|
zeroprime posted:Well, there's the US Constitution vs the CSA Constitution. Before the war, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, which required runaway slaves to be returned to their masters even in free states, and the Dred Scott decision, which said negroes (free or slave) had no rights a white man was bound to respect. There were no significant Southern objections to these increases in federal power. During the war, Jefferson Davis denounced states' rights as being destructive to the Confederate cause. There were probably a lot of people in the South who did believe in states' rights, but when push came to shove the preservation of slavery was always a higher priority.
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 07:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 08:10 |
|
|
Shalebridge Cradle posted:Yeah these are the actual confederate flags. Well, that explains why people use the one they do, the graphic design on those other flags is bad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 13:05
|
|
|
Jurgan posted:Before the war, there was the Fugitive Slave Act, which required runaway slaves to be returned to their masters even in free states, and the Dred Scott decision, which said negroes (free or slave) had no rights a white man was bound to respect. There were no significant Southern objections to these increases in federal power. During the war, Jefferson Davis denounced states' rights as being destructive to the Confederate cause. There were probably a lot of people in the South who did believe in states' rights, but when push came to shove the preservation of slavery was always a higher priority. Several confederate governors actively fought against the draft and impressment of their state' resources. If nothing else they remained consistent in their beliefs but it's a silly way to conduct a war.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 13:19
|
|
|
Also the south seemed to suddenly not be so interested in popular sovereignty after Kansas voted to be a free state and demanded other ways for slavery to expand into western territories. Also also, aside from any specific state secession letter, Cornerstone Speech y'all quote:Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 13:31
|
|
|
VideoTapir posted:Wasn't there a handy checklist of not-states-rights evidence? Googling individual state secession speeches will yield slavery each and every time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 13:54
|
|
|
I have ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. Many of my family members are proud of the "war heroes" in our history. I'm not. So I get to hear the "heritage not hate" poo poo from not only facebook, but family 
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 14:40
|
|
|
PUGGERNAUT posted:I have ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. Many of my family members are proud of the "war heroes" in our history. I'm not.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 15:37
|
|
|
Ghost of Reagan Past posted:They're proud of traitors? That's interesting... That's what baffles me!! The people who hate on anyone who flies a Mexican flag in the US will proudly fly a confederate flag.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 15:44
|
|
|
Knight posted:South Carolina referenced slavery and the North's anti-slavery sentiment at least 6 times in its declaration of secession. But I'm sure that was just auto-correct. if only 
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 15:48
|
|
|
drat you autocorrect
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 15:59
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:drat you autocorrect I think they called it secretaries back then.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 16:29
|
|
|
PUGGERNAUT posted:I have ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. Many of my family members are proud of the "war heroes" in our history. I'm not. I think there's only one necessary response to that 
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
Verisimilidude posted:There's a saying I like that I'll probably butcher, but it goes sorta like this: People who have not studied history think the civil war was about slavery. People who have studied a little history think the civil war was about states rights. People who have studied a lot of history know the civil war was about slavery.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 20:27
|
|
|
Some Men's Rights stuff: I was on another forum and someone argued that women who report false rape should be punished just as much as those who rape. I made the argument that doing so would discourage women who've been assaulted from coming forward because then men would argue that they're lying and then the woman themselves could have the justice system turn against them. The response was over FIVE THOUSAND people a year could be penalized harshly, to which I said 1 out of 6 women according to the National Institute of Violence face sexual assault. He then argued that it was bullshit, and that there's "empirical evidence" that men are raped as often as women without linking a study. Is there any way to convert a MensRights person? I think they're so far gone in terms of awful groups. I've convinced conservatives of decent talking points, but MRAs are on the level of conspiracy theorists.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 21:23
|
|
|
Well, the same thing about the justice system being turned against victims and making victims reluctant to come forward would apply to ALL THOSE men who are raped. I guess he's fine with that? He's the one making it about punishing victims, male or female.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 21:29
|
|
|
seiferguy posted:Some Men's Rights stuff: What does relative rates of rape or sexual assault between men and women have to do with the prior policy argument? e:f;b
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 21:31
|
|
|
No your friend is right. Anytime someone reports a crime and the suspect is acquitted, the complainant should get a conviction with the same sentence the original crime gets to discourage false reporting. If you call to report a break-in, know that if the police don't believe you, you're going to jail, so I hope you've got bail handy! Can't see any potential problems with that! VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Aug 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 21:56
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:No your friend is right. Anytime someone reports a crime and the suspect is acquitted, the complainant should get a conviction with the same sentence the original crime gets to discourage false reporting. If you call to report a break-in, know that if the police don't believe you, you're going to jail, so I hope you've got bail handy! Is that what he was saying, or was it a more reasonable 'people who fabricate false allegations should suffer a penalty" because one of the two positions I could defend.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 23:00
|
|
|
LeJackal posted:Is that what he was saying, or was it a more reasonable 'people who fabricate false allegations should suffer a penalty" because one of the two positions I could defend. seiferguy posted:
Gosh, I wonder what they meant...
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
On the one hand, falsely reporting a rape is pretty vile, and deserves to be punished. On the other hand, making it something easily charged and prosecuted provides a disincentive for reporting rape. In addition, a system that harshly punishes false reporting also provides a perverse incentive against recanting if you've falsely reported someone as a rapist. Rape overall is just a really hard crime to deal with. I mean, consent could be argued as a defense in any number of crimes, but rape is the only one where it really makes sense (not many people are going to believe "the homeowner gave me permission to break down his door and take his plasma television"). And the typical investigation of a rape is much more traumatizing than the investigation of, say, a burglary. The system we have now is poo poo, but it's a lovely option out of a lot of lovely options. Ham Equity fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Aug 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 23:16
|
|
|
LeJackal posted:Is that what he was saying, or was it a more reasonable 'people who fabricate false allegations should suffer a penalty" because one of the two positions I could defend. Well knowingly filing a false police report already has penalties associated with it so...
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 23:23
|
|
|
Thanatosian posted:On the one hand, falsely reporting a rape is pretty vile, and deserves to be punished. On the other hand it doesn't actually occur often enough to make a new law about it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 23:32
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:On the other hand it doesn't actually occur often enough to make a new law about it. Yeah, which is another reason I'm inclined to go with what we've got. I wish people got as up in arms over the sorts of financial malfeasance and tax evasion that happens all the loving time as they do over things like voter fraud and false reports of rape.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 23:37
|
|
|
seiferguy posted:Is there any way to convert a MensRights person? I think they're so far gone in terms of awful groups. I've convinced conservatives of decent talking points, but MRAs are on the level of conspiracy theorists. It depends on if they're interested in actually discussing the problem or if they're interested in constructing an elaborate counter-reality to justify why women are such bitches.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2014 23:44
|
|
|
There's a lot of overlap between feminism and MRA's stated goals (more support for fathers/paternity leave, respect for male rape victims, dismantling traditional gender roles such as the stoic emotionless man). I've met guys who work with gender issues, but they always call themselves feminists, not MRAs. In my experience most self-described MRAs don't seem to want to make things better for men, they want to make things worse for women.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 00:02
|
|
|
seiferguy posted:Some Men's Rights stuff: 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 02:33
|
|
|
I made two comments, one that shows 9/10 rape victims are women (https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims) and that male victims of rape would be too scared to come forward and he went on an insane rant:quote:Now do you get it? The most powerful feminist researchers in the US don't just ignore male rape victims, they actively seek to harm them. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 06:05
|
|
|
Bitching about "primary aggressor" laws is literally getting mad over a woman hitting back during a domestic violence dispute.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 06:19
|
|
|
That is some serious twisting of data in that linked image, goddamn. It almost sounds plausible if you don't actually know anything about statistics.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 07:21
|
|
|
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that feminist groups have been pushing for that definition of rape to be changed to include non-female victims? Or has it already been changed?
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 08:49
|
|
|
"Al Dente" here is that Kelly cartoon about talking about race made flesh. I don't actually know any of these people, a friend liked the OP but they appear to be all middle aged white people from western Oregon.       
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 13:30
|
|
|
Soviet Commubot posted:"Al Dente" here is that Kelly cartoon about talking about race made flesh. I don't actually know any of these people, a friend liked the OP but they appear to be all middle aged white people from western Oregon. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 13:47
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:Very black (albeit employed professionals). You see you need to understand that blackness is a culture, not a skin colour.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 14:30
|
|
|
What better way to cap off a fruitless day filled with frustration? THIS WEEK IN LL101!  "Its a joke. Can't you tell she's just joking about genocide?"  These strawman arguments are getting more and more insufferable.  So your plan is to be an rear end in a top hat and then get sued because you exist as a legal entity?  Oh, sorry, we mixed up a picture of Hitler, who created the single biggest reduction in gun regulations of the 20th century, with Ronald Reagan.  "Yes, we're really the fatass slobs you think we are". This is something they think they should be proud of.  It sure is fascinating that Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Turkey, Syria and Lybia are all not a part of the Middle East.  "She was drunk once. That makes Perry's naked partisan powergrab okay."  "Because its completely illegal to deny people service based on their sexuality".  Oh great. They're sticking with the one image more annoying that that stupid baby.  "And make SURE its an unarmed black male".  stdh.txt, though I do love that the insurance company acting greedy is, of course, the programs fault.  ...Nixon?  Oh, wonderful. Combining a retarded idea AND a retarded strawman.  "Now watch this drive"  If being an egotistical rear end in a top hat makes you a sociopath, what the hell does that make the people behind LL101?  I've never seen a single more whiny or nitpicky group of people go into technical definitons than gun nuts about what is and is not an assault weapon. TO give us a live demonstration, LeJackal will be here, despite nobody ever asking him to be.  "NOW WATCH THIS loving DRIVE!"  What the gently caress does this even mean? This is pure word salad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 16:04
|
|
|
Fulchrum posted:What the gently caress does this even mean? This is pure word salad. It's all word salad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 16:15
|
|
|
What the gently caress?
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 16:17
|
|
|
#1: The only kind of black they will tolerate having in their homes.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 16:21
|
|
|
Neruz posted:It's all word salad. I think it's half "drat lie-berals posting on their Twitters will never get anything done" and half "Obummer stop being such a pussy and let's go kill us some Ay-rabs". Ignoring the fact that a) the ALS ice bucket challenge has just recently become absolutely huge because of social media's influence and b) it's not exactly a matter of sending some SEALs over and shooting anyone in an ISIS t-shirt.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 16:27
|
|
|
Fulchrum posted:
Also what is it with conservatives and harping on black coffee? Does it make you more manly? I TOUGH MAN I DRINK BLACK COFFEE. Ghost of Reagan Past fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Aug 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 16:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 08:10 |
|
|
Fulchrum posted:
e: Looks like that was a misinterpretation from some news sources and he said it should be a matter of choice but that termination is still the moral thing to do, but from his spluttering half retraction I can't tell whether he meant from a philosophical point of view or whether he supports eugenics. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Aug 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2014 16:36
|
|