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ImpAtom posted:Yes we do. She's screaming and breathing fire in a rage, attacking wildly and when she's about to die she looks up at her dad like she isn't sure she is seeing him. (and only really clearly realizes he's alive once the poison is removed.) "During the fight" is a pretty key set of words there. As soon as Korra collapsed after catching Zaheer's foot with water the fight was over.
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Aug 26, 2014 23:57
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Kibayasu posted:Even knowing that Korra is poisoned and that she no longer has access to the past lives of the Avatar wasn't quite enough to clear up that disconnect. It didn't ruin anything for me but I have to acknowledge it can exist. The Aang vs. Ozai fight is, in the first half, a little boy against a towering human inferno, who struggles to survive while refusing to land a killing blow, despite getting the opportunity. In the second half, we see the souls and powers of a hundred men and women embodied in this twelve year old boy, as they prepare to use his body to enact divine vengeance. The tension comes from whether or not Aang will regain control in time, which he does with no time to spare. It is only the fact that is will is strong enough to overcome 100 generations of righteous fury that he is able to take Ozai's bending. This is what the battle is about : the ultimate test of Aang's soul. It wasn't about the bending, it was about the characters. The same is true of Korra fighting Zaheer. Korra, unlike Aang, does not have the past lives controlling her. She is Korra, chasing down the man she believes to have murdered her father. She is driven by rage alone, her style the exact opposite of Aang's before he enters the Avatar State. She is prepared to kill. Her complete lack of inner-peace, caused by the poisoning of her body and her soul, means that she cannot win this fight. Zaheer, however, has detached himself from the earth, literally and figuratively. He is nigh-untouchable, physically and spiritually. It is only a tornado, formed by collective will of the New Air Nation, led by Jinora, that brings him down. It is only that embodiment of what is wrong with Zaheer's philosophy, the irrefutable fact that leadership and teamwork are essential to success, that defeats him, both in battle and philosophically. That is the point of the scene. Not whether or not Korra is stronger than Aang, but rather whether or not many on the ground are greater than One Who Has Ascended. Both battles are about souls and ideals and what victory actually is beyond beating the other guy in a fight. This shared emotional core is why the visual similarities between the two battles feel right and earned, rather than cheap and desperate like, for example a dozen of the scenes in the Star Wars prequels that mirror scenes from the Original Trilogy on the most superficial level. You may think I'm being an idiot sperg about kids cartoons, but dj_clawson has already shown the vast amount of effort the show's creators put into showing real-world Eastern Cultures, and there's no reason to think they wouldn't apply the same effort and care to thematic storytelling. And really, it's ideas and depth like this that made us love the original series so much, and why this finale has made us so happy that we can love Korra again.
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Aug 26, 2014 23:59
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I got the impression she could use the avatar state to cleanse the mercury, but doing that while fighting Zaheer is a bit of a challenge. Also I loved the final battle scene just because we got to see how Korra just goes all loving out, unlike Aang who's all about finesse.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:00
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Really, pretty much any bending style allows you to do any number of instantaneously lethal things that a.) you can't show on TV and b.) would make every fight like three seconds long, so I'm not really convinced "why don't they just do X!!!" is a very useful question to be asking.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:03
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TheModernAmerican posted:I got the impression she could use the avatar state to cleanse the mercury, but doing that while fighting Zaheer is a bit of a challenge. She might not be able to. I don't think we've ever seen any serious example of someone healing themselves with bending and extracting a whole bunch of mercury-poison from within herself as a novice metalbender might not be something even an Avatar can do. Have we actually seen waterbenders heal themselves at any point, for that matter? It always seems like they're healing others but can they effectively drop themselves in a pool of water and help themselves on their own?
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Aug 27, 2014 00:04
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ImpAtom posted:She might not be able to. I don't think we've ever seen any serious example of someone healing themselves with bending and extracting a whole bunch of mercury-poison from within herself as a novice metalbender might not be something even an Avatar can do. Didn't Katara first discover her healing powers when her hands were burned?
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Aug 27, 2014 00:08
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ImpAtom posted:She might not be able to. I don't think we've ever seen any serious example of someone healing themselves with bending and extracting a whole bunch of mercury-poison from within herself as a novice metalbender might not be something even an Avatar can do.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:10
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Rincewind posted:Really, pretty much any bending style allows you to do any number of instantaneously lethal things that a.) you can't show on TV and b.) would make every fight like three seconds long, so I'm not really convinced "why don't they just do X!!!" is a very useful question to be asking. It's not useful, which is why in my own posts I said that nothing ruined anything about the finale for me. It's not that I don't understand the symbolism behind Jinora and the new air benders being the one to ultimately defeat Zaheer just that there is a bit of a practical disconnect between what we've seen the Avatar state can do in TLA and what we've seen it do in LoK. Practicality, however, should never trump good storytelling (unless practicality is the point). ImpAtom posted:She might not be able to. I don't think we've ever seen any serious example of someone healing themselves with bending and extracting a whole bunch of mercury-poison from within herself as a novice metalbender might not be something even an Avatar can do. Katara healed her own burned hands but... no, I don't think we have.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:10
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Spergatory posted:Fixed that for you. OK?
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Aug 27, 2014 00:12
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TheModernAmerican posted:I got the impression she could use the avatar state to cleanse the mercury, but doing that while fighting Zaheer is a bit of a challenge. I thought about this before, and I think it would have been a way cooler fight if Korra was simultaneously fighting Zaheer while trying to cleanse the poison. It would have shown her intelligence (recognizing that the poison was metallic) and added a little suspense by forcing her to hide from Zaheer while doing it. And by succeeding, she would be able to beat down Zaheer on her own, thereby preventing any haters from arguing that she isn't badass enough to win without her buddies pitching in.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:39
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Kibayasu posted:I don't want to speak for anybody but despite liking the finale a whole bunch I couldn't help thinking much of the same things myself while watching it. We've seen the Avatar state in a true "all-out-combat-gently caress-the-consequences" scene twice now and there's just a bit of a disconnect between what we saw the first time and what we saw the second time. I never really got the sense that Ozai was that special of a bender. At least not compared to Azula or Iroh.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:44
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:I never really got the sense that Ozai was that special of a bender. At least not compared to Azula or Iroh. Iroh wasn't sure he could've beaten him, all of his relatives were experts, and with the importance of ritual dueling in their society, it's possible that being a master is a prerequisite for holding office, but it's true that they didn't really show Ozai fighting until the finale.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:51
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:I never really got the sense that Ozai was that special of a bender. At least not compared to Azula or Iroh. Insta-lightning is a good giveaway that he's special.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:51
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TheModernAmerican posted:I did find it unfortunately appropriate that we started and ended the most serious episode with peak awkward Bolin comic relief. The sock and bird call scenes were so horribly out of place, though the sock on did do exactly what I've wanted someone to do to Zaheer since day one.
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Aug 27, 2014 00:56
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Mako had a moment near the end of season one that went like "Bolin shut up, this isn't a good time" Maybe we'll see that again.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:00
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I like the comic relief stuff for the most part, but the writers really need to learn when a joke is done and needs to stop. Usually Bolin's stuff hits a decent punchline and then just keeps dragging it on way too long for some reason.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:01
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Bolin's writer is autistic or something, it's the only explanation for 
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Aug 27, 2014 01:03
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Probably his voice actor improvising in the booth.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:04
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Jackard posted:Bolin's writer is autistic or something, it's the only explanation for I think even something as dumb as the bird call joke could have worked if he hadn't stood there squawking to demonstrate WE KNOW WHAT A BIRD CALL IS BOLIN. 
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Aug 27, 2014 01:07
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Bongo Bill posted:Probably his voice actor improvising in the booth. It's pretty hard to improvise in children's animation since you're generally under really tight time constraints and maybe even trying to match the voice acting to already animated mouth movements. No, most likely that scene is as-written.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:08
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I'm pretty sure they actually animate after the voice work. It goes script/storyboards->voiceovers->final animation/lipsyncing.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:19
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Hauldren Collider posted:I'm pretty sure they actually animate after the voice work. It goes script/storyboards->voiceovers->final animation/lipsyncing. That's generally what happens but there are occasions where voicework has to match animation, mostly if one or the other got hosed up along the way. But its not like a movie where 10 seconds of extra dialogue an actor threw in doesn't really matter that much. Sons of Anarchy might be able to wrangle an hour and a half premieres/finales to throw in some extra rape scenes or something but I don't think Korra gets quite that much leeway 
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Aug 27, 2014 01:27
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Bongo Bill posted:Probably his voice actor improvising in the booth.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:30
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I always just figured that Bolin's confidence issues just made him desperately try to oversell his jokes/ideas.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:31
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Hauldren Collider posted:I'm pretty sure they actually animate after the voice work. It goes script/storyboards->voiceovers->final animation/lipsyncing. Considering Book 4 already wrapped everything but animating it, yeah, pretty much this. Which means that they could ad-lib. For the most part, the bird noises as they came from the lava filled air temple didn't focus on his mouth, so it could have easily been ad-libbed and tossed in there.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:41
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I think you vastly underestimate the advantage that not being confined by gravity gives you in a fight with projectiles. And there's a deeper, thematic level that a lot of people are ignoring here. This is my new favorite theory.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:00
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I can agree with this, as for Ozai's power and Korra I felt like Korra was pretty darn close to being able to squash Zaheer like a bug before she ran out of steam, which fits with what SpiderHyphenMan said because the only reason Zaheer could survive and delay long enough was because of his flight. Which reminds me of something I remember about ATLA is that it always seemed to me that Katara, Toph and Aang were all pretty darn exceptional benders. Zuko actually strikes me as the odd one out, while Zuko's growth as a character enabled him to likely defeat Azula in the final agni kai I never got the impression he was anything other than above average in actual talent? The current generation and Aang's kids are interesting in that they don't strike me as being as exceptional bending prodigies though they do have their moments (Lava bending, Mako having a mastery of lightning bending).
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Aug 27, 2014 03:03
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I like Zuko because even though he isn't an exceptional bender, he devoted his life to service longer than any other character in either series.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:13
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Raenir Salazar posted:I can agree with this, as for Ozai's power and Korra I felt like Korra was pretty darn close to being able to squash Zaheer like a bug before she ran out of steam, which fits with what SpiderHyphenMan said because the only reason Zaheer could survive and delay long enough was because of his flight. Tenzin is an Airbending master with children that are, for the most part, nearly airbending masters themselves. But yes, the benders with Aang were exceptional with the exception of Zuko.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:13
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AshB posted:I like Zuko because even though he isn't an exceptional bender, he devoted his life to service longer than any other character in either series. Korra's become pretty great and all, but I want to watch The Adventures of Old Man Zuko now. He just flies around the world on his dragon, startling livestock and solving mysteries.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:24
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VanSandman posted:Tenzin is an Airbending master with children that are, for the most part, nearly airbending masters themselves. Aang was an airbending master at 12. It was implied in the show (since he was the only person his age with tattoos) and I think outright said by the writers that this was a little unusual, and that he was a prodigy, but Jinora's probably about 12 and clearly a spiritual prodigy. I don't think she could put up the same fight that Tenzin did against the Red Lotus, but "mastery" seems to be more about becoming a master of the spiritual elements of airbending, specifically meditation. (The movie said this, but I don't take that as canon)
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Aug 27, 2014 03:25
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I expect that Mako and Bolin are hampered by the fact that they (especially Bolin) still use mostly the same style that they used in pro-bending, which is established as a very different discipline with different priorities. They might start to look more impressive as they gradually acclimate to free-form combat.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:25
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dj_clawson posted:Aang was an airbending master at 12. It was implied in the show (since he was the only person his age with tattoos) and I think outright said by the writers that this was a little unusual, and that he was a prodigy, but Jinora's probably about 12 and clearly a spiritual prodigy. I don't think she could put up the same fight that Tenzin did against the Red Lotus, but "mastery" seems to be more about becoming a master of the spiritual elements of airbending, specifically meditation. (The movie said this, but I don't take that as canon) I swear I remember reading somewhere or other that one is considered an Airbending master when they create a new technique; in Aang's case, it was the Air Scooter, and Jinora's could be either that spirit projection technique or the tornado attack from the finale.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:30
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:I never really got the sense that Ozai was that special of a bender. At least not compared to Azula or Iroh. He was Iroh's brother, and most likely the person who taught Azula. He was a pretty loving good firebender, most likely the best (albeit using rage, which Iroh did not). Here's him shooting non-sozin's comet suped up lightning. 
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Aug 27, 2014 03:49
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So quick question, I want to get in on the Korra train but I was kind of turned off by The Last Airbender. Is it mandatory watching or can I just safely skip it and its early 2000s era flash animation.
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Aug 27, 2014 04:06
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:He was Iroh's brother, and most likely the person who taught Azula. He was a pretty loving good firebender, most likely the best (albeit using rage, which Iroh did not). Here's him shooting non-sozin's comet suped up lightning. Maybe later on but Azula was trained by some other guy for a while until she got him banished. Then Lo and Li seemed to be teachers in some capacity despite not being benders. Eej posted:So quick question, I want to get in on the Korra train but I was kind of turned off by The Last Airbender. Is it mandatory watching or can I just safely skip it and its early 2000s era flash animation. What turned you off about the first show?
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Aug 27, 2014 04:10
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Eej posted:So quick question, I want to get in on the Korra train but I was kind of turned off by The Last Airbender. Is it mandatory watching or can I just safely skip it and its early 2000s era flash animation. This would be kind of like reading The Lord of the Rings without reading The Hobbit. They're related stories that take place in the same universe, and if you observe the first series, it clues you into a lot of things when you get into the second series. You can still catch the second series without having seen the first, but you miss a lot of context that would make the series even better.
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Aug 27, 2014 04:13
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Yeah, Korra's definitely a different show but it still deals with similar stuff (saving the world from some big bad, martial arts with the elements, interpersonal kid/teen drama).
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Aug 27, 2014 04:20
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Eej posted:So quick question, I want to get in on the Korra train but I was kind of turned off by The Last Airbender. Is it mandatory watching or can I just safely skip it and its early 2000s era flash animation. I can think of a couple of justifiable reasons for disliking Airbender's first season, but its animation quality is absolutely not one of them.
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Aug 27, 2014 04:22
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Argue posted:I can think of a couple of justifiable reasons for disliking Airbender's first season, but its animation quality is absolutely not one of them. I wasn't a big fan of season 1 until they reached the North Pole, but TLA is worth it for watching Korra.
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Aug 27, 2014 04:24
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