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GrandpaPants posted:Archons.  I have slung a vote their way.
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Aug 22, 2014 23:27
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Maybe not, if im not mistaken, a large part of the Archon's marched into the "multiverse" that Merlin talked about, and sealed the shadow gate because of.
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Aug 23, 2014 00:55
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I want to vote for everything, but necromancer and cosmetic dress up have to be my top picks.
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Aug 23, 2014 01:00
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I voted for like half the things. I have no shame. quote:Maybe not, if im not mistaken, a large part of the Archon's marched into the "multiverse" that Merlin talked about, and sealed the shadow gate because of. This is true. I'm not sure if the "Archon" poll option is for the original Archons or new undead Archons. Huh. Also fie on a poll that lets you vote for Syrons (SYRONS!) but not Lizardmen. As much as Necromancer is the runaway option for new Class, and I do want it, I kinda wish there was a strong competing class concept out there. Warlock doesn't do it for me, that's just doubling down on Goth Heroes.
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Aug 23, 2014 01:13
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madmac posted:As much as Necromancer is the runaway option for new Class, and I do want it, I kinda wish there was a strong competing class concept out there. Warlock doesn't do it for me, that's just doubling down on Goth Heroes. A mentalist/psychic would be a neat class. Lots of potential for pretty much any class mechanics/strengths/weaknesses you want to throw in there that the game lacks, the concept is pretty flexible.
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Aug 23, 2014 01:28
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Yeah I would be down for some mind flaying class.
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Aug 23, 2014 03:44
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I am 100% pro-Necromancer because that's black from Master of Magic. Every fantasy TBS should lift ideas/content from Master of Magic.
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Aug 23, 2014 04:37
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Snow Job posted:I am 100% pro-Necromancer because that's black from Master of Magic. Every fantasy TBS should lift ideas/content from Master of Magic. Absolutely, and AoW certainly does, which is a big part of why people love it. It certainly improves on a lot of things too, but to this day not many TBS have come close to the depth of MoM. It is a lofty goal to reach. It was also buggy as gently caress as had no balance at all, but a lot of that was hidden behind only being able to play against AI, and no one really complained about being able to break the AI over their knee. I think AoW3 definitely has a chance at taking the crown, though, if it keeps getting the sort of content additions and polishing and smoothing and general love it has already seen. I hope Triumph makes enough money from the expansion to encourage adding to it for a long time to come. Also, yes, I am hugely excited for a necromancer class, I only mentioned a mindmelter type because someone said there weren't a lot of good class ideas apart from Necro. The way I see it a psyker class could have whatever abilities the game lacked and still work thematically. Anything with "Kinesis" on the end could be a nuke, mental control of the body could explain buffs, mind control is obviously a possibility as well as morale fuckery, or strategic scouting/reshrouding...the limit is just creativity and ease of implementation really. One thing I saw from wild magic that I think the game could really use more of is positioning abilities. Positioning is a huge deal in tactical combat without being a direct nuke or stat buff. The base game has sprint, passwall, and phase. The expansion has that wild magic "randomly teleport everything" spell. Abilities like that would be pretty cool without muscling in on territory other spells/skills already occupy. Maybe one that swaps two unit's location, or one that shoves a unit in a direction - that sort of thing has a lot of potential especially if it can be used both on enemies and friendlies. Carnalfex fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 06:19
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So, I started playing this game and I have a question: Is the diplomatic AI in random map games are busted or am I understanding something wrong? Every AI I meet declares war after a few turns and while that itself is not very problematic, they never refuse my peace proposals but continue to hate me for "declaring war." Also they never meet other AI factions, even the minor ones, and this means they concentrate all their forces on me. I just don't get what I'm supposed to do here. Actually I might also use some tips for economy. Even though I have way more cities than any AI has I'm always running out of gold and consequently do not have enough garrisons to protect them. What's your expansion ordinarily looks like? Do you use produce merchandise option much or raze cities?
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Aug 23, 2014 06:21
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fspades posted:So, I started playing this game and I have a question: Is the diplomatic AI in random map games are busted or am I understanding something wrong? Every AI I meet declares war after a few turns and while that itself is not very problematic, they never refuse my peace proposals but continue to hate me for "declaring war." Also they never meet other AI factions, even the minor ones, and this means they concentrate all their forces on me. I just don't get what I'm supposed to do here. The AI is definitely something the devs said they are working on, it is kind of wonky right now in several ways. Diplomacy is tied into this since diplomacy is not really used with human players unless it is to gift something to a friend.
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Aug 23, 2014 06:33
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So I have not played the game since relatively close to launch. I was looking at the big list of racial unit buffs from 1.2, and thought about giving Orcish Theocrat a go. Is Tireless on Orcish Crusaders as baller as I'm imagining? Moreover, does anyone have any advice on what precisely makes Theocrat tick? Their units never wowed me quite like the other classes did, Shrine of Smiting and Exalted aside, so I was never really clear on what their strategy was supposed to be. Are they meant to lean more heavily on racial units?
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Aug 23, 2014 08:30
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The way I heard it described was that Theocrat is essentially the top dog when it comes to a war of attrition, since they have a ton of healing and can steal units. A losing Theocrat can stall out for longer and a Theocrat Murder Stack will never die and never stop to rest. I don't really like Theocrat personally so I can't say much beyond just "that's what I heard" though.
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Aug 23, 2014 10:40
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madmac posted:As much as Necromancer is the runaway option for new Class, and I do want it, I kinda wish there was a strong competing class concept out there. Warlock doesn't do it for me, that's just doubling down on Goth Heroes. Could also go for the more unusual. Some kind of "Forge and Steel", Saruman style leader who is less "Technology powered by magic!" and more "Technology powered by BRUTE FORCE IRON AND STEEL!  "Then again, whenever i come up with anything like this, i feel like it'd be even better as some kind of sub-class choice instead. You want to be a Warlord this game? How about "Vanilla" Warlord? Or maybe an Iron Warmaster? Or a Psychic Tyrant? Dreadnought? How about a Automaton Dreadnought, one who focuses on expanding the golem concept to its logical extreme? Sorceress? Instead of Air and Lightning, you are now Fire and Earth.
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Aug 23, 2014 10:49
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You wanna use Devout units as a Theocrat, which means supplementing your armies with your good racial Infantry/Cavalry/Support units. Orc priests in particular go well with the Theocrat, since they don't heal by default, and Bestow Curse lowers resistance, which improves the accuracy of Convert. Shock Troopers and Black Knights don't get buffs quite as visible, but are still solid. Strategy-wise, the Theocrat as all about attrition. Your units (other than the martyr) are really good at not dying, and you can bolster your ranks with the Convert ability, particularly after a bit of Cursin'. Be sure to use Denounce City or Mark of the Heretic on troublesome stacks, since the damage boost is quite significant. Also note that Theocrat heroes get an ability that grants Resurgence to its stack at level 11, so save up them points from when you hit level 9. For the units: -Cherub is just your typical scout, and doesn't have much going for it in combat. It gets Resurgence at level gold, if you're ambitious. -Martyrs never really did it for me. They're as strong as irregular units but get more HP. I'm not really a fan, since the Theocrat is all about units not dying and the martyr is a unit made for dying. Might be worth it as an orc, though, since you get +5 HP to all units. -Crusaders are an all-around solid infantry unit and a significant step up from tier I shield infantry. Exactly the kind of unit that likes Tireless. -Evangelists are the only Tier III support unit, I believe. Their lack of a ranged attack can seem off-putting, but they have a solid melee attack (particularly when boosted by devout) and much better defenses than other support units. Use Convert every fight, even if it's just to scoop up some cannon fodder. -Exalted are pretty straightforward. Toss them head first into the fray, draw out your enemies, break up their positioning and don't care a whit if they die in the process. They're your cannon fodder and they're much tougher than anyone else's cannon fodder. -Shrines of Smiting are also pretty straight. Since you should be running mostly on Devout units, they'll pack quite the wallop and can lay down some AoE without hurting your own units. They're especially frightful if you put a Seeker enchantment on them.
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Aug 23, 2014 11:02
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Kajeesus posted:-Evangelists are the only Tier III support unit, I believe. Their lack of a ranged attack can seem off-putting, but they have a solid melee attack (particularly when boosted by devout) and much better defenses than other support units. Use Convert every fight, even if it's just to scoop up some cannon fodder. Unless I remember wrong, draconian theocrats get the firebolt ability on their evangelists?
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Aug 23, 2014 11:09
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I feel like it might be good if they have something like a racial expansion- something like the halfling expansion coming out soon, more often. But if they do something like a class expansion, they could ramp up the feature list and throw in a race as well (Necromancer class is introduced as well as the Archons/Undead. Psionicist is introduced as well as the Syrons/Shadow Demons). I don't know exactly how necessary it is to lump the features together- as adding either a race or a class means a lot more work as the game progresses, so the financial viability of that concept is a little iffy. Maybe it's just me, but I would really like to see another full blown campaign to these games. I really enjoyed the campaign for 3 and kind of want to see it continued in one of the *big* expansions. Still thinkin' Golden Realms is going to rule, though. I just love that luck mechanic. I'm just excited for this game to get more content in general.
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Aug 23, 2014 12:31
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I shot for Warlock and am disappointed that it had a spelling mistake in it!
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Aug 23, 2014 13:07
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All right, lets talk Theocrats for a bit. Orc Theocrat is a great choice, one of the best. The reason is pretty simple, Orcs own at melee combat but have weak resistance, while Theocrat throws around resist buffs like candy but lacks a little bit of oomph in the punching department. Additionally, the Shock Trooper and Black Knight are two of the best units in the game, and Theocrat lets you slap devout on both and set out to wreck some heretics. Even the Orc Priest is super useful, because the effects of Curse renders units more vulnerable to all your best tricks, like stealing units and smiting fools. As a class, Theocrat is very very heavy on buffs and healing. All of your support units get healing, and you get some wicked, wicked buffs. Most notably Mark of the Heretic and it's cousin Denounce City are your bread and butter spells. Units marked as heretics take +3 Phy Dam from devout units, which if you're doing it right should be your entire army. Mighty Meek is another treasure, you can use to give any unit a +2 (Or +3?) damage bonus per difference in Tier. So slap that on a throwaway Tier 1 Pikeman, and have him attack a Manticore for ridiculous damage. Theocrat Heroes make probably the best stack leaders in the game. They can give their army +Resist, Faster Healing, Lower Upkeep, + Spirit Damage, Holy Champion, and, absurdly, even Resurgence. They also get Conversion as a snaggable active ability. Martyrs: Kinda just there, honestly. The special ability is neat but probably not worth more then just bringing a better unit along past the early game. Cherubs: A very good summonable scout, and one of the hardest hitting, especially with Devout/Heretic fuckery. You should be spamming these endlessly in the early to mid game for scouting, map control, and rounding out armies. Crusaders: A rock solid tier two shield dude at a price you can always afford more of. They come packaged with Holy Champion, which is easily overlooked-Against Undead or Devout Units (Human Priests/Knights, other Theocrats) that's a whopping +5 fire damage. It's not at all unusual to get a lowly Crusader hitting for 12+3(Heretic) +1 Spirit (Leader Bonus) +5 Fire (H Champion) and just wrecking poo poo. Evangalist: A rare Tier 3 support, so you get a surprisingly durable healing dude who can also hand out resist buffs and steal enemy units. No ranged attack by default but they pack a decent punch, don't baby them too much. (Also apparently getting changed from 10 Melee Damage to like 6 Phy 8 Spirit in the patch, I've heard.) Exalted: Simple unit but hilariously effective snowballers. A stack of them can pretty much fly around the map creeping everything and leveling up like crazy since they never die. In smaller numbers, still very effective kamikaze units. Go especially well with Orcs for the extra HPs and Melee Damage shoring up their worst attributes. Shrine of Smiting: A unit with a hilariously powerful ranged attack that basically scales infinitely with the size of your army. Since all your non-shrine units should be devout, every 6 extra guys you bring into a battle equates to another +12 Fire and Spirit Damage on your shrine. I like to always take Air Adept on my Theocrats just to slap Seeker on a Shrine and start 1-2 shotting Tier 4 units with it. General strategy, as has been said, is that as a Theocrat with craploads of healing, resurgence, and unit stealing, you should almost never be losing guys. Fighting big battles and coming out with more dudes then you started with is the hallmark of good Theocrat play. Just keep massing and steamrolling until you're unstoppable.
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Aug 23, 2014 15:01
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Arrrthritis posted:I feel like it might be good if they have something like a racial expansion- something like the halfling expansion coming out soon, more often. But if they do something like a class expansion, they could ramp up the feature list and throw in a race as well (Necromancer class is introduced as well as the Archons/Undead. Psionicist is introduced as well as the Syrons/Shadow Demons). I don't know exactly how necessary it is to lump the features together- as adding either a race or a class means a lot more work as the game progresses, so the financial viability of that concept is a little iffy. The thing is, the more classes and races they add the more work it is to add more. For each new race they have to make racial versions of all existing class units, and for each new class they have to make a version of it's stuff for each race in the game. The work required goes up each time. As a lesser increase in work they have to try to have the new race/class fill a mechanic or damage type or something that wasn't in the game as well if they can since that expands the game's depth of strategy instead of being a purely cosmetic change. That said I do hope they continue to do it and am happy to throw whatever money is needed for it, but most players aren't likely to want to pay increasing costs for what they see as the same amount of content. There are quite a few whiners on the official forums already proclaiming the expansion should be free or extremely cheap, the place is kind of starting to sound like Total War Center.
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Aug 23, 2014 15:42
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Carnalfex posted:The thing is, the more classes and races they add the more work it is to add more. For each new race they have to make racial versions of all existing class units, and for each new class they have to make a version of it's stuff for each race in the game. The work required goes up each time. As a lesser increase in work they have to try to have the new race/class fill a mechanic or damage type or something that wasn't in the game as well if they can since that expands the game's depth of strategy instead of being a purely cosmetic change. Right, which is why I'm pretty happy with the current expansion and any other expansion like it. We're still getting a lot of content (and honestly this class system rules balls) as well as a lot more depth to the game. Right now the game feels a little bare-bones which is why I'm so excited about the possibilities of new classes and new races to the game, although there are probably a lot of other ways they could achieve this.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:19
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Is there a way to assign a leader within a stack? Like if I have two equal level heroes, I want the leader to actually be the hero with leader abilities (+damage and whatnot).
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Aug 23, 2014 16:25
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Carnalfex posted:That said I do hope they continue to do it and am happy to throw whatever money is needed for it, but most players aren't likely to want to pay increasing costs for what they see as the same amount of content. There are quite a few whiners on the official forums already proclaiming the expansion should be free or extremely cheap, the place is kind of starting to sound like Total War Center. Official forums are always a cesspit and shouldn't be taken too seriously. I am disappointed with the amount of AoW2 Grognarding this game has attracted, though. It was probably inevitable no matter what. Still, I think the expansion will do fine, people have been begging for more content since AoW 3 was released. Undoubtedly there's a saturation point where fewer players will keep shelling out for marginal content increases but we're nowhere there yet.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:50
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Much like Civ 5, AoW III is going to get better and better with each expansion pack. I'm pumped.
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Aug 23, 2014 18:08
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Arrrthritis posted:I feel like it might be good if they have something like a racial expansion- something like the halfling expansion coming out soon, more often. But if they do something like a class expansion, they could ramp up the feature list and throw in a race as well (Necromancer class is introduced as well as the Archons/Undead. Psionicist is introduced as well as the Syrons/Shadow Demons). I don't know exactly how necessary it is to lump the features together- as adding either a race or a class means a lot more work as the game progresses, so the financial viability of that concept is a little iffy. Wouldn't an undead race and a necromancer class be redundant?
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Aug 23, 2014 19:01
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Judas Iscaredycat posted:Wouldn't an undead race and a necromancer class be redundant? Undead Dreadnought, Dwarven Necromancer. Having said that, I'd probably have one focus on physical undead (Skellies, zombies and flesh monsters) and the other on spiritual undead (ghosts, liches and dread soul-keeping constructs).
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Aug 23, 2014 19:02
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Yeah I don't think it's any more redundant than elven druids or dwarven dreadnoughts. Most races are similar to certain classes, and that can either lead to strong synergy or redundancy depending on how you look at it.
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Aug 23, 2014 19:04
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I prefer the idea of a Necromancer class and no Undead race. Just have your normal guys get recruited with low morale then resurrect as zombies when they die. All your class units could be various magical bone constructs. Be awesome.
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Aug 23, 2014 19:46
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Rabhadh posted:I prefer the idea of a Necromancer class and no Undead race. Just have your normal guys get recruited with low morale then resurrect as zombies when they die. All your class units could be various magical bone constructs. Be awesome. But the thought of an undead legion of machines alone makes me want the Undead available as a race. Although if forced to choose between Necromancer/Undead, I would choose Necromancer.
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Aug 23, 2014 19:48
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Having both wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea, but I feel like if I was a developer with limited time and resources making post-launch content, I'd want to do one or the other. Not that I would know, I'm not a game designer. edit: I just remembered the Archons already have a bunch of stuff, so maybe it wouldn't be as resource intensive to finish them. Judas Iscaredycat fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 20:13
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Also it wouldn't necessarily be generic undead, it'd be undead Archons. There's some room for them to spice things up there.
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Aug 23, 2014 20:34
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Also, undead might just be undead humans/archons, whereas a necromancer class could bring back skeleton/zombie versions of dead animals and such. So an undead necromancer can create undead, but also bring them back during/after combat? I just want my undead musketeers...
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Aug 23, 2014 22:22
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I think the AI might have a big issue with items on the world map on sea tiles. I just found a sunken city about two tiles from n ai throne city with two warships and a wraith lord that didn't have ten hp left between them sitting in it. The sunken city had a stack of about fifteen items, including seven of the ranged items heroes start with. I had the game set to three heroes max so it wasn't the AI suiciding two stacks at once.
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Aug 23, 2014 22:32
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King Doom posted:I think the AI might have a big issue with items on the world map on sea tiles. I just found a sunken city about two tiles from n ai throne city with two warships and a wraith lord that didn't have ten hp left between them sitting in it. The sunken city had a stack of about fifteen items, including seven of the ranged items heroes start with. I had the game set to three heroes max so it wasn't the AI suiciding two stacks at once. It might not be a problem with sea tiles as much as the AI in general - part of the reason the "all heroes get resurgence" option was added was to be able to buff the AI, since it always fights with autocalc when it isn't fighting a player. It seems to be greedy about going to grab items, too, so it probably threw lots of level one heroes at that city trying to recover those goods after losing a stack there. I've seen it do things like that on land, though not quite as hilariously extreme.
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Aug 24, 2014 00:38
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It was one of those ruins you actually need to select the enter option to start the fight, so they didn't need to throw anything in there, they could have just strolled over and grabbed the stuff. There was a couple of mythical items in the pile as well, so it wasn't just a string of level one new recruits. Honestly, the only reason I mention it is because it made me remember a couple of other times I've seen it, albeit with much smaller piles of items. They were all on water special resources, and I'm pretty sure they were explored/cleaned out ones as well.
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Aug 24, 2014 00:52
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Zurai posted:Also it wouldn't necessarily be generic undead, it'd be undead Archons. There's some room for them to spice things up there. I'd rather they didn't do Archon undead. Maybe I'm just super nostalgic, but I really liked the undead in AoW1 and AoW2. I'd love to see traditional undead return as either a race, class, or both. Save Archons for the creeps/neutral building fodder, or return Archons in the living form.
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Aug 24, 2014 00:57
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King Doom posted:It was one of those ruins you actually need to select the enter option to start the fight, so they didn't need to throw anything in there, they could have just strolled over and grabbed the stuff. There was a couple of mythical items in the pile as well, so it wasn't just a string of level one new recruits. Huh. Maybe it was just dumping crappy items? There is no way to get rid of items you no longer need (like a slew of basic bow/wand items) apart from just dropping them on the ground. It is weird they were all on that water dungeon though. Quirky.
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Aug 24, 2014 01:22
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Carnalfex posted:Huh. Maybe it was just dumping crappy items? There is no way to get rid of items you no longer need (like a slew of basic bow/wand items) apart from just dropping them on the ground. It is weird they were all on that water dungeon though. Quirky. The only times I've got that many items is in a campaign after maybe collecting 3 maps worth of equipment.
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Aug 24, 2014 01:27
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Lobsterpillar posted:The only times I've got that many items is in a campaign after maybe collecting 3 maps worth of equipment. Every time you get a new level one hero they come with a starting bow/wand/etc, and Doom said there were a lot of those. I don't even think basic range attack items are in the usual loot drop tables, so for a pile of basic ranged equipment to show up someone has to suicide a lot of heroes. One way or another a lot of would be wizards and generals bit the dirt! I guess we'll have to see what AI improvements the expansion patch brings. Improving autocalc so that it doesn't immediately charge cavalry in to die instead of using them to flank would indirectly be a big buff to the AI, too. What do people think about dwellings? Too easy to gain control of through either quests, buying, or conquest? Are some significantly better than others? Just right in every aspect? Having a dwelling that starts with a t4 and hates you nearby can be scary, but on the flipside having one start nearby that joins you quickly and gifts you one or more t4 units in the process can give you a tremendous advantage. I do think that the dragons are far and away better than other dwelling t4s since they fly and have an aoe they can use on the first turn to devastate an army. No other dwelling t4 can come close to being that kind of a threat. Giants might have comparable stats but don't fly or breathe and I don't think they get fearsome for free either. Dragons are pretty amazing, and rightfully so, but it kind of overshadows other dwellings imo. Then again, I guess they don't have to be comparable to each other since players can't control what dwellings show up, and it encourages people to fight over them. Carnalfex fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 03:25
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So I've started a High Elf Rogue game, and these guys are pretty amazing. High Elf bards basically make longbowmen obsolete as they get the same range attack while getting the unit stealing upside. I'm running a party at the moment with 2 bards and a nymph unit, and every fight means an additional 1-2 units for my army. When things don't work out on the charm/seduce front, assassins are there to blow up the creature that was the target, while the other bard unit peppers it with arrows. Really really enjoying how each different Lord type actually has a pretty large impact on how the game develops. Can't wait for the expansion and some halfling goodness.
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Aug 26, 2014 07:32
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 18:53 |
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Carnalfex posted:Dragons are pretty amazing, and rightfully so, but it kind of overshadows other dwellings imo. Then again, I guess they don't have to be comparable to each other since players can't control what dwellings show up, and it encourages people to fight over them. They are hands down the best but it can sometimes be hard to actually get them - the quests tend to be harder. It's a shame the AI doesn't rank dwellings like a human player would though. They should be better at defending a giant dwelling than say a level 1 goblin city.
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Aug 26, 2014 11:49
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