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Get ready because we now have TRAILER 2 of LEFT BEHIND!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljo4OxhuADA Also today God's Not Dead is out on demand and purchase.
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Aug 6, 2014 17:46
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Academy Award Winner Nicholas Cage!
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Aug 6, 2014 18:49
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I just realized this would be the perfect thread to talk about Spencer Williams' The Blood of Jesus from 1941: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0QZZ2r3e7s This is a great counterpoint to something like If Footmen Tire You, What Will Horses Do?, because it's an example of an independent Christian film without an overt or reactionary political agenda, which also happens to be a pretty handily illustrate the crossover between Black-American independent film and Christian cinema. For the uninitiated, the term 'race movie' describes a cycle of cinema that began roughly in the 1920s and continued well until the mid-'50s of Black-American independent films. These are distinguished from Hollywood pictures featuring 'all Black casts' in several crucial ways, the most significant being that these films were exclusively produced for segregated film markets. It's important not to overstate the historical impact of race movies. But they're significant to the extent that they give us an idea of what the independent film marketplace looked like outside of art and exploitation films before the passing of the 1964 and '65 Civil Rights Acts, which, ironically, by desegregating movie houses, largely eliminated the demand for films made exclusively for segregated Black audiences. (This, of course, led into the Blaxploitation cycle of the New Hollywood during the late-'60s through the '70s, to the revival of new Black independent cinema in the '80s, to the current niche market of Black films that we know today.) The Blood of Jesus is emblematic of the race movie not only because of its subject matter, but because of the techniques that are used by Williams to tell his story in lieu of a large budget and professional resources. He uses non-continuity editing, a largely non-professional cast (he himself plays the major supporting role), and even uses stock footage culled from the 1911 Italian silent film L'Inferno to depict the procession of souls to Heaven. The story is about a dutiful and faithful woman named Martha (Cathryn Caveiness) who, on the day of her baptism, is accidentally shot by her atheist husband Ras (Williams). While a heart-stricken Ras prays by her bedside, Martha is escorted by an angel who acts as a temporary guide on the path to the afterlife. At the crossroads of Heaven and Hell, the Devil sends Judas (presented in the film as an urban dandy) to tempt Martha with fine clothes and the excitement of urban nightlife. It would be easy to write off Williams' film as a typical redemption story that demonizes urbanity in favor of 'old time religion' and rural community. But I think there's a little more going on here. It's heavily implied that Ras's character, though an essentially good man, has had to resort to poaching from his neighbors to feed himself and his wife, a subtle reference to the systemic poverty that, while never explicitly stated, is the result of historical racism. The Blood of Jesus, then, comes to frame spiritual doubt as an inevitable product of structural inequality, which reinforces cynicism and selfish pride in materialism and temporary excess. The implication is that it is not just Ras's lack of faith in Christ, but his lack of faith in the community which leads to him almost losing the only person he loves more then himself. Meanwhile, Martha being toyed with by Judas and the Devil becomes a metaphor for how Black women are disproportionately affected by poverty, how the ignorance of men blinds them to the cruelty that they inflict on others.
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Aug 6, 2014 19:32
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LloydDobler posted:What I always found really interesting when I was a consumer of Christian music, was that when the media was good enough, it was the Christian fanbase itself that actively attacked it for any reason it could think of. "Sounds too secular" "Not joyful enough" "Dwells on the sinful nature" or whatever reason you have. It's like Stryper - They got crapped on by secular media for being too cheesy and Jesus-y and they got crapped on by Christians for trying too hard to fit in with the secular world. I've read enough blogs and interviews by the guys in the band to know that they were really, really sincere and just wanted to reach as many people as they could with a positive Christian message. Also coming to mind is King's X, a band of Christians rather than a Christian band, where the lead singer admitted that he was struggling with homosexuality but he was doing right by god by remaining celibate, and trying to set an example for others like him. Didn't matter, tons of their Christian fans immediately ex-communicated them while their secular fans laughed at them for participating in religious nonsense. I've been wondering to myself how to bridge that gap for ages. I want it. I visited North Carolina to visit some friends going to a ministry school there back in 2010. Plastic Beach by Gorillaz had just come out and IIRC it was at the top of the charts at the time, and I was overheard listening it. A discussion arose, mostly about why I wasn't listening to more Godly music. Ultimately I asked them, what if Christians could produce their own Plastic Beach? What is the fundamental problem with producing music that non-believers could stand to hear? Millions of people live for and consume music, why can't we reach out with you know, quality music? Yes, we can make praise and worship music, but why can't we also make songs about the finer points of faith? The struggle? The doubts? This stuff isn't sinful, and it might allow us as a whole to connect to a great many people? Anyway they were flustered for an answer. The truth is, evangelicals have a bad habit of running off talented artists for one reason or another. Whether that's cinematography, music, or fine art, it's hard to keep them around much less convince them their talents could be used to make something as good as a chart topping album or a high-grossing movie.
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Aug 6, 2014 23:25
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hemophilia posted:I've been wondering to myself how to bridge that gap for ages. I want it. I visited North Carolina to visit some friends going to a ministry school there back in 2010. Plastic Beach by Gorillaz had just come out and IIRC it was at the top of the charts at the time, and I was overheard listening it. A discussion arose, mostly about why I wasn't listening to more Godly music. Wait, did they not even challenge your basic insinuation that "quality music" goes beyond complete submission and indulgence of God? Like, did it not even occur to them to rebut with something like, "Well, our belief is that the highest calling is to do honor unto God, so Earthly standards don't really apply. We already aim for the highest form of what we do." It's so eerie to me that I as a non-theist can probably think of better Evangelical arguments than actual Evangelists. I suppose the perfection of God somehow doesn't correlate to "more Godly music" necessarily being 'more perfect.'
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Aug 6, 2014 23:59
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My father and I attended a friend's church for a few weeks last year when we were on vacation. He found himself intensely bothered because the church used (pretty decent!) live rock music as the musical component of the services. It's weird because he's not really a fundamentalist, hell, he doesn't even go to church normally. And in everyday life he's a fan of rock music; I guarantee that if the same performing talent had been put into a secular show we'd attended he would have praised it. But he'd just kind of gotten it into his head that "pipe organ+choir playing slow deliberately joyless hymns" was God's favorite musical style, and anything else was sinful - not sinful enough not to enjoy it in everyday life, just sinful enough to desecrate a church by its presence. 
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Aug 7, 2014 00:12
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On the subject of religious media I've long been a fan of the NBC show "Kings" which lasted a single season in 2009. It was a retelling of king David's rise to power set in a modern European-like city state. It had a lot of Game of Thrones like intrigue. The show starred Ian McShane as David's mentor and rival King Saul (renamed Silas for some reason). God never appears directly but is an impersonal and often cruel presence. Kings really never had a chance of taking off. It depicted the Biblical character of Jonathan as gay and didn't shy away from depicting everyone in the story as flawed, so it wasn't going to fly with evangelical audiences. Worth watching if you can track it down.
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Aug 7, 2014 00:25
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K. Waste posted:Wait, did they not even challenge your basic insinuation that "quality music" goes beyond complete submission and indulgence of God? Like, did it not even occur to them to rebut with something like, "Well, our belief is that the highest calling is to do honor unto God, so Earthly standards don't really apply. We already aim for the highest form of what we do." It's so eerie to me that I as a non-theist can probably think of better Evangelical arguments than actual Evangelists. I suppose the perfection of God somehow doesn't correlate to "more Godly music" necessarily being 'more perfect.' I think that line of thinking stopped with Bach. You know, the composer. Who lived almost 500 years ago.
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Aug 7, 2014 00:27
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Grendels Dad posted:I think that line of thinking stopped with Bach. You know, the composer. Who lived almost 500 years ago. But presumably there are still people who devote virtually their entire artistic ability to the indulgence of God, so it confuses me that they apparently admit that godless heathens make better music than they do. Apparently they tacitly recognize that it's just another generic formula, rather than, you know, believing that it actually has any sacred qualities.
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Aug 7, 2014 00:35
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K. Waste posted:Wait, did they not even challenge your basic insinuation that "quality music" goes beyond complete submission and indulgence of God? Like, did it not even occur to them to rebut with something like, "Well, our belief is that the highest calling is to do honor unto God, so Earthly standards don't really apply. We already aim for the highest form of what we do." It's so eerie to me that I as a non-theist can probably think of better Evangelical arguments than actual Evangelists. I suppose the perfection of God somehow doesn't correlate to "more Godly music" necessarily being 'more perfect.' I'm sure they did, and back then I was much more on my "A Game" when it came to dogmatic arguments and my response to that would simply be, "If I must plant my feet and hands in earthly things to bring more people to God, I will." To me there is no transgression against God to stop making mindless praise music in the interest of portraying Christianity as something approachable and Christians as thoughtful, expressive people.
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Aug 7, 2014 00:38
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K. Waste posted:But presumably there are still people who devote virtually their entire artistic ability to the indulgence of God, so it confuses me that they apparently admit that godless heathens make better music than they do. Apparently they tacitly recognize that it's just another generic formula, rather than, you know, believing that it actually has any sacred qualities. I think in order to figure that one out you'd have to look at the change in religion as an institution and not at the individual believers. Institutionalized religion just doesn't seem to be able to inspire and support the kind of artistry it used to.
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Aug 7, 2014 00:39
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hemophilia posted:I've been wondering to myself how to bridge that gap for ages. I want it. I visited North Carolina to visit some friends going to a ministry school there back in 2010. Plastic Beach by Gorillaz had just come out and IIRC it was at the top of the charts at the time, and I was overheard listening it. A discussion arose, mostly about why I wasn't listening to more Godly music. I'm reminded of Wovenhand, who make intensely dark Nick Cavey alt-country music with very old testament lyrics. Despite their frontman being a committed Christian and a preacher's son and playing quite a few Christian music festivals, the majority of the industry want nothing to do with them despite how marketable their sound should be right now (last album being a mix between country troubadour and Black loving Sabbath in sound). Edit: I guess Sufjan Stevens gets a lot of mainstream respect as well. His music isn't for me though, so I'll let someone else speak to that. Angular Landbury fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 16:27
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I feel in the discussion of Christian music some mention should be made of The Bored-Again Christian a (now-defunct) podcast that had as its tagline, "Christian music for people who hate 'Christian music'". It focused largely on indie-sounding stuff and sometimes played songs that had only most tenuously Christian connection ( I'm pretty sure "I have forgiven you Jesus" showed up in one episode). There was quite a bit of decent stuff in there, and I think he had a nice, if niche following at one time.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:51
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Get ready because we now have TRAILER 2 of LEFT BEHIND!! It almost certainly will be better than the books, but that could be the lowest of bars to cross.
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Aug 7, 2014 20:19
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Kings was a great show, and it's a shame it got canned so soon. It may have had a chance on HBO, then we would have totally gotten to see Jonathan and David banging.
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Aug 7, 2014 21:52
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Kings was so ridiculously good and it just happened to come out at that time when NBC was still cancelling shows, looking for a hit, as if there was a chance in hell they would have some kind of hit that might help them compete with CBS or something. Then they gave Community five agonizing seasons. It was really good. It works as a miniseries though, so if it's still on hulu, or wherever you can get it legally, you should watch it if you haven't seen it. One of the better biblical adaptations in recent history.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:40
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Angular Landbury posted:
I think Sufjan is a great example of what hemophilia's describing. A big part of it is that his lyrics seem very honest and never preachy. Most of his songs have nothing to do with religion, and when they do they're usually more abstract and melancholy, focusing on both the comforts and struggles it offers rather than just reminding us Jesus is great. One of my favorite songs of his, Casimir Pulaski Day, is about someone close to him dying of cancer (no idea if it's autobiographical, but it doesn't matter). The song never mentions an afterlife, and it explicitly points to the disappointments that come from hoping prayer will make everything better. There's a clear Christian theme running through it, but it's abstract, uncertain, and focused on the difficulty of accepting God both creating beautiful things/people and taking them away. I barely even see it as a Christian song, even though God's mentioned several times; it's just an exceptionally honest song about dealing with grief from someone who sees things through a Christian lens. The Mountain Goats are another excellent example of this. Honestly, if you broaden your definition of Christian media to just mean media that explores Christian themes, you get a pretty strong pedigree pretty quickly (for example, I don't think putting Pulp Fiction on a list of broadly Christian films would be remotely a stretch) Quovak fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 00:43
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I've heard of product placement but this is an entirely new level Christian Mingle: The Movie quote:
Steven Jobolowsky is one of the stars Mr Ice Cream Glove fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Aug 11, 2014 |
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Aug 11, 2014 15:55
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:I've heard of product placement but this is an entirely new level Oh my God, I have to watch this movie. I do wonder how persistent Christian Mingle is if you sign up with them. I know eHarmony bugs you with emails like a doting mother who just want to see you happy and married and wants you to give her grandchildren. Shut up mom, I'm trying my best!!!!  But enough about that. I've been meaning to go find out how to acquire Irreplaceable. It's the sort of movie that I would hate watch with some beer but it looks like they are only playing it in churches. I would try to get my church to do it but I don't think they'll appreciate me drinking and yelling at the projector screen.
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Aug 11, 2014 16:22
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:I've heard of product placement but this is an entirely new level Only slightly more shameless than The Secret Life Of Walter Mitty: Brought To You By Match.com
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Aug 11, 2014 17:11
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:I've heard of product placement but this is an entirely new level
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Aug 11, 2014 17:18
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Kevin Sorbo from Gods Not Dead was on Access Holywood http://www.accesshollywood.com/kevin-sorbo-on-his-indie-faith-based-hit-gods-not-dead_video_2302237 quote:Sorbo: … I’ve seen these guys [atheists] on TV and cable outlets… Atheists actually have, like, chapters and they have, I mean, it’s weird. I see the anger when these guys get on TV! And I’m going, wow, how do you get so angry about something you don’t believe in?
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Aug 14, 2014 07:19
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It seems like there's a parallel between leftist in-fighting and Christian music in-fighting. Both groups have an overall issue of rejecting people for a lack of ideological purity. I wonder if generic conservatives don't suffer from this issue because they aren't so passionate about their beliefs?
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Aug 14, 2014 09:08
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Xibanya posted:It seems like there's a parallel between leftist in-fighting and Christian music in-fighting. Both groups have an overall issue of rejecting people for a lack of ideological purity. I wonder if generic conservatives don't suffer from this issue because they aren't so passionate about their beliefs? Are you kidding? There's nowhere that ideological purity is a bigger thing right now than with American conservatives.
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Aug 14, 2014 14:21
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raditts posted:Are you kidding? There's nowhere that ideological purity is a bigger thing right now than with American conservatives. I disagree. I think in general they're remarkably good at getting in lockstep with each other. I'm not talking politicians, I'm talking average joe conservatives here.
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Aug 14, 2014 15:55
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One of the things American conservatives are most passionate about is obedience to authority. Lock-step ideological purity is a foundational value for almost all of them, even if they don't seem that political. It's why so many of them vote to take rights away from gay people.
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Aug 14, 2014 17:18
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Good god, what would these propagandists do if they were asked to adapt The End of the Affair? One shudders.
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Aug 14, 2014 19:31
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Angular Landbury posted:I'm reminded of Wovenhand, who make intensely dark Nick Cavey alt-country music with very old testament lyrics. Despite their frontman being a committed Christian and a preacher's son and playing quite a few Christian music festivals, the majority of the industry want nothing to do with them despite how marketable their sound should be right now (last album being a mix between country troubadour and Black loving Sabbath in sound). If you're into batshit experimental folk that's also vaguely religious, Current 93 is kind of doing a similar thing. They've worked with a bunch of crazy artists, from Nick Cave to John Zorn to Thomas Ligotti.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:01
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David Tibet is kinda nutty though. I mean, he had a revelation (admittedly while high as a kite) that Noddy was a god and wrote an album about it. He makes good music though.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:52
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The Gospel Coalition (a very conservative Christian website) had an article the other day about why Christian movies mostly suck. http://thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-problem-with-christian-films. The writer has two main points. One is that the films are inherently dishonest because they are usually little more than thinly veiled attempts to convert (which they are terrible at). His other point is that they don't challenge Christian viewers, because all they do is indulge them in the sort of unrealistic fantasies they already hold. I also like his idea for a God's Not Dead-style movie in which a Christian college student has to come to terms with meeting atheists who are smarter and more ethical than he is. Nothing too different than what has already been discussed here, but surprising coming from such a conservative publication. Of course, I also got an advertisement on the side for a movie called The Identical, which advertises itself with "Ray Liotta in a Christian Film!".
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Aug 20, 2014 23:41
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Malaleb posted:The Gospel Coalition (a very conservative Christian website) had an article the other day about why Christian movies mostly suck. http://thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-problem-with-christian-films.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:08
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Malaleb posted:The Gospel Coalition (a very conservative Christian website) had an article the other day about why Christian movies mostly suck. http://thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-problem-with-christian-films. Pretty ballsy to challenge the successful business model the Christian film industry has achieved. He's also 100% correct about how silly it is to villainize atheists. I'm an atheist, and I have zero interest in seeing say, Bill Maher's Religulous. In addition to it sounding like it being 90 minutes of confirmation bias at best, as I understand it there are Texas sized holes in some of his narrative. Conversely, I'd imagine a rational christian who is fine with people being atheist or agnostic probably feels the same about atheists being villainized. It doesn't help that Maher is a blowhard sexist, but that's another conversation.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:23
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FlamingLiberal posted:It probably doesn't help that something like 'God's Not Dead' is basically the film version of one of those chain emails that used to go around certain circles years ago. Wasn't it literally based on those chain emails?
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Aug 21, 2014 00:24
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raditts posted:Wasn't it literally based on those chain emails? Is it based on the one where the marine (or whatever, I'm sure there are variations, as with most chain emails) coldcocks a professor who dares God to smite him?
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Aug 21, 2014 00:32
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Conversely, I'd imagine a rational christian who is fine with people being atheist or agnostic probably feels the same about atheists being villainized. Absolutely. One of the things I find so offensive about the premise of something like God's Not Dead is that the college professors at my LIBERAL university that talked about religion treated it with the utmost respect, and the lectures some of them gave about mythology, medieval literature, and philosophy had a bigger, more positive impact on my faith than the church I was attending.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:33
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Malaleb posted:Absolutely. One of the things I find so offensive about the premise of something like God's Not Dead is that the college professors at my LIBERAL university that talked about religion treated it with the utmost respect, and the lectures some of them gave about mythology, medieval literature, and philosophy had a bigger, more positive impact on my faith than the church I was attending. Personally, I find religion fascinating. I may not have use for it, but what people do in the name of a deity is pretty drat interesting, and that is probably how those professors view it at the very least. I remember Patton Oswalt had a thing on his blog, where he talked about how, if something is intelligently discussed, it can create interest regardless of preconceived notions. He cited how, even though he doesn't like jazz, reading Louis Armstrong's bio made him want to explore his oeuvre more.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:41
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raditts posted:Wasn't it literally based on those chain emails?
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Aug 21, 2014 00:48
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Yeah, it's funny how nothing can teach you to be a skeptic quite like a religious education, but nothing can get you thinking intensely spiritually quite like a critical secular education. I'd say the combination of the two has made me a very spiritual non-theist.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:50
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K. Waste posted:Yeah, it's funny how nothing can teach you to be a skeptic quite like a religious education, but nothing can get you thinking intensely spiritually quite like a critical secular education. I'd say the combination of the two has made me a very spiritual non-theist. When someone says they are "a spiritual person", I have no idea what that means, especially if they don;t believe in a deity.
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Aug 21, 2014 03:38
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PaulDirac posted:When someone says they are "a spiritual person", I have no idea what that means, especially if they don;t believe in a deity. It's basically a very narcissistic way of saying that I only believe in God when I see really good art.
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Aug 21, 2014 03:43
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