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Dr. Stab posted:I think you're misunderstanding what value wizards gets out of reprints of expensive cards. When they reprint an expensive card, that sells the set that it's in. Expensive reprintables are a limited quantity. If they reprint it at common and tank the value, it means that they can't pull the same trick again later. It's about milking cards for all that they can get out of them. This argument applies to stuff like Tarmogoyf or Bob but not really to blue cantrips. Modern Masters set(s) are going to sell like the dickens from now until the end of time regardless of whether Serum Visions is a common or an uncommon; Wizards doesn't need to hang the set's marketing on it. The point is that there's a difference between stuff that will always be a legit $8-20 card at any reasonable scale of printing--like good mythics and very strong rare lands--and stuff that is obviously an artificial bubble, like a loving $6 common.
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Aug 23, 2014 07:48
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I'm just waiting for Serum Visions to get banded so all my Portal Sleight of Hands spike. 
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Aug 23, 2014 08:33
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JerryLee posted:Zero reason to move it up to uncommon. It doesn't distort Limited, and the hypothetical John Galts of the cardstock world having carved out their personal fortunes in $6 serum visions isn't actually a real reason not to send it back to 50 cents, occasional Internet rhetoric notwithstanding. Was there ever anything to the buzz that it was going to be reprinted in Theros block, or was that just wishful thinking due to having an appropriate mechanic and matching the flavor of the block somewhat?
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Aug 23, 2014 12:37
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I think it was just speculation after the Magma Jet reprint got spoiled.
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Aug 23, 2014 13:20
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Someone told me on the inside that lightning helix is being reprinted but the guy is also a troll so this may not be true
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Aug 23, 2014 13:33
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Why are Serum Visions so insanely expensive?
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Aug 23, 2014 13:35
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Rinkles posted:Why are Serum Visions so insanely expensive? Every blue modern deck runs 4 and it was printed in a single set that almost nobody bought
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Aug 23, 2014 13:37
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Rinkles posted:Why are Serum Visions so insanely expensive? One of the best Cantrip spells available in Modern and it was only printed in fifth dawn.
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Aug 23, 2014 13:37
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C-Euro posted:Was there ever anything to the buzz that it was going to be reprinted in Theros block, or was that just wishful thinking due to having an appropriate mechanic and matching the flavor of the block somewhat? Thankfully we got chord of calling in the set with convoke in it. Was really dumb not having serums in a scry block.
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Aug 23, 2014 13:38
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Tonetta posted:Every blue modern deck runs 4 and it was printed in a single set that almost nobody bought But 5th Dawn was awesome! Is Preordain cheaper because of availability or because it's generally inferior in decks with card drawing (or multiple Serums, I guess)?
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Aug 23, 2014 13:43
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Rinkles posted:But 5th Dawn was awesome! Preordain is cheaper because it's banned in Modern. Hence less demand. (It's much better than Serum Visions, which is why it's banned but Serum Visions is not.)
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Aug 23, 2014 13:45
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Chill la Chill posted:Thankfully we got chord of calling in the set with convoke in it. Was really dumb not having serums in a scry block. Serum was some poo poo the Neurok were chugging on Mirrodin. I'm sure they didn't want the precious flavor to be ruined by printing it in Greek block.
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Aug 23, 2014 13:56
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Tonetta posted:Someone told me on the inside that lightning helix is being reprinted but the guy is also a troll so this may not be true Wasn't Warleaders Helix originally supposed to be Lightning Helix?
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Aug 23, 2014 13:57
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Dr. Clockwork posted:Serum was some poo poo the Neurok were chugging on Mirrodin. I'm sure they didn't want the precious flavor to be ruined by printing it in Greek block. The Wrath reprint in FTV is reflavored to fit Heliod, so it's not like vague titles haven't been reinterpreted for the different worlds' lore before.
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Aug 23, 2014 14:02
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mcmagic posted:Wasn't Warleaders Helix originally supposed to be Lightning Helix? Yes, they were concerned about it being in Standard with Snapcaster, and knew or expected it would be in Modern Masters.
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Aug 23, 2014 14:04
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Jabor posted:Preordain is cheaper because it's banned in Modern. Hence less demand. I would actually like to state that serum visions is actually the better cantrip in some decks, but not many. mcmagic posted:Wasn't Warleaders Helix originally supposed to be Lightning Helix? I don't know, I was out of magic when warleaders was printed but I would have to say yes but it was too strong? Just a guess
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Aug 23, 2014 14:06
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Heavy Lobster posted:The Wrath reprint in FTV is reflavored to fit Heliod, so it's not like vague titles haven't been reinterpreted for the different worlds' lore before. Not defending it, just saying they have a tendency to do this. See: Bushido and ninjitsu.
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Aug 23, 2014 14:18
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Chill la Chill posted:Thankfully we got chord of calling in the set with convoke in it. Was really dumb not having serums in a scry block. Of course, there was no noble hierarch in the set with exalted in it again. Dr. Clockwork posted:Serum was some poo poo the Neurok were chugging on Mirrodin. I'm sure they didn't want the precious flavor to be ruined by printing it in Greek block. I mean the greeks had oracles that were just high as poo poo giving visions so I'm sure they could have made it work. RME fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 14:26
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Dr. Clockwork posted:Not defending it, just saying they have a tendency to do this. See: Bushido and ninjitsu. Do they not feel they can make new keywords that do the same thing? Myself I would be happy to see the samurai and ninja types included in other settings. Bushido has broader applications though, I think that's the one they always wish they had named differently.
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Aug 23, 2014 14:27
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RME posted:Of course, there was no noble hierarch in the set with exalted in it again. They probably could have cooked up a reason for Serum Visions in Theros, Hierarach I think would not have fit M13. Exalted was BW in that set, and Hierarach has Bant shard all over it, and they probably didn't want a single card supporting three colours in a Core Set.
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Aug 23, 2014 14:32
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Dr. Clockwork posted:Serum was some poo poo the Neurok were chugging on Mirrodin. I'm sure they didn't want the precious flavor to be ruined by printing it in Greek block. Yeah. The oracle of Delphi was huffing on some fumes or serums or whatever but fits. Nerds would've expected it after seeing 300's oracle anyway.
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Aug 23, 2014 14:34
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drat, that Serum price is just another reason I could be kicking myself for having sold all my cards a few years back. I remember getting a Fifth Dawn box and getting so many of them, being common and all. Could've properly sold them nowadays and maybe get a cheap dual! At least I managed to hold onto one of my textless versions of Ponder.
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Aug 23, 2014 15:17
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BizarroAzrael posted:Do they not feel they can make new keywords that do the same thing? Myself I would be happy to see the samurai and ninja types included in other settings. Bushido has broader applications though, I think that's the one they always wish they had named differently. In the State of Design 2014 column from last week, MaRo talks about how Devotion was their first big attempt at revamping (flavor-wise and functionally) an old, flawed mechanic (in this case Chroma) and it was clearly a hit. So, yeah, I think new keywords that do the same (or a slightly different) thing as stuff like Bushido are definitely something to look forward to in the next few years. I'm also really curious about the new, potentially evergreen evasion mechanic he's talked about that's a ways down the pipeline -- it's been a while since it's been mentioned but it sounds like R&D is pretty down on intimidate and wants to eventually phase it out and introduce something new in its place. Someone in this thread suggested at one point that a "can't be blocked by creatures with less power than ~" is simple and flexible enough to fit the bill, and that doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me.
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Aug 23, 2014 15:20
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goferchan posted:In the State of Design 2014 column from last week, MaRo talks about how Devotion was their first big attempt at revamping (flavor-wise and functionally) an old, flawed mechanic (in this case Chroma) and it was clearly a hit. So, yeah, I think new keywords that do the same (or a slightly different) thing as stuff like Bushido are definitely something to look forward to in the next few years. I'm also really curious about the new, potentially evergreen evasion mechanic he's talked about that's a ways down the pipeline -- it's been a while since it's been mentioned but it sounds like R&D is pretty down on intimidate and wants to eventually phase it out and introduce something new in its place. Someone in this thread suggested at one point that a "can't be blocked by creatures with less power than ~" is simple and flexible enough to fit the bill, and that doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me. Setting a minimum number of blockers has come up a few times since Madcap Skills too, seems another possibility.
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Aug 23, 2014 15:24
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Reid Duke on the SCG feed playing GU Devotion with Yisan, The Wonderer Bard. lol
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Aug 23, 2014 15:37
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mcmagic posted:Reid Duke on the SCG feed playing GU Devotion with Yisan, The Wonderer Bard. lol This deck looks stupid fun, I definitely want to try it out. edit: No wait, I now need to play it. Ramos fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 15:53
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Reid Duke's Yisan deck looks amazing and insane. Yisan for 2, get Burning Tree, use that with Kiora's Follower to Yisan again the same turn for Courser, then everything untaps with Prophet of Kruphix. Blocks an army of G/W dudes by Yisan-ing for Nylea's Disciple, with ETB trigger on the stack Yisans AGAIN for Arbor Colossus, gains 12 life. Next turn Yisans for Prime Speaker to draw 7 cards just for one last "gently caress you." My guess is that this is a deck is brewed for the Pro Tour that he decided wasn't good enough at the last second, and this is the perfect venue to play it out. qbert fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 16:14
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Yeah, if there's anything that can spew out cards faster than monogreen devotion, I guess it would be green and blue with the prophet.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:19
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Yow, this might be the deck to get me to play Green. Mostly cheap stuff by the look of it, and I don't think anything really key is rotating. Scooze and BTE seem good here, but I think it works without them.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:20
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BizarroAzrael posted:Yow, this might be the deck to get me to play Green. Mostly cheap stuff by the look of it, and I don't think anything really key is rotating. Scooze and BTE seem good here, but I think it works without them. You lose Zegana as well, but Hydra Broodmaster might be able to do a reasonable impersonation given how much mana this deck can make.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:24
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Looks like it has the all the same stregnths and weaknesses of all these Gx Devotion decks. If there isn't a 4 Mana Wrath in Kahn's, those decks are gonna be all over the place.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:25
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The Lord of Hats posted:You lose Zegana as well, but Hydra Broodmaster might be able to do a reasonable impersonation given how much mana this deck can make. There's still going to be a good variety of draw, though maybe nothing quite on Zegana's level of good. Interpret the Signs, Jace's Ingenuity, and Life's Legacy. I'm sure it's mainly going to be a matter of finding which one best fits the bill or if Khans comes in with something suitable.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:28
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I haven't played the deck, but I think you guys are underestimating the loss of BTE, because BTE lets you easily untap with 5-6 devotion on turn 3 and start doing crazy things.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:32
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Rules Question: If my opponent has a Desecration Demon in play and I play a Goblin Rabblemaster pre combat, can I make a goblin and sac to the Demon before attacks or does the Demon trigger take place before I create a Gobin? I'm pretty sure it's the later but I wanted to make sure.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:41
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BizarroAzrael posted:They probably could have cooked up a reason for Serum Visions in Theros, Hierarach I think would not have fit M13. Exalted was BW in that set, and Hierarach has Bant shard all over it, and they probably didn't want a single card supporting three colours in a Core Set. They also probably didn't want too many overly-good mana dorks in Standard. We've already lost Birds of Paradise, and it really seems like they're going in the direction of "you get one 1-drop accelerator, then all the other ramp costs 2 or more". Elyv posted:I haven't played the deck, but I think you guys are underestimating the loss of BTE, because BTE lets you easily untap with 5-6 devotion on turn 3 and start doing crazy things. Yeah, Turn 1 Elvish Mystic, Turn 2 BTE into Voyaging Satyr sets up some crazy turn 3 Nykthos plays. mcmagic posted:Rules Question: Both abilities trigger at the start of combat. But since it's your turn, your ability goes on the stack first, so the Demon trigger resolves before you get your goblin. Entropic fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 16:42
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mcmagic posted:Rules Question: No, you can't. Desecration Demon occurs at the start of combat, the Rabblemaster's trigger occurs in reaction to the start of combat.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:43
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goferchan posted:Someone in this thread suggested at one point that a "can't be blocked by creatures with less power than ~" is simple and flexible enough to fit the bill, and that doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me. That would be a better use for the name Intimidate...
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Aug 23, 2014 16:43
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Entropic posted:Both abilities trigger at the start of combat. But since it's your turn, your ability goes on the stack first, so the Demon trigger resolves before you get your goblin. The question was answered by the commentators, and it was Entropic's reason rather than Ramos' explanation.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:46
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v vLive and learn, I suppose.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:47
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Ramos posted:No, you can't. Desecration Demon occurs at the start of combat, the Rabblemaster's trigger occurs in reaction to the start of combat. You're correct he can't do it, but your wording is pretty weird. Both triggers go off at the same time, but active player's trigger is put on the stack first, so it resolves last. So Demon trigger would resolve, then Rabblemaster's.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:48
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