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Shbobdb posted:KPN Potassium from seawater is no great challenge, and the only reason it isn't done now is because more concentrated mineral sources are still cheaper.
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Aug 22, 2014 04:11
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420DD Butts posted:The bright side is if pro-fracking groups keep running poo poo like this it will ensure that fracking never catches on in the Front Range. Depending on your definition of the front range (how far east you count), they've been doing it since the 1950s. When you get to area's like Boulder, there tends to not be as much because of proximity to the mountains causing most of the reservoirs to outcrop or be fractured enough that they leaked the oil and gas to the surface a long time ago. I really don't understand why the oil industry has to play comical villain and make commercials like those, when there are reasonable arguments and mitigation efforts that can be made with very little cost.
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Aug 22, 2014 04:16
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Oil! posted:Depending on your definition of the front range (how far east you count), they've been doing it since the 1950s. When you get to area's like Boulder, there tends to not be as much because of proximity to the mountains causing most of the reservoirs to outcrop or be fractured enough that they leaked the oil and gas to the surface a long time ago. I really don't understand why the oil industry has to play comical villain and make commercials like those, when there are reasonable arguments and mitigation efforts that can be made with very little cost. I was more thinking Denver on up to Fort Collins. Not really thinking about Weld County specifically, considering that place is a poo poo hole. Aves Maria! fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 04:19
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420DD Butts posted:I was more thinking Denver on up to Fort Collins. Not really thinking about Weld County specifically, considering that place is a poo poo hole. The normal natural gas industry is hardly less water/air polluting.
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Aug 22, 2014 04:51
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Nintendo Kid posted:The normal natural gas industry is hardly less water/air polluting. I actually had a conversation with a scientist who does the air quality standards for NOAA somewhat recently, and his researched opinion was that due to the benzene and toluene (BTX mixtures) used in hydraulic fracking that it was particularly dangerous when it occurs near human habitation. Carcinogens in the air and all of that. He did also rant about a study he did which showed that the average spillage in oil fields was around 7% just from pulling it out of the ground so there's that, I guess. That said, I'd rather no oil/gas operations occur anywhere near cities (or really anywhere that is at all ecologically sensitive). Or anywhere at all for that matter. And just to add something of a similar bent: This is a study that I assume was probably done at one of the air quality stations in the same area. Not a fan of natural gas at all, me. Aves Maria! fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 04:58
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The thing is that the industry also uses basically the same fluids to inject into "normal" natural gas deposits and practices the same sloppy things that end up with it spilling all over the place, and lots of natural gas pockets are naturally linked to the water table. The main thing fracking has done is to end up with a lot more natural gas stuff beign done around wealthier and more populated areas, meaning increased notice is taken of pollution as a result (especially since poorer and more rural areas often have populations unable to make themselves heard).
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Aug 22, 2014 05:08
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This is entirely possible, the atmospheric scientist that I talked to just seemed to be particularly hung up on fracking when we spoke. I wish I would have had more time to talk to him, he apparently had done quite a bit of research into how often and in to what degree spillages occured in the oil/gas industry. Essentially, the thesis I came away with is that none of the fossil fuel industries are actually "clean" or "safe" especially in the context of human habitation. I do see your point about wealthier areas, though, as a lot of the push back on fracking here has been in places like Fort Collins, Longmont, and Boulder which aren't exactly poor or rural communities.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:14
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Sir Tonk posted:Since Ferguson thread seems to be busy arguing about the merits of communism, these are going here. They're very very good and worth hearing if you don't normally catch Ashbrook. On Point is easily my favorite NPR program, and one of the reasons my wife and I scrape cash together to donate to WBUR; Tom Ashbrook is a really, really good host. Scary smart, too. Also, it's amazing how, when you listen to him for a long while, you learn to tell the difference between how Tom cuts off a caller because of time or how he cuts them off because they're crazy and/or stupid. It's a very, very subtle difference, is what makes it so interesting.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:21
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about how every citizen is a potential arms dealer and that we should be glad they haven't just killed us all. Happens again on that second one, although Ashbrook handles it quite well. Dude is very disarming, like Diane Rehm.
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420DD Butts posted:I actually had a conversation with a scientist who does the air quality standards for NOAA somewhat recently, and his researched opinion was that due to the benzene and toluene (BTX mixtures) used in hydraulic fracking that it was particularly dangerous when it occurs near human habitation. Carcinogens in the air and all of that. He did also rant about a study he did which showed that the average spillage in oil fields was around 7% just from pulling it out of the ground so there's that, I guess. That said, I'd rather no oil/gas operations occur anywhere near cities (or really anywhere that is at all ecologically sensitive). As far as BTEX goes, Benzene and Toluene are commonly used as surfactants in slickwater completions (in the range of 100s to 1000s of gallons), but the amount used is extremely minor compared to produced volumes (which are all <1%, but add up when you consider total production). The air concentrations are required to be monitored on all wells because of their carcinogenic properties and are highly susceptible to leaking equipment near the wellhead. The high emissions/losses study from the link has actually been addressed by industry several years prior, but only codified into law around the time it was released. Venting/flaring was/is (depending on area) the standard way to dispose of gas during post-frac flowback, but equipment exists and is now required to be used in Colorado to collect that gas and send it down the pipeline instead of burning it at the wellhead. A lot of companies refused to do it (Jonah field is the perfect example) because it costs a lot of money up front and if you are drilling a ton of vertical wells and bringing them on quickly, makes it difficult to move the equipment from well to well. In the long run, it ends up making the operator money because they get to sell that amount of gas they would have been flaring, but that is several wells down the line and some people don't like to think that far. Fun fact for global warming though: a lot of oil/gas fields produce carbon dioxide naturally in the gas stream and it has to be removed (anywhere from 0.1-20% of the gas stream). Because the cost to compress that gas is so high, it is mainly vented into the atmosphere and we instead drill into high CO2 gas fields that can deliver it to oil fields without compression for enhanced oil recovery.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:27
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Fun fact about toluene: when inhaled in sufficient quantities it has a similar effect to being high on opiates. I spilled about two liters of it mixed with water on myself once. Couldn't walk straight for half an hour, solvents are fun!
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Aug 22, 2014 12:00
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Obama is golfing again, which is rally starting to piss me off. Not because I think it keeps him from doing his job. But the thing is, everything he does, he is going to be endlessly criticized by the right wing and by the media. And it is so clear in every non action he takes he is absolutely paralyzed by this fear, bending over backwards to avoid offending someone on policy after policy, refusing to say anything more than milquetoast on race, etc. But golf, of all things, is the one thing where he doesn't give a poo poo about appeasing critics. Out of every issue in the nation where he shouldn't be apologetic and chickens out every time, he chose this as his last stand. An elitist, environmentally awful, frustrating as gently caress sport for rich assholes that most of his base will never play.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:16
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Golf's a great excuse to hang out with other important people to discuss important topics. Though the right wing knee jerk machine doesn't care and probably are just pissed that there's a black man on the course.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:19
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DemeaninDemon posted:Golf's a great excuse to hang out with other important people to discuss important topics. Though the right wing knee jerk machine doesn't care and probably are just pissed that there's a black man on the course. And hell, you know in the same situation most people here would just be downing liquor bottles.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:36
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The 'most NPR' show in recent memory was when Brian Lehrer did a segment on 'ambivalence' and people called in with things they were ambivalent about (and predictably a couple callers just called in to complain/didn't know what ambivalent meant)
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Aug 22, 2014 13:40
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greatn posted:Obama is golfing again, which is rally starting to piss me off. "I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you. Now watch this drive." -Barack Obama, 2014
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Aug 22, 2014 13:47
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Not satisfied with fleecing the rubes, Sarah Palin thinks she deserves a cut of whatever Tina Fey made after her first impression of the half-term, half-wit governor. quote:In a new edition of the book Live From New York by Tom Shales and James Miller, Palin says Fey might owe her one. Also, the only reason she went on SNL was because she hated what Fey did! And SNL is stupid anyway! quote:"I think SNL is egotistical if they believe that it was truly an effect on maybe the public debate about who should lead the country in the next four years," Palin told the book's authors, adding that she appeared on the show to counter the implications of Fey's impression.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:48
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So which is it? Is SNL a show with no social impact that no one cares about or was it a successful operation that was so influential you were forced to appear on it to counter what they were doing? She's literally contradicting herself. The conservative tendency to insult certain mass media in order to pretend there's some kind of silent majority is so strong that it interferes with her making the point she set out to make in the first place. It's stunning. Her instinct that she should have gotten paid off to be made fun of as a public figure is also hilarious. ErIog fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 13:52
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Sarah Palin posted:I know that they portrayed me as an idiot, and I hated that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE-OCDexYrU
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Aug 22, 2014 13:55
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ErIog posted:So which is it? Is SNL a show with no social impact that no one cares about or was it a successful operation that was so influential you were forced to appear on it to counter what they were doing? She's literally contradicting herself. The conservative tendency to insult certain mass media in order to pretend there's some kind of silent majority is so strong that it interferes with her making the point she set out to make in the first place. It's stunning. NEVAR FORGET 
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Aug 22, 2014 14:02
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greatn posted:An elitist, environmentally awful, frustrating as gently caress sport for rich assholes that most of his base will never play.  That is some serious assumption about his base. If Obama was out playing polo every weekend I might understand what you mean, but golf? Really? What is acceptable downtime for you? Bowling? Darts? Ping Pong?
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Aug 22, 2014 14:12
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Despatcher posted:
Like I said earlier, bourbon.
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Aug 22, 2014 14:15
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He plays basketball all the time too but of course the cartoonists go with golf.
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Aug 22, 2014 14:17
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Here's (Facebook link) Paul Ryan pouring ice water over Mitt Romney's head. "Ha ha. That is cold!"
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Aug 22, 2014 14:23
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Joementum posted:Here's (Facebook link) Paul Ryan pouring ice water over Mitt Romney's head.
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Aug 22, 2014 14:26
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ufarn posted:Of course he's in a suit. 
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Aug 22, 2014 14:29
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Joementum posted:Here's (Facebook link) Paul Ryan pouring ice water over Mitt Romney's head. Dear Mitt, please run again. Love, Sub Par
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Aug 22, 2014 14:34
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Golf sure is an elite sport what with public golf courses that you can rent clubs at everywhere. What is this, 1920?
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Aug 22, 2014 14:34
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Joementum posted:Here's (Facebook link) Paul Ryan pouring ice water over Mitt Romney's head. I thought you'd go with "Water. Wet. Cold."
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Aug 22, 2014 14:34
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Wonder why he nominated Jason Sudeikis.
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Aug 22, 2014 14:35
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Mons Hubris posted:Wonder why he nominated Jason Sudeikis. Jason played Mitt on SNL.
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Aug 22, 2014 14:36
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 Holy poo poo. While watching the first part, I honestly did not expect the second bit to mirror it almost word for word.
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Aug 22, 2014 14:42
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richardfun posted:
And that's remarkably lucid for her. Either one.
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Aug 22, 2014 14:56
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So the Montana Democrats nominated a wobbly to replace a guy that was found to be plaigerizing?  https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=amanda+curtis&tbm=nws A bold move to be sure, but republicans are going to paint her as the next Robespierre. Republicans are already throwing a loving shitfit.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:31
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420DD Butts posted:This is entirely possible, the atmospheric scientist that I talked to just seemed to be particularly hung up on fracking when we spoke. I wish I would have had more time to talk to him, he apparently had done quite a bit of research into how often and in to what degree spillages occured in the oil/gas industry. Essentially, the thesis I came away with is that none of the fossil fuel industries are actually "clean" or "safe" especially in the context of human habitation. I do see your point about wealthier areas, though, as a lot of the push back on fracking here has been in places like Fort Collins, Longmont, and Boulder which aren't exactly poor or rural communities. Per my boss, paraphrased: "When we have a leak in our gas pipeline, it's not as bad. It'll just float up and disperse into the air. But we need a 5 minute response time on leaks in the oil pipe, because that just leaks to the ground, then people come out and take pictures, and then we get bad PR." And thus, my group doesn't really worry about leak detection on the gas side as much as the oil side.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:37
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What size pipes do you manage? Promise I don't sell anything other than NDT equipment I write software for
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Aug 22, 2014 15:51
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Amergin posted:Per my boss, paraphrased: You don't have a boss.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:57
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DemeaninDemon posted:Golf's a great excuse to hang out with other important people to discuss important topics. Though the right wing knee jerk machine doesn't care and probably are just pissed that there's a black man on the course. I'm kinda of curious why they don't show him playing basketball. Are they worried he'll look too athletic? Is it because he looks like a nerd in his golf duds?
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Aug 22, 2014 16:07
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Sir Tonk posted:I'm kinda of curious why they don't show him playing basketball. Are they worried he'll look too athletic? Is it because he looks like a nerd in his golf duds? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IjDqm-JHrA Anyway, he and Michelle are being all elitist right now and "hiking".
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Aug 22, 2014 16:10
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The "out of touch elite wasting hours while Rome burns" is more what they're going for. Everyone already knows he's black.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:10
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Plus if they showed him playing basketball they wouldn't be able to keep from going full on blatant 1920's racist.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:11
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