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Sage Genesis posted:So... Blade and Rayne had a kid (let's call her BladeRayne) and then that kid died, but her various half-vampire powers awoke during death and she rose from the grave. Then there was a real dracula waiting at the grave who bit her to make her fully one of their kind. Unironically better than copying your background from a paragraph I'm the PHB.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:48
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:4e also let you be a half-vampire/vampire/vampire/Vampire. It really was too good for this dumb earth. Can someone remind me how this happens again?
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Aug 22, 2014 15:55
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Falcon2001 posted:Can someone remind me how this happens again? Vampire class, Vryloka race, vampirism multiclass feat, vampiric heritage feat.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:06
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ritorix posted:Official splatbook spotted. Continuing the trend of outsourcing from wotc. Given the general opinion on WotC design here, how can this be a bad (or at least worse) thing?
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Aug 22, 2014 16:38
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In the last 4e game I played, one of the players was essentially a vampire ghost zombie or some poo poo. Like triple undead. He was pretty much untouchable, too. I think he had the Revenant race, Vampire class, and some kind of obscure feat that made him another type of undead. It was an awesome game that also involved me luring a sandworm into a valley to make it kill our enemies for us and then almost being killed when the sandworm was still hungry afterwords (and also because I think the DM was angry that I circumvented an encounter she'd planned by having a sandworm eat that encounter).
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Aug 22, 2014 16:43
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Anyone got a link to that Glaive Warlock build? Need a quick 3rd level character for my game tonight, and that build looked interesting.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:49
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Rugpisser posted:Anyone got a link to that Glaive Warlock build? Need a quick 3rd level character for my game tonight, and that build looked interesting. It's here but it doesn't actually work, as you have to OA with your polearm (which can't benefit from Repelling Blast). Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 17:08
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Plan for world domination, Bard edition. Step 1. Find Ancient red dragon. Step 2. Take appropriate precautions re: fire. Step 3. Conjure Woodland Beings, 8th level slot. Get 24 Pixies. Step 4. All pixies cast Polymorph to turn dragon into goblin. Use any means possible to get save failures. Step 5. Cast Magic Jar on goblin. You are now a goblin with your mental stats and full spellcasting. Step 6. Let pixies go. Polymorph expires. Step 7. You are now an Ancient Red Dragon with all bard abilities.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:11
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Plan to kill the dragon, druid edition. Raise 12,000 gold. Buy 480 acid flasks. Wild Shape into a Giant Eagle. Drop acid bomb on dragon. 960d6 damage.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:16
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Is there really no more summoning? I have a friend that wants to play and we were about to pick up the 5e books but he wants to play a summoner/conjurer. I understand that conjuration is still in the game, but he wants to summon monsters to fight for him. All I can find is Conjure Elemental and Animate/Create Undead for the Wizard. Clerics get Planar Ally and druids get Conjure Animal/Fey? I don't really know what to tell him. It's going to be really hard to ask him to wait until 7th level to be able to summon anything. If he can't be what he wants anyway, we'll probably just play 4e.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:17
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:Is there really no more summoning? I have a friend that wants to play and we were about to pick up the 5e books but he wants to play a summoner/conjurer. I understand that conjuration is still in the game, but he wants to summon monsters to fight for him. All I can find is Conjure Elemental and Animate/Create Undead for the Wizard. Clerics get Planar Ally and druids get Conjure Animal/Fey? Check this out, do a search by school/class - http://5espellbook.azurewebsites.net/SpellIndexFilter
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Aug 22, 2014 17:23
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dwarf74 posted:Plan for world domination, Bard edition. You can only Polymorph things into Beasts. You can only use Magic Jar to possess Humanoids. 
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Aug 22, 2014 17:26
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Jack the Lad posted:You can only Polymorph things into Beasts. You and your rules!
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Aug 22, 2014 17:33
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ritorix posted:Check this out, do a search by school/class - So, yes then... it looks like there's only a small handful of summoning spells and they're split up between multiple classes. Very disappointed with that. I was hoping a conjuration wizard (or warlock, even) would get a summon monster ability.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:35
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Jack the Lad posted:It's here but it doesn't actually work, as you have to OA with your polearm (which can't benefit from Repelling Blast). Isn't that what Warcaster is there for though, to replace the opportunity attack with a magic spell?
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Aug 22, 2014 17:35
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Is it just me or does the Fighter class actually have some as-of-yet unmentioned things going for it? For all the skeleton horde talk and caster supremacy, there still seems to be a lot of interesting things for the Fighter to do in this edition. Action Surge and Extra Attack specifically seem to work in tandem to give you four attacks in one round, right? The Champion archetype still looks like utter trash though and an ultimate trap option. Battle Master looks like the best of the three Archetypes, but I could see some use for the Eldritch Knight too, namely being able to summon your weapon as a bonus action once a turn, directly to your hand. Doesn't this mean that effectively any weapon you bond with as an Eldritch Knight gets a pseudo Returning property? Throwing a weapon and having it back in your hand without having to go retrieve it as a Level 3 Fighter seems like a pretty sweet deal to me. If you multiclass, Fighter also looks like a pretty potent option to dip into due to Action Surge and Extra Attack, especially if you're a full caster like a Wizard because as long as you are proficient with the armor you're wearing (Which comes with levels in Fighter) you can now stomp around in full plate and cast spells without any downside. You can only cast one spell a round I noticed, but it still makes an Elder Scrolls-esque blaster mage/fighter seem like a viable option: Cast a spell like burning hands, Action Surge to use another attack action, which triggers Extra Attack for flames and two attacks wham bam right after another. Of course, there may be some rule I haven't seen yet that shuts this down, but I've been slowly poring through the PHB over the past few days and it seems legit.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:41
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Is there no arcane spell casting failure chance with wearing armor anymore?
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Aug 22, 2014 17:48
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Jack the Lad posted:You can only Polymorph things into Beasts.  So, Step 4-1/2 Cast True Polymorph on frog, turn frog into goblin. Put that in your rules pipe and smoke it.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:50
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Being able to call a sword (or whatever) back to your hand is not even remotely close to the poo poo a wizard/cleric/bard can do. Your definition of "a pretty sweet deal" sounds like a pretty poo poo deal to me. Fighter 2/Wizard X is better than EKnight in every way that matters. crime fighting hog posted:Is there no arcane spell casting failure chance with wearing armor anymore? No. Just can't cast spells in armor you're not proficient in.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:54
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crime fighting hog posted:Is there no arcane spell casting failure chance with wearing armor anymore? According to page 201, no. As long as you're proficient in the armor, go hog wild with spells. If not, you can't cast spells at all. ^e:fb
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Aug 22, 2014 17:56
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treeboy posted:Given the general opinion on WotC design here, how can this be a bad (or at least worse) thing? Sasquatch Games is Rich Baker and David Noonan. So it's not a sign that it's going to bad (I mean Baker wrote the starter set adventure, right?), it's just a sign that Hasbro is offensively penny pinching when it comes to D&D.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:00
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Is it still a good idea for wizard to get drunk and set themselves on fire?
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Aug 22, 2014 18:03
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Agent Boogeyman posted:Is it just me or does the Fighter class actually have some as-of-yet unmentioned things going for it? For all the skeleton horde talk and caster supremacy, there still seems to be a lot of interesting things for the Fighter to do in this edition. Action Surge and Extra Attack specifically seem to work in tandem to give you four attacks in one round, right? The Champion archetype still looks like utter trash though and an ultimate trap option. Battle Master looks like the best of the three Archetypes, but I could see some use for the Eldritch Knight too, namely being able to summon your weapon as a bonus action once a turn, directly to your hand. Doesn't this mean that effectively any weapon you bond with as an Eldritch Knight gets a pseudo Returning property? Throwing a weapon and having it back in your hand without having to go retrieve it as a Level 3 Fighter seems like a pretty sweet deal to me. If you multiclass, Fighter also looks like a pretty potent option to dip into due to Action Surge and Extra Attack, especially if you're a full caster like a Wizard because as long as you are proficient with the armor you're wearing (Which comes with levels in Fighter) you can now stomp around in full plate and cast spells without any downside. You can only cast one spell a round I noticed, but it still makes an Elder Scrolls-esque blaster mage/fighter seem like a viable option: Cast a spell like burning hands, Action Surge to use another attack action, which triggers Extra Attack for flames and two attacks wham bam right after another. Of course, there may be some rule I haven't seen yet that shuts this down, but I've been slowly poring through the PHB over the past few days and it seems legit. You would have to be literally retarded to think it's remotely possible to have fun playing a loving Fighter in Dungeons and Grog-ons 5th Edi-poo poo. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 22, 2014 18:21
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Generic Octopus posted:Being able to call a sword (or whatever) back to your hand is not even remotely close to the poo poo a wizard/cleric/bard can do. Your definition of "a pretty sweet deal" sounds like a pretty poo poo deal to me. You still gotta admit that an ability that basically translates to "You are always holding/wielding your weapon" isn't anything to scoff at on top of the spells you get as an EKnight. No, they still can't hold a candle to full casters, but this is at least a thing you can claim is an actual ability that has no chance of failure, something the Fighter and the other martials are kind of lacking in. The problem with the Fighter is that it starts off with some decent abilities, then peters out at almost exactly Level 5. My point though was that at least these actually ARE abilities as opposed to the half-assed attempt to give martial classes the illusion of "class abilities" in 3E/3.5 through just giving them more of what EVERY class already got (Feats). There's still caster supremacy, but at least at low levels I'm going to feel like I'm actually able to contribute with a Fighter as opposed to twiddling my thumbs wading through dead levels of prerequisite feats to be able to finally do the one thing I wanted my character to do from the start.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:25
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Ruckby posted:You would have to be literally retarded to think it's remotely possible to have fun playing a loving Fighter in Dungeons and Grog-ons 5th Edi-poo poo.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:27
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Agent Boogeyman posted:You still gotta admit that an ability that basically translates to "You are always holding/wielding your weapon" isn't anything to scoff at on top of the spells you get as an EKnight. How much of a benefit is this in practical terms? Are there a lot of enemies capable of disarming you (besides, I assume, rust monsters)? Beyond edge cases of "you and your party of fellow murderhobos are at a swanky gala with NO WEAPONS ALLOWED when suddenly danger strikes" or the GM arbitrarily declaring that everyone is captured by slavers and stripped of all their equipment (always a classic) I guess I'm not seeing the inherent value in an ability that most GMs probably unconsciously grant characters by default. "We get ambushed outside the tavern? I've got my swords, right?" "Yeah sure, now roll initiative."
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Aug 22, 2014 18:41
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Agent Boogeyman posted:You still gotta admit that an ability that basically translates to "You are always holding/wielding your weapon" isn't anything to scoff at on top of the spells you get as an EKnight. No, they still can't hold a candle to full casters, but this is at least a thing you can claim is an actual ability that has no chance of failure, something the Fighter and the other martials are kind of lacking in. The problem with the Fighter is that it starts off with some decent abilities, then peters out at almost exactly Level 5. My point though was that at least these actually ARE abilities as opposed to the half-assed attempt to give martial classes the illusion of "class abilities" in 3E/3.5 through just giving them more of what EVERY class already got (Feats). There's still caster supremacy, but at least at low levels I'm going to feel like I'm actually able to contribute with a Fighter as opposed to twiddling my thumbs wading through dead levels of prerequisite feats to be able to finally do the one thing I wanted my character to do from the start. If you start from a position comparing it to the 3e core, the 5th edition fighter (and the game in general, really) can definitely be viewed as a modest, iterative improvement. If you start from a position comparing it to the 4e fighter, the 5e fighter is hot, wet garbage. That's kind of the thing about 5e; it's not terrible, it's just that there are so many places where it's willfully stupidly badly reinventing the wheel. It's not even that 4e is the best game ever, or even outright better than 5e, it's just that there were numerous problems that were fixed years ago that have suddenly been reintroduced so that the designers can pretend to fix them all over again, but worse.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:45
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Agent Boogeyman posted:Is it just me or does the Fighter class actually have some as-of-yet unmentioned things going for it? For all the skeleton horde talk and caster supremacy, there still seems to be a lot of interesting things for the Fighter to do in this edition. Action Surge and Extra Attack specifically seem to work in tandem to give you four attacks in one round, right? Right. But you get action surge once per short rest, and just getting to make two more attacks isn't interesting. If you had powers and could do something like Come and Get It -> Action Agent Boogeyman posted:I could see some use for the Eldritch Knight too, namely being able to summon your weapon as a bonus action once a turn, directly to your hand. Doesn't this mean that effectively any weapon you bond with as an Eldritch Knight gets a pseudo Returning property? Throwing a weapon and having it back in your hand without having to go retrieve it as a Level 3 Fighter seems like a pretty sweet deal to me. The best throwable weapon is the handaxe, which deals d6 damage. Which is strictly worse than a bow. Meanwhile, also at level 3, Wizards get access to Alter Self, Detect Thoughts, Invisibility, Knock, Rope Trick and Suggestion. Agent Boogeyman posted:If you multiclass, Fighter also looks like a pretty potent option to dip into due to Action Surge and Extra Attack, especially if you're a full caster like a Wizard because as long as you are proficient with the armor you're wearing (Which comes with levels in Fighter) you can now stomp around in full plate and cast spells without any downside. You can get heavy armour proficiency with a 1-level dip in Life Cleric. Getting Extra Attack costs 5 levels, which isn't really a dip, and if you are a majority caster you will not want to be using your action to make weapon attacks in combat anyway. Agent Boogeyman posted:You can only cast one spell a round I noticed, but it still makes an Elder Scrolls-esque blaster mage/fighter seem like a viable option: Cast a spell like burning hands, Action Surge to use another attack action, which triggers Extra Attack for flames and two attacks wham bam right after another. Of course, there may be some rule I haven't seen yet that shuts this down, but I've been slowly poring through the PHB over the past few days and it seems legit. It's not viable compared to either Wizard or Fighter. The casting progression is extremely weak, including the number of spell slots.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:48
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I do wonder how many extra magic items and perks I'd have to throw a martial class to keep them up to speed compared to casters.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:49
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Ruckby posted:You would have to be literally retarded to think it's remotely possible to have fun playing a loving Fighter in Dungeons and Grog-ons 5th Edi-poo poo. For fucks sake, go back to rpg.net.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:51
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Gort posted:I do wonder how many extra magic items and perks I'd have to throw a martial class to keep them up to speed compared to casters. No number of stat sticks will suffice. If you mean winged sandals and helms of invisibility it's probably possible, but I don't know that I'd feel good about it if I were that player. e: Two thoughts I just had. 1. Given that high level Wizards can reasonably come up with multiple viable plans to deal with monsters like Dragons and Tarrasques, I think Fighters should be at least as powerful as them. Leveling up into basically a Tarrasque in a 6 foot tall package would be pretty rad. 2. Fate's Six Viziers subsystem has some pretty cool ideas: quote:By My Hand, Set the World in Motion: Through a combination of speed, dexterity, and uncanny timing, you always have a path forward. In a static environment, this means that you are capable of crazy parkour-like movement to get almost anywhere that could be physically accessed. In a more fluid environment you are impossible to pin down or fence in, as you’ll always find the gap. Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 18:52
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Jack the Lad posted:No number of stat sticks will suffice. The issue is that fighters don't engage with enemies or the terrain (or really anything else) using the same mechanics as casters. You essentially have to give fighters spells in order for them to be equivalent; stats have nothing to do with it.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:56
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:If you start from a position comparing it to the 3e core, the 5th edition fighter (and the game in general, really) can definitely be viewed as a modest, iterative improvement. Eh, I think the 5E fighter is actually pretty comparable to the 4E fighter, at least the Essentials versions. It gets second wind and action points and a variety of maneuvers and up to 4 attacks per action to get close to the damage of those sweet 3 and 4[W] attack powers. It can take a feat to get the Knight's defender aura. That's, at the least, a massive improvement over the 3E version. The problem is casters got back all that narrative power they lost in 4E. So you have a fighter that can kick rear end as well as the 4E version, but that doesn't really matter when casters can bypass encounters with a spell as well as the 3E versions.
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Aug 22, 2014 19:04
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^^^ that's what I've been saying for awhile now, the primary issue is the (re)expansion of caster abilities, not the nerfing of martialsJack the Lad posted:No number of stat sticks will suffice. I was thinking about this as well. I'm not sure flavor wise that i'd be okay with just giving boots of flying or whatever. However giving magic items (somewhat like your edited suggestions) which simply let fighters make statements i.e. "I jump across the chasm" or "I lift the boulder" is a pretty rad idea. Basically give fighters Zelda magic items. Also crib off the caster magic items, where an object has X charges and Z abilites which each have given costs. So maybe bracers of mighty lift (or whatever) let you burn a set number of charges to simply move something. This could be a boulder, or perhaps punching a hole through a castle wall. edit: like thinking off the top of my head Gloves of Strength - Rare You can lift your body weight without need for ability checks, in addition you can use a bonus action expend charges to perform feats of mighty strength. 16 charges Move Object (4) - Move any object twice your strength mod feet (minimum 1) Break Object (2) - Shatter any non-magical object. Magical objects take StrMod*d6 damage (or whatever seems appropriate for badly damaging but not necessarily destroying a magic object) treeboy fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 19:06
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There's an important difference between a character who's cool and a character whose stuff is cool, though of course they can overlap and there's room enough for both in any given elfgame.
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Aug 22, 2014 19:16
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Bongo Bill posted:There's an important difference between a character who's cool and a character whose stuff is cool, though of course they can overlap and there's room enough for both in any given elfgame. i think thats why its important to design the items so that there's something inherent to the character which says "i can use this, nobody else will be as cool as i can be with this item" edit: that way it becomes about enhancing the character's inherent abilities, rather than fiat granting new abilities (which is basically what spells do) treeboy fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 19:19
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PeterWeller posted:Eh, I think the 5E fighter is actually pretty comparable to the 4E fighter, at least the Essentials versions. It gets second wind and action points and a variety of maneuvers and up to 4 attacks per action to get close to the damage of those sweet 3 and 4[W] attack powers. It can take a feat to get the Knight's defender aura. That's, at the least, a massive improvement over the 3E version. Actually I'm gonna disagree on this, because a huge part of why e.g. the Knight functioned was the overarching rules framework within which it existed. The assumption of a grid, OAs 1/turn instead of 1/round and so on. I seriously can't emphasise enough how awful OAs being 1/round in 5e is. Once you've used one, a whole conga line of monsters can dance right past you and you can't do anything about it. treeboy posted:magic items (somewhat like your edited suggestions) which simply let fighters make statements i.e. "I jump across the chasm" or "I lift the boulder" is a pretty rad idea. Giving Fighters those capababilities is a pretty rad idea, but I think it's a lot cooler for it to be inherent than from an item which can be taken from them or nullified by an antimagic field or whatever. And yeah a high level Fighter absolutely should be able to punch through a castle wall. Wizards can cast Earthquake at level 15. Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 19:23
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Jack the Lad posted:Actually I'm gonna disagree on this, because a huge part of why e.g. the Knight functioned was the overarching rules framework within which it existed. The assumption of a grid, OAs 1/turn instead of 1/round and so on. I agree mostly. I don't think one character should be inherently able to stop an entire horde, but there should certainly be ways to scale OA's or otherwise enhance a character's stopping ability. To the point that I'm shocked that OA's are tied to your reaction instead of simply operating off a different resource (like OA's per round = proficiency)
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Aug 22, 2014 19:27
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dwarf74 posted:Yes, that's exactly what everyone is saying. Go you. At least I'm having a quiet chuckle--there, but not audible--every time he posts.
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Aug 22, 2014 19:27
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treeboy posted:I agree mostly. I don't think one character should be inherently able to stop an entire horde, but there should certainly be ways to scale OA's or otherwise enhance a character's stopping ability. To the point that I'm shocked that OA's are tied to your reaction instead of simply operating off a different resource (like OA's per round = proficiency) I dunno, I think stopping an entire horde is totally within the Fighter's remit. One of the examples cited in the Fighter Design Goals was Roland fighting 400 Saracens, and I always thought this scene from Hero was pretty cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLxSRdnGucA
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Aug 22, 2014 19:30
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