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Please never fix things like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfyvekRDi5o
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Aug 25, 2014 18:44
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Edminster posted:This is super-nice as an idea. Thanks! Sadly, I totally lack the skills to implement it.
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Aug 25, 2014 18:45
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In my ideal world I'm using I've got an interplanetary grand tour cruise ship going. It's got a variety of giant 3m parts in the stack with a couple of atomic rockets pulling it along. In the Hangar it's got a lander for doing science experiments, another for mining karbonite, and a scoop-equipped suborbiter for jool refuelling. And then it's got another Hangar-like container full of KAS parts that I can use to fix stuff or perform upgrades mid-mission. I'll point out here that Hangar also has CC licensing and doesn't let you break the laws of physics. Keeping part counts low is a big thing.
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Aug 25, 2014 18:55
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Lord Yod posted:In my ideal world I'm using I've got an interplanetary grand tour cruise ship going. It's got a variety of giant 3m parts in the stack with a couple of atomic rockets pulling it along. In the Hangar it's got a lander for doing science experiments, another for mining karbonite, and a scoop-equipped suborbiter for jool refuelling. And then it's got another Hangar-like container full of KAS parts that I can use to fix stuff or perform upgrades mid-mission. Fair enough  Let me get the basics working first then.
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Aug 25, 2014 19:26
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I'm planning to use Hangar in conjunction with Jump Drive and docking to make a jump ship that can piggy back things from place to place. So much station building!
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Aug 25, 2014 19:30
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haveblue posted:Do it by mass and pretend it's a replicator A 3D printer would make perfect sense as near-future space-tech, in line with the style of stock KSP, and a way to abstract away container fiddliness.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:10
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eth0.n posted:A 3D printer would make perfect sense as near-future space-tech, in line with the style of stock KSP, and a way to abstract away container fiddliness. I actually kinda like this idea... a module that had a generic resource used as a material for 3D printing and once activated just pooped the part out, at which point you could just grab it. Yes.... I like this idea a lot.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:18
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eth0.n posted:A 3D printer would make perfect sense as near-future space-tech, in line with the style of stock KSP, and a way to abstract away container fiddliness. RoverDude posted:I actually kinda like this idea... a module that had a generic resource used as a material for 3D printing and once activated just pooped the part out, at which point you could just grab it. Please allow us to convert asteroids into this generic resource. 
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Aug 25, 2014 20:22
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It makes somewhat less sense when you use it to produce things with exotic material components like solar panels, but it would be great from a gameplay perspective.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:23
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haveblue posted:It makes somewhat less sense when you use it to produce things with exotic material components like solar panels, but it would be great from a gameplay perspective. True, so perhaps a combination of resources... some basic/easy stuff then the more complex the model the more exotic stuff you need. So making girders, etc... easy. engines are a bit harder. Solar panels are kinda at the extreme. So a combination 3D printer, CNC, and small workbench.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:25
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RoverDude posted:True, so perhaps a combination of resources... some basic/easy stuff then the more complex the model the more exotic stuff you need. So making girders, etc... easy. engines are a bit harder. Solar panels are kinda at the extreme. So a combination 3D printer, CNC, and small workbench. That could be a way to tech-gate things, have two or three levels of materials, and two or three levels of in-situ production facitilities. Two types of material (regular and rare) probably makes most sense, and then three levels of production facility. The higher level production facilities would probably be larger and heavier, in addition to being later in the tech tree.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:31
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RoverDude posted:True, so perhaps a combination of resources... some basic/easy stuff then the more complex the model the more exotic stuff you need. So making girders, etc... easy. engines are a bit harder. Solar panels are kinda at the extreme. So a combination 3D printer, CNC, and small workbench. I'd just limit it to things that are grabbable. The idea is to represent having a set of small parts, rather than to be a full on production system. EPL already does that just fine.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:33
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nielsm posted:That could be a way to tech-gate things, have two or three levels of materials, and two or three levels of in-situ production facitilities. Two types of material (regular and rare) probably makes most sense, and then three levels of production facility. The higher level production facilities would probably be larger and heavier, in addition to being later in the tech tree. Yep... and I can finally use all of the tier 1/2/3 resources in MKS and add them to CRP, along with a tier 4 of the really fiddly bits. So the config to load these in would just be a matter of defining the recipe to make them, and when you right click on the printer thingie you see what recipes you can make. Yeah... I think I know what I'm building next..
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Aug 25, 2014 20:34
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Platonicsolid posted:I'd just limit it to things that are grabbable. The idea is to represent having a set of small parts, rather than to be a full on production system. EPL already does that just fine. By engine I meant the little ones  And concur, really should be for the smaller parts at, say, half a ton or less (for a 2.5m unit)
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Aug 25, 2014 20:36
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The solar panel comment was a joke; using multiple resources is falling into the same trap that made Squad abandon their own resource plan. Just pretend that anything and everything can be made out of whatever the mass resource is going to be called, like pixels in Starbound.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:36
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RoverDude posted:By engine I meant the little ones 
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Aug 25, 2014 20:38
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Phssthpok posted:Oh, now I see that it's an RTG. Imagine that one says "part clipping" too. It's still clipping graphically even if you don't have to explicitly enable clipping to do it. =p The fingers quote, now I get the name, Pak Protector - a most excellent book. And if the editor does it like that, it ain't clipping it's just untidy. RoverDude posted:So one thing I actually don't like about KAS is the containers... I mean, the whole bit about shuffling and sorting your stuff along with space/mass/bulk considerations is part of the challenge. I'd rather have cargo bays that open up with lots of surface attachment space or service modules to stick stuff to. KAS 0.4.2 was released under GPL, I posted the page range in the old KAS thread where the discussion takes place. But yeah, doing it fresh is probably safer but it makes me weep inside for all the effort KospY put into KAS. Majiir really hosed him over. The major problem with the KAS containers I found was the contents don't seem to be masked, meaning they count to the scene part count. I built a base module with 24 containers, filled them with spare parts and my PC had a fit when went to launch it. RoverDude posted:True, so perhaps a combination of resources... some basic/easy stuff then the more complex the model the more exotic stuff you need. So making girders, etc... easy. engines are a bit harder. Solar panels are kinda at the extreme. So a combination 3D printer, CNC, and small workbench. Something I've fancied seeing the EL people do is refurbishment. I launch a vehicle, say grab a asteroid and once it's back I'd like to be able to put it in a 'dock' and have the dock consume something then spit out the ship again with all the missing parts (asparagus tanks, decouplers, probes or whatever) according to the original craft file. I think the EL or shipyard team were doing the 3D printer idea too though I've not looked in on them for a while.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:46
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nielsm posted:That could be a way to tech-gate things, have two or three levels of materials, and two or three levels of in-situ production facitilities. Two types of material (regular and rare) probably makes most sense, and then three levels of production facility. The higher level production facilities would probably be larger and heavier, in addition to being later in the tech tree. Anything with actual resource management should be a separate mod from KAS. KAS should be a tool to help with your resource management, not another resource to have to manage. Now, if a KAS 3d printer came with a generic resource that you can print limited objects from, great, but if anything it should just recycle parts for fuel. For flavor say it's Jeb's junk bin and putting more junk in increases the quantum probability of finding a part you need. That would be all of the best things about parts bins.  Ascent stage just blew up? Hand me that pipe, I think I can get us home.Ratzap posted:The fingers quote, now I get the name, Pak Protector - a most excellent book. And if the editor does it like that, it ain't clipping it's just untidy. Confirm everyone in the thread should catch up on their Niven reading. Footfall has a Project Orion nuclear ship in it.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:58
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ME
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Space whale holy grail
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Aug 25, 2014 21:15
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revdrkevind posted:Anything with actual resource management should be a separate mod from KAS. KAS should be a tool to help with your resource management, not another resource to have to manage. It feels like it would be pretty easy to break it into three parts: 1) Grab parts and stick them on stuff. Create certain parts via connections (pipes and struts). 2) Store grab-able things in containers (preferably hangar-style so they don't add to part count) for later use. Great for space tugs and stations. 3) Use 3d printers to make stuff which can then be attached. Break it into three or so tiers on the tree so the basic one can do struts and pipes, the medium one can do solar panels and batteries, the top tier one can do engines. If you take a look at RoverDude's other mods the 'complex but still simple' resource model is pretty well baked into them already. Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to build this into a module that could be added on to MKS/OKS pretty easily. With EPL, MKS, and KAOS (please please use that name) all together you can use various in-situ workshop modules to build lots of different things at your various bases. The potential exists to completely leave Kerbin behind and that is the raddest thing.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:52
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Lord Yod posted:KAOS (please please use that name) Well he refused my incredibly reasonable suggestion of Asteroidal Resource Storage Expansion so clearly he hates fun <  >
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Aug 25, 2014 21:55
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RoverDude posted:lots of things  Glad to have you with us, you're one of the best modders this game has ever had.Platonicsolid posted:I always found KAS' storage to be a neat idea that was far too fiddly. You have to count how many of each part, and if it turns out you need an extra pipe or something, you have to run out a whole resupply mission. I'd like to see a system where it's abstracted. Have a 'small parts' or 'fiddly bits' resource, you can draw from that to get whatever you need. To resupply, just UPS over a new box of fiddly bits. Geemer posted:Please allow us to convert asteroids into this generic resource.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:56
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Lord Yod posted:
The second half of this is really key to a lot of the base building/resourcing I've done before. It lets you have a collection of landers loosely connected, filling that space between one lander and a full on permanent base. I'm not going to bother docking and mating things that are meant to be temporary.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:09
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Flagrant Abuse posted:
Guess who made a mod that already does this
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Aug 25, 2014 22:39
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I can't get this satellite contract to complete. Nodes are at 0°, Pe/Ap are within a kilometer each, it orbits in the correct direction, and all contract requirements are checked except for the one that says "Reach the designated equatorial orbit..." Other satellite contracts have completed without issue and restarting KSP had no effect. Fine Print v0.57b, 32bit KSP. What am I missing?
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Aug 25, 2014 23:01
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Fishstick posted:Guess who made a mod that already does this
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Aug 25, 2014 23:27
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Fishstick posted:Guess who made a mod that already does this Well drat. That's what I get for not checking.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:37
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Whoa, scaled-up IXS is fuckin neat http://imgur.com/a/Au99m 
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Aug 25, 2014 23:41
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Flagrant Abuse posted:Oh my god how did I never notice this. Oh right, because I only check the release forum. I really need to remember to check the WIP one too. It was released yesterday so doubly damned for not checking the release forum either I have noticed a bug though, if you use analyze on the gillie probe claw it reduces the mass of the asteroid by a few tonnes until you swap away and back. You can get negative masses this way (and KSP does not like it).For name I'd nominate: FreeKAS (pronouced "freak rear end")
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Aug 25, 2014 23:50
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Ratzap posted:It was released yesterday so doubly damned for not checking the release forum either
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Aug 26, 2014 00:09
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Maxmaps just hire RoverDude already.
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Aug 26, 2014 00:56
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I just wanna preserve homeboy in amber so he forever stays this likable.
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Aug 26, 2014 00:58
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You can bring him out to create new content and fix existing content and then put him back in stasis.
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Aug 26, 2014 01:03
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Nah, just stick a needle in the amber, draw out some juicy DNA, mix it with a bit of Frog DNA, clone and presto!
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Aug 26, 2014 01:04
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RoverDude posted:Yep... and I can finally use all of the tier 1/2/3 resources in MKS and add them to CRP, along with a tier 4 of the really fiddly bits. So the config to load these in would just be a matter of defining the recipe to make them, and when you right click on the printer thingie you see what recipes you can make. Yeah... I think I know what I'm building next.. Personally, I'd rather not see a hard dependency on MKS, or have that many resources. I'd suggest having two modes: a one-resource mode that just uses Karbonite, and a multi-resource mode that activates if MKS is installed. Have a config file override to let someone running MKS revert to one-resource mode if they want. Then have your multi-resource config, but then just set a Karbonite-equivalence amount for each resource to compute the one-resource mode cost for parts.
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Aug 26, 2014 01:13
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I still like the ability to keep some parts in a box, and not have to worry about huge 3D printer parts and the power supplies etc etc for them - parts in a box are great for the early/midgame and have saved a lot of my missions.
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Aug 26, 2014 01:40
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Ok so here is the plan. I'm starting with just getting grabbing stuff to work. After that, I'm going down the route of printable parts based on a single generic resource. Oh... and this will probably not be nearly as brisk as my other endeavours since I am basically starting from scratch to prevent anyone getting all silly about accusing me of 'stealing' anything. I will probably do stupid things when I try this, so if any folks more clever than me want to help me test and idiot proof it, that would rock
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Aug 26, 2014 02:00
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Lansdowne posted:I can't get this satellite contract to complete. Nodes are at 0°, Pe/Ap are within a kilometer each, it orbits in the correct direction, and all contract requirements are checked except for the one that says "Reach the designated equatorial orbit..." Other satellite contracts have completed without issue and restarting KSP had no effect. Fine Print v0.57b, 32bit KSP. This is a known issue. I finally discovered the cause yesterday. 0.57b added argument of periapsis checks in addition to LAN checks on your rotation. LAN checks under 1 inclination are skipped. Argument of periapsis checks under 0.05 eccentricity are skipped. Unfortunately I glazed over rule 3 of orbits with zero inclination: they have undefined argument of periapsis, because argument of periapsis is based on LAN. For now, force it complete. I'd like to say the fix is simply skipping the argument of periapsis check when I skip the LAN check, but it isn't that easy. If I did that, you could still match orbits in wildly different directions. I'm going to investigate this tonight. If you didn't understand a word I just said, I know what the problem is, and I'm working on it.
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Aug 26, 2014 02:27
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shovelbum posted:I still like the ability to keep some parts in a box, and not have to worry about huge 3D printer parts and the power supplies etc etc for them - parts in a box are great for the early/midgame and have saved a lot of my missions. My original intent with the 3D printing suggestion was that the parts would be about as light and compact as KAS's boxes, and have only a minimal power requirement. The point is to have abstract "containers" that pull from a generic resource, instead of fiddly individual part counts, and 3D printing is a way to theme that in a roughly "realistic" way. I would put the gameplay first, not try to actually represent 3D printing realistically. Arsonide posted:I'd like to say the fix is simply skipping the argument of periapsis check when I skip the LAN check, but it isn't that easy. If I did that, you could still match orbits in wildly different directions. I'm going to investigate this tonight. I think the answer is, during the comparison, to convert the LAN and AoP of the target and current orbits to their respective Longitudes of Periapsis, which is just the sum of LAN and AoP (modulo 360). That way, no matter what arbitrary LAN and AoP KSP comes up with for that 0 inclination orbit, you can match it sensibly with the target orbit.
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Aug 26, 2014 02:45
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RoverDude posted:Ok so here is the plan. I'm not particularly clever but I do want to say that you're doing amazing work, I'm glad you're around to counter-balance lovely modding attitudes.
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Aug 26, 2014 02:49
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