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Shocking isn't it. You want a real depressing one, read down that list and see how many of those people are dead for 'failure to comply' with orders they could not comply with on account of being beaten to death and/or otherwise incapacitated violently prior to being given the command.
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Aug 22, 2014 06:20
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Just remember: all of these officers are really good guys. They have beers with their friends on the weekends. We shouldn't blame them, we should blame the system that Oh gently caress it I can't even say it, I'm literally nauseous reading just a tenth of that page. Fellow officers knew about this stuff and let it happen and refused to act on internal knowledge because it would break omerta.
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Aug 22, 2014 06:44
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This event from my state is linked in that great big list: http://youtu.be/DkhrWZ6twjw An off-duty cop at a bar in Columbia, SC tried to arrest a woman because she refused to go home with him.
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Aug 22, 2014 06:52
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The reality we all live with is that cops are of course going to have few qualms about violating laws that don't really apply to them. For example the typical cop has no hesitation about speeding without lights on, swerving in lanes, rolling through stop signs, or committing any of the numerous traffic violations that are the bread and butter of police work in the United States. And that has always been something that the typical American has accepted as the way things are, since it's typically a minor issue and complaining about it simply results in police retaliation. But with the advent of police militarization, the acceptable scope of police law-breaking has expanded greatly. They increasingly see themselves as being outside civil society, and separate from other civilians. And these expectations are causing all sorts of issues. Cops are placing themselves in increasingly legally precarious situations, with the expectation that their legal immunities and TBL relationships with prosecutors will keep them out of trouble. And the worst part is that they're probably correct in thinking that.
Kaal fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 06:57
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zeal posted:This event from my state is linked in that great big list: http://youtu.be/DkhrWZ6twjw I watched that whole video and was almost shocked that the stack of bystanders didn't find a way to free or protect her. But then I realized that nobody wanted to die that night.
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Aug 22, 2014 06:57
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zeal posted:This event from my state is linked in that great big list: http://youtu.be/DkhrWZ6twjw I was trying to decide if I should post that or not, but I didn't want to just come in and post a bunch of links. That, however, is some really crazy poo poo. I don't know what I would do if I were there, I guess I would wait for the real cops to arrive, but I'd want to kick his rear end. Look at her, she is terrified. Pohl fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 06:59
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I honestly thought bystanders handled it pretty well short of physically intervening. Dude was a cop after all, who knows what further enormities he was capable of? This is also one of the few stories in that list with something like a silver lining, the officer involved was actually fired over the incident though he certainly served no jail time.
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Aug 22, 2014 07:00
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Pohl posted:I was trying to decide if I should post that or not, but I didn't want to just come in and post a bunch of links. That, however, is some really crazy poo poo. I don't know what I would do if I were there, I guess I would wait for the real cops to arrive, but I'd want to kick his rear end. Look at her, she is terrified. What? The only thing next to his beer was his phone. As the man filming clearly says.
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Aug 22, 2014 07:02
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Cuntpunch posted:What? The only thing next to his beer was his phone. As the man filming clearly says. I thought he said it was his gun? poo poo, a phone is nowhere near as fun as a gun. I must have completely misheard that. Edit: ah, the accent got me. I watched that part over and over and I still have to remind myself that he said "phone", even though I can clearly see a phone sitting there. Pohl fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 07:03
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From the Youtube's description:quote:COLUMBIA, SC -- A drunken sheriff's deputy was recorded during a strange and inappropriate altercation when he tried to arrest a female soldier at a Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant in Columbia. So he had his gun with him inside the restaurant during his 'arrest' of her. Naturally, his boss took his side despite all the obvious evidence that the deputy was a total dick, but finally saw reason and made him suffer the ultimate price, leave without pay. I'm certain if the patrons of the bar got confrontational with him, they would have been subject to many bullets to the everything.
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Aug 22, 2014 07:09
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Fruity Rudy posted:The common theme I noticed was how often, according to official reports, all these police victims are supposedly taking the "Can I Grab the Cop's Gun" Challenge. If you're to believe American cops, there's an epidemic of people who decided to not only fight the police with their bare hands, but then further tried to gamble their life unsuccessfully and reach for the police firearm to try and become a cop killer. Everyone's taking the challenge, including apparently tiny teenage girls. This is because it's a plausible excuse for killing literally anyone as long as they have hands.
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Aug 22, 2014 07:18
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Kaal posted:The reality we all live with is that cops are of course going to have few qualms about violating laws that don't really apply to them. For example the typical cop has no hesitation about speeding without lights on, swerving in lanes, rolling through stop signs, or committing any of the numerous traffic violations that are the bread and butter of police work in the United States. And that has always been something that the typical American has accepted as the way things are, since it's typically a minor issue and complaining about it simply results in police retaliation. But with the advent of police militarization, the acceptable scope of police law-breaking has expanded greatly. They increasingly see themselves as being outside civil society, and separate from other civilians. And these expectations are causing all sorts of issues. Cops are placing themselves in increasingly legally precarious situations, with the expectation that their legal immunities and TBL relationships with prosecutors will keep them out of trouble. And the worst part is that they're probably correct in thinking that. I think that cops have always been able to get away with murder but now it's creeping into affecting middle class and white people. Additionally with the ubiquitousness of camera phones and the internet it's a lot harder to lie about this sort of thing. A lot of those stories would have been reported very differently if at all thirty years ago because the truth that PDs are not trustworthy is a recent concept to a great many people (the people that until recently didn't face their wrath). Just fixing police militarization really doesn't help the problem since the police don't need expensive military gear to oppress people if they are allowed to kill innocent people the old fashioned way with clubs or pistols, the justice system covers for them, and then claims that everything was "civilized" so don't complain. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 11:41
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Cuntpunch posted:Just remember: all of these officers are really good guys. They have beers with their friends on the weekends. We shouldn't blame them, we should blame the system that You don't even need an excuse that long. "Being a cop is hard and you don't get it." is all you need. If things get really bad just get a cop to say "I know the cops I work alongside are good guys, no extra oversight is needed." Regarding the latter it must be weird for cops to hear about the Pope, he claims to be God's representative on Earth and yet is only infallible in very specific instances whereas they're infallible at all times. ReV VAdAUL fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 11:45
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Cuntpunch posted:Just remember: all of these officers are really good guys. They have beers with their friends on the weekends. We shouldn't blame them, we should blame the system that I really doubt that cops beating people to death are good guys. But if we want to get rid of cops like that, yes, we need to reform the system.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:29
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Radish posted:I think that cops have always been able to get away with murder but now it's creeping into affecting middle class and white people. In a world where a presidential candidate denounces 47% of the population as mooching bums and GOP crowds cheer people dying of no healthcare coverage I do wonder how much this will matter. The "squeezed middle" may well be seeing more of police oppression because those on top care much less if they do.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:37
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zeal posted:I honestly thought bystanders handled it pretty well short of physically intervening. Dude was a cop after all, who knows what further enormities he was capable of? This is also one of the few stories in that list with something like a silver lining, the officer involved was actually fired over the incident though he certainly served no jail time. It appears he has been charged with assault, although that's a pretty light charge considering. http://www.wistv.com/story/23666479/off-duty-sc-deputy-charged-with-assault SC Code § 16-3-910 (2012) posted:Whoever shall unlawfully seize, confine, inveigle, decoy, kidnap, abduct or carry away any other person by any means whatsoever without authority of law, except when a minor is seized or taken by his parent, is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be imprisoned for a period not to exceed thirty years unless sentenced for murder as provided in Section 16-3-20.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:43
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KernelSlanders posted:It appears he has been charged with assault, although that's a pretty light charge considering. Youtube description says he was also charged with battery - you know how prosecutors are, charge everything. Also you all shouldn't get too worked up with the "placed on paid leave" thing. As a government employee to be fired for cause you're protected against takings by due process. This means that they cannot withhold pay without some sort of proceeding, and any quick proceeding would likely interfere with any criminal case. As a result any punishments aren't particularly likely until an indictment. At least the suspension gets them off the street in the meantime...
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Aug 22, 2014 14:02
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ReV VAdAUL posted:In a world where a presidential candidate denounces 47% of the population as mooching bums and GOP crowds cheer people dying of no healthcare coverage I do wonder how much this will matter. The "squeezed middle" may well be seeing more of police oppression because those on top care much less if they do. My white, southern relatives have really started complaining about cop abuses lately now that they have started to notice them. The problem is that neither party thinks there is a problem with how the system brutalizes citizens and then gives it the stamp of approval so I don't think it will be an issue that you can really vote against for a while. I don't have a problem with paid leave since until the person is proven guilty, he or she shouldn't be unable to support him or herself just for being a suspect. The problem is that police are typically are not punished adequately for terrible crimes so the optics are they get rewarded with a vacation for murder. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 14:28
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Radish posted:My white, southern relatives have really started complaining about cop abuses lately now that they have started to notice them. The problem is that neither party thinks there is a problem with how the system brutalizes citizens and then gives it the stamp of approval so I don't think it will be an issue that you can really vote against for a while. Yeah, there really isn't an outlet for this discontent, which might we be why the elite are content with people seeing it. Still, local elections could be used to push for reform, whether it is for local law enforcement officials or city councillors. It is risky though, Arpaio started off as a reform candidate for instance. There are a couple of worrying possible outcomes to growing discontent too. One is business elites start to openly stand with the police and criticising the police openly starts to threaten your job prospects. Another is private police forces gaining popular support as a solution.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:09
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Yeah, there really isn't an outlet for this discontent, which might we be why the elite are content with people seeing it. Still, local elections could be used to push for reform, whether it is for local law enforcement officials or city councillors. It is risky though, Arpaio started off as a reform candidate for instance. It's just as likely that businesses will support token reforms because it means they don't have to clean up the mess after some people burn down their stores.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:13
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Radish posted:I don't have a problem with paid leave since until the person is proven guilty, he or she shouldn't be unable to support him or herself just for being a suspect. The problem is that police are typically are not punished adequately for terrible crimes so the optics are they get rewarded with a vacation for murder. If I were to be arrested for the things I'm seeing posted here, my boss wouldn't pay me while I sat in jail. It should be no different for cops. They should be arrested, put in jail and pay bail just like the rest of us. Then, when they are back on the streets, the department can put them on paid leave.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:20
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computer parts posted:It's just as likely that businesses will support token reforms because it means they don't have to clean up the mess after some people burn down their stores. That's the thing though, we're talking about White Middle Class people starting to realise how badly the police are behaving and the only push factor for the elite to support reform is if riots occur often enough that it hits their bottom line. As the link on the last page shows, most communities who are victims of police abuse of power aren't rioting, let alone Middle Class Whites who are unhappy about it but not directly affected.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:23
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MickeyFinn posted:If I were to be arrested for the things I'm seeing posted here, my boss wouldn't pay me while I sat in jail. It should be no different for cops. They should be arrested, put in jail and pay bail just like the rest of us. Then, when they are back on the streets, the department can put them on paid leave. For most of the stuff here (e.g., assault without great bodily injury from a bar fight), you would be back on the street within 24 hours, possibly quite less depending on the time you were arrested.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:29
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ReV VAdAUL posted:That's the thing though, we're talking about White Middle Class people starting to realise how badly the police are behaving and the only push factor for the elite to support reform is if riots occur often enough that it hits their bottom line. As the link on the last page shows, most communities who are victims of police abuse of power aren't rioting, let alone Middle Class Whites who are unhappy about it but not directly affected. You're also talking about when those white middle class people do become directly affected. At that point protests among the lower classes are more likely *and* you have moderately wealthy individuals (and more importantly, voters) who are calling up their state representatives to complain.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:30
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Berk Berkly posted:From the Youtube's description: Of course he did. Don't forget, any 'civilian' with a permit to carry would be a felon in most states for drinking in public while in possession of a firearm. Or, you know, for being in a bar in possession of a firearm, depending on the state.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:06
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KernelSlanders posted:It's kind of amazing that they're yelling at a dead guy to stop resisting while trying to pull his arms backwards in a way they don't bend even if you're dead.  STOP RESISTING! Berk Berkly posted:From the Youtube's description: Uhhh, yeah you don't do that to a Marine. I'm actually surprised that he didn't serve any time, DoD doesn't gently caress around with sexual harassment even if it's coming from a non-soldier. Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 16:22
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Berk Berkly posted:I'm certain if the patrons of the bar got confrontational with him, they would have been subject to many bullets to the everything. I dunno, have we seen any examples of a lone cop freaking out at a hostile crowd and just unloading into everyone he can see? I think when they're outnumbered they call in backup first.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:52
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computer parts posted:You're also talking about when those white middle class people do become directly affected. At that point protests among the lower classes are more likely *and* you have moderately wealthy individuals (and more importantly, voters) who are calling up their state representatives to complain. Middle Class Whites may become more affected but the majority of brutality is going to be aimed at minorities and the poor still. My point is that the elite are unconcerned that this brutality is becoming obvious to the Middle Class because they can't do much about it. If rioting starts to break out the elite may well be able to spin it as a direct threat to Middle Class property. Certainly in Ferguson there have been strenuous efforts to keep the protests as peaceful as possible so as not to justify the Police's combat weapons and vehicles and to not to alienate Middle Class Whites who may be sympathetic. Riots becoming common enough to threaten profits will almost certainly lead to greater support for heavy handed tactics, from the Middle and Upper classes, rather than increasing support for reform if the 60s and 70s are any indication.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:56
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zeal posted:This event from my state is linked in that great big list: http://youtu.be/DkhrWZ6twjw quote:A police officer who reviewed cell phone video of the incident reports hearing Derrick say, [b]"This is how Marines deal with soldiers," while slamming the woman into the table. Has anybody else been noticing a thing with Marines?
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Aug 22, 2014 17:13
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Sir Tonk posted:
DoD doesn't gently caress around with sexual harassment?  That's a subject for another thread entirely, but the DoD is plagued with rapes, assaults, and other bullshit all just vanishing or being swept away for some reason or another. Also, since she was a wook she probably was being a bitch anyways.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:30
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KernelSlanders posted:For most of the stuff here (e.g., assault without great bodily injury from a bar fight), you would be back on the street within 24 hours, possibly quite less depending on the time you were arrested. Sure, but that doesn't mean that cops should get a few days to get their stories straight and poo poo. For example, if a cop discharges his weapon in the line of duty, he should be arrested*, booked, go to a bail hearing and then get released like everyone else. If the shooting was appropriate, the charges will be dropped and he can go about his business. The same should be true for assault, battery and all the other things. The point is that cops should be held to the same process that the rest of us are. * If a crime was committed, like reckless endangerment, attempted murder, or something else. A cop shooting at a range wouldn't be arrested any more than one of us regular people.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:10
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MickeyFinn posted:Sure, but that doesn't mean that cops should get a few days to get their stories straight and poo poo. For example, if a cop discharges his weapon in the line of duty, he should be arrested*, booked, go to a bail hearing and then get released like everyone else. You're wrong if you think that every time a white person kills a black person that the white person gets arrested immediately.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:13
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By the way, is there evidence that black COPS are more scrutinized for shooting incidents than their white colleagues?
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Aug 22, 2014 18:15
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Samurai Sanders posted:By the way, is there evidence that black COPS are more scrutinized for shooting incidents than their white colleagues? Since we're unable to get a good number on the number of people killed by police each year (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-many-americans-the-police-kill-each-year/), I doubt there's good information on police shooting incidents by race of officer.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:16
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Then I guess my division wasn't the norm because they were ridiculously serious about it and had more sexual harassment training than anything else. I heard plenty of stories about rapes and poo poo in Iraq, but there was also a significant response to that after it became well known. You can't change everyone overnight, but they're a lot better than they were when I joined in the late 90's. And I'd go as far as to say that the military is far better at respecting the rights of Americans and fellow soldiers than any police department. Samurai Sanders posted:By the way, is there evidence that black COPS are more scrutinized for shooting incidents than their white colleagues? Dunno, but there's always the concern that they're like the Boyz n the Hood/NWA version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPHv_-fqdjM Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 18:24
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Trabisnikof posted:You're wrong if you think that every time a white person kills a black person that the white person gets arrested immediately. I think we're only asking that for a start cops be held to the same racist standard of justice that other white people are held to. Having one racist standard for cops and another for white people is just too complicated.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:34
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Trabisnikof posted:You're wrong if you think that every time a white person kills a black person that the white person gets arrested immediately. Fair point, I suppose. But I stand by my point that cops should be treated like ordinary citizens. Of course, racism should be stomped out with prejudice from society as a whole.
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Aug 22, 2014 19:15
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MickeyFinn posted:Sure, but that doesn't mean that cops should get a few days to get their stories straight and poo poo. For example, if a cop discharges his weapon in the line of duty, he should be arrested*, booked, go to a bail hearing and then get released like everyone else. If the shooting was appropriate, the charges will be dropped and he can go about his business. The same should be true for assault, battery and all the other things. The point is that cops should be held to the same process that the rest of us are. While I agree with you in principle, if you think you're ever going to see a uniformed officer in handcuffs you're living in a fantasy world.
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Aug 22, 2014 19:31
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KernelSlanders posted:It's kind of amazing that they're yelling at a dead guy to stop resisting while trying to pull his arms backwards in a way they don't bend even if you're dead. That kid who stole the powerades and was shot dead in broad daylight was already dead, but they turned over his body to handcuff him anyways, and were screaming at his corpse as though he was still resisting.
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Aug 22, 2014 19:35
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MickeyFinn posted:Sure, but that doesn't mean that cops should get a few days to get their stories straight and poo poo. Fun fact, this is actually Dallas PD policy now. Last year, there was an an officer-involved shooting where the officer made his statement and then surveillance camera footage that contradicted the statement came out. In response, DPD changed a policy to require a 72 hour delay before an officer gives a statement regarding a shooting they were involved in.
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