, yes, this is a policing issue that can affect anyone, it disproportionately affects the black population. Don't get me wrong, I understand that this is very hard for a large number of people - it just shouldn't be.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:15
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