|
Afraid of Audio posted:What the gently caress is this post. Doobie's Doghouse Pt. 2
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 11:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 16:43 |
|
|
Jobbo_Fett posted:So what you're saying is her videos would come out a lot faster if she watched LP's? We'll start her off with the entire collection of pewdiepie LP's and then move onto DSP. They're the best way to experience a game along with "gamer" culture.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 11:51
|
|
|
Golden Goat posted:We'll start her off with the entire collection of pewdiepie LP's and then move onto DSP. They're the best way to experience a game along with "gamer" culture. You should do it the other way around, because it's best to start from the bottom and work your way up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 12:25
|
|
|
Onean posted:Maybe it's just me, but it seems there's a hell of a lot more interesting female protagonists, sexualised or not, in anime than there is in gaming.* To me it's more important that the character is interesting than whether or not they're sexualized. Just off the top of my head for stand-out characters (no guarantee of quality or fan-service free) there's Madoka, Nanoha, Hidamari Sketch, Soul Eater and more. For gaming I've got some of the recent versions of the Mario princesses, Cloudbuilt, a few Dawngate characters and it's taken me twice as long to come up with fewer characters. Yeah, I'm gonna call this one a "trap sprung"
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 13:33
|
|
|
Eh, whatever. I almost left it alone, but I figured what the hell. I've seen so much crap thrown around about anime that I figured a post in favor was about due.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 13:42
|
|
|
Suspicious Dish posted:Yeah, I'm gonna call this one a "trap sprung" I don't know what you're talking about, he's just mentioning some of anime's strongest female characters
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 14:26
|
|
|
Rita Repulsa posted:Has anyone who actually paid her ever complained that they did not get what they paid for? It always seems to be people who didn't that show concern about just how much money she was given, like they're mad that someone was given money and it wasn't them You wanna know what it really is, for the most part? A big group of people want a silver bullet. They want one big thing that'll show up Sarkeesian as a hypocrite, fraud, huckster, liar, or idiot. It's annoying to try and do point-by-point counters, so they want the one big atom bomb. So, "she stole your money? She's a con artist! Aren't you mad? Don't you feel cheated?" I think this is also why when Sarkeesian actually did (does?) use longplay footage without permission, people transmogrify it into "stealing footage from LPers" because the latter makes it sound like she's a total thief stealing from tons of content producers who may not agree with her. The nerve! The former makes her sound like someone who didn't dot their i's or cross their t's like they should've, so it's not a potentially killing blow. (Note: worldoflongplays.org says you can use their footage so long as your credit their site or the longplayer in your video or description. They sorta complained that Sarkeesian didn't do that when someone pointed it out, but didn't follow up any further - possibly to avoid drama.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 14:34
|
|
|
Golden Goat posted:I don't know what you're talking about, he's just mentioning some of anime's strongest female characters Compared to the majority of women in gaming? You bet. Compared to women in other media, or even anime itself, sure, you've got me there. Good job.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 14:37
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:You wanna know what it really is, for the most part? A big group of people want a silver bullet. Her stealing footage is bad and she shouldn't have done it. Her response to it was even more disappointing. It has nothing to do with the feminist points she's making, and it doesn't invalidate them. I want to have a great discussion about feminist tropes in video games. I want the AAA games industry to stop building terrible, cheap sex-appeal, male-driven fantasy material. I don't think Sarkeesian is the best moderator of that discussion, though. I don't hate her, her personality, or anything like that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 14:53
|
|
|
I just want to play good video games and/or watch videos of people playing good video games.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 15:03
|
|
|
Onean posted:Compared to the majority of women in gaming? You bet. Compared to women in other media, or even anime itself, sure, you've got me there. Good job. Sorry I was joking, it was just when I looked up the first three anime characters you mentioned they were all what looks like generic underage anime girls and I couldn't resist poking fun at that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 15:05
|
|
|
Golden Goat posted:Sorry I was joking, it was just when I looked up the first three anime characters you mentioned they were all what looks like generic underage anime girls and I couldn't resist poking fun at that. Not to extend this derail, but that look is part of the point of at least Madoka and Nanoha, if I'm not mistaken.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 15:08
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:"stealing footage from LPers" But isn't that fair use? What are people even arguing about? They'd say it was fair use any other time, but now?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 15:11
|
|
|
Cheez posted:But isn't that fair use? What are people even arguing about? They'd say it was fair use any other time, but now? Not when you've made money off of it/didn't give them any credit. Pretty sure Fair Use doesn't cover money involved.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 15:15
|
|
|
Dias posted:Not to extend this derail, but that look is part of the point of at least Madoka and Nanoha, if I'm not mistaken. Back on the Anita and stolen Longplay footage discussion: although it would have added more work to the pile she really should have done recordings of her playing the games. If only to stop the crazy anit-Anita gang from pointing fingers and saying "she's never played the games she's discussing".
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 15:16
|
|
|
Zain posted:Not when you've made money off of it/didn't give them any credit. Pretty sure Fair Use doesn't cover money involved. Well, she didn't make money from the videos, right? She got money to make the videos, but the content isn't monetized as far as I'm aware. Plus, LPers complaining about using someone else's product to make money is kinda silly...
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 15:16
|
|
|
Zain posted:Not when you've made money off of it/didn't give them any credit. Pretty sure Fair Use doesn't cover money involved. Yes it does, as long at it is transformative work. Money is not a factor. Here is a long discussion from an actual lawyer about it you can read, with SA involved and all. http://www.popehat.com/2012/07/06/cartoonist-donna-barstow-engages-in-modern-online-version-of-hey-guys-watch-this/ edit: and this is avoiding the can of worms that is claiming copyright on non-commented playthroughs of games in full. To be fair I think she should have attributed Cubex55, but that is a question of good tone, not some boring legal discussion. Azraelle fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Aug 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 15:21
|
|
|
Golden Goat posted:Sorry I was joking, it was just when I looked up the first three anime characters you mentioned they were all what looks like generic underage anime girls and I couldn't resist poking fun at that. Nah, the thing is while they are okay examples, they're far from the best. They were just the ones I came up with off the top of my head. Better examples would be the women from Rideback, Ghost in the Shell and Black Lagoon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 15:30
|
|
|
Suspicious Dish posted:Her stealing footage is bad and she shouldn't have done it. Her response to it was even more disappointing. It has nothing to do with the feminist points she's making, and it doesn't invalidate them. (She had a response?) I agree, and this goes along with what I was getting at.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 16:23
|
|
|
Dias posted:Well, she didn't make money from the videos, right? She got money to make the videos, but the content isn't monetized as far as I'm aware. Plus, LPers complaining about using someone else's product to make money is kinda silly... Look, DSP spelled it out really clearly. He owns the rights because his playthroughs are unique to him and thus owns the content in it. But on the topic of fair use and parody. Dumb Starbucks which is a fine line of a mess. Zain fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 16:29
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:(She had a response?) It's kinda hard to find info on her response but one artist sent a letter to her regarding the use of one of her pictures in the FF logo/poster. Here's that artists blog and a (very messy) blog post about Anita's response here Anita posted:“remixed collage is transformative in nature and as such constitutes a fair use of any copyrighted material as provided for under section 107 of the US Copyright law” It's impossible to find out if anybody who did longplays contacted her as searching on this brings up 500 pages of "Fraud exposed".
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 16:48
|
|
|
Zain posted:But on the topic of fair use and parody. Dumb Starbucks which is a fine line of a mess. quote:In this instance, it is "evaluating next steps," according to a statement emailed to USA Today. "While we appreciate the humour, they cannot use our name, which is a protected trademark." At least they were in good spirits about it. I think this is a fair enough way for them to put it. I mean they could've been like "You have the word Starbucks in the name so it's OURS ALL OURS TAKE IT DOWN OR YOUR MORTGAGE IS FORFEIT" but they didn't do that. Or at least, they didn't phrase it like that. edit: Regardless, I think using fair use to hide behind not having to credit someone makes you a dick. I don't know what ever came of Dumb Starbucks so I dunno if it's an example of that or not, but still. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Aug 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 16:49
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:(She had a response?) I agree, and this goes along with what I was getting at. Her response was "fair use, bitches. I don't have to credit you at all, according to the law". Which isn't the way to get on somebody's good side. Fair use is already a giant legal gray area (which is exactly what it's designed to be), but I don't really care about the legality of it. It's the fact that she was just a dick about it. She was caught using somebody else's work, and then doubled-down on it instead of adding a YouTube annotation or a few lines in the description.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 16:53
|
|
|
Golden Goat posted:
On the whole, most artists don't care if you use their work, but they wish to be credited. I think that's all that longplays.org asks of people, too. Lots of pixiv artists now no longer use that site anymore because so many people either tried to pass off their original work as their own, or they considered linking to the original artist too much work.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 16:59
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:(Note: worldoflongplays.org says you can use their footage so long as your credit their site or the longplayer in your video or description. They sorta complained that Sarkeesian didn't do that when someone pointed it out, but didn't follow up any further - possibly to avoid drama.) If I remember correctly per fair use, she could use that footage anyway without stating what channel she got it from as it's related to the game and not the LP. Zain posted:Not when you've made money off of it/didn't give them any credit. Pretty sure Fair Use doesn't cover money involved. Fair Use certainly allows you to make money off of new work using someone elses subject. She's not 1:1 copying the video and just uploading it to her channel, she's using it as an example of a discussion pertaining to that section. She's not even talking about the LP, but the root content the LP is basing itself off of, the game, which the LPer has no rights to. If anything, the game studios would be the ones to file complaints to her. The use of the game footage though, in the format she's using it in, is as far as I know still well within Fair Use. Mekchu fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Aug 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 18:32
|
|
|
Kay Kessler posted:On the whole, most artists don't care if you use their work, but they wish to be credited. I think that's all that longplays.org asks of people, too. Lots of pixiv artists now no longer use that site anymore because so many people either tried to pass off their original work as their own, or they considered linking to the original artist too much work. poo poo, even tumblr of all places made it against their rules to post stuff without adding the artist's name to it too. BMS posted:Wait wait wait, whoa. Are you loving kidding me? You missed a whoooooole lotta poo poo dude. Main reason it even got so much traffic was because pissants decided to pull the 'triple-down on out making GBS threads each other on being awful people on the internet' and normal sane people were like 'What? gently caress that, I'm gonna give her money to spite those psychos! What the gently caress compels you to make a Facebeating game of this person because you don't like them saying 'the Games industry might be poo poo and here's why' Tetracube posted:More from "The Sarkeesian Effect" Hey slowbeef, that kinda counts as a part of what you said too. slowbeef posted:You wanna know what it really is, for the most part? A big group of people want a silver bullet.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 18:32
|
|
|
Onean posted:Nah, the thing is while they are okay examples, they're far from the best. They were just the ones I came up with off the top of my head. Better examples would be the women from Rideback, Ghost in the Shell and Black Lagoon. There's a few in the Gundam franchise, but their general role is to be awesome for 48 episodes, then die on episode 49 for the sake of enraging the main character. I'm pretty sure if she took a good hard look at mecha or shonen series in general, her head would explode.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 18:49
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:Hey slowbeef, that kinda counts as a part of what you said too. You mean like the pro-Sarkeesian people are trying to hit this guy for including the Beat Up Anita thing, even though that alone wouldn't invalidate his point?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 18:55
|
|
|
TARDISman posted:There's a few in the Gundam franchise, but their general role is to be awesome for 48 episodes, then die on episode 49 for the sake of enraging the main character. I'm pretty sure if she took a good hard look at mecha or shonen series in general, her head would explode. Hopefully the new series will be better about that, but Gundam AGE in particular would be the lowest hanging fruit possible for criticism on handling female characters. That's a series where pretty much every female is irrelevant, incompetent, a bland love interest that exists for the sole purpose of worrying about and having kids with the protagonist, or dies for tragedy (this happens about three times). Motto fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Aug 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:At least they were in good spirits about it. I think this is a fair enough way for them to put it. I mean they could've been like "You have the word Starbucks in the name so it's OURS ALL OURS TAKE IT DOWN OR YOUR MORTGAGE IS FORFEIT" but they didn't do that. Or at least, they didn't phrase it like that. What happened was it was a bit on Nathan For You that was never actually intended to be a legitimate business/art project idea in the first place, the news just ended up picking it up and running with it like they did with the "pig saving a goat" video from the first season that accidentally went viral. The episode turned out pretty good, though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
slowbeef posted:You mean like the pro-Sarkeesian people are trying to hit this guy for including the Beat Up Anita thing, even though that alone wouldn't invalidate his point? I was more focused on how much of a scam this is that even the worst of the worst reddit subforums aren't falling for it.  
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 19:33
|
|
|
Motto posted:Hopefully the new series will be better about that, but Gundam AGE in particular would be the lowest hanging fruit possible for criticism on handling female characters. That's a series where pretty much every female is irrelevant, incompetent, a bland love interest that exists for the sole purpose of worrying about and having kids with the protagonist, or dies for tragedy (this happens about three times). If she doesn't hit AGE I'll be surprised, that series was hilariously misogynistic, even for anime.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 19:47
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PXhvFwJyHQ anime is really good
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 19:48
|
|
|
Suspicious Dish posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PXhvFwJyHQ What just even happened?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 20:03
|
|
|
Zain posted:What just even happened? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 20:08
|
|
|
Pheromones, huh.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 20:13
|
|
|
Stux posted:She asked for 6k to make a youtube series and got given 150k instead, its not like she asked for tens of thousands in the first place, and its not really like you can do much to make a youtube series more expensive without straight up wasting money. The videos are her talking to a camera with some editing to put in video game clips, pictures etc, there is not really much for the money to be used on, although its obvious she has been trying to improve them with the extra cash when comparing the production values to her older videos. Before I looked into it, I didn't realize what her initial kickstarter goals were. I just knew she got a shitload of money and hasn't put it to use, so I felt like the blame was on her for not delivering what she promised. I still don't know what the original kickstarter promised, so I don't know if she is delivering on those promises or not, but I suppose the issue here is that I'm not properly informed on any of this to pass proper judgement on how she is appropriating those funds. However, from the videos I had watched, I never felt like she was doing a good enough job presenting feminist arguments and offering up thoughtful discussion. It was more like she was reading highlights from TV Tropes without giving any genuine personal input. I mean, it's great that there's a prominent figure out there getting attention for feminism in gaming, and even doing a little is a lot, but I feel like she could be doing more than she is, and I get frustrated by that. It's like, whether she meant to or not, she's become the representative for change in the industry. You think of her when you think of a feminist voice in gaming. So you turn to her as go "Hey Anita, what do you think?" and she does her best Jerry Seinfeld and responds "What's the deal with Mario saving the princess all the time?" I don't want Anita to fail. I want Anita to succeed more than she currently is. She has the ball, and she should run with it as far as she can. Jamesman fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Aug 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 20:42
|
|
|
I wonder if the Sarkeesian Effect people accept spermies.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 21:24
|
|
|
Jamesman posted:Before I looked into it, I didn't realize what her initial kickstarter goals were. I just knew she got a shitload of money and hasn't put it to use, so I felt like the blame was on her for not delivering what she promised. I still don't know what the original kickstarter promised, so I don't know if she is delivering on those promises or not, but I suppose the issue here is that I'm not properly informed on any of this to pass proper judgement on how she is appropriating those funds. Here's a good start to learn what the kickstarter promised.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 21:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 16:43 |
|
|
Zain posted:What just even happened? Word up, my home skillets.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2014 21:53
|
|
