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Eschatos posted:Those are some rather vague descriptions. Pretty much any nation can be a bless nation, and everyone benefits from an awake SC and magic scales. There isn't just one optimal strategy for the majority of nations. Well, obviously there isn't an optimal strategy for each nation. In fact the game would be pretty bad if that would be the case. But for total noobs that don't know poo poo about the nations a guide like that would be helpful. Think of it as a 5-6 lines guide for each nation, with which units are cost effective and which unit to ignore, spells to aim for, etc.
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Aug 20, 2014 20:53
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Jabarto posted:I thought inanimate units couldn't regenerate? At least Golems never seem to. Bless regen is natural regen, which works on normally unregenerate-able things like skeletons and golems. It works on all of MA agartha's statues.
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Aug 20, 2014 21:02
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Turin Turambar posted:Well, obviously there isn't an optimal strategy for each nation. In fact the game would be pretty bad if that would be the case. But for total noobs that don't know poo poo about the nations a guide like that would be helpful. Think of it as a 5-6 lines guide for each nation, with which units are cost effective and which unit to ignore, spells to aim for, etc. I don't think you quite understand how much of a huge thing this would be.
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Aug 20, 2014 21:06
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Bless regen is natural regen, which works on normally unregenerate-able things like skeletons and golems. It works on all of MA agartha's statues. drat, I wish I knew this before. Time to give Agartha a try.
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Aug 20, 2014 21:12
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Turin Turambar posted:Now you mention it, it would be pretty useful if someone (not me, I'm really not a veteran) at least would make a TLDR summary of nations like "nations A, B, C and D are bless nations, nations E and F benefit a lot of an awake SC, F, G and H need order, I and J can play with turmoil, K and L are resource heavy, C, D and G benefit from extra magic scales" etc etc. Any suggestions would be in the most general terms. I may still help with it but it would turn into a huge dumb discussion.
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Aug 20, 2014 21:27
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Turin Turambar posted:Well, obviously there isn't an optimal strategy for each nation. In fact the game would be pretty bad if that would be the case. But for total noobs that don't know poo poo about the nations a guide like that would be helpful. Think of it as a 5-6 lines guide for each nation, with which units are cost effective and which unit to ignore, spells to aim for, etc. There are 70ish nations in the game. If you give us nations you want advice with, we can give that, but for the entire game is alot of work.
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Aug 20, 2014 21:39
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As long as we're talking about nation strategies, how would people feel about using a Statue of Fertility for a N9E4 bless on MA Pythium? On paper it has some nice benefits but I'm not quite sure how well they would pan out in practice: - Makes your fragile mages harder to kill. - Extremely durable communions since mages will recover fatigue and regenerate damage if it goes above 200, meaning you can get away with fewer slaves. - Possibly make Battle Vestals worth using for early expansion? If you can keep arrows off them they might just be cost-effective enough to work. - Makes the angelic summons really fearsome if you can get that far. - Can forge dwarven hammers. - Still has points for Dom 9 and 5 positive scales if you imprison it.
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Aug 20, 2014 22:07
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ChickenWing posted:I don't think you quite understand how much of a huge thing this would be. How's this for a test one, what do you think, older and newer players? (and it's not like we couldn't spoil these in the OP or some post somewhere). Nation Tips: EA Ulm: - Decent, often stealthy troops which require moderate resources, with a lot of out-of-fort recruitment options. Has a pretty good, if human-sized sacred unit, which is capital-only. F9, W9 or N9 are all good major blesses if you can spare the points. - Mages are good at forging items, Shamans are recruitable in mountains and forests outside of forts, and are always pretty good at battlemagic, but a little inconsistent. - Reliably good early research targets: Alteration 2 for Earth Meld (pins down enemy troops), Enchantment 3 for Strength of Giants (+4 Strength for a ton of soldiers, big troop buff, can be cast by an Earth-2 Shaman with an Earth Gem), Animate/Raise Skeletons (extra troops that distract mage-priests, and can fight against Awe/Fear), and Create Revenant (useful, upkeep-free research mage in peacetime, and reliable source of more skeletons and undead leadership in war). - Pretenders: Pretty much anything can work. They have great expansion because their recruitment is very dependable and flexible, but it can always be better with a Dragon or similar. Their troops and mages synergise very well, so a scales build can work. Their magic diversity is relatively good, but it lacks innate Astral and high-level Nature for big globals like Gift of Health, so if you want those, make sure to get them on your God. - Scales: Moderate-high income requirements (troops are a little pricey in gold, and mages require a temple and/or a fort), you can run production-neutral (especially since you have a mage that gives you bonus resources), and you're great early-game, so Cold is a good scale (because it means you can cross rivers for longer). Growth and Luck to taste, probably don't run Drain, because your mages aren't cheap, and your research boosting items come a little late. jBrereton fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 22:38
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EA Ulm is also the most mobile nation in the game outside of Caelum due to the fact most of them have forest AND mountain survival.
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Aug 20, 2014 23:14
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EA Niefelheim: -Play the Giant Niefelheim race in the early era -Then do absolutely nothing for the first 10-20 turns and save up your gold until you have at least 4,000 on hand.
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Aug 20, 2014 23:26
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ChickenWing posted:I don't think you quite understand how much of a huge thing this would be. There are 76 nations in the game and I know how to multiply, so yeah I know it would be a lot, which I was saying another one than me should do it har har :P. But hey, some people has written dozens and dozens of pages of their AAR/LP or they have written very extensive guides of a specific nation, so someone writing 5 lines for each nation isn't in the realm of impossibility. nothing to seehere posted:There are 70ish nations in the game. If you give us nations you want advice with, we can give that, but for the entire game is alot of work. Ok, I will ask for one. EA Marverni. I never played them. (Actually I never played a lot of nations, as I started to play this game a few months ago.)
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Aug 20, 2014 23:28
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^^^ I think you literally picked one of the worst nations in the game that no one playsJabarto posted:As long as we're talking about nation strategies, how would people feel about using a Statue of Fertility for a N9E4 bless on MA Pythium? On paper it has some nice benefits but I'm not quite sure how well they would pan out in practice: If you are taking N9 bless on your communion sacred mages you do not need e4. It's one of the other, and with communions it's N9>e4 by a huge margin. On top of that, if you get a single n1 mage into your communion through any means (lizard province, or even just a Crystal Matrix on a shaman) the N9 bless is also somewhat, but not entirely, superfluous. So basically N9 is an option, but not totally optimal. Heavy communion nations don't actually NEED a bless regardless, but you can at least look into it. I Love You! fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 23:50
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I would get several minor blesses. E (for reinvig and the fact you'll want crystal coins), A (for precision boosting and boosters/wing boots), and S (MR and general astral stuff).
amuayse fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 23:53
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i want marverni to be cool because boars are cool but life is cruel and unfair
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Aug 20, 2014 23:57
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OK I'm going to write some 5 line nation guides. These are not the ONLY way to play, they are however how you should play as a newbie. C'tis (any era) Your god choice is very open! You don't need a bless. You want solid scales and could use some early help expanding. I actually really like an awake Lich or even dormant, Dom9 is nice but not necessary, and you can use him to tank pretty well when expanding/transition into a very powerful skellyspammer in the midgame. 1. Beeline down the enchant tree. Your research goals are enchant 3 (skeletons) and enchant 5 (Horde of skeletons, Pale Riders) and Enchant 6 (rigor mortis). At this point your army should be composed mostly of mages along with lines of troops designed to hang around and block for your mages, then move in behind your skeletons. If you are MA Ctis, you also get enchant 4 - Foul Vapors to give you a stronger midgame push prior to rigor mortis. 2. Early on, you will be using your cheap heavy infantry and/or slave troops to expand. At some point you will shift to small parties mages casting Horde of Skeletons instead while troops mostly stand around and block for mages. 3. Your goal is to make TONS of forts + labs and pump out your D2 and D3+ mages. Cut troops whenever possible to make more forts, labs, and mages. 4. As soon as you hit Enchant 5, liquidate your gems casting Pale Riders if you are in a position to war someone profitably. Use these to add a huge power push to your armies or to suddenly crush someone who things they have you locked down. 4. A d3 mage can cast Rigor Mortis with 2 gems. Every serious army battle should start with rigor mortis followed by all your mages spamming skellies. Yes, this will fatigue out your own troops and mages. NO, YOU DO NOT CARE. TRUST ME ON THIS. If you are MA C'tis, add foul vapors to your "start the battle by casting this spell every time" list. 5. Troop formation looks like this: mages in back, spread out vertically, fairly far back under most conditions. Barely in front of them, a long line of heavy infantry in line formation set on hold and attack. Then in front of that, a line of pale riders set on sparse line formation set on hold and attack. If you have more lines of troops, alternate them like this, undead then living then undead, but you shouldn't have THAT many troops. A very small squad of pale riders at north and south edges of the middle of the map on Attack Rear in box formation. 6. You may want to have your living infantry start out BEHIND you mages so skeletons get in front of them, or swap the positions of your infantry with your riders based on the troops/spells you expect to see, etc. 7. When cracking a fort make sure your pale riders aren't in line formation if you need them to crash a gate because they will move slowly and just slam into the wall uselessly. 8. Abuse your really powerful midgame and fort fort fort lab lab lab. LA C'tis gets to add tomb chariots and such summons to their army situation so they can actually have a Standing Army unlike EA and MA which typically are largely mage masses, but the general gist of things stays similar. C'tis is probably the easiest nation in the game to learn. I Love You! fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 00:04
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jBrereton posted:EA Ulm: I'd add that having scouts you can recruit in any mountain or forest can be hugely satisfying, going by my current EA Ulm game. Sometimes scout provinces can be frustratingly rare and intel is always appreciated.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:06
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Learning from Orchard, C'tis is also the best anti undead faction in the game due to having combinations of H3s for very strong banishment, water (cleaning water), nature (ravenous swarm and swarm/creeping doom for non-undead chaff), astral (solar rays/brilliance), death (wither bones/control the dead), and fire to roast the skeles. Amulet of the Dead will also cause reanimator priests to summon more undead.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:13
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amuayse posted:Learning from Orchard, C'tis is also the best anti undead faction in the game due to having combinations of H3s for very strong banishment, water (cleaning water), nature (ravenous swarm and swarm/creeping doom for non-undead chaff), astral (solar rays/brilliance), death (wither bones/control the dead), and fire to roast the skeles. Sceleria is the best anti-undead faction in the game and it's not even close but C'tis gets the job done alright
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Aug 21, 2014 00:18
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Eh, Sceleria doesn't get recruit anywhere marshmasters though.
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Aug 21, 2014 00:21
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lemuria is the best anti undead faction because they get freespawn that can cast unholy command, to steal the undeads.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:52
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The Dom 1 human mages, what do you do with them? I find Dom gets really expensive so I never go them, but I'm sure they useful. I just don't have the skills to know what for.
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Aug 21, 2014 02:00
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I Love You! posted:Sceleria is the best anti-undead faction in the game and it's not even close Scelaria is like the most tedious nation in the game to play as or against, for everyone new. Eventually you will run into a massive storm of Nether Bolts which are going to destroy your troops and mages forever, and so many skeletons you just want to die in real life. But their mages are old (even some of their troops are old, it's a shambles), and they are really one-dimensional, so there we go. I guess if you find a way around one of their disgusting ultra-communions you're golden (Banish spam with massive penetration isn't so much a potential option as an absolute given, since they have S1H2 mages everywhere). Lord Windy posted:The Dom 1 human mages, what do you do with them?
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Aug 21, 2014 02:08
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Is there a particular age I should be playing in as I learn the game?
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Aug 21, 2014 03:24
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fool_of_sound posted:Is there a particular age I should be playing in as I learn the game? EA means not having to worry about Ashen Empire or Dreamlands bullshit spawning as a random AI nation. It also has the most powerful mages, so you can learn about battle magic more easily.
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Aug 21, 2014 05:46
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EA is also the era of the hyperbless and ponymans so that is something to keep in mind.
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Aug 21, 2014 06:14
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Turin Turambar posted:
Marveni are not often picked in the current metagame, due to balance changes from dom3 to dom4. The previous recruit-anywhere druids have been made capital only ans Slow to recruit, going from "A human nation in time of magic which makes up for troop problems with good magic" to "A human nation in time of magic with not good enough troops or magic" Here are some tips anyways with them. Prentender: Marveni can have expansion issues and is vulnerable to early rushs, so a dragon can be a good choice to counter that. Alternatively, you can invest in high scales to play to your strengths, with an oracle or similar as the chassis. Order 3, production neutral at least, depending on map and points heat/cold 1 can open up the map for a small income loss otherwise neutral, growth is good if you have points for it, magic is optional but drain is bad due to required research. Luck/misfortune is a personal choice. Troops: Your barechest troops make good siege fodder, but the lack of armour means they should not be a mainstay. Carnute nobles make good chaff for your communions, because berserk means they will fight to the death, giving your mages more turns to throw rocks at the enemy. Eponi Calvary lack lances, but are cheapist and expansion parties of around 12 of them can take most indies. Mages: Your druids are designed for use in small communions lead by E2 druids, throwing either Blade Wind (evo 4) at lightly armoured humans or Gifts from Heaven (evo 5) at anything else. E2 druids can also buff your troops as noted in the EA ulm guide above. Elder druids can do the same but better and sometimes alone, and have more rituals open to them. Most notably Mind Hunt (evo 6 and thaum 5), which half of Elder druids can cast with a single booster (crystal coin or starshine skullcap) and 1/16 natively. If your opponent lacks S magic this allows you to kill his commanders with impunity, which is a massive advantage and counters most raiders.
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Aug 21, 2014 06:31
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Another Marverni related tip: cast Iron Pigs. Marverni have a unique thing where if they cast Iron Pigs they get sacred Iron Boars instead which have 10 more hp, 5 more morale, 3 more strength, 4 more attack, 3 less encumberance and 4 more ap as well as not being undisciplined compared to Iron Pigs. Iron boars with an N9 bless are pretty great at stomping all over infantry lines. And at a cost of 10 earth gems for 7 Iron Boars they are remarkably cost-efficient.
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Aug 21, 2014 06:53
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Really any summon that gets you sacred troops is worth spamming. There's probably an exception somewhere but with most nations stuck on capital only sacreds being able to crap out a ton at any fort is great.
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Aug 21, 2014 07:08
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Yeah but I like to point out the Marverni thing because there is no in-game indication that Marverni get special sacred Iron Boars by casting Iron Pigs. You know I never fully processed Iron Boars but at 10 earth gems for 7 Iron Boars they might be one of the most cost-effective summons in the game.
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Aug 21, 2014 07:11
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Neruz posted:Yeah but I like to point out the Marverni thing because there is no in-game indication that Marverni get special sacred Iron Boars by casting Iron Pigs. Niefel and Fomoria have some pretty drat efficient ones. 5 giant sacred fearwolves with 2 attacks for 10 gems on one and 9 sacred sneaky darkpower dogs for 13 gems on the other.
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Aug 21, 2014 07:15
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Neruz posted:Another Marverni related tip: cast Iron Pigs. Marverni have a unique thing where if they cast Iron Pigs they get sacred Iron Boars instead which have 10 more hp, 5 more morale, 3 more strength, 4 more attack, 3 less encumberance and 4 more ap as well as not being undisciplined compared to Iron Pigs. Huh, never knew that. Goes to show however much you think you know about this game you still have more to learn.
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Aug 21, 2014 07:43
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I Love You! posted:OK I'm going to write some 5 line nation guides. These are not the ONLY way to play, they are however how you should play as a newbie. Thanks for the miniguide. Any comments about the MA C'tis special dominion? I suppose it's worth to invest a pair more of dominion strength points for them.
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Aug 21, 2014 11:18
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Every nation in the game benefits from more dom candles; you are probably undervaluing dom score, which is normal for people who are new to the game and do not understand just how important having a strong dominion is. MA C'tis though is an interesting one because they have toxic dom, so you actually don't want to push your dom too hard as MA C'tis because if you push your dom into enemy territories you will annoy them and make them want to attack you. On the other hand though no-one except Ermor wants to attack MA C'tis unless they have to because disease dom is a gigantic pain in the rear end so it is arguably a better choice to avoid spreading your dom too much to take advantage of the fact that nobody wants to touch you. e: Basically MA C'tis is kind of like poop; nobody wants to touch poop unless they have to so people will usually leave MA C'tis alone unless C'tis forces the issue. Neruz fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 11:26
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Neruz posted:Every nation in the game benefits from more dom candles; you are probably undervaluing dom score, which is normal for people who are new to the game and do not understand just how important having a strong dominion is. Heh heh true, I think I lost my second or third AI game being domkilled.
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Aug 21, 2014 11:35
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Honestly in my experience people tend to dogpile MA C'tis hard in the midgame since it is virtually impossible as them to have a true ally by that point, every neighbor secretly wants you real dead real soon.
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Aug 21, 2014 11:36
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I Love You! posted:Honestly in my experience people tend to dogpile MA C'tis hard in the midgame since it is virtually impossible as them to have a true ally by that point, every neighbor secretly wants you real dead real soon. Dogpiles are wierd in the current meta though; current goons seem to mostly be loving terrible at diplomacy and negotiations and I've seen a lot of situations where one nation really should have been dogpiled but wasn't because the nations around it never managed to get their poo poo together. Like, I agree with you at a theoretical level but I disagree on a practical one. Nobody wants to be the first person to attack MA C'tis so you typically either get nobody attacking you or one person finally having enough and attacking you which instantly opens the floodgates for literally everyone else to attack you. If you can manage to be nonthreatening enough (or at least appear nonthreatening enough) to avoid that first attack or just do some diplomacy you should be okay.
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Aug 21, 2014 11:55
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Neruz posted:Dogpiles are wierd in the current meta though; current goons seem to mostly be loving terrible at diplomacy and negotiations and I've seen a lot of situations where one nation really should have been dogpiled but wasn't because the nations around it never managed to get their poo poo together. Yeah im experiencing this right now, part of this comes down to maps as well wherein maps that only wraparound in one direction often leave you unable to fight someone on the other end of the world that you really really need to. It happens in so many goddam games.
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Aug 21, 2014 15:12
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Is there a way of boosting a commander's Holy magic level other than the late game artifacts? Do Communions/Sabbats work? I want to be able to run Sacred troops, but I don't seem to have any 3+ Holy priests except my Prophet.
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Aug 21, 2014 15:33
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Communions/Sabbaths do in fact boost holy levels when relevant.
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Aug 21, 2014 15:35
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fool_of_sound posted:Is there a way of boosting a commander's Holy magic level other than the late game artifacts? Do Communions/Sabbats work? I want to be able to run Sacred troops, but I don't seem to have any 3+ Holy priests except my Prophet. Communions work, communioned banish spam is why Pythium are terrors against demons and undead.
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Aug 21, 2014 15:36
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