|
As much as I'm not a fan of internal bickering for the federal NDP, this pleases me.quote:A New Democrat MP has quit the caucus over what she felt was an excessively pro-Israel stance on the current conflict in Gaza and demeaning party demands to toe the line. It goes on about how this might just be about her poo poo work record (who knew all parliamentarians were lazy fucks?) but I'm just happy to see anything about how dumb this Israel cock-sucking contest.
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 22:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 01:56 |
|
|
Rime posted:^ To be fair, this has all changed within our (or our parents) lifetimes. To take it back a page, BC (and Canada!) was so successful until the late 1970's precisely because politicians like WAC Bennett believed and espoused all of those things you listed. The paradigm change into our leaders being corrupt as gently caress robber barons like the USA is relatively new. ARACHTION posted:Yeah, I think the hate that the guy in my class found was mostly concentrated in mainstream media. Otherwise, he consistently got a large percentage of the vote while he was in office. Umm, aren't you guys are mixing Dave Barrett up with Bennett? I was under the impression that Barrett was constantly lambasted in the media while his gov't reformed or built from scratch most of our social and economic practices and institutions. Bennett rarely did much of anything (laissez-faire and all that) and the media loved him for it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 22:37
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:That is true to an extent, I know a lot of english majors and their #1 complaint is that people aren't taught to be concise, they're taught to say as little as possible in as much text as possible. A couple of them went into journalism where it's the opposite where you have strict limits rather than page miniums and weren't prepared at all. I don't get the whole "quantity" focus in the humanities. That really hasn't been my experience. Literature papers tend to be tiny, no more than 10 pages, while history papers tend to be two to three times that in undergrad courses. You can be concise in 10 pages or 30 pages, it depends on what you're writing about and what kind of paper you're writing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:18
|
|
|
Cultural Imperial posted:In canada, your waterloo math degree necessitates that you move somewhere else to reap its benefits. Well, moving somewhere other than Kitchner-Waterloo is usually seen as a plus.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:22
|
|
|
blah_blah posted:Well, moving somewhere other than Kitchner-Waterloo is usually seen as a plus. Don't start questioning the logic behind a Cultural Imperial post. Not when he argues that it doesn't matter what you major in because you won't learn anything. Then you might as well go to Oxbridge because it guarantees you a job in London instead of UW because it won't guarantee a job in K-W.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:28
|
|
|
Maybe things have improved since my elementary and secondary days, but in hindsight I see the lack of both opportunity and education about the trades as one of the biggest failings of the education system, at least in my time. Never mind being discouraged from it, we were almost never told about it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:36
|
|
|
JoelJoel posted:As much as I'm not a fan of internal bickering for the federal NDP, this pleases me. She's had two kids in three years. Maybe we shouldn't hold her maternity against her.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:39
|
|
|
El Scotch posted:Maybe things have improved since my elementary and secondary days, but in hindsight I see the lack of both opportunity and education about the trades as one of the biggest failings of the education system, at least in my time. Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner! When I was in HS, they basically said that if you didn't go to Uni, you were going to end up a loser. Why we don't stream people like they do in Germany, I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:40
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:She's had two kids in three years. Maybe we shouldn't hold her maternity against her. She's made it to 8.7% of votes in the house. I'm curious if they're counting votes that occurred during time off on maternity leave, or only ones that she wasn't on leave for. If it's 8.7% of the votes during the time she wasn't on materinty leave I'd be really pissed about it too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:50
|
|
|
SpannerX posted:Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner! When I was in HS, they basically said that if you didn't go to Uni, you were going to end up a loser. Why we don't stream people like they do in Germany, I don't know. Can you imagine how modern day entitled parents would react if you told them that precious little Timmy is too stupid to be anything other than a garbage man, and wasting $100k sending him to law school is out of the question? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:55
|
|
|
She was already planning not to run again, was almost certainly recruited on the assumption there was no chance she'd win, and since we have a Harper Majority she is working in a context where her decision of whether or not to show up for votes has literally no impact on the legislative process. Attacking her for not being a better seat warmer is sort of ridiculous given she has two new born children to take care of. She easily could have sat out the rest of her time in silence and then left for greener pastures. The fact she decided to very visibly break with the NDP leadership suggests this was a principled decision. The only reason to bring up her attendance record is to attack her character, which seems to be pretty much how the Mulcair NDP operates.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:56
|
|
|
SpannerX posted:Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner! When I was in HS, they basically said that if you didn't go to Uni, you were going to end up a loser. Why we don't stream people like they do in Germany, I don't know. I think this has more to do with our generation and our parents generation having a different definition of "loser". In their day anyone with a high school diploma could just work in a factory and make as much as a plumber and Alberta was not nearly as ridiculous as it is now so why work with smelly poops? We see it differently; oh you have a steady job with enough pay to buy a house and support a family? Sign me up!
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:58
|
|
|
Rime posted:Can you imagine how modern day entitled parents would react if you told them that precious little Timmy is too stupid to be anything other than a garbage man, and wasting $100k sending him to law school is out of the question? Yeah, I can understand that, but when I was making more money per year overseas as a deckhand (after taxes) than my father, he wanted to switch jobs with me. And he went to law school. That having been said he did tons of stuff before he went to Uni.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:58
|
|
|
SpannerX posted:Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner! When I was in HS, they basically said that if you didn't go to Uni, you were going to end up a loser. Why we don't stream people like they do in Germany, I don't know. We don't need to stream people, we just need to decide as a society that we want to make dignified and well paying work available. There's literally nothing stopping us from doing that except an undeserved reverence for the private sector. Our society has lots of idle resources and lots of unemployed workers. Literally the only reason we're letting that happen is because nobody can think of a way to profit off of this disconnect. Why, its almost as if our obsession with the profit motive and our total reliance on our worthless private sector is preventing us from solving really obvious and pressing social problems!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:00
|
|
|
Helsing posted:was almost certainly recruited on the assumption there was no chance she'd win If memory serves, she was an acquaintance of the organizer in charge of recruiting candidates for the South Shore and was used to plug a last-minute hole.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:01
|
|
|
Helsing posted:She was already planning not to run again, was almost certainly recruited on the assumption there was no chance she'd win, and since we have a Harper Majority she is working in a context where her decision of whether or not to show up for votes has literally no impact on the legislative process. Attacking her for not being a better seat warmer is sort of ridiculous given she has two new born children to take care of. I agree that it's a principled decision, which is a good thing and I applaud her for. At the same time, I think it's fair to judge her on the merits of her work. The article linked makes it sound like it's more than just not showing up for votes, and that they tried to accommodate her. It is however two separate issues, and the 2nd is definitely being brought up to attack her character and discredit her reasons for leaving the party which isn't a good thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:11
|
|
|
Sorry but I don't understand how the trades are a magical solution to everything. First, more young people skipping out on university is just going to increase the already high youth unemployment rate. That's not to say that doing a 4 year undergrad is a sensible decision for everyone, or that universities haven't been increasing enrolment just to siphon more sweet tuition payments into their coffers, but it's not a solution to anything except decreasing student debt loads. As for the trades, it's my understanding that it is not trivial to find a good apprenticeship today, even while the FIRE sector is taking up an unsustainably large fraction of our economy. What happens when interest rates go up and/or the housing bubble bursts, or the home renovation tax credit goes away? That seems most likely to hit young and inexperienced tradespeople.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:12
|
|
|
blah_blah posted:Well, moving somewhere other than Kitchner-Waterloo is usually seen as a plus. I like KW.  But yeah, almost have my Waterloo Math degree (TM) and I probably need to get out of here.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:18
|
|
|
I guess there's just the simple fact that the employment makeup of a society isn't going to be entirely university jobs. For every lawyer you need an army of farmers, builders, mechanics, garbage men, transit workers and so on to support him. It's weird that we even have skills shortages and at the same time massive unemployment. Obviously there's going to be fluctuations but is it that hard to do the math and get approximate numbers of the jobs needed to run society, and then structure the education system to produce people trained for those various jobs? On top of that view all jobs as important and give them a living wage and some dignity? Everyone rushes into what ever field is currently in demand or paying the most or has the most built up traditional societal respect and by the time they're out of the system we've got a massive glut of what ever they went into and a shortage somewhere else, while at the same time "the market" has determined that training people isn't their problem. Meanwhile that glut of graduates that can't find jobs in Canada don't just re-tool their lives to go into something else, they generally leave to go to another country that can give them employment. But of course only university grads really have this international career mobility, the rest of us are stuck in the domestic market and its lovely prospects.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:23
|
|
|
eXXon posted:Sorry but I don't understand how the trades are a magical solution to everything. First, more young people skipping out on university is just going to increase the already high youth unemployment rate. That's not to say that doing a 4 year undergrad is a sensible decision for everyone, or that universities haven't been increasing enrolment just to siphon more sweet tuition payments into their coffers, but it's not a solution to anything except decreasing student debt loads. Even if the trades are a solution today, in this economy its insane to expect somebody to pick a viable career path four or five years in advance. Somebody who started school in 2003 or 2004 would have had no reasonable way of anticipating what the job market would look like in 2007 or 2008. Someone in 2014 who chooses to get involved in a trade is making just as much of a crapshoot. There simply are no guaranteed individual strategies any more. Again, the problem here is not that our society is broke or that individual workers are choosing the wrong degrees. The problem is that we aren't allowed to fix any problem unless it involves getting a private company involved, and a private company will only do something if there is good reason to expect a profit. Since many things that are clearly necessary like providing affordable housing, transit and education apparently cannot be done profitably, we're basically hosed for as long as we continue to rely on the private sector.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:25
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:I guess there's just the simple fact that the employment makeup of a society isn't going to be entirely university jobs. For every lawyer you need an army of farmers, builders, mechanics, garbage men, transit workers and so on to support him. It's weird that we even have skills shortages and at the same time massive unemployment. Obviously there's going to be fluctuations but is it that hard to do the math and get approximate numbers of the jobs needed to run society, and then structure the education system to produce people trained for those various jobs? On top of that view all jobs as important and give them a living wage and some dignity? Hooo boy you should read this then. http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/08/18/1933252/humans-need-not-apply/ quote:This video from CGP Grey is making the rounds, and for good reason. It argues comprehensively and cogently that the automation of cognitive-intensive work will lead to the obsolescence of human labour and therefore mass unemployment — with clarity and terrific production values. Especially good are minutes 5:00-7:00 about the likely impact of driverless cars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU Baronjutter posted:Everyone rushes into what ever field is currently in demand or paying the most or has the most built up traditional societal respect and by the time they're out of the system we've got a massive glut of what ever they went into and a shortage somewhere else, while at the same time "the market" has determined that training people isn't their problem. Meanwhile that glut of graduates that can't find jobs in Canada don't just re-tool their lives to go into something else, they generally leave to go to another country that can give them employment. But of course only university grads really have this international career mobility, the rest of us are stuck in the domestic market and its lovely prospects. And yet we keep voting for the governments that create this problem.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:27
|
|
|
eXXon posted:As for the trades, it's my understanding that it is not trivial to find a good apprenticeship today, even while the FIRE sector is taking up an unsustainably large fraction of our economy. What happens when interest rates go up and/or the housing bubble bursts, or the home renovation tax credit goes away? That seems most likely to hit young and inexperienced tradespeople. There is a whole hell of a lot more to trades than just building houses. Or the oil patch in Alberta. Even though I'm not looking, since I'm currently working in a great job that I'll probably retire from in about 20 years, people keep asking if I'm looking even though they know my leg is screwed up. But then I do have 15 years experience in offshore construction and supply work. Plus 4 years in HSE.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:41
|
|
|
When UW reps visited my high school in 2007, they sold us the line about how their students were graduating and going straight off to work at RIM for six figures. During my first year at UW, multiple professors told me that English majors got hired at RIM all the time - one actually claimed that RIM managers regularly begged him for the numbers of students who could read and write well. Of course, all of that went to poo poo in my fourth year, and it's likely that none of it had ever been true in the first place. I have no doubt that current high school seniors are being sold the same line with RIM replaced by OpenText, which is the new big poo poo in town that will create all the jobs forever and ever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 02:55
|
|
|
Huge Liability posted:When UW reps visited my high school in 2007, they sold us the line about how their students were graduating and going straight off to work at RIM for six figures. During my first year at UW, multiple professors told me that English majors got hired at RIM all the time - one actually claimed that RIM managers regularly begged him for the numbers of students who could read and write well. Of course, all of that went to poo poo in my fourth year, and it's likely that none of it had ever been true in the first place. Some number of English and humanities majors certainly get hired in tech to work in UX and the like, but they definitely don't get paid like software engineers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 04:12
|
|
|
El Scotch posted:Maybe things have improved since my elementary and secondary days, but in hindsight I see the lack of both opportunity and education about the trades as one of the biggest failings of the education system, at least in my time. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those careers, but this was almost to the exclusion of university as an option.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 05:55
|
|
|
In Ontario it was "University or you will fail forever at life" Because of that whenever I hear from an Albertan "Oh, I never bothered graduating high school" I am always shocked. Sometimes I wish there was a national school board aimed at focusing our economic needs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 07:44
|
|
|
blah_blah posted:Some number of English and humanities majors certainly get hired in tech to work in UX and the like, but they definitely don't get paid like software engineers. Yes and no. In my experience, the in-demand folks seem to be English/humanities majors with tech skills, or some sort of IT/Software Engineering/Computer Science folks with excellent communication skills (and often, at least some formal instruction in UX). Sadly, both are much more rare than they ought to be, because there simply isn't a solid focus on producing well-rounded students right now. STEM fields are really some of the worst offenders; I wrote poo poo for my compsci classes that got an A, yet wouldn't have merited a B in the history class I was taking in the same semester (and, knowing this, my effort was apportioned accordingly). In the absence of requirements to do so, no rational actor (looking solely at things like GPA) would choose to expand their horizons beyond the STEM field. It needs to be addressed by making those courses require a greater degree of literacy, or implementing additional breadth requirements. I don't see a third way, personally.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 07:52
|
|
|
I do think that university students should take a variety of classes. I took business management (don't do this unless your dad owns a company) but with a decent selection of electives, I was able to take politics, history, labour history, etc. It helped that they were my passions, but I really feel they were the more valuable ones for day to day. Critical thinking isn't especially valued in business, and it should be, as it's valued in life. I remember the professor in my business class asking a question, and I suggested as a solution nationalising the company. The professor laughed, and said this isn't communism. I mean, that's not really conducive to learning critical thinking skills. A professor in a humanities class would have answered why it wasn't a solution, rather than dismissing it out of hand. Now in my socialist mind, I can kind of see a reason for it. Especially the lower level of business education, they don't want people to ask questions, they want people who do things the way that they want them to. I imagine at the higher levels critical thinking may come into the fore, as somebody's got to be having new ideas. Lastly, certainly some essays I had to pad out for length, but certainly if it was something interesting, or controversial, I would actually have to take parts out to make sure it wasn't too long. This by the way, is a way better way to write well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 16:51
|
|
|
E: apologies, shouldn't have snatked that out , communist
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 16:54
|
|
|
Ardent Communist posted:Lastly, certainly some essays I had to pad out for length, but certainly if it was something interesting, or controversial, I would actually have to take parts out to make sure it wasn't too long. This by the way, is a way better way to write well. Which, writing too much and then cutting back or editing in general? (If only students understood that editing was part of writing...)
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 17:01
|
|
|
Our BComm program (I now work at a university!) has a lot of liberal arts elective requirements, like philosophy and psych and ecology. The only students who complain are galactic anuses anyways, so gently caress 'em. Still not as many in the MBA program, but that's not surprising for a Masters level degree of any kind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
Conservatives refuse to take action and reign in Canadian mining industry. I highly suggest reading this article, despite being from Vice. Most people aren't aware of how utterly poo poo our mining industry is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 17:44
|
|
|
Rime posted:Conservatives refuse to take action and reign in Canadian mining industry. The schadenfreude I feel for the mining industry due to current commodity prices is second only to whenever a Canadian has to declare bankruptcy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
It seems like mining in Canada, and the ones headquartered in BC in particular, only come in two kinds: either an investment scam that has zero intention of actually producing (see: every company that has owned Caroline since the 1980's), or a shitshow that's busy committing war crimes in the third world. Very few operators that manage to walk between those lines unfortunately. Anecdotally and on a different note, I've been looking around to get into the welding trade next year and talking to a bunch of people to see how things are right now. Word on the street from people I've talked to is that the TFW program has been flooding the market the past few years like nobodies business, especially in the iron trades, and it just hasn't bubbled into public view like the fast food issue did. The unions aren't happy, obviously, since it's effectively preemptive scabbing. Sounds like there's work in motion to make it a very big deal if the legislation hasn't changed before the election however. quote:I read somewhere that David dodge thinks salaries in Canada are too high and the TFW program is a solution.  There's no way a government official would say that, surely.
Rime fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Aug 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 18:06
|
|
|
One of the justifications for the TFW program is that there is that the labour market is too inefficient in Canada. I read somewhere that David dodge thinks salaries in Canada are too high and the TFW program is a solution.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 18:13
|
|
|
My girlfriend's brother graduated from high school, got a few jobs in SW Ontario for welding then went out to Saskatchewan for eight months to weld, made a bunch of money, got his tickets, came back and got hired pretty much instantly. If you're willing to go where companies are setting up resource extraction infrastructure for a little while I'd say welding could work out pretty well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 18:51
|
|
|
Just want to shout out to this page for being in the Ottawa/Kingston/Belleville area. Rep the 613, yo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 19:11
|
|
|
Huge Liability posted:When UW reps visited my high school in 2007, they sold us the line about how their students were graduating and going straight off to work at RIM for six figures. During my first year at UW, multiple professors told me that English majors got hired at RIM all the time - one actually claimed that RIM managers regularly begged him for the numbers of students who could read and write well. Of course, all of that went to poo poo in my fourth year, and it's likely that none of it had ever been true in the first place.  National Post poo poo Status Update:  gently caress yooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuu 
Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Aug 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
When a politician says wages are too high he's implying that OTHER people's wages are too high. Voters are stupid and always consider themselves middle class. Yeah maybe if wages for everyone else were lower my company could hire more people and give ME a raise? Maybe "The economy" would just do better and it would trickle down to me. Maybe they're an actual small business owner and wish they could pay their minimum wage staff less. There's always a reason they'll agree wages are too high, but only other people's wages. That's the whole hope of austerity, tax cuts, corporate subsidies, TFWs. Take something away or stop giving something to someone else in the hopes that me or my class/group will gain from it. People are stupid enough to think they are in the group that will gain from these policies. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Aug 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 01:56 |
|
|
Based on a poll from a couple years ago the number of Canadians who identify as middle class dropped from roughly 70% around 2000 to around 50% by 2011. People identifying as working class or poor rose accordingly. It wouldn't surprise me if those who identify as middle class are more likely to vote, but there's some evidence suggesting that the foundations of our 'middle class' society are eroding. Keep in mind that just because politicians always talk about the middle class doesn't mean that is what voters want to hear. Politicians aren't telepathic: even when they hire consultants and conduct polls they regularly make blunders or ignore adopting positions that might be advantageous to them. Tim Hudak thought that promising to fire 100,000 people would help him get elected. Prominent Liberals thought Michael Ignatieff would be a great candidate for Prime Minister. The BC NDP thought the last election would be a cake walk. Just because politicians can't shut up about the middle class doesn't necessarily mean thats what all voters want to hear.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 20:35
|
|