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Shanakin posted:Did anyone mention that the RH202 is one of the best autocannons now? It's gone from poo poo tier to outclassing the 2A72 (which honestly isn't anything special anymore, vaguely above average perhaps). Also it's on a dirt cheap, well armoured IFV, carrying what is arguably the best-in-game infantry, which are also dirt cheap? I think you're looking at the 2A42 on the BMP-2s, which is mostly a mirror of the Rh 202 honestly. The 2A72 is still 40% accuracy and got bumped up to 3 AP, which puts it nearly at the 9040s level to if you add RoF into the mix. I can't see clip sizes in the armory though so idk how the RoF really translates, but I've used the BMPT and BMP-3 regularly enough to know the gun still kicks rear end. This does bring up the question why the BMD-3 is more expensive then the Marder 1A3 though, it's deficient in literally every possible way. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 19:24
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The 2A72 has a lower RoF than the 2A42 (it actually puts out like 0.05HE/s LESS than the 2A42). The RH202 is less accurate, and only 2AP, but it fires a loooot faster. The extra AP on the 2A72 will give it an advantage vs higher armoured targets in the form of range though. edit: I need to run the numbers on the big 40mm autocannons at some point, but my guess is they are mediocre to bad at HE (shooting infantry) and good at AP. Shocking. Shanakin fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 19:30
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Mazz posted:This does bring up the question why the BMD-3 is more expensive then the Marder 1A3 though, it's deficient in literally every possible way. Well, you see, it is amphibious, and slightly faster, so clearly it needs to be priced higher than a dumb slow non river crossing IFV, regardless of armor and armament. Also, were you aware of high weak the Marder 1 line is, and how they totally need to be priced lower to compensate for their obviously pitiful availability?
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Aug 27, 2014 20:07
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I think it was made pretty clear in the last big german whine debacle how utterly ridiculously good the entire Marder line is compared to pretty much every other APC. They are priced consistently 5-10 points too low for what they are, which is quite a lot when you're talking units that only cost in the area of 10-20 points. That they're getting an even cheaper, even better APC is just pure Eugen. Also I bet the US unit is going to be F22 at 1-rookie per card. Maximum uselessness.
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Aug 27, 2014 20:16
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They've said the US one is a non-prototype, and is one of the ones they listed in that thread of dropped US units. Given that the PIP effectively takes the Patriot's role, I'd guess the Roland truck maybe? I'd say maybe the LOSAT, but that would have to be a proto wouldn't it? Seeing as it never actually hit service. The US could use a midranged, wheeled, radar SAM. Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 20:23
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:They've said the US one is a non-prototype, and is one of the ones they listed in that thread of dropped US units. It's definitely the M975 or ADATS in that case then. The Roland 2 could be either chassis depending on what they feel like using. The ADATS might squeeze in as non-proto because I think that barrier is at like 92 now, and the ADATS was mostly ready for fielding before the wall fell IIRC. I just realized there is a TD on that list though, so it could potentially be the LOSAT, or, at the same time, they are actually giving the Russians one of the Kornet/Khrizantema carriers. Still real curious about the rest too, especially Red dragon. EDIT: I'd laugh real hard if Eugen decided to squeeze that patriot truck in somehow as a US gimmick but holy poo poo that'd be messed up with PACT not getting S-300 access, especially since the 300V makes way more sense Mazz fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 21:05
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I'm still wagering that it's the ADATS Bradley. IIRC one of Iris's megaposts said they had a unit of them operating as early as 1989, which would make it a non-prototype. They were only cancelled in 1992 as far as I know.Mazz posted:EDIT: I'd laugh real hard if Eugen decided to squeeze that patriot truck in somehow as a US gimmick but holy poo poo that'd be messed up with PACT not getting S-300 access, especially since the 300V makes way more sense
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Aug 27, 2014 21:21
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DatonKallandor posted:I think it was made pretty clear in the last big german whine debacle how utterly ridiculously good the entire Marder line is compared to pretty much every other APC. They are priced consistently 5-10 points too low for what they are, which is quite a lot when you're talking units that only cost in the area of 10-20 points. That they're getting an even cheaper, even better APC is just pure Eugen. IMO, it'd be fine if they up-priced the PzG '90 to 25, and repriced all other APCs along Marder lines. It's fine that WGer is getting the awesome Marder II, it's just that other nations need to be brought up to WGer standards. Lots of USA players ask for stuff like LOSATs and Javelins etc, but I really hope they get they ADATS because it will solve a lot more problems than any other unit USA could get, even more than shock Rangers. My beef with USA is that because HAWKs are extremely slow and both Chaps and Hawks die super easily, and PIVADs are SEADable and not that great, USA does not have any AA that is relatively survivable and can move quickly enough to sustain battles. Your AA etc gets SEADed and artilleried to death a lot faster than other nations and yet is just as expensive right now.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:47
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Still hoping for the ADATS. Hopefully on a Brad chassis, so I can call it Bradats 
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Aug 27, 2014 22:21
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Eugens balance philosophy is like watching your favorite grandparent go senile, except funny instead of depressing.
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Aug 27, 2014 22:41
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OctaMurk posted:IMO, it'd be fine if they up-priced the PzG '90 to 25, and repriced all other APCs along Marder lines. It's fine that WGer is getting the awesome Marder II, it's just that other nations need to be brought up to WGer standards. Unfortunately they can't price other good APCs at marder price because then there's nowhere to go for the layers of shittier APCs. The Marder is priced so low, there's not enough lower price ranges for 3-4 tiers of even worse APCs. The only viable option is to price the Marder at what it's actually worth (raise the price to what the equally good APCs of other nations cost). Of course the obvious and best-for-the-game solution would be to just price every good APC at Marder price and cut the utterly crappy APCs entirely, but Eugen never removes units period.
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Aug 27, 2014 23:16
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They did cut the M113 variants from European Escalation. Back then, USA got 45kmh Gavins with no armour at all and 300k autonomy, causing them to sometimes run out of fuel before they even reached the front line. To fix all that, you had to pay 15pts for what is now the basic M113, simply because two cheaper variants existed at 5 and 10pts respectively. The Soviets were scooting around in wheeled BTR's for 5pts.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:01
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It's more like Eugen should abandon the 5 pts pricing tiers, but unfortunately it seems never to be.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:16
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They could just multiply point income and price by 2. Then they have more increments to work with.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:19
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DatonKallandor posted:Of course the obvious and best-for-the-game solution would be to just price every good APC at Marder price and cut the utterly crappy APCs entirely, but Eugen never removes units period. Just leave them as inferior options, potentially with benefits in number of cards of ability to get a lot per card so they're a good pick for bulk infantry or something. The best thing is for everything to be balanced, the next best thing is for the best options of every faction to be balanced, and the absolute least necessary, basically meaningless, thing is for all the pricing in individual factions to be internally consistent.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:24
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Since they're not willing to get rid of units, and units need to be gotten rid of, the next best thing is having the lovely old units from 1960 be obviously worthless. I long ago came to terms with the idea that some units will never be useful, see for instance recoilless rifle jeeps.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:33
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REDFOR's gonna be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad as hell.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:38
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I'm happy Blue Dragons get competent artillery now, and... well, we'll see how the Marder II situation shakes out, I guess.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:38
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Dandywalken posted:REDFOR's gonna be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad as hell. Are the USSR and Red Dragons DLC units any good? And is the US unit a massive overpowered gimmick in the same way that the ATACMS is total bullshit?
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Aug 28, 2014 00:39
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Dandywalken posted:REDFOR's gonna be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad as hell. Oh man. It's the Patriot isn't it? Prepare for months of "Why no S300  "That's the only thing I could think of that would piss off RedFor fans. Well that or the Jav...
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Aug 28, 2014 00:39
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Deltas '90 with the XM4, SMAW, and an infantry minigun?
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Aug 28, 2014 00:49
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Chantilly Say posted:Deltas '90 with the XM4, SMAW, and an infantry minigun? Would legitimately make me rage less hard than Patriot missile system or javelin
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Aug 28, 2014 00:51
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OctaMurk posted:Would legitimately make me rage less hard than Patriot missile system or javelin Well unless they overbuff the poo poo out of the Javelin it's like giving the US a RBS 56 at best. If they give it to light riflemen or some poo poo then maybe. If it's seriously PATRIOT though thats sooooooooooo hosed.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:57
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What would the patriot actually do?
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Aug 28, 2014 01:01
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Why would they give them a Patriot? Why would the US need the game's best SAM? Comedy option: not the Patriot, it's a land CIWS to shoot down incoming rocket arty.
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Aug 28, 2014 01:04
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Chantilly Say posted:Deltas '90 with the XM4, SMAW, and an infantry minigun? If it's not this I'm gonna be seriously disappointed.
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Aug 28, 2014 01:04
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The I-HAWK PIP III occupies the spot which otherwise would be occupied by the Patriot, besides being tracked. Like the Il-102, it strikes me as something engineered to generate the most anger from fans with the least gameplay impact.
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Aug 28, 2014 01:10
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It's a Comanche with four Sidewinders, eight Hellfires, and a CIWS/antipersonnel laser. Right? Warm or cold here?
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Aug 28, 2014 01:14
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I will name my USA Support Patriot+ATCMS deck "IRON DOME"Chantilly Say posted:It's a Comanche with four Sidewinders, eight Hellfires, and a CIWS/antipersonnel laser. Right? Warm or cold here? 
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Aug 28, 2014 01:18
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Chantilly Say posted:It's a Comanche with four Sidewinders, eight Hellfires, and a CIWS/antipersonnel laser. Right? Warm or cold here? It's supposed to make people rage, not be hilarious and cool
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Aug 28, 2014 01:22
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Koramei posted:What would the patriot actually do? On the longshot this is actually it, the only way it makes any sense at all is if it shoots something unique like 5250m (sorta like the SM-2). It makes absolutely no sense to add regardless of the above, especially without adding one of the S-300, namely the S-300V. This is why it's potentially plausible from a Eugen standpoint.
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Aug 28, 2014 01:22
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Mazz posted:It makes absolutely no sense...
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Aug 28, 2014 01:28
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Gonna be a Zumwalt. Railgun all the things.
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Aug 28, 2014 01:31
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OctaMurk posted:It's supposed to make people rage, not be hilarious and cool It's a Harrier... that can hover... with napalm rocket launchers. It's a Bradley with an AP24... ballista! It's a stealth Abrams!
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Aug 28, 2014 01:36
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It's a mobile house
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Aug 28, 2014 01:49
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Cmon man, it's Czechoslovakia, it's like going into Wisconsin.
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Aug 28, 2014 01:51
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Mountainous?
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Aug 28, 2014 01:58
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Leaks have already happened on 4chan, at least they can't blame me this time!  Confirmed: -Patriot for USA on MAN Kat 6x6 Chasis. -LAV-III with triple Javelin (MANPADS) launcher. -USSR gets an another spetsnaz squad -M113/Milan for ANZAC  -M1992 SPAAG for NK -3,000kg bomber for NK Xerxes17 fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Aug 28, 2014 |
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Aug 28, 2014 02:05
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Xerxes17 posted:-USSR gets an another spetsnaz squad what
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Aug 28, 2014 02:09
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Well uh, you see DEAR LEADER cracked the revolutionary Juche requirements for design of magnificent North Korean Atom Bomb! (edited , should be 3,000kg)
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Aug 28, 2014 02:11
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