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How much does Malazan pick up after the first one? Because Gardens of the Moon was a loving terrible book. The whole flow felt disjointed and garbled, characters seemed to just wander around with no purpose, and the author shotguns fantasy names onto the page without saying who or what they are (I still have no idea if Rhivi, Barghest or whatever are ethnicities or species) or why anybody is fighting. Oponn and Shadowthrone are apparently immensely powerful, but also dumb as hell, but despite the whole book being driven by their machinations we're not given the slightest hint what they're trying to do, and why that would be good/bad for anyone. And then Tattersail nukes themself for little reason, gets reincarnated in a dream, but not they've soulshifted, but no, they were reborn in the past and jesus just write in a straight line Do I suck at reading, or is this thing just deliberately obtuse?
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Aug 26, 2014 21:41
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Strom Cuzewon posted:How much does Malazan pick up after the first one? Because Gardens of the Moon was a loving terrible book. The whole flow felt disjointed and garbled, characters seemed to just wander around with no purpose, and the author shotguns fantasy names onto the page without saying who or what they are (I still have no idea if Rhivi, Barghest or whatever are ethnicities or species) or why anybody is fighting. Oponn and Shadowthrone are apparently immensely powerful, but also dumb as hell, but despite the whole book being driven by their machinations we're not given the slightest hint what they're trying to do, and why that would be good/bad for anyone. And then Tattersail nukes themself for little reason, gets reincarnated in a dream, but not they've soulshifted, but no, they were reborn in the past and jesus just write in a straight line It's poo poo. Anyone telling you it's not poo poo is a terrible neckbeard.
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Aug 26, 2014 21:43
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Strom Cuzewon posted:How much does Malazan pick up after the first one? Because Gardens of the Moon was a loving terrible book. The whole flow felt disjointed and garbled, characters seemed to just wander around with no purpose, and the author shotguns fantasy names onto the page without saying who or what they are (I still have no idea if Rhivi, Barghest or whatever are ethnicities or species) or why anybody is fighting. Oponn and Shadowthrone are apparently immensely powerful, but also dumb as hell, but despite the whole book being driven by their machinations we're not given the slightest hint what they're trying to do, and why that would be good/bad for anyone. And then Tattersail nukes themself for little reason, gets reincarnated in a dream, but not they've soulshifted, but no, they were reborn in the past and jesus just write in a straight line I went through the same thing. Read Gardens of the Moon, thought it was confusing and weird. People told me to read the second book first, so I tried that: still confusing and weird. I picked up random books in the middle and they actually made a little more sense, but still confusing and weird. I have friends who swear by Malazan and I'd dearly like to know what about the books speaks to them, but I just don't read in a way that lets me appreciate them. I think it's like any other fetish: you either get it or you don't.
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Aug 26, 2014 21:56
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Megazver posted:It's poo poo. Anyone telling you it's not poo poo is a terrible neckbeard. It was actually my favorite (along with #3), and I liked it a lot better than the latter books, which I thought really stunk.
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Aug 26, 2014 21:58
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Yeah, I marathoned eight books of the Malazan series on some long plane rides. They got really grueling and it felt like I was essentially reading a long writeup of someone's super-cool GURPS campaign, right down to throwing lots of extra apostrophes into all the words. Other people really like them. I can sortof intellectually understand the attraction but it wasn't for me.
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Aug 26, 2014 22:06
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anathenema posted:I think it's like any other fetish: you either get it or you don't. This is probably the best way to describe those books.
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Aug 26, 2014 22:07
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Strom Cuzewon posted:The whole flow felt disjointed and garbled, characters seemed to just wander around with no purpose, and the author shotguns fantasy names onto the page without saying who or what they are No need to read the rest, you've summarized the series perfectly. I read 1-9 and really, really should've stopped earlier. I bought the 10th book and have never had any urge to read it, not even immediately after finishing book 9.
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Aug 26, 2014 22:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Other people really like them. I can sortof intellectually understand the attraction but it wasn't for me. Yeah I think if I had started reading them in the last few years I wouldn't have bothered, I'm not the same reader I was back in 1999.
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Aug 26, 2014 22:25
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In the last week or so I've read Gardens of the Moon and am 90% done with the second and for me GotM was a far better book, despite its rough edges. DG has been a pretty tedious slog throughout as all the new characters are without exception bad. I think I'll give the third one a shot to see whats going on back in Darujhistan but unless it's significantly better than DG I won't bother with the rest of the series.
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Aug 26, 2014 23:09
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Each book introduces new characters and the story ranges pretty far afield of where it began. If you don't like that, in book two, you'll probably have a really hard time with the series as a whole. Especially since only a few of the "main" characters in the beginning turn out to be central as time goes on, and some books will just start out telling you the story of completely new people in completely separate parts of the world and you have to read 1000 pages to find out what they have to do with everyone else. I have mixed feelings about the series, because I feel like I love the books while I'm reading them, but I have a really hard time starting a new one. It's really hard work to keep track of who everyone is and what they've done in the past if you let even a little amount of time pass between reading them. Now that they're all out, I'll probably do the same thing I've done with Wheel of Time, which is just at some point read them all at once. In my opinion, Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice are two best in the series out of the ones I have read (I've read up through the 7th book), so I would advise anyone who gets that far and doesn't like it to just stop there.
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Aug 26, 2014 23:55
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I think, on balance, I liked the Malazan series, but not enough to actually justify reading the thing (it is a lot of book). The middle section is probably the best- the early books suffer from Erikson not really being sure how to go about this whole "writing" thing (and deciding, for some reason, to reinvent exposition in new and wholly awkward ways), while the climatic pair disappear into masturbatory self indulgence on a truly mind boggling scale. Midnight Tides and Reaper's Gale are probably the best, and they're also almost entirely self contained. I'll give Toll The Hounds a pass too, because it has a bonkers ending which is super fun. Long story short, read Midnight Tides.
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Aug 27, 2014 02:21
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Lowly posted:In my opinion, Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice are two best in the series out of the ones I have read (I've read up through the 7th book), so I would advise anyone who gets that far and doesn't like it to just stop there. I'd second this (having read all 10 books). If those two books don't do it for you, nothing else in the series is really going to seem worth the effort, let alone blow you away. I'd also say that you could skip Gardens of the Moon and just start Deadhouse Gates without really missing a beat.
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Aug 27, 2014 02:51
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I personally love Midnight Tides and House of Chains the most. Societal contrast is a favorite theme of mine.
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Aug 27, 2014 02:52
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Just finished marathoning Echopraxia. I'm still not sure what happened, exactly. I apparently missed that Jim actually destroyed Icarus in that quick and crazy confrontation sequence. I was probably still geeking out about the Icarus station being a scrambler specimen trap. So Valerie hacked vampire genes with Portia (eliminating both Crucifix Glitch and Divide and Conquer in one blow) and then turned Bruks into Vampire NT with the kiss+biopsy? I suppose this all takes place before the epilogue chapter in Blindsight since Heaven hadn't gone down yet. Jim Moore probably recovers to realize what actually happened and send his "stay away" message to Siri.
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Aug 27, 2014 04:11
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The appeal of the Malazan series for me is in having a ton of characters and plots that defy predictability. It's got a ton of moving parts and unlike a lot of other books there's no clear Point B that you know the book will be heading toward. It's also got some of the most badass character ideas I can think of in any book, to the point where you could make a top 100 list of Malazan Badasses and still have left some deserving characters out.Phummus posted:I feel like I'm out of things to read. I sit in a lab twice a week with a needle in my arm and have a lot of reading time. I like escapism. You would probably like the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust, starting with The Book of Jhereg which contains the first three books in the series. It's about a human assassin who works for the equivalent of the Mafia in a city of elves. One of my favorite fantasy series' of all time and definitely the best series featuring an assassin I've read.
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Aug 27, 2014 04:11
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Yay! New Daniel Faust book is out tomorrow (or in like 2 hours). The Living End is the title. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MUADNMK/ref=pe_385040_112047530_TE_DP
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Aug 27, 2014 04:19
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Phummus posted:Any recommendations on things I might like based on the lists above? It's not really like anything on your list, but the best fantasy I've read in a long time is The Broken Sword by Poul Anderson. It was published at the same time as LotR, and draws inspiration from a lot of the same places, but otherwise is completely different. It's a fast, visceral, hugely enjoyable book. Just non-stop excitement and fun. And despite it's age and grand tone, it's a very contemporary read. It doesn't feel like it's from the 50s at all. I can't recommend it enough.
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Aug 27, 2014 05:28
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api call girl posted:Just finished marathoning Echopraxia. I'm still not sure what happened, exactly. I apparently missed that Jim actually destroyed Icarus in that quick and crazy confrontation sequence. I was probably still geeking out about the Icarus station being a scrambler specimen trap. I think you're right. There drat well better be a third book about Dan Bruks, Space Vampire Jesus. Also sort of wished there was more twelve-dimensional chess between the bicamerals/Valerie/3d printed scramblers, but everything going to poo poo instantly was pretty good. Awesome book.
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Aug 27, 2014 06:52
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Calef posted:I think you're right. There drat well better be a third book about Dan Bruks, Space Vampire Jesus. I was disappointed Dan Bruks' crude ape-man solution of 'gently caress you and gently caress your posthuman intelligence <throws self off cliff> didn't work.
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Aug 27, 2014 07:43
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The Ninth Layer posted:You would probably like the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust, starting with The Book of Jhereg which contains the first three books in the series. It's about a human assassin who works for the equivalent of the Mafia in a city of elves. One of my favorite fantasy series' of all time and definitely the best series featuring an assassin I've read.
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Aug 27, 2014 11:39
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Calef posted:I think you're right. There drat well better be a third book about Dan Bruks, Space Vampire Jesus. Neurosis posted:I was disappointed Dan Bruks' crude ape-man solution of 'gently caress you and gently caress your posthuman intelligence <throws self off cliff> didn't work. Obviously I've had a night to sleep on it, and I think I need to revise the order of operations a little here: Portia got to Bruks first, through the sample container the Bicamerals hand him. Valerie kept Bruks around and saved him because she recognized Portia at work, so as long as she kept herself safe via whatever means she did, Bruks was her sample bag. That's why she saves him from Jim Moore. This makes sense when you see how different the two times Bruks got reverse-crucifixed are--it was never fixed out of him, the pilot never had time or motive to re-program him, and while she was definitely inexpert at the trigger, that shouldn't matter. Valerie challenges Bruks repeatedly at the desert site to assure herself that Portia was taking over--Bruks recognizes that his mind/perception/etc is changing but doesn't twig on to why or how. Then she turns Bruks/Portia, tells Portia her wish, and turns around and offers herself as sacrifice because otherwise she might kill him due to her unfixed glitch. The reverse-crucifix hack works on baseline humans. Anyone with post-human augs like Jim Moore's autonomous thing or Bruks+Portia are less affected. That explains why he recovers easily the second time around (and this gives an out to Jim Moore, as Valerie says).
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Aug 27, 2014 13:42
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api call girl posted:Obviously I've had a night to sleep on it, and I think I need to revise the order of operations a little here: I'm with you on Bruks being the carrier, that was pretty heavily implied, the rest I think is going to need me to read it again a bit more closely. I'm not sure on Valerie offering herself - if the Portia/Bruks internal dialogue is correct, Portia explicitly said it outsmarted Valerie. That would imply some kind of antagonism. It was all a bit less clear than Blindsight was. I'm still wondering where the machine AIs are in all this. The flesh can never match the perfection of the digital. Except when the flesh is breaking the laws of physics ala Portia, I guess.
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Aug 27, 2014 16:24
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Echopraxia was good. Maybe not Blindsight good, but good. As always I liked the end notes - the part I rolled my eyes at and thought "come on watts, that's a hell of a cop out" turned out to be real science. It is so delightful to be wrong. Anyone read Lock In by scalzi yet? Thoughts?
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Aug 27, 2014 17:02
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Fried Chicken posted:Echopraxia was good. Maybe not Blindsight good, but good. As always I liked the end notes - the part I rolled my eyes at and thought "come on watts, that's a hell of a cop out" turned out to be real science. It is so delightful to be wrong. Only the free intro novella so far. It was good but it looks like it's going to be a fairly standard "human cop plus cyborg cop" detective novel.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:04
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Fried Chicken posted:Anyone read Lock In by scalzi yet? Thoughts? Frankly, the setting's premise depresses me. (Yeah, I don't really enjoy Watts' books either, why do you ask?)
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Aug 27, 2014 17:16
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Cardiovorax posted:It's kind of awkward and feels a bit disjointed, because the books aren't in chronological order, but it's a fairly good read, once you get used to the fact that it continually namedrops things from a different series in the same setting that you are just kinda expected to know. Everybody is also really overpowered. The Jenoine are probably my favourite eldritch abominations in fantasy, though. It's fantastic to see Vlad kind of standing toe-to-toe with these unbelievably powerful people, based mostly on his dumb social luck and carefully constructed image.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:23
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http://storybundle.com/darkfantasy At least 2 good reads in there, the Twenty Palaces book and The Long Way Down. No clue on the rest of em. The lust demon one is making my "god this is gonna turn out to be porn" sense tingle, but London Macabre sounds interesting. Bone Shop seems interesting as well but I've never heard of that character.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:33
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Whalley posted:I love that everyone is overpowered though. Like, no poo poo Vlad's a legend; he's got a bigger body count than dudes who have lived hundreds of years. Of course Morrolan is a crazy badass; how else would he have a flying castle of diplomatic immunity? Duh Sethra's basically a god; that's how these books work. No poo poo the random second-tier business owner down the street's a badass, he has access to an instant psychic network and can teleport at the drop of a hat. What, can't you?
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Aug 27, 2014 17:42
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Fried Chicken posted:Echopraxia was good. Maybe not Blindsight good, but good. As always I liked the end notes - the part I rolled my eyes at and thought "come on watts, that's a hell of a cop out" turned out to be real science. It is so delightful to be wrong. Was there an appendix to blindsight? My ebook copy doesn't seem to include one.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:43
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Phummus posted:I feel like I'm out of things to read. I sit in a lab twice a week with a needle in my arm and have a lot of reading time. I like escapism. The Coldfire trilogy by C. S. Friedman Among Thieves by Douglas Hulick The Lighthouse Duet and/or the Collegia Magica trilogy by Carol Berg Nightrunner series by Lynn Flewelling? Not as good, but a fun read anyway. Maybe The Wars of Light and Shadow by Janny Wurts if you want a long series to get into. Do you lean toward the darker/more serious stuff or like lighter stories, too? Things that are more gritty and realistic or more creative fantasy with poetic voice? Might have a few more suggestions.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:45
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andrew smash posted:Was there an appendix to blindsight? My ebook copy doesn't seem to include one. Yeah, the HTML version was hyperlinked with endnotes.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:53
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:http://storybundle.com/darkfantasy I think you'll like Bone Shop. If you do, there's a series of books around that character. Tim Pratt's books are fun.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:56
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Whalley posted:I love that everyone is overpowered though. Like, no poo poo Vlad's a legend; he's got a bigger body count than dudes who have lived hundreds of years. Of course Morrolan is a crazy badass; how else would he have a flying castle of diplomatic immunity? Duh Sethra's basically a god; that's how these books work. No poo poo the random second-tier business owner down the street's a badass, he has access to an instant psychic network and can teleport at the drop of a hat. What, can't you? You have to love an author who decides to write a five volume series in the style of Alexandre Dumas because he thinks it's cool. And then titles a chapter "…in which the plot, after the manner of a soup to which cornstarch has been added, begins, at last, to thicken." And makes it all work. I hope he does more Paarfi books, I really do.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:56
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Echo Cian posted:The Coldfire trilogy by C. S. Friedman mllaneza posted:You have to love an author who decides to write a five volume series in the style of Alexandre Dumas because he thinks it's cool. And then titles a chapter "…in which the plot, after the manner of a soup to which cornstarch has been added, begins, at last, to thicken." And makes it all work.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:01
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mllaneza posted:You have to love an author who decides to write a five volume series in the style of Alexandre Dumas because he thinks it's cool. And then titles a chapter "…in which the plot, after the manner of a soup to which cornstarch has been added, begins, at last, to thicken." And makes it all work.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:10
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Almost done with Echopraxia. Enjoying it a lot, but my mind isn't blown like it was over Blindsight. Blindsight seemed rawer, somehow. I dunno. I do chuckle a bit every time Valerie's home insitution is mentioned. It's very weird to think that my mother's alma mater got involved in vampire research...
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Aug 27, 2014 18:36
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I am just now reading Skin Game and just got to the part where he talks to his subconscious again and I am loving dying with laughter oh my loving god.
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Aug 27, 2014 19:47
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Just went back to the last chapter and epilogue (of Echopraxia) and parsed it for information and Peter Watts never actually said vampires could actually pass vampirism or that Valerie had done so. What she'd actually done was infect Bruks using his kit with some hacked encephalitis that would pick up the Portia-hacked genes and could therefore infect vampires that way. He's the Portia-infected ambassador, any part of his I-less resurrection at the end etc., that's all Portia. I guess if we wanted to go through Maelstrom's Meltdown Madonna again with Bruks for book 3 that'd be one thing, but how do you have a POV without ... a POV?
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Aug 27, 2014 22:55
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Probably another POV shift, would be my guess. Maybe the Colonel?
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Aug 27, 2014 23:03
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mllaneza posted:You have to love an author who decides to write a five volume series in the style of Alexandre Dumas because he thinks it's cool. And then titles a chapter "…in which the plot, after the manner of a soup to which cornstarch has been added, begins, at last, to thicken." And makes it all work. Brust is one of my favorites. Vlad owns, but I think my favorite character in the entire series is Kragar. He's so snarky and...invisible. When the hell does Hawk come out? It's been too long!
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Aug 27, 2014 23:17
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