US Politics August - The Frontline in the War on Whites

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Politics August - The Frontline in the War on Whites

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Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; ...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?; Nap Ghost

Unzip and Attack posted:

Not sure which is more exhausting, the blatant trolling or the people actively cheerleading the troll because they think it's "debate". You really think someone saying Brown deserved to get shot because he "robbed" a store counts as debate? gently caress you.

I think the people who incessantly whine about people responding to him are equally annoying.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:29

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 09:46

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Unzip and Attack posted:

Not sure which is more exhausting, the blatant trolling or the people actively cheerleading the troll because they think it's "debate".

socialsecurity posted:

It's not debating when one person is making up the most offensive racist garbage he can to argue in bad faith, he's just a troll strawman that derails the entire thread.

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Hey amergin you mind posting about the weather or something unrelated to politics once? I'm curious if the whining is a Pavlovian response yet.

Shear Modulus posted:

Oh no, people are debating about political issues in the US Politics thread in the Debate and Discussion subforum.

Internet Webguy posted:

All these posters who think engaging the same ten or so rotating conservative talking points is fun and entertaining should join Freep.

Unzip and Attack posted:

Oh hey cool another entire page dedicated to responding to Amergin's lovely posts, this one suggesting Brown deserved to die because according to Amergin he "robbed" a store. Hey as long as we're all practicing our rhetorical skills for the inevitable day when the world will need us!

Elephant Ambush posted:

I think the people who whine about people responding to him are equally annoying.

THREAD IS UP. Now there's a place for you to do your thing. Get out.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:29

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Because you know, the thread wasn't totally renamed from GOP rebuilding to USPOL so it wouldn't become an echo chamber, even if the dissenting voice is posting in bad faith.

E: also until someone in moderation actually says to stop I'll reply to amergin here if I please, your backseat moderating be damned.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:36

Unzip and Attack: Mar 3, 2008; USPOL May

It's interesting to see how offshore holdings are actually in the news these days. I heard them talking about it on CNN this morning and I've seen a lot of references to it on Twitter. I'm sure it's just a news cycle thing but it's nice to have it in the spotlight if even for short time.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:37

StandardVC10: Feb 6, 2007; This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

socialsecurity posted:

I'm sure he didn't mean that cause he was black but because because he looks "urban"

I wonder what you'd get if you asked one of these conservatives to identify what it is that makes someone look "urban." Alternatively what made someone look like a "thug."

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:38

anonumos: Jul 14, 2005; Fuck it.

StandardVC10 posted:

I wonder what you'd get if you asked one of these conservatives to identify what it is that makes someone look "urban." Alternatively what made someone look like a "thug."

Dark skin. Darker than my parchment-white rear end. That's usually a good indication of the "thugness" of any individual.</racism>

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:41

Amergin: Jan 29, 2013; THE SOUND A WET FART MAKES

Unzip and Attack posted:

Not sure which is more exhausting, the blatant trolling (which is somehow now ok even though he was probated in the July thread for it) or the people actively cheerleading the troll because they think it's "debate". You really think someone saying Brown deserved to get shot because he "robbed" a store counts as debate? gently caress you.

I never said Brown deserved to get shot because he robbed a store. I said he shouldn't be held up as a beacon of racial issues because he robbed a store.

It's like holding Ray Rice up as a beacon for women's rights.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:45

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

Unzip and Attack posted:

It's interesting to see how offshore holdings are actually in the news these days. I heard them talking about it on CNN this morning and I've seen a lot of references to it on Twitter. I'm sure it's just a news cycle thing but it's nice to have it in the spotlight if even for short time.

The phenomenon of the huge upticks in inversion deals is pretty loving egregious and companies having huge offshore holdings is basically the same issue.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:45

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

Amergin posted:

I never said Brown deserved to get shot because he robbed a store. I said he shouldn't be held up as a beacon of racial issues because he robbed a store.

I don't think anyone is doing this, hth. It's mostly the whole "he got shot to death" issue people are concerning themselves with.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:49

Magres: Jul 14, 2011

Amergin posted:

I never said Brown deserved to get shot because he robbed a store. I said he shouldn't be held up as a beacon of racial issues because he robbed a store.

It's like holding Ray Rice up as a beacon for women's rights.

No it's like holding up a woman who allegedly cheated on her boyfriend then was unrelatedly murdered by the dude who went on a shooting spree because he couldn't get a date as a beacon for women's rights.

The same idiots who yell "HE WAS A THUG (who deserved it)" would yell "SHE WAS A SLUT (who deserved it)."

Magres fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Aug 28, 2014

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:49

Fuckt Tupp: Apr 19, 2007; Science

Shear Modulus posted:

The phenomenon of the huge upticks in inversion deals is pretty loving egregious and companies having huge offshore holdings is basically the same issue.

Yeah, it's this and Burger King is the most major recent inversion development. But it's totally not about taxes, they're just showing off their Canadian pride. Plus our neighbors to the north are on much friendlier terms with monarchies.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:50

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Fried Chicken posted:

The worker walkout of Market Basket worked

At least the article mentions one of the justices is retiring in January and Brown's nominated someone for another vacancy so the court will become less totalitarian when the case makes it way back up to them.

Though the SCOTUS would support this ruling in a 5-4 decision, and they will if this gets to them before one of the conservative Justices dies. :smith:

Geoff Peterson posted:

Pretty tough to discuss things people dislike about Sharpton without factoring in Crown Heights. With that said, I thought he had a pretty stellar eulogy at the Brown funeral.

Even if someone hates Sharpton deeply, at least he isn't Jesse Jackson.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 20:51

Prosopagnosiac: May 19, 2007; One of us! One of us! Aqua Buddha! Aqua Buddha! One of us!

With the recent changes in the projections for Q2 growth being revised upwards there is also some good news about the deficit and especially Medicare spending.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/08/27/yes-obamacare-is-cutting-the-deficit/?tid=rssfeed

The article mentions The ACA as being the cause, which runs counter to literally everything the GOP has said for the past 5 years. I'm sure that with these new facts and figures they will apologize for their gross mischaracterizations and exaggerations over these past few.....hahahahaja a!

# ? Aug 28, 2014 21:26

Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

Prosopagnosiac posted:

With the recent changes in the projections for Q2 growth being revised upwards there is also some good news about the deficit and especially Medicare spending.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/08/27/yes-obamacare-is-cutting-the-deficit/?tid=rssfeed

The article mentions The ACA as being the cause, which runs counter to literally everything the GOP has said for the past 5 years. I'm sure that with these new facts and figures they will apologize for their gross mischaracterizations and exaggerations over these past few.....hahahahaja a!

They'll say the figures lie, pull out their own assmath, and still bitch. Until the next GOP president comes then obamacare will be their idea.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 21:33

Unzip and Attack: Mar 3, 2008; USPOL May

It's really entertaining to take a look at graphs put out by rightwing sites in 2010/2011 that show the annual debt spiking up into ludicrous levels in 2014/2015. Having all that stuff available online is really nice.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 21:35

anonumos: Jul 14, 2005; Fuck it.

Amergin posted:

I never said Brown deserved to get shot because he robbed a store. I said he shouldn't be held up as a beacon of racial issues because he robbed a store.

It's like holding Ray Rice up as a beacon for women's rights.

Very bad equivalence man. Ray Rice is like Darren Wilson, the officer that shot Brown (Rice being the wife beater in your example). You'd uphold Rice's wife as an example of why a woman has the right to NOT BE BEATEN LIKE A DEAD HORSE. Kind of like how Brown has the right not to be shot because he was jaywalking while black.

Prosopagnosiac posted:

With the recent changes in the projections for Q2 growth being revised upwards there is also some good news about the deficit and especially Medicare spending.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/08/27/yes-obamacare-is-cutting-the-deficit/?tid=rssfeed

The article mentions The ACA as being the cause, which runs counter to literally everything the GOP has said for the past 5 years. I'm sure that with these new facts and figures they will apologize for their gross mischaracterizations and exaggerations over these past few.....hahahahaja a!

I love this, because anyone with a half a brain could see that saving people money on healthcare would be a good thing, expanding the customer-base of insurance companies would be a good thing, and reducing the amount of unpaid medical debt would be a good thing for the economy. loving L O L.

anonumos fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Aug 28, 2014

# ? Aug 28, 2014 21:36

ufarn: May 30, 2009

65% of Democrats would vote for Right To Work laws. :smith:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/175556/americans-approve-unions-support-right-work.aspx

# ? Aug 28, 2014 21:56

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Well hell, who doesn't believe in a right to work? That's what it's for right?

E: Ahaha nice one Deal

quote:

"There's a fundamental problem that can only be resolved at the Congressional level and that is to deal with the issue of children, and I presume you probably fit the category, children who were brought here," said Deal who was looking toward Lizbeth Miranda, a Hispanic student who was standing up with others asking questions.

"I'm not an illegal immigrant. I'm not," said Miranda. "I don't know why you would have thought that I was undocumented. Was it because I look Hispanic?"

The governor replied: "I apologize if I insulted you. I did not intend to."

zoux fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Aug 28, 2014

# ? Aug 28, 2014 21:57

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...src=al_national

quote:

At least four hostages held in Syria by the Islamic State, including an American journalist who was recently executed by the group, were waterboarded in the early part of their captivity, according to people familiar with the treatment of the kidnapped Westerners.

James Foley was among the four who were waterboarded several times by Islamic State militants who appeared to model the technique on the CIA�s use of waterboarding to interrogate suspected terrorists after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The victims of waterboarding are often strapped down on gurneys or benches while cold water is poured over a cloth covering their faces; they suffer the sensation of feeling they are drowning. �The wet cloth creates a barrier through which it is difficult � or in some cases not possible � to breathe,� according to a May 2005 Justice Department memo on the CIA�s use of the technique.

President Obama has condemned waterboarding as torture.

�They knew exactly how it was done,� said a person with direct knowledge of what happened to the hostages. The person, who would only discuss the hostages� experience on condition of anonymity, said the captives, including Foley, were held in Raqqah, a city in the north-central region of Syria.

James Foley was beheaded by the Islamic State last week in apparent retaliation for U.S. airstrikes in Iraq where the militant group has seized large swaths of territory. The group, which also controls parts of Syria, has threatened to kill another American, journalist Steven J. Sotloff. He was seen at the end of a video showing Foley�s killing that was released by the militant group. Two other Americans are also held by Islamic State.

A second person familiar with Foley�s time in captivity confirmed Foley was tortured, including by waterboarding.

�Yes, that is part of the information that bubbled up and Jim was subject to it,� the person said. �I believe he suffered a lot of physical abuse.�

Foley�s mother, Diane, said in a brief phone interview Thursday that she didn�t know her son had been waterboarded.

The FBI, which is investigating Foley�s death and the abduction of Americans in Syria, declined to comment. The CIA had no official comment.

�ISIL is a group that routinely crucifies and beheads people,� a U.S. official, using one of the acronyms for the militant group. �To suggest that there is any correlation between ISIL�s brutality and past U.S. actions is ridiculous and feeds into their twisted propaganda.�

Waterboarding was one of the interrogation techniques adopted by the CIA and sanctioned by the Justice Department when the agency opened a series of secret overseas prisons to question captured terrorism suspects.

Three CIA detainees � Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Abu Zubaida and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri � were waterboarded while held in secret CIA prisons. Mohammed, the self-proclaimed mastermind of the 9/11 attacks was waterboarded 183 times, according to a memo issued by the Office of Legal Counsel at the Justice Department.

All three men, along with 11 other so-called high-value detainees, were transferred to the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in Sept. 2006, when President Bush closed the CIA�s overseas prisons.

Obama on entering office outlawed the use of coercive interrogation techniques, including waterboarding.

Critics of waterboarding have said for years that the practice endangered Americans, putting them at risk that they will be subjected to the same brutal treatment at the hands of the enemy.

�Waterboarding dates to the Spanish Inquisition and has been a favorite of dictators through the ages, including Pol Pot and the regime in Burma,� said Democratic senators Dianne Feinstein of California and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island in an op-ed in 2008. �Condoning torture opens the door for our enemies to do the same to captured American troops in the future.�

The Senate Intelligence Committee is preparing to release a report asserting that waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques used by CIA operatives were not effective, according to Feinstein who chairs the committee. Former agency employees dispute that conclusion.

French journalist Didier Francois, who was imprisoned with Foley, has told reporters that Foley was targeted for extra abuse because his captors found pictures on his computer of his brother, who serves in the U.S. Air Force.

Francois said Foley was subjected to mock executions � something suspected al-Qaeda operative Nashiri also endured while being held in a secret CIA prison, according to a report by the inspector general of the CIA. The Justice Department did not sanction mock executions.

Francois was kidnapped by the Islamic State in June 2013 and held for 10 months. He and three other French journalists were released near the Turkish border.

U.S. and British intelligence believe they�re close to identifying Foley�s killer among a group of British men who had traveled to Syria to fight and appear to have held Foley, Francois and the others hostages.

On Wednesday, Sotloff�s mother released a video, making an emotional plea for the leader of the Islamic State to free her son.

�Please release my child,� Shirley Sotloff said. �And as a mother, I ask your justice to be merciful and not punish my son for matters he has no control over.�

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:02

Edible Hat: Jul 23, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

I think the vast majority of people don't know what right-to-work actually is. (In fact, I've seen people on D&D who are otherwise very intelligent confuse it with at-will employment.)

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:03

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

ufarn posted:

65% of Democrats would vote for Right To Work laws.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/175556/americans-approve-unions-support-right-work.aspx

Here's the phrasing of the question:

This is a pretty positive phrasing of right-to-work laws.
Isn't branding something.

Edible Hat posted:

I think the vast majority of people don't know what right-to-work actually is. (In fact, I've seen people on D&D who are otherwise very intelligent confuse it with at-will employment.)

The pdf linked at the bottom with the full results notes that 45% of respondents said they hadn't heard of right-to-work laws before the survey.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:03

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Edible Hat posted:

I think the vast majority of people don't know what right-to-work actually is. (In fact, I've seen people on D&D who are otherwise very intelligent confuse it with at-will employment.)

Would it be unconstitutional for a state assembly to pass some "Accuracy in Proposed Bills concerning Labor Law" legislstion?

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:07

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Haha I thought Gallup wasn't a lovely polling organization. Here's the followups to that right to work question.

code:

23. (Asked of a half sample) Those in favor of right-to-work or open shop laws say that no American should be 
required to join any private organization, like a labor union, against his will. Do you agree or disagree with 
this?
               Agree Disagree No opinion
2014 Aug 7-10   82     15         3

code:

(Asked of a half sample) Those opposed to right-to-work or open shops laws say that when all workers share 
the gains won by the labor union, all workers should have to join and pay dues to give the union financial 
support. Do you agree or disagree with this?

                    Agree Disagree No opinion
2014 Aug 7-10        32      64       5

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:07

Spatula City: Oct 21, 2010; LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING

Ah, framing right to work as a choice issue. That is great branding. Only problem is, if the mouthpieces of it are people like Scott Walker, Democrats will suss out pretty quickly there's something fishy going on.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:08

Edible Hat: Jul 23, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Well, a significant minority (will admit their ignorance).

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:08

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Rest easy comrades, the unfortunately named Sam Wang has the D's with a 70% chance of retaining the Senate.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:10

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

Saying that Dems will fight right-to-work laws with conviction also presumes that they give a poo poo about supporting unions right now, which is not something I'm convinced of.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:11

Dante Logos: Dec 31, 2010

zoux posted:

Well hell, who doesn't believe in a right to work? That's what it's for right?

E: Ahaha nice one Deal

This is the state that tried to go down hard on illegal immigrants. Which resulted in crop harvest rotting in the fields because they didn't think their cunning plan all the way through. It's wrong to exploit labor like that, yes, but the gist is that they didn't know how much they depended on it when they jumped on the "ILLEGALS1!!" bandwagon.

So this is no real surprise.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:13

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Spatula City posted:

Ah, framing right to work as a choice issue. That is great branding. Only problem is, if the mouthpieces of it are people like Scott Walker, Democrats will suss out pretty quickly there's something fishy going on.

The best way to frame right to work laws IMO is that a union is simply a private organization contracting with a company to provide labor, and why should the government ban clauses in that contract saying they can't buy labor from anyone else? Nobody is forced to join a union in union shops. Just find another job

# ? Aug 28, 2014 22:37

Bhaal: Jul 13, 2001; I ain't going down alone; Dr. Infant, MD

icantfindaname posted:

The best way to frame right to work laws IMO is that a union is simply a private organization contracting with a company to provide labor, and why should the government ban clauses in that contract saying they can't buy labor from anyone else? Nobody is forced to join a union in union shops. Just find another job

Putting it that way how do outsourcing and workforce agencies fit in?

As in, AcmeCo. needs a large 24/7 call center but doesn't want to add that many bodies to their employee roster (all those benefits, YUCK!). They handle the office space, equipment, etc and enter a contract with StaffCo. Now, if you wanted work at AcmeCo.'s call center, you would go to AcmeCo's building, interview and get hired by AcmeCo people, and from there you have an AcmeCo. boss, on AcmeCo customers and projects, a random of coworker in the break room could be employed by AcmeCo, could be StaffCo, AcmeCo assigns all your day to day, gives you some level of security access, accounts on their internal systems, sets your schedule, rules, can fire you, etc. Your check says StaffCo. There is no way to work for them directly, you have to go through StaffCo.

I'm trying to see how that is different from a union under the way you put it. It's interesting to me because in my youth I once held a lovely job at a StaffCo working for an AcmeCo. Our benefits were so awful that when the person conducting our orientation class told us the cost of getting insurance through them she immediately conceded (to a room full of shocked faces) that it is a terrible deal and she flat out pleaded with us to "find another way" to pick up medical insurance if we needed it. It was something like 15% of our gross pay if we worked a solid 40 each week. That was just the beginning of all the crap they could pull on the workers.

That place was like the employer anti-union but thinking back on it now it definitely behaved in the same way that you couldn't work there unless you went through them.

Bhaal fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Aug 28, 2014

# ? Aug 28, 2014 23:13

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 203 days!

Amergin posted:

I never said Brown deserved to get shot because he robbed a store. I said he shouldn't be held up as a beacon of racial issues because he robbed a store.

Thanks for your concern, but even if he had robbed me personally (I'm currently working in a convenience store), I'd still identify with him because he was shot to death for no reason by someone our society entrusts with deadly force.

It's happened in Vancouver with mentally ill people. Oh no, am I saying I'm mentally ill by sympathizing with the victim?

# ? Aug 28, 2014 23:21

Sir Tonk: Apr 18, 2006; Young Orc

Dante Logos posted:

This is the state that tried to go down hard on illegal immigrants. Which resulted in crop harvest rotting in the fields because they didn't think their cunning plan all the way through. It's wrong to exploit labor like that, yes, but the gist is that they didn't know how much they depended on it when they jumped on the "ILLEGALS1!!" bandwagon.

So this is no real surprise.

I thought that was Alabama.

edit

Either way, the plan was to scare all the Mexicans out of the state so the Real Americans� could have the jobs instead. Funny thing was, no Real Americans showed up to take the jobs (mostly because they paid poo poo for the work required) and a ton of food rotted away while the farmers bitched at the state legislature for loving them over. It's almost as if GOP plans are all built for a fantasy America that only exists in their heads. See: Kansas.

You also had the southern states that enacted their own version of SB1070 caught pulling over the head of Toyota, and I think Volkswagen, and requesting their papers. The Governor had to do major damage control since they were trying to get car plants built in their state at the time.

Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Aug 28, 2014

# ? Aug 28, 2014 23:22

zamin: Jan 9, 2004

Bhaal posted:

Putting it that way how do outsourcing and workforce agencies fit in?

As in, AcmeCo. needs a large 24/7 call center but doesn't want to add that many bodies to their employee roster (all those benefits, YUCK!). They handle the office space, equipment, etc and enter a contract with StaffCo. Now, if you wanted work at AcmeCo.'s call center, you would go to AcmeCo's building, interview and get hired by AcmeCo people, and from there you have an AcmeCo. boss, on AcmeCo customers and projects, a random of coworker in the break room could be employed by AcmeCo, could be StaffCo, AcmeCo assigns all your day to day, gives you some level of security access, accounts on their internal systems, sets your schedule, rules, can fire you, etc. Your check says StaffCo. There is no way to work for them directly, you have to go through StaffCo.

I'm trying to see how that is different from a union under the way you put it. It's interesting to me because in my youth I once held a lovely job at a StaffCo working for an AcmeCo. Our benefits were so awful that when the person conducting our orientation class told us the cost of getting insurance through them she immediately conceded (to a room full of shocked faces) that it is a terrible deal and she flat out pleaded with us to "find another way" to pick up medical insurance if we needed it. It was something like 15% of our gross pay if we worked a solid 40 each week. That was just the beginning of all the crap they could pull on the workers.

That place was like the employer anti-union but thinking back on it now it definitely behaved in the same way that you couldn't work there unless you went through them.

This is how my employer works. You don't apply with the actual company, you apply with the "variable workforce agency" that they contract with. However, after around 18-24 months with the agency, the company will usually hire you from the agency, in what's known as transitioning.

Pay for the same length of service is about $1.50/hr higher with the company, health insurance costs are a quarter the price, 401k matching goes from 0%-5%, etc.

This is in a right to work state.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 23:40

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

zamin posted:

This is how my employer works. You don't apply with the actual company, you apply with the "variable workforce agency" that they contract with. However, after around 18-24 months with the agency, the company will usually hire you from the agency, in what's known as transitioning.

Pay for the same length of service is about $1.50/hr higher with the company, health insurance costs are a quarter the price, 401k matching goes from 0%-5%, etc.

This is in a right to work state.

Bhaal posted:

Putting it that way how do outsourcing and workforce agencies fit in?

As in, AcmeCo. needs a large 24/7 call center but doesn't want to add that many bodies to their employee roster (all those benefits, YUCK!). They handle the office space, equipment, etc and enter a contract with StaffCo. Now, if you wanted work at AcmeCo.'s call center, you would go to AcmeCo's building, interview and get hired by AcmeCo people, and from there you have an AcmeCo. boss, on AcmeCo customers and projects, a random of coworker in the break room could be employed by AcmeCo, could be StaffCo, AcmeCo assigns all your day to day, gives you some level of security access, accounts on their internal systems, sets your schedule, rules, can fire you, etc. Your check says StaffCo. There is no way to work for them directly, you have to go through StaffCo.

I'm trying to see how that is different from a union under the way you put it. It's interesting to me because in my youth I once held a lovely job at a StaffCo working for an AcmeCo. Our benefits were so awful that when the person conducting our orientation class told us the cost of getting insurance through them she immediately conceded (to a room full of shocked faces) that it is a terrible deal and she flat out pleaded with us to "find another way" to pick up medical insurance if we needed it. It was something like 15% of our gross pay if we worked a solid 40 each week. That was just the beginning of all the crap they could pull on the workers.

That place was like the employer anti-union but thinking back on it now it definitely behaved in the same way that you couldn't work there unless you went through them.

It isn't really any different, you're right. In a certain sense a labor union is just a collectively owned workforce agency. The difference between the two for right to work laws would be that you could theoretically work for AcmeCo without being a part of StaffCo, while with union shop contracts you have to be part of AcmeCo's union to do work for AcmeCo.

If there really was no way to work for them without being in the workforce corporation then that should be considered illegal under right to work laws IMO, although of course the courts would never rule that way.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 00:11

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Bhaal posted:

Putting it that way how do outsourcing and workforce agencies fit in?

As in, AcmeCo. needs a large 24/7 call center but doesn't want to add that many bodies to their employee roster (all those benefits, YUCK!). They handle the office space, equipment, etc and enter a contract with StaffCo. Now, if you wanted work at AcmeCo.'s call center, you would go to AcmeCo's building, interview and get hired by AcmeCo people, and from there you have an AcmeCo. boss, on AcmeCo customers and projects, a random of coworker in the break room could be employed by AcmeCo, could be StaffCo, AcmeCo assigns all your day to day, gives you some level of security access, accounts on their internal systems, sets your schedule, rules, can fire you, etc. Your check says StaffCo. There is no way to work for them directly, you have to go through StaffCo.

I'm trying to see how that is different from a union under the way you put it. It's interesting to me because in my youth I once held a lovely job at a StaffCo working for an AcmeCo. Our benefits were so awful that when the person conducting our orientation class told us the cost of getting insurance through them she immediately conceded (to a room full of shocked faces) that it is a terrible deal and she flat out pleaded with us to "find another way" to pick up medical insurance if we needed it. It was something like 15% of our gross pay if we worked a solid 40 each week. That was just the beginning of all the crap they could pull on the workers.

That place was like the employer anti-union but thinking back on it now it definitely behaved in the same way that you couldn't work there unless you went through them.

NLRB is on the way to making this illegal

# ? Aug 29, 2014 00:14

radical meme: Apr 17, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

The Bundy Clan continues to provide comic relief and fodder for late night tv hosts.

quote:

The son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy pulled his five children out of Clark County, Nev. schools on Thursday after getting into a disagreement with administrators over the ability to carry pocketknives at school.

The five students are the grandchildren of Cliven Bundy, a rancher who has previously engaged in armed clashes with the U.S. government over the use of federal land. The incident that sparked the removal involved Bundy's 15-year-old granddaughter whose school refused to allow her to bring a pocketknife to school, according to television station KSNV.
****************************
Bundy said he hopes the administration will allow the pocketknives on campus so that the issue can be resolved, a sentiment his daughter echoes.

"I hope that somehow (sic) figures this out because I still would like to go to this school," she said. "I really don't want to be homeschooled."

The Bundy solution is just loving let me do whatever I want to do.

I really feel that girl's cry for help.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 00:21

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

radical meme posted:

The Bundy Clan continues to provide comic relief and fodder for late night tv hosts.

The Bundy solution is just loving let me do whatever I want to do.

I really feel that girl's cry for help.

Between this and the ACE homeschooling thread I feel like making a donation to my local CPS department

# ? Aug 29, 2014 00:23

OAquinas: Jan 27, 2008; Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Haha I thought Gallup wasn't a lovely polling organization. Here's the followups to that right to work question.

Gallup Poll: Romney Leads Obama 52-45

Pretty much says it all.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 00:27

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

Kalman posted:

That's the thing, though (under the current legal interpretation) - you have the right to choose to remain silent in a very specific way. The fact that you have the right and haven't said anything doesn't mean that you have chosen that path, it means that you just haven't said anything.

Miranda isn't a right in quite the way people think of rights - it's more of a series of ritualized procedures designed to protect your other rights (e.g. Fifth amendment self incrimination rights, due process rights.) You have to be informed of your option to take advantage of these procedures, but until you exercise that option, the protections don't actually apply to you.

While I agree that it's a bad decision (or at least the reporting makes it out to be one, and Liu's dissent suggests the reporting is accurate), the idea that you have Miranda rights even before you invoke kind of misunderstands the entire concept of Miranda. You have those protections - but only if you ask for them. Same as right to counsel - you have the right, but you still have to ask. SCOTUS has previously said silence isn't invocation in Thompkins so that part isn't that surprising. It's more surprising that the pre-Miranda silence is being allowed to be held against the suspect.

Catching up with the thread, but at least in NY state, an attorney will be provided to you even if you do not request one. The right is automatic under the state's sixth amendment, and needs an affirmative negation by the defendant to be waived. Where are you getting this stuff?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 00:35

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 09:46

Fritz Coldcockin: Nov 7, 2005

Amergin posted:

It's not character assassination, the kid was a criminal. Or are you arguing he didn't rob that convenience store?

Didn't give the cops the right to shoot him.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 00:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Politics August - The Frontline in the War on Whites

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