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I'll admit my point isn't as philosophically clear as I act when I'm presenting it. But I stand by the basic premise that everything has an "objective" value and a subjective value. Without some kind of reasonableness touchstone, you can use the subjective value of something to justify ANY expense. You need an external value of what you're purchasing to have some kind of basis for comparison between your options. Otherwise, you're making purely emotional decisions. I prefer to call this external standard an "objective value." Alternatively, it could be the "community subjective value" standard, which would mostly be defined by where we'd all spend the money if we were confronted with that choice. Economics, as I understand the study, is really about the processes that define community subjective values and how they interrelate. The value of safety is difficult to define, mostly because it's gut-wrenching to consider when talking about your life (or, holy poo poo, your kids' lives) but there has to be a value somewhere. If our purpose in this thread is to identify choices we generally agree are outside of our community standards, then I guess this is still one of those gray areas. But if our purpose was to prove that this topic isn't funny anymore, then yes, we accomplished that. FAke Edit: Cooking with sea salt was a proxy for subjective quality of life compared to a known increase in cost. It is an example intentionally rooted in terms intended to make it appear ridiculously negligible to anybody else. I even said it was hyperbole when I used it.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:56
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Bugamol posted:This is the weirdest statement so far in the thread. Someone proclaiming that other's should "learn to drive", that additional safety driving features are a joke, and then immediately follows it up with "I've been in tons of at fault accidents!". This thread took a weird turn today. My point was that more modern safety features aren't that useful. Get a car with decent safety ratings, and have good car control. Skid courses are an excellent suggestion. I probably should have posted after having coffee this morning tho, it could have been more concise and clear! Automotive & bad with money: friends bosses car died. So he bought a Mazda 626, which has known tranny issues. His winds up having tranny issues nearly immediately! So his wife bought him a present, a 2014 Sentra! They're so broke he (this doesn't even make sense but it is what it is) files his W4 with the lowest withholding possible, ends up owing the IRS, and then gets on a payment plan cuz he thinks it's cheaper than paying more payroll deductions? Makes no sense to me! SiGmA_X fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 21:11
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SiGmA_X posted:More non stop car talk When you said you hit a tree I assumed at least one of them was at fault. This thread has landed into the typical BFC norm: Live in a box Eat rice and beans Walk to work Use a gym to shower Spending more than the absolute minimum on things is stupid and you're stupid!
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Aug 25, 2014 21:18
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Folly posted:"community subjective value" standard Rent is a common expense most people are aware of right? Ask 100 people "how much should you spend on rent". Let me know what "community subjective value" standard you get.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:23
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Bugamol posted:When you said you hit a tree I assumed at least one of them was at fault. Pretty much =/ I define "bad with money" as "can't afford poo poo." If someone want to light their fireplace with $100 bills every night, I'm not going to call that bad with money if they're financially stable, debt free and can comfortably afford to use cash as kindling.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:25
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Bugamol posted:Rent is a common expense most people are aware of right? Ask 100 people "how much should you spend on rent". Let me know what "community subjective value" standard you get.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:02
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moana posted:Um, this is pretty clear, 25-33% of income is what everybody recommends so your example is kinda lovely. Bugamol, if you hate BFC so much, why do you still post here all the time? Seems like a good way to get an ulcer. But it's not this simple. There was literally a 3 page derail in another thread on this. You'll spend more if you live in a big city. You'll spend less if you live in the country. It depends on how much you want to commute. It depends on what country you live in. EDIT: I don't hate BFC. I hate the "everyone should have the same values as me" hivemind.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:07
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Everyone in this thread is bad with money, since you're all posting about cars and wasting time, and time is money.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:14
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I subjectively value arguing on the internet at $500/hour, so I'm getting rich just by posting!
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Aug 25, 2014 22:16
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Cicero posted:I subjectively value arguing on the internet at $500/hour There's a ton of evidence that many people feel this way.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:22
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ReverendCode posted:I will sell you a bullet proof vest for $1 million. It is for safety, so the price is irrelevant, even if you probably will never need the vest. I would buy a $1 million bullet proof vest if I was in the middle of a firefight in Iraq. Are you telling me that in the same situation an OSHA actuary would turn it down because his disability-adjusted life-years remaining are too low to justify the cost? Please. "A life" has some dollar value associated with it on paper as it regards product liability and health care costs etc. "Your life", on the other hand, has infinite value to you, objectively. You would have to be an idiot to mix the two up.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:30
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Folly posted:Without some kind of reasonableness touchstone, you can use the subjective value of something to justify ANY expense. Yes, with the arguable exception of purely self-defeating actions like get-rich-quick schemes that impoverish the schemer. But in some cases people's weird spending habits are at least funny, which no one outside of BFC has ever said of someone of comfortable means buying a recently manufactured car based largely on its safety record. Folly posted:Alternatively, it could be the "community subjective value" standard, which would mostly be defined by where we'd all spend the money if we were confronted with that choice. Is that standard (if we need it at all) really "NHTSA calculations made for regulatory purposes, not necessarily as a codification of existing consumer preference, as subject to interpretation by Folly"? Dickensian Aspect fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 22:31
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Can you sperglords quit trying to determine what constitutes bad with money and post some loving stories of people cashing out their 401ks to invest in vitamins or something? I'm off work sick and you guys are worse than my sore throat, Jesus
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Aug 25, 2014 23:00
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NancyPants posted:Can you sperglords quit trying to determine what constitutes bad with money and post some loving stories of people cashing out their 401ks to invest in vitamins or something? Coworker of mine has gone onto short term disability to get...lap band surgery. She did a bunch of crying to HR and pulling strings and somehow got approved. Of course, that's only 60% pay for six weeks because she doesn't know how to stop shoving food into her mouth. And I'm not fat shaming either. She's my coworker, I see the way she eats. She doesn't know how to stop shoving food into her god drat mouth.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:16
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My sister "just finished paying off her Tempurpedic" and posted on FB that she was trying to sell it for $2k because she's moving out of the country.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:28
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My wife just got introduced to a friend of her friend. She  "Hey, I'm hosting a party at my house Saturday night. Please come!" "That sounds great! Thanks for the invite, but my sister-in-law is in town this weekend, so I can't make it.""Bring her along too!""Oh, I don't want to impose. Plus, I'm not sure what she has already planned""No imposition at all! It's going to be great! We're going to be sharing an incredible opportunity and a fantastic sale on these essential oils and weight loss supplements!""...."This woman will not shut up about her stupid MLM schemes. My wife's poor sister has to buy that crap all the time. She's on an overseas assignment with her husband in the military, and there's a huge social pressure among the officer's wives that everyone goes to each other's stupid candle/kitchen/oils/makeup/purse/whatever MLM party. Half of them participate only out of social obligation and buy the cheapest token thing. It's ridiculous, but buying a $20 candle every couple months is the cost of "being involved" over there.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:56
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 Almost a dollar/mile in just depreciation. Edit: From the same thread, different person 
Kastivich fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 01:14
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canyoneer posted:My wife just got introduced to a friend of her friend. She
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Aug 26, 2014 01:14
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http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/2ejbzg/getting_married_to_sombody_with_a_lot_of_debt/quote:I'm currently engaged, and my fiance has a mountain of debt from a failed business venture with a past boyfriend. I purchased a home recently and am concerned that her past debt may come back to bite me. Is there any way that her creditors can come after me or my house for debt that she incurred prior to us getting married? This is in the state of California and her debt is not government debt, if that helps. Thanks for your advice in advance!
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Aug 26, 2014 01:27
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Bugamol posted:When you said you hit a tree I assumed at least one of them was at fault. I think there's just a portion of bfc who are poors, and the thought of someone being able to afford to drop $300 on sunnies or drive a nonshitbox or whatever literally blows their minds. The cognitive dissonance then causes them to lash out at the grownups instead of realizing "wow im loving poor".
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Aug 26, 2014 02:42
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:To get away from Carchat (Well, this is still carchat), everyone bear witness: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3368604&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=26#post433546456 (props to throatwarbler in the AI/BFC car thread) NOTinuyasha posted:I hereby invoke YOLO and will see myself out. The proper way to blow off AI/BFC advice. It would have worked better if he hadn't posted twice after to tell people that he isn't poor but reading stupid defenses of stupid decisions is still fun. Also: NOTinuyasha posted:Hello thread, I don't think I've been here in a few months, I did some stupid poo poo this summer and I'm in the process of tapering off Xanax. I'm dizzy and getting little miniature brain zaps but I don't think I was taking stupid amounts for a long enough to make withdrawal that much of a hell.
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Aug 26, 2014 03:04
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"Can we just pretend to get married for our parents? I'd rather not seal the deal b/c ur poor lol "It worked for the homos!"
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Aug 26, 2014 03:17
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NancyPants posted:Can you sperglords quit trying to determine what constitutes bad with money and post some loving stories of people cashing out their 401ks to invest in vitamins or something? Maybe if you'd invested more in vitamins, you could be working and earning, son.
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Aug 26, 2014 04:15
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Zo posted:I think there's just a portion of bfc who are poors, and the thought of someone being able to afford to drop $300 on sunnies or drive a nonshitbox or whatever literally blows their minds. The cognitive dissonance then causes them to lash out at the grownups instead of realizing "wow im loving poor". What is this poo poo? And that non- wedding story seems more good with money but terrible at relationships, although he did mention he just bought a house and seems to know nothing about how debt works...
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Aug 26, 2014 04:35
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Mister Nobody posted:What is this poo poo? The gently caress if I know. If people want to spend money then great, just don't buy your $300 sunnies on a credit card and repay it at $5 a month.
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Aug 26, 2014 06:04
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Zo posted:I think there's just a portion of bfc who are poors, and the thought of someone being able to afford to drop $300 on sunnies or drive a nonshitbox or whatever literally blows their minds. The cognitive dissonance then causes them to lash out at the grownups instead of realizing "wow im loving poor". You must have some sort of mental disorder to have reached this conclusion because this thread is chock full of stories of people living way beyond their means and making horrible financial decisions. Hence the thread title. Seriously, no one gives a poo poo about Mr. CEO buying a separate yatch for each day of the week.
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Aug 26, 2014 06:47
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enraged_camel posted:You must have some sort of mental disorder to have reached this conclusion because this thread is chock full of stories of people living way beyond their means and making horrible financial decisions. Hence the thread title. You're right, almost every post has been about that kind of CEO yacht bull-poo poo. Or none, whichever works for you.
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Aug 26, 2014 06:52
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enraged_camel posted:You must have some sort of mental disorder to have reached this conclusion because this thread is chock full of stories of people living way beyond their means and making horrible financial decisions. Hence the thread title. Where did I say those stories weren't being posted either? Please read more carefully  Also you're kind of retarded to equate expensive sunglasses with "ceo yatch" lmao
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Aug 26, 2014 07:07
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask / Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > :ralp:
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Aug 26, 2014 07:31
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Yatch.
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Aug 26, 2014 10:51
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I've got a bad with money storie, although it pales in comparison to some of the others posted. I've been working as a seasonal employee for an airline. The pay and benefits completely outweigh the lack of job security ( my station hires people on seasonally before making them permanent). Among these benefits are free air travel and hotel discounts but more importantly a pretty kick rear end 401k. So we get the whole spiel from our supervisor who also sidelines as a financial adviser, she explains the importance of saving early and the benefits of compound interest. Naturally I enroll as soon as possible. Cue to a month later I get curious and ask two of the guys who started with me from day one,what percentage they are contributing. -"So what percentage are you guys contributing?" Coworker 1: " I can't spare anything man, I have to save for my wedding. (Which is in a month btw). Coworker 2: " Nah I haven't enrolled yet, Il do it when I get made permanent (something which could take months). I mean if I get fired then I'll lose all that money." I keep trying to explain that it's only a small bit of change to reach the matching, that they lose more by not contributing at all and that it's almost impossible to lose that money, but they are terrified of seeing deductions on their paycheck. Really it's just that financial education is so piss poor in my country that you're weird if you're not burdened with a car payment, a mortgage and at least one child support payment by the time you are 20. It's not even hyperbole I know like 30 people who are in the exact same situation if not worse. Mister Nobody fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 11:40
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Wait there are people who call sunglasses "sunnies?". Is that a real thing or ironic or what because  On topic: my friend doesn't invest in his 401k or his IRA despite having Vanguard institutional funds in the 401k. He "just trades options" in taxable accounts because "either you pay taxes on it now or later. I don't have a 401k match so there's no benefit to me."  He's a smart guy and I've tried pointing him to the Buffet "worst market timer server" story and Four Pillars but I give up. He's convinced he's going to win at the slots. He's also convinced there are mutual funds that continually outperform the market.
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Aug 26, 2014 12:41
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Though I can guess what it's about, I don't think I've actually heard the story you mention and a cursory google is coming up dry. Do you happen to have a link?
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Aug 26, 2014 13:04
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Nail Rat posted:Wait there are people who call sunglasses "sunnies?". Is that a real thing or ironic or what because It's an Australian thing at least, we like using any noun in a diminuitive form.
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Aug 26, 2014 13:34
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Nail Rat posted:Wait there are people who call sunglasses "sunnies?". Is that a real thing or ironic or what because 
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Aug 26, 2014 13:40
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P.D.B. Fishsticks posted:Though I can guess what it's about, I don't think I've actually heard the story you mention and a cursory google is coming up dry. Do you happen to have a link? I was wrong, it was Greenspan, but here: http://awealthofcommonsense.com/worlds-worst-market-timer/
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Aug 26, 2014 14:38
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This in general is bad with money, but I also have a specific question and this seems as good a topic to post it in. I was home alone (Ontario, Canada) with my hungry twin toddlers when a guy came to the door passing himself off as someone with my current energy provider. He wanted to see my bill because on the chance that I was being billed improperly, and distracted as I was I stupidly showed him. As soon as he started talking about how I could save I wised up that he was with an energy retailer (Just Energy Conservation Program) I took back my bill, took his pamphlet and sent him on his way (not signing anything, obviously). Then I did some Googling on JE and wow, what a nightmare. For those not in the know, JE tries to get you to sign over with them so that you get a flat rate on energy (electricity and gas) with the vague promise of savings because "hey prices go up!" while at the same time throwing in a lot of nonsense about green energy and reducing energy usage to lower costs. While it might work out most of the blogs were full of people who ended up paying way more a month than they were before. Add to this their sleazy at-the-door effort to pass themselves off as anything other than an energy retailer. I realize it was the height of stupid to show him the bill - the twins were hungry and off-the-wall and I just wanted the guy gone. I didn't see him write the account number down, but it doesn't mean he didn't memorize it. And their were stories of unscrupulous agents who would forge your signature and sign you up regardless (I didn't get that vibe - he was just a kid - but who knows?). I tried calling my current energy provider to block the account, but they said they could not as it would be legal to move the account over (assuming I had legally signed and agreed to the deal). If they do manage to sign me up I would have to fight it with the Ontario Energy Board. The representative I talked to didn't seem worried, as there is also the step of having to confirm with JE that I do want them as a provider (which I would obviously decline). I guess my question is: is there anything else I can do? I'm not super worried, and I guess if push comes to shove and they do illegally sign me up I can fight it, but if there is something easy to do to head off this fraud at the pass I'd do it.
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Aug 26, 2014 14:55
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Nail Rat posted:He's also convinced there are mutual funds that continually outperform the market. I hope he has it all in PTRAX!
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Aug 26, 2014 15:13
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Aagar posted:This in general is bad with money, but I also have a specific question and this seems as good a topic to post it in. Gas contracts and rented water heaters are the biggest racket in Ontario. I worked in a call centre that dealt with water heater rentals and the lengths each company would go to to switch customers was unbelievable. It does NOT help that Enbridge lets other companies use their bill for services, and people are too stupid to flip to the last page of the bill now and then to see what they're actually paying for. You bought a house 15 years ago and didn't realize it had a rental water heater, but you've been paying it the entire time? You want a refund? No. I consider rented water heaters bad with money. $25 a month for a stable product that needs to be changed every 10+ years or so. It is way cheaper to just buy a new one and have it installed.
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Aug 26, 2014 15:34
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VodeAndreas posted:It's an Australian thing at least, we like using any noun in a diminuitive form. I can't decide if sunnie is worse than using "brekkie" for breakfast.
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Aug 26, 2014 15:50
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