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I had a friend who was like that. Then she started taking the meds and the voices went away.
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Aug 24, 2014 14:58
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I too am a little creeped out by the "My characters take a life of their own!" pretension. To me, it sounds like someone boasting about how preciously wonderful their fictional creations are. How three-dimensional and well-rounded they are! How well-written and impressive! But that's just me.
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Aug 24, 2014 15:22
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The way I interpreted it was that you make up a set of fictional traits, put them together, then try to hash out how they would, in your experience, play out. So, it's kinda like those mental exercises where you're thinking of introducing two friends to each other, and before you do that you try to figure out how they're gonna react to one another. Only, instead of friends, it's these hypothetical people, and instead of you introducing them, some fictive circumstance is bringing them together. Sure, it's pretentious, but all of fiction is a pretense, a telling of something that is not true, that is to say, deliberately lying to the reader, and they know you're lying, and they're going along anyway in order to experience something kinda like a consensual form of enjoyable delusion.
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Aug 24, 2014 15:49
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Veyrall posted:The way I interpreted it was that you make up a set of fictional traits, put them together, then try to hash out how they would, in your experience, play out. So, it's kinda like those mental exercises where you're thinking of introducing two friends to each other, and before you do that you try to figure out how they're gonna react to one another. Thesaya posted:Independent characters can be really annoying at times though, like when I mentally had to "argue" with a character who wanted to kill herself. She would never attempt suicide as a call for help, so she slit her throat. Eventually I managed to get her to simply slip up so it wasn't lethal. 
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Aug 24, 2014 16:14
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It's pretentious in the first place to think that anyone would want to read an author's story, so I don't think it really matters how the process goes in any given instance.
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Aug 24, 2014 16:23
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We all know Bobbin's video and edit script files are not only sentient but also actively hostile and try to escape/destroy themselves from his harddrive at every given opportunity.
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Aug 24, 2014 16:31
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Tiggum posted:No, that's not pretentious, that's just how you write a character. This is pretentious: I feel like it is a little unfair to call a writer's methods pretentious. People who write have all kinds of different techniques and ways of writing. Hell Jonathan Swift supposedly trained tiny dream people to put on plays while he slept and then used that as inspiration for his stories, including Gulliver's Travels. I heard this on NPR and have been looking for it but of course can not find it, so I probably sound crazy. I think the product can be pretentious, and some methods can sound totally bizarre, but it just seems unfair to deride certain techniques.
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Aug 24, 2014 16:49
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RoadCrewWorker posted:We all know Bobbin's video and edit script files are not only sentient but also actively hostile and try to escape/destroy themselves from his harddrive at every given opportunity.
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Aug 24, 2014 17:31
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RoadCrewWorker posted:We all know Bobbin's video and edit script files are not only sentient but also actively hostile and try to escape/destroy themselves from his harddrive at every given opportunity. I thought that that was just general IT behaviour?
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Aug 24, 2014 18:49
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double nine posted:I thought that that was just general IT behaviour? That's how we know.
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Aug 24, 2014 18:55
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Jay Rust posted:I too am a little creeped out by the "My characters take a life of their own!" pretension. To me, it sounds like someone boasting about how preciously wonderful their fictional creations are. How three-dimensional and well-rounded they are! How well-written and impressive! Since I am not a writer, I used to just discard as a quirk of the English language, but after having read a lot of interviews with authors whom opinions I respect, I've seen this "life of characters" show up more often and explained as a thing that actually happens, but that is still very rare and difficult for people who do not write a lot of fiction to experience. As a non-author, all I really can do is take their word for it, but saying I'm creeped out by it just is doing them a huge disservice.
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Aug 24, 2014 19:03
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For what little it's worth, I'm studying creative writing at university, which I guess is some kind of qualification. Anyway, people can say that their characters have a mind of their own, but I personally feel that doing so is either an attempt to romanticise the writing process, or to appear to be a "good writer". It should be noted that I'm unnaturally cynical about these things and maybe a little too prone to roll my eyes, but, yeah. In the end, it's just a quirk I've noticed among young writers and it annoys me because I'm miserable.
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Aug 24, 2014 22:34
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I've always taken it to be more along the lines that the author wants a situation to resolve in a certain way, but realizes that the character they've been building all this time would never act in the way originally planned and would instead do something different. I don't see what's so unbelievable and flowery about the whole thing.
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Aug 25, 2014 02:31
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I like it when nerds use the word pretentious as a pejorative to disrupt criticism more rigorous than "it was awesome when the dude did a thing. that was epic and badass, when i read it." because it deploys vocablary as a prophylactic against engagement under the surface guise of intelligence and aloofness from the text. It uses the word pretentious pretentiously in a literal sense, and that is adorable IMO.
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Aug 25, 2014 02:37
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Yo, is it "pretentiousness" or "pretense"?
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Aug 25, 2014 02:55
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George posted:Yo, is it "pretentiousness" or "pretense"?
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Aug 25, 2014 03:06
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Specifically, to be pretentious is to deploy signifiers out of proportion to ~~whatever~~, thereby elevating ("pretending") to a loftier station than one actually occupies. So when someone is attempting deconstructive criticism or a reading from an alternative perspective and some neckbeard calls the process pretentious trying to shut down the conversation because golly gosh I'm sure the author didn't intend for that meaning to emerge from the text, stop making GBS threads up the thread by reading into things, why do you hate fun etc etc then its using the word pretentious when the speaker/writer really really clearly doesn't know how its used in a sentence, but they've heard it used as a pejorative term before by people they're pretty sure knew what they were talking about. This is goddamned hilarious to people who do know what the word pretentious means
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Aug 25, 2014 03:17
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Willie Tomg posted:Specifically, to be pretentious is to deploy signifiers out of proportion to ~~whatever~~, thereby elevating ("pretending") to a loftier station than one actually occupies. How prescriptive of you. RoadCrewWorker posted:We all know Bobbin's video and edit script files are not only sentient but also actively hostile and try to escape/destroy themselves from his harddrive at every given opportunity. It's been under control ever since I downloaded the exorcism app, although the constant droning Latin gets on my nerves after a few hours. Still, it works, and that's what's important. I tried a few Shinto charms once but all that got me was demonic laughter.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:33
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:How prescriptive of you. Have you tried getting in contact with the Black Chamber? I hear they have experience with this kind of thing.
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Aug 25, 2014 04:27
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Willie Tomg posted:Specifically, to be pretentious is to deploy signifiers out of proportion to ~~whatever~~, thereby elevating ("pretending") to a loftier station than one actually occupies. From your given example, it sounds like you might be missing the forest for the trees if you're sticking on their misuse of the word "pretentious" in their requests that you stop making GBS threads up the thread by reading into things, and that you hate fun.
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Aug 25, 2014 05:32
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Willie Tomg posted:Specifically, to be pretentious is to deploy signifiers out of proportion to ~~whatever~~, thereby elevating ("pretending") to a loftier station than one actually occupies. That is very pretentious of you.
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Aug 25, 2014 05:37
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Willie Tomg posted:Specifically, to be pretentious is to deploy signifiers out of proportion to ~~whatever~~, thereby elevating ("pretending") to a loftier station than one actually occupies. So it's "pretense".
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Aug 25, 2014 06:34
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Gimbal lock posted:From your given example, it sounds like you might be missing the forest for the trees if you're sticking on their misuse of the word "pretentious" in their requests that you stop making GBS threads up the thread by reading into things, and that you hate fun. counterfeitsaint posted:That is very pretentious of you. I don't know words anymore. This whole discussion has convinced me that I'm speaking some kind of evolved grunts and whistles rather than language.
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Aug 25, 2014 12:49
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This thread has exceeded my prehensility
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Aug 25, 2014 13:28
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RoadCrewWorker posted:This thread has exceeded my prehensility god drat  man English can be a loving weird language sometimes, sometimes I feel it's even more obtuse than the Romantic languages purely for the sake of obstructing other people.
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Aug 25, 2014 15:52
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    Handouts: AF: Bob Page Beth's Will Jacob's Shadow: Chapter 27 Vault Code Nicolette Email: Silhouette Business Nicolette Email: RE: Your Help Beth Email: Final Message Known misses: Nicolette's skull hides some secrets. Please note that I am aware I accidentally called Beth "Claire" a few times. Bobbin Threadbare fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 16:58
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This was probably a lot of people's favorite map, and you can definitely tell that people that worked on this game also worked on Gone Home simply to how the map's composed. You only find resistance at the end, but it's still riveting to explore.
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Aug 25, 2014 17:02
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I would suggest picking up the skull in Nicollete's room.
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Aug 25, 2014 17:46
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:
Bobbin, how long have you been thinking about these concepts? Not the LP, not the Corners, but "freedom", "safety", "human enhancement", and other philosophical topics broached during the lp?
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Aug 25, 2014 17:57
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Just Offscreen posted:I would suggest picking up the skull in Nicollete's room. Yup, this is a good idea.
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Aug 25, 2014 18:14
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double nine posted:Bobbin, how long have you been thinking about these concepts? Not the LP, not the Corners, but "freedom", "safety", "human enhancement", and other philosophical topics broached during the lp? From the very beginning, I suppose. Apparently I was around four years old when I first asked my parents what it really meant to be dead. I remember closing my eyes and trying to imagine everything being black and empty forever and how it scared the crap out of me.
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Aug 25, 2014 18:22
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Sorry to interrupt with trivia, but Leibniz is actually supposed to be pronounced the German way, Libe-nitz (/ˈlaɪbnɪts/) rather than Leebnitz. The idea that we can only have complete freedom or complete government surveillance, the one you spoke against in the last bit, is an example of false dichotomy. I can't count how many times I've seen people involved in any sort of debate pretend that their opponent was presenting the most radical of views and then (easily) show why it's wrong, never responding to the other person's actual points.  It's undeniably true that we need both a degree of safety and of freedom, but all too often it's impossible to reach any compromise because folks would rather demolish a strawman than discuss matters with a person. Mostly, I wanted to throw the name out there; it's been a lot easier for me to follow disputes and notice holes in arguments since I read up a bit on kinds of fallacies and eristic manoeuvres.
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Aug 25, 2014 18:56
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:From the very beginning, I suppose. Apparently I was around four years old when I first asked my parents what it really meant to be dead. I remember closing my eyes and trying to imagine everything being black and empty forever and how it scared the crap out of me. My first real existential bout with death was when I was like six or seven and my family was watching a Discovery special on the extinction of the dinosaurs, and grappling with the concept that a thing could completely no longer exist gave me nightmares for like a week.
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Aug 25, 2014 18:57
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Part of the reason that the 10 day week fails is that there is no equitable way to split the week in to work and rest going from the 7 day week. Let's not count holidays since they vary from place to place. With a 5/2 split we have 5x52 = 260 work days and 104 rest days. For the 10 day week the logical splits are 7/3 and 8/2. If we start with the 7/3 we end up with 7x36 = 252 work and 112 rest days. It is close but the businesses are losing just over a traditional week of work a year. With the 8/2 we get 288 and 72. And here the worker loses more than a month of rest days compared to the 5/2 split.
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Aug 25, 2014 19:20
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I'm really glad we managed to get this far, the DuClare Chateau is my second favourite place in the entire game as well as having my favourite song of the entire game to relax to. Since we're now here I'd like to take a moment to give a big shout-out to the OC Remix Album "Sonic Augmentation" which was touched upon briefly in this thread earlier. I was reluctant to bring it up due to possible spoilers in the song names, but we are now finally past that point since this song directly is in two remixes of this album. It's an awesome album too considering that it was made by a group of fans who then got big props from Eidos Montreal who supported the remix on Facebook, but ALSO for having Alexander Brandon the composer of this game to come in and even do some remixes himself. Of particular interest is that he even rearranged this very level's theme, in a song called "Ma Chérie Nicolette". So for Deus Ex soundtrack enthusiasts you all should have a listen.  On the note of music, it made me smile a lot that you even had a song from "Waking Ned Devine" Bobbin, cuz that movie is awesomely funny. Also...wow poo poo I had no idea Nicolette DuClare was such a chatterbox goddamn, that is a lot of stuff to say. FinalGamer fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 19:50
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1784 was the "official" year the Weishaupt-edition Illuminati disbanded. Given the state of the illuminati in DX, it would seem Beth was not without a certain sense of irony. There was another locked door in Beth's room I don't think you went through. I forget if it had anything more than a closet or bathroom or similar. Seconding that listen to Sonic Augmentations. It's a regular in my playlist alongside the masterful McCann soundtrack for HR.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:10
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OAquinas posted:There was another locked door in Beth's room I don't think you went through. I forget if it had anything more than a closet or bathroom or similar. Both doors lead into the hallway, actually.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:15
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It was only a while until the Knights Templar got name-dropped, considering the nature of this game. Sadly, as far as conspiracies go, they bare the brunt of it alone, without much mention of their sister organizations: the Knights Hospitaller and Knights Teutonic. While I am certain Mr. Threadbare will eventually go over their history, I happen to know of a pretty decent radio documentary on the whole Knights gambit. The Sword Brothers by Phillip Coulter was done for CBC Radio's Ideas program about two years ago. Should be accessible on a Canadian proxy.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:19
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Oh, another funny tidbit--if she doesn't get stuck on the first step (like it appears she did in your game) and you enter in through the window, you get treated to Nicolette hulking out and smashing through the timbers to get to you.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:08
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I guess you could go with Kant's What Is Enlightenment as the reason for the 1784 code. (My first guess was the death of Rousseau, but turned out to be wrong) I do love the Chateau DuClaire theme. Champs Elysses isn't particularly memorable, but there's something nicely melancholic and old about the Chateau.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:37
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