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Spectacle Rock posted:Ferguson Cop Had 'Serious Facial Injury,' Source Tells ABC News So you didn't read any of the last ten pages or so? In the absence of any evidence whatsoever it's a pretty bogus claim. I thought the big idiot avatar change was across the board for anyone with a newbie babby.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:31
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bobtheconqueror posted:What? When they released the footage the chief said they were unrelated, that Wilson didn't stop them for that, and the official reason for its release was a FOIA request. When the initial release happened, the police didn't say they were distinct incidents. The police chief ended up saying what you said later that day, but at the time of release it was "Here's the cop's name, via this information about this robbery that Michael Brown was involved in." It was a very blatant attempt to suggest that they were, in fact, related. Also, the police have said that the reason for release was FOIA, but I remember the ACLU and other organizations who were filing FOIA requests to get the incident report on the shooting were saying that they had made no such request for anything regarding that incident. I really doubt that FOIA was the actual reason that was released, especially because Ferguson PD apparently had to be talked out of releasing it on the day when everyone was having a block party with Captain Johnson.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:34
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whitey delenda est posted:I thought the big idiot avatar change was across the board for anyone with a newbie babby. It is different than it was before, though.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:34
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WarEternal posted:Everyone should probably stop saying he didn't know about it, because since Friday the police have been saying that he did know about it, despite saying earlier on Friday that he didn't know about it. The official police story is going to be that he was aware of the "robbery" at the time he shot Brown. How is this even possible? How? I'm not trying to sound naive; we can stand around trading cynical, depressing one-liners all loving day, because I know just as well as you do how often cops get away with this bullshit, but seriously? This is so incredibly loving blatant that it's farcical. The story has changed so many times on the police end in such a transparently bumbling fashion that even die-hard ARE HEROES types are starting to wince whenever a fresh presser is announced. The chief of police stood in front of a crowd of reporters and stated in an official capacity on live television that the cop was completely unaware of the never-even-formally-reported robbery at the time he stopped Mike and his friend on the street. You can watch the video right now from multiple sources, and then track the progression from this to 'Well, maybe he saw the cigars in Brown's hand' to 'Cigars being such rare items for anyone to possess, Wilson must have used his psychic powers to intuit that these could only be connected to an earlier incident he also had no idea had even happened' to 'Oh, you're actually buying that? Never mind then, guys, he totally knew about it at the time. For sure.' It's like watching an 8 year old try to come up with a plausible lie on the spot by stammering NO REALLY, MOM, I SWEAR! over and over while darting their eyes around nervously.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:35
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look man they finally got the forums in a place where they can change anything without the servers literally catching on fire, let 'em run free for a while
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Aug 21, 2014 00:35
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Since they released all of the information on the store confrontation, did they state when the first officer arrived there? Also, did they date when they requested the surveillance footage? Also, did they release the store's incident report about the confrontation? I worked at a gas station and standard procedure was THE EMPLOYEES call the police even if someone else stated that they did. Also, the few times I did have to call police (drive offs and some stealing our space heaters from the bathroom), I had to wait for the police to come there to give a description of the people and the incident. It seems like it would be a long shot for an officer to arrive (on a call involving no real emergency and $50 worth of product stolen), get the information (view footage like all of my incidents involved), and make the call in less than 15 minutes. Never mind the fact that if the "robbery" was on the radar at the time, the police department would have made that known and the video released immediately.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:39
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What astonishes me with the police now is, what the hell are they accomplishing with all of this? Is all of this really just to protect the privilege of a policeman to kill a black guy (or whoever) without consequences or public disapproval? Now they're busting into churches, apparently.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:43
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This explains the police bungling things fairly well. It is Rachel Maddow. I could round all of this up myself, but posting her video is far easier. Sorry, I'm lazy. This video is from Friday. http://on.msnbc.com/1qdWsEh
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Aug 21, 2014 00:44
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Nessus posted:What astonishes me with the police now is, what the hell are they accomplishing with all of this? Is all of this really just to protect the privilege of a policeman to kill a black guy (or whoever) without consequences or public disapproval? Now they're busting into churches, apparently. Have to make sure everybody knows who's in charge around here.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:45
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Stultus Maximus posted:Have to make sure everybody knows who's in charge around here.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:46
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Cuntpunch posted:Doesn't SOP also assume you shouldn't be shooting at unarmed suspects? Regardless of that, supposing the story is correct, Brown failed to follow the SOP you describe because he fired a couple of times and likely hit Brown at least once. This stopped Brown's attempt to escape, changing it into an attempt to surrender, at which point the officer closed the distance and fired more shots to finish him. SOP is to fire until the threat is neutralized. That doesn't necessarily mean "killed", though few threats are non-lethally stopped when shooting them with firearms. Some have actually survived, as they stopped fighting or collapsed after being hit non-fatally and medical attention arrived in time to save them. What makes Wilson's case problematic is that he fired at all, since witness statements are that he shot at a fleeing unarmed suspect (which is a very big no-no if the guy's not a threat to anybody, and just being a chubby 6'4 guy isn't a threat), and then shot at someone who was surrendering. As soon as someone who is not a threat purely by his existence runs, you can't shoot him. As soon as someone surrenders, you can't shoot him. At least, that's how it should be. In reality the cops can twist the facts easily and have things judged in their favor, especially when killing a BLACK THUG YOUTH
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Aug 21, 2014 00:49
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chitoryu12 posted:At least, that's how it should be. In reality the cops can twist the facts easily and have things judged in their favor, especially when killing a BLACK THUG YOUTH He was neutralizing an MMA champion, marijuana addled, master criminal murder machine. Sheesh, with all the misinformation already going around...
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Aug 21, 2014 00:55
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Pohl posted:It doesn't matter, because the police hosed up. First they come out and release the video, and refuse to take questions so reporters can digest the information they have been provided. The implication is,Brown was killed because of the Robbery. Pure and simple. Look at my first post in this thread, the police chief at the press conference at 3PM said the "initial" contact had nothing to do with the robbery, however, the police story is that he circled around directly after said "initial contact" because he realized that Brown matched description of a robbery suspect. I agree with you that they're lying, I said as much on Friday. In my opinion, the reason that they worded it the way they did in the press conference was to make people say over, and over and over again that Wilson "didn't know" when their actual story is that he did. They do this so that people who don't know better can seemingly write you off when you say "the cop didn't even know about the alleged robbery!". They've clearly succeeded in doing so. The same thing happened on, I think, Saturday night when they said "It's not tear gas" and then directly after said "Actually, it is tear gas". LZEnglish posted:How is this even possible? How?... According to the police, it was formally reported.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:01
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On Terra Firma posted:I don't know why it wasn't mentioned more often, but someone said something a few pages back about brown being in flip flops, while wearing socks (so they aren't the thong style that slip between your toes.) No matter what's on your feet, why would you ever charge someone that's over 20 feet away and pointing a gun at you? Also, there's video of yesterday's officer-involved shooting in STL from beginning to end.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-P54MZVxMU
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Aug 21, 2014 01:07
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WarEternal posted:Look at my first post in this thread, the police chief at the press conference at 3PM said the "initial" contact had nothing to do with the robbery, however, the police story is that he circled around directly after said "initial contact" because he realized that Brown matched description of a robbery suspect. I agree with you that they're lying, I said as much on Friday. WarEternal posted:Everyone should probably stop saying he didn't know about it, because since Friday the police have been saying that he did know about it, despite saying earlier on Friday that he didn't know about it. The official police story is going to be that he was aware of the "robbery" at the time he shot Brown. Where are you seeing this at? I'd like some links, because I must have missed them changing their story so dramatically. Thanks in advance!
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Aug 21, 2014 01:12
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Rhesus Pieces posted:No matter what's on your feet, why would you ever charge someone that's over 20 feet away and pointing a gun at you? I only rewatched a couple times but honestly I don't see either a provocation for the cops to step out of their car and immediately pull their guns, nor do I see a knife. The guy filming on his cellphone and several other people walk by and clearly realize the victim is not "all there" but he's not being violent or making much of a scene. Then the cops pull in guns drawn, the guy says "shoot me shoot me kill me now" and walks towards them, they empty a ton of rounds into him. I didn't see a knife but I suppose he could have pulled something quickly and at close range the cops had no time but to fire. Still, I really see no reason why they needed to start the confrontation with guns on the guy. Again, seems to be needlessly aggressive toward someone who's clearly not of a sound state of mind. Edit: no I can hear the cops saying "drop it" several times as he advances, so there's likely a knife pulled. Still, it's just a black dude with two cans of soda (did he steal those??) being agitated on the sidewalk near a bus stop. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 01:14
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Pellisworth posted:I only rewatched a couple times but honestly I don't see either a provocation for the cops to step out of their car and immediately pull their guns, nor do I see a knife. The guy filming on his cellphone and several other people walk by and clearly realize the victim is not "all there" but he's not being violent or making much of a scene. Then the cops pull in guns drawn, the guy says "shoot me shoot me kill me now" and walks towards them, they empty a ton of rounds into him. I didn't see a knife but I suppose he could have pulled something quickly and at close range the cops had no time but to fire. it makes a lot more sense when you bear in mind that most cops are cowards
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Aug 21, 2014 01:15
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Rhesus Pieces posted:No matter what's on your feet, why would you ever charge someone that's over 20 feet away and pointing a gun at you? That is hosed up.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:17
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Rhesus Pieces posted:No matter what's on your feet, why would you ever charge someone that's over 20 feet away and pointing a gun at you?
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Aug 21, 2014 01:18
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Pellisworth posted:I only rewatched a couple times but honestly I don't see either a provocation for the cops to step out of their car and immediately pull their guns, nor do I see a knife. The guy filming on his cellphone and several other people walk by and clearly realize the victim is not "all there" but he's not being violent or making much of a scene. Then the cops pull in guns drawn, the guy says "shoot me shoot me kill me now" and walks towards them, they empty a ton of rounds into him. I didn't see a knife but I suppose he could have pulled something quickly and at close range the cops had no time but to fire. I assume the guns were drawn because he had his hands in his pockets which is pretty standard. I have to rewatch the video and process things before I can come to an opinion. Watching something like this is never easy EDIT: We also have no context of what happened before the encounter. Was he being belligerent? Why were the police called? SirJohnnyMcDonald fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 01:18
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Pohl posted:Where are you seeing this at? I'd like some links, because I must have missed them changing their story so dramatically. http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-what-we-know-don%27t-know quote:Update, 7:00 p.m. ET: Chief Jackson presented a slightly different account early Friday evening, telling NBC News that while the police officer who shot Brown initially stopped him for walking in the street and blocking traffic, “at some point” during the encounter the officer saw cigars in Brown’s hands and thought he might be a suspect in the robbery. Thanks for being reasonable and simply asking!
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Aug 21, 2014 01:19
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iostream.h posted:Jesus loving Christ, I counted 6 shots AFTER he hit the loving ground! This. And also lol at the description of that as a lunge.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:20
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SirJohnnyMcDonald posted:I assume the guns were drawn because he had his hands in his pockets which is pretty standard. (If you're black) Police don't normally draw guns on people with their hands in their pockets.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:22
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Pellisworth posted:I only rewatched a couple times but honestly I don't see either a provocation for the cops to step out of their car and immediately pull their guns, nor do I see a knife. The guy filming on his cellphone and several other people walk by and clearly realize the victim is not "all there" but he's not being violent or making much of a scene. Then the cops pull in guns drawn, the guy says "shoot me shoot me kill me now" and walks towards them, they empty a ton of rounds into him. I didn't see a knife but I suppose he could have pulled something quickly and at close range the cops had no time but to fire.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:22
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Reason posted:(If you're black) Police don't normally draw guns on people with their hands in their pockets. Depends on the context of why they were called. They will draw if they have reason to believe you are armed, regardless of race.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:24
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Pohl posted:That is hosed up. Rewatching again, this is pretty much my take: Guy filming on cellphone comments his buddy sees the victim steal sodas, buddy calls cameraman up because this poo poo is crazy. He circles around the victim and a couple people walk by on the sidewalk, the victim looks agitated and has two cans of soda set on the sidewalk, pacing around. "Get the gently caress away from me. You know who I am, I'm on instagram and Facebook and poo poo." "Did someone call the cops?" About 1:20 Cop car pulls up, two officers step out guns drawn. The knife comes out AFTER the guns are trained on him. So, in a court of law I imagine there's little chance it isn't a justified shooting, but there was no way the cops needed to escalate the situation like that. Holy gently caress, they pulled in with guns out so they must have known the guy was agitated, and there's all these bystanders who are keeping an eye on the victim, he clearly wasn't violent toward them. The police escalated to deadly force first and guess who won? Edit: looks to me like the victim stole the sodas, maybe he was making comments about wanting to die or other things about the police? The implication I get from the conversation of the bystanders is the guy stole the sodas to try and "bait" the cops. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 01:24
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Not very many people out here at all.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:27
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Pellisworth posted:I only rewatched a couple times but honestly I don't see either a provocation for the cops to step out of their car and immediately pull their guns, nor do I see a knife. The response times to emergency 911 calls are gonna go up petty fast if the hive-mind here thinks police should have a policy of not getting out of their car when they arrive to a scene. Pellisworth posted:pull their guns, nor do I see a knife. Well we're all glad in your "rewatched a couple times" a video from one angle of an incident on youtube opinion that there was A. no threat to the community or officers and B. no weapon in possession. Not like further context is ever something to consider. They already knew he had a knife: Powell started throwing the items on the street and sidewalk. St. Louis Alderman Dionne Flowers, who owns a nearby beauty shop, witnessed the encounter and told officers the man was acting erratically and had a knife. Dotson said the store owner and the alderman said the suspect was “armed with a knife, acting erratically, pacing back and forth in the street, talking to himself.” The store owner from the market and Flowers called 911. Untagged fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 01:29
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Neo Duckberg posted:Not very many people out here at all. How does that compare to how many people have been out at this time over the last few days? Is the atmosphere tense or are things just calming down?
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Aug 21, 2014 01:29
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WarEternal posted:http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-what-we-know-don%27t-know drat, that is really loving convenient. Of course I'm reasonable, I have no reason to fight with you. 
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Aug 21, 2014 01:30
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Untagged posted:The response times to emergency 911 calls are gonna go up petty fast if the hive-mind here thinks police should have a policy of not getting out of their car when they arrive to a scene. This works better if you edit out the "and" between those two parts, instead of bolding it
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Aug 21, 2014 01:30
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Shooting and waiting for the threat to subdue would have been enough. Even if the initial shot or two was justified, it is not unreasonable to wait for effects, instead of firing bazillion shots.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:30
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Didn't the police claim that the person "lunged" with the knife in an "overhand grip"? That's not what it looks like in the video at all, but it's hard to tell exactly what went down from that distance. Do STL Metro PD cars have dashcams?
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Aug 21, 2014 01:30
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Untagged posted:The response times to emergency 911 calls are gonna go up petty fast if the hive-mind here thinks police should have a policy of not getting out of their car when they arrive to a scene. You might want to consider brushing up on your comprehension if you think the thing Pellisworth was upset with was the "getting out of their car" part and not the "immediately drawing weapons" part.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:33
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There's about as many cops and media as there are other people. Few protestors. Anderson pooper still here.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:33
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Untagged posted:The response times to emergency 911 calls are gonna go up petty fast if the hive-mind here thinks police should have a policy of not getting out of their car when they arrive to a scene. I have no idea where all this snark is coming from. The notable bit was not the cops getting out of the car, but that their weapons came out immediately. They escalated the situation to deadly force upon arrival. I went back and edited my post, you can see him draw the knife and if you listen carefully the cops and I think one of the bystanders says "drop it" several times. He draws it AFTER the guns come out.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:34
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Neo Duckberg posted:There's about as many cops and media as there are other people. Few protestors. Anderson pooper still here. Welp, looks like literally beating people into submission works.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:34
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Zeitgueist posted:Welp, looks like literally beating people into submission works. Has for thousands of years.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:36
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No chanting, pretty goddamn quiet.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:36
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Untagged posted:The response times to emergency 911 calls are gonna go up petty fast if the hive-mind here thinks police should have a policy of not getting out of their car when they arrive to a scene. He wasn't presenting a threat to anyone, so there was no reason for the cops to roll up, jump out of their car and draw their guns. They had plenty of time to create a strategy that could have ended this with him alive. I made a non emergency call to police dispatch within the last year about a dispute a neighbor and I were having, and it wasn't long after I hung up, that the responding officer called me on his cell phone. He wanted to know what was going on, so he had some information before he arrived. I certainly don't know what happened in this case, but the cops did not need to come up with their car to the scene and confront him directly.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:37
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