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thespaceinvader posted:Is the MM really THAT regressive? Seriously, now to go along with the spell casters not having their abilities listed we also have a bunch of templates, which may or may not be applied both to PCs and NPC, ability score damage which requires at-table recalculation and more 'natural' language than you can shake a 10-foot pole at. The Template looks super easy to run. The Vampire Template pretty much says that the PC becomes DM Controled. The Shadow appears to be the only monster that does Strength Damage. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 18:23
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treeboy posted:So either 1) Fighters suck or 2) Encounter sucks. Right. This is 5e. If martial classes are contributing to encounters, you're playing the game wrong. There exists a clear consensus that casters trivialize every aspect of the game, so I'm not sure what you don't understand.
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Aug 19, 2014 19:24
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Jack the Lad posted:I'm afraid so, yeah. There's just no way to make those classes competitive with full casters in 5e except with some very extensive houseruling. Well this is a bummer. How amenable is 5E to reskinning? Can I just tell guy-who-liked-4E-fighters that if he wants to play a fighter again this game he should make a war cleric or something and we'll reskin all his divine powers to being martial badassery and just roll with it? I mean, I'm sure there'll be some oddities ("Divine Intervention" doesn't re-flavor easy, and we'll probably need to have a conversation about whether stuff like Counterspell works against his abilities...) but is there anything broadly speaking that prevents it?
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Aug 19, 2014 19:33
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Template looks super easy to run. The Vampire Template pretty much says that the PC becomes DM Controled. The Shadow appears to be the only monster that does Strength Damage. The half-dragon template looks pretty hideous to run, to me. It doesn't have all the information in a single place, and requires cross-referencing with the Dragon pages, and different one for different levels or whatever - it's just not straightforward... If there's one book where I'd want limited flavour and limited language, and every individual monster to have all of its rules in a single locaation, it's the monster manual. Seriously...
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Aug 19, 2014 19:36
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branar posted:Well this is a bummer. How amenable is 5E to reskinning? Can I just tell guy-who-liked-4E-fighters that if he wants to play a fighter again this game he should make a war cleric or something and we'll reskin all his divine powers to being martial badassery and just roll with it? I don't see why you couldn't do that, and I would probably suggest it.
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Aug 19, 2014 20:07
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Okay, so I think I worked out how to kill that loving dragon: Find a huge rock or boulder - stone weighs about one ton per cubic metre, so one of around 10x5x2m will give you 100 tons to play with - somewhere in the vicinity of the dragon's lair. Scry the lair until the dragon falls asleep. True Polymorph the rock into a friendly fly. You control its actions (I'm working from the PHB alpha, so I hope the wording hasn't changed in the final version), so send it into the lair and have it fly above the dragon. End the spell (or lose concentration before the hour ends, so it's not permanent). Drop 100 tons of solid rock on the dragon's head. Then send in
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Aug 19, 2014 20:47
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Payndz posted:Okay, so I think I worked out how to kill that loving dragon: Does the rock get the XP?
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Aug 19, 2014 20:53
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Payndz posted:Okay, so I think I worked out how to kill that loving dragon: It won't work if the dragon can smell what the rock is cooking.
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Aug 19, 2014 20:55
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Ruckby posted:This is 5e. If martial classes are contributing to encounters, you're playing the game wrong. There exists a clear consensus that casters trivialize every aspect of the game, so I'm not sure what you don't understand. Since the fighters were able to get in the wizard's way and stop him from killing everything with Burning Hands, forcing him to decide the battle with Sleep instead, I am now convinced that balance is a non-issue and 5e is perfect. Or it would be, if not for the awful boss lair mechanics that ruin my immersion and reveal 5e to be nothing but WoW on the tabletop.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:00
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homullus posted:It won't work if the dragon can smell what the rock is cooking. It's the most electrifying move in tabletop entertainment!
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Aug 19, 2014 21:01
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Sorry.True Polymorph posted:Object into Creature.You can turn an object into
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Aug 19, 2014 21:01
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I don't see a problem. The fly is not larger than the rock.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:03
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slydingdoor posted:Sorry. Sorry for what? Flies aren't larger than 100-ton boulders, nor are they CR 10+.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:05
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He was just apologizing to the dragon in advance.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:05
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Haha my bad. "No Xer than Y" language always fucks me up.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:07
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slydingdoor posted:Haha my bad. "No Xer than Y" language always fucks me up. Negatively formulated statements are infamously easy to misinterpret.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:13
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gently caress you, mearls, spell-like abilities are everywhere.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:15
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Ruckby posted:This is 5e. If martial classes are contributing to encounters, you're playing the game wrong. There exists a clear consensus that casters trivialize every aspect of the game, so I'm not sure what you don't understand.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:29
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For those who've read/had a peek at the monster manual: are there rules for playing goblin characters in it? If there are, then I'll try 5e; regardless of it being an absolute trashy mess 
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Aug 19, 2014 21:58
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D&D NEXT: Welcome to the Bone Zone posted:Caster Edition never died See, this is why my first move when making the Noskelhome was to declare no full casters are playable - all of them are NPCs for some reason or another. I assume the gap between martial and hybrid is still pretty big, but at the same time it feels more manageable than that between casters and anyone else. Thanks for all the advice, guys - while I don't have any art, I will probably have the city of useless mirrors finished within a couple of days - I'm kinda surprised how it turned out, considering my original vision for it, but I think it works.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:08
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ObMeiste posted:For those who've read/had a peek at the monster manual: are there rules for playing goblin characters in it? and if so do they get +2 to cha like in 4e because i still don't understand that. at all.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:43
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Stormgale posted:The problem is D&D is a really and has always really been awful at this sort of mythic poo poo (The wizard that alters reality, the fighter that can sever a mountain or scare the wind away), for what D&D is good at bringing the wizard down into sane territory makes sense, as it is and will always be a dungeon crawling murder treasure simulator? I'm getting tired of this recent gambit where people say 'meh dnd is terrible at everything anyway'. Compared to what? Scion?
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Aug 19, 2014 23:01
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I ran my 3rd game last night - finished the manor house in the Starter set. Only 3 players- Barbarian (was fighter, he changed with the PHB), Fighter/Rogue and Cleric (from the stater set). Everyone did something, we had fun, the enemy wizard tried to cast hold person which the Barbarian saved against, and then he got splatted. Make one class NPC only. They make good villains. Comstar fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 23:30
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Ruckby posted:This is 5e. If martial classes are contributing to encounters, you're playing the game wrong. There exists a clear consensus that casters trivialize every aspect of the game, so I'm not sure what you don't understand. Mostly, I think, what I don't understand is why there is such an absolute consensus to this effect here, while other threads I've seen have come to either the opposite conclusion or some kind of mixed conclusion like "casters can contribute more for a couple of fights, but not for more than two or three in a day".
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Aug 20, 2014 00:05
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None of my friendly local gaming/comic book stores carry this, or indeed any roleplaying game (gaming coming from their carrying minis and MTG). Does WotC plan to release a PDF/kindle ed, or out of deference to both the stores that will actually stock it pass?
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Aug 20, 2014 00:11
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seebs posted:Mostly, I think, what I don't understand is why there is such an absolute consensus to this effect here, while other threads I've seen have come to either the opposite conclusion or some kind of mixed conclusion like "casters can contribute more for a couple of fights, but not for more than two or three in a day". Goddamn people are slow in this thread. dumpster17 posted:None of my friendly local gaming/comic book stores carry this, or indeed any roleplaying game (gaming coming from their carrying minis and MTG). If you still have a big-box bookstore near you, they might sell 5th edition there like they did 4th. Otherwise it's Amazon time or waiting for them to sell pdfs.
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Aug 20, 2014 00:13
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A Catastrophe posted:4e does this just fine. I love 4e but 4e is pretty loving awful at playing mythic heroes that can talk to the earth or sever a mountain in one blow. It has some stuff like this but only after 20 levels of play, which are a slog to get through or really awkward to skip. So yes D&D is and always was really loving awful and following the myths and legends of heroes, I'd pretty much stand by that
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Aug 20, 2014 00:17
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My amazon pre-order arrived. But those monster manual posts have killed all enthusiasm.
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Aug 20, 2014 00:21
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Yeah, I was also enthusiastic about 5th edition, to the point that I paid for it before it had even come out. Who could have predicted that the monster manual would've been plagued by a bunch of trivially solvable legacy problems? No one here, certainly.
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Aug 20, 2014 00:24
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So to be clear, this isn't a loaded question for edition war time, but I just got the 5e player's manual, and this looks a LOT like 3.5. Are there any significant differences between the two systems? Web searches found me a lot of 3.5 v 4e which is a huge difference but 5e so far seems almost identical.
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Aug 20, 2014 00:44
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seebs posted:Mostly, I think, what I don't understand is why there is such an absolute consensus to this effect here, while other threads I've seen have come to either the opposite conclusion or some kind of mixed conclusion like "casters can contribute more for a couple of fights, but not for more than two or three in a day". Because the actual rules text says that skeleton army, true polymorph to dragon, etc are things you can actually do. It's really easy to say "Well what I would do..." and "But in my game it's fine because...", and if enough people are saying those things then everything looks fine. It's just that here, lots of people care about what the actual rules say, not what you'd totally do if you were running a game.
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Aug 20, 2014 00:48
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seebs posted:Mostly, I think, what I don't understand is why there is such an absolute consensus to this effect here, while other threads I've seen have come to either the opposite conclusion or some kind of mixed conclusion like "casters can contribute more for a couple of fights, but not for more than two or three in a day". I haven't really tested out 5e much, but I can see where everyone is coming from. Dominating only 2-3 encounters a day isn't really a restriction at all. In all versions of D&D I've played, 2-3 encounters per day was pretty typical for long stretches of the game, no matter what sort of advice the DMG says on encounters/day. Unless your under a time constraint, there's generally no reason not to rest up so everyone is at full strength. If you're DM'ing, constantly forcing time constraints is tedious, and just ends up feeling like you're railroading the players. Also, inevitably, there will be an item/spell that allows for a long rest in a reduced time frame. Edit: Oh, and there's also the tendency when a party is approaching a boss to hold back on their big guns, then unload on the final boss. It makes things pretty anticlimactic when the limited number of encounters the wizard can trivialize are the important ones. gninjagnome fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 00:54
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I find that resting/continuing after every encounter is the biggest source of IRL tension my group still has. Half of us think it is lame and/or gamist, the other half are spellcasters.
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Aug 20, 2014 01:03
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Ferrinus posted:Yeah, I was also enthusiastic about 5th edition, to the point that I paid for it before it had even come out. Who could have predicted that the monster manual would've been plagued by a bunch of trivially solvable legacy problems? No one here, certainly. I still don't consider your problems an issue. It's easy to ignore them and if you say can't use a Pit Fiend because you have to look up spells I say play a different game if remembering Fireball does 8d6 damage in a 20 ft radius is too much of a task for you. Almost all of the Monsters other then the Lich if they had spell likes did not have a lot of them and they were easy to remember what they did. With the Lich that thing is terrifying and makes every 4e lich look like an pansy. Because god were the 4e lichs pieces of poo poo that did not deserve the lich name.
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Aug 20, 2014 01:06
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MonsterEnvy posted:I still don't consider your problems an issue. It's easy to ignore them and if you say can't use a Pit Fiend because you have to look up spells I say play a different game if remembering Fireball does 8d6 damage in a 20 ft radius is too much of a task for you. The lich isn't immune to disease right? I couldn't see if it was or not?
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Aug 20, 2014 01:11
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MonsterEnvy posted:I still don't consider your problems an issue. It's easy to ignore them and if you say can't use a Pit Fiend because you have to look up spells I say play a different game if remembering Fireball does 8d6 damage in a 20 ft radius is too much of a task for you. I hope the irony that dragons in every edition of D&D i've played have been colossal chumps for their level.
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Aug 20, 2014 01:14
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Of course the Lich is terrifying. He has an skeleton army, and a overly heavy fly buzzing around the
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Aug 20, 2014 01:14
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D&D NEXT: I still don't consider your problems an issue
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Aug 20, 2014 01:14
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ocrumsprug posted:Of course the Lich is terrifying. He has an skeleton army, and a overly heavy fly buzzing around the Now all D&D games should involve the players being paranoid of flys being secret rocks fall party dies traps.
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Aug 20, 2014 01:16
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MonsterEnvy posted:It's easy to ignore them... You understand that your ability to ignore what's written in a rulebook doesn't actually change the rulebooks that are in front of everyone else, right?
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Aug 20, 2014 01:17
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