Auspol August: Half-baked enraged drivel

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open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Auspol4Croydon

# ? Aug 29, 2014 02:34

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# ? May 25, 2024 00:47

LordNagash: Dec 29, 2012

Sanguine posted:

Any chance of something new actually coming out of this?

Refunds are necessary when there's a risk of buying a dud from a production batch, but they seem a bit pointless when there's 0 risk of the item being defective.

Pretty sure something already came out of it in the UK, where they have the same thing of it being illegal to just flat out refuse to refund money under any circumstances.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 02:42

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

I think getting a refund for your videogames may be slightly less important than the transition to a user-pays medical system that could see you dead without insurance.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 02:46

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

Endman posted:

I think getting a refund for your videogames may be slightly less important than the transition to a user-pays medical system that could see you dead without insurance.

You can take our lives, but you'll never take OUR FREEMAN!

# ? Aug 29, 2014 02:50

Pidgin Englishman: Apr 30, 2007; If you shoot
you better hit your mark

Zenithe posted:

I'm pretty sure the required returns policy also covers products not being as described, not just being faulty. So in this instance, if a product on steam was said to have features it didn't include you should be able to return it.

Yeah fair point, guess I'll have to get my steam rage hat on (which I coincidentally purchased via steam).

Palmersaurus posted:

I've got a few older games re-released onto steam that straight wont work with modern setups.
The dev is usually long gone, so there's no chance of a patch.

Huh, well that does suck. Some much for the 0 risk theory!

(also get old stuff from GoG, what is this)

# ? Aug 29, 2014 02:56

Pidgin Englishman: Apr 30, 2007; If you shoot
you better hit your mark

Endman posted:

I think getting a refund for your videogames may be slightly less important than the transition to a user-pays medical system that could see you dead without insurance.

Woah, woah. The freemarket is clearly established in vija games, we must protect it.

Healthcare is still in socialist hell, though, so no point taking it seriously till it is dragged into the light.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 02:57

LordNagash: Dec 29, 2012

Endman posted:

I think getting a refund for your videogames may be slightly less important than the transition to a user-pays medical system that could see you dead without insurance.

It sure is terrible living in this dystopia where we've been genetically engineered to only be able to care about one thing at a time, apparently.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 03:03

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

LordNagash posted:

It sure is terrible living in this dystopia where we've been genetically engineered to only be able to care about one thing at a time, apparently.

I didn't realise we lived in a dystopia because I was too worried about the healthcare systeOH MY GOD IT'S REAL

# ? Aug 29, 2014 03:04

Laserface: Dec 24, 2004

Haha, So the NBN was really just a way to get more homes connected to HFC ('cable' internet) so that foxtel reaches more homes, and keep those homes with foxtel connected to it because Rupes needs that PayTV money.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/553477/nbn_likely_share_hfc_foxtel/

quote:

National Broadband Network services and pay TV service Foxtel are likely to co-exist on the hybrid fibre-coaxial (HFC) network currently owned by Telstra, according to NBN Co CEO Bill Morrow.

Foxtel is 50:50 joint venture between Telstra and News Corporation.

"The nature of coaxial cable is that it gives you a great deal of bandwidth," Morrow said today during the presentation of NBN Co's annual results.

Both Telstra and Optus operate HFC networks in Australia. Under the rollout plan of the former Labor government, the networks were to be shutdown and users migrated to NBN fibre.

However, the Coalition government has directed NBN Co to complete the NBN's roll out employing a mix of technologies, not just the fibre-to-the premises technology mandated by Labor.

The two Australian HFC networks cover approximately 2.7 million premises, according to the NBN strategic review of its fixed line operations released last year.

"A further ~0.7 million premises are in the geographic area bounded by the networks, but currently not passed," the review states.

"Completing the construction of the HFC network to connect all premises within the geographic area that both networks bound would provide fast broadband to up to ~3.4 million premises."

A statement of expectations issued by the government to NBN Co in April directed the company to "integrate existing HFC networks into the rollout where this is feasible and economically beneficial, and provide for wholesale-only, open access operation of these".

"The intent with Telstra is that Foxtel will still be carried over [the existing HFC network]," Morrow said today.

"It leaves ample bandwidth on that cable for us to be able to offer the broadband services, and with the Optus network it's going to be free and clear available to us."

"It will still be over the same network for Foxtel is the way you should look at it," Morrow said.

"Over time we think over-the-top applications will eventually come in, but it will be our commitment to serve Foxtel for the duration they need it."

"The Foxtel spectrum is independent of the broadband spectrum we'll be using," NBN Co chief operating officer Greg Adcock said.

The future of the HFC networks are part of the negotiations with Telstra and Optus, Adcock said.

"We've done a lot of work looking at the feasibility and options around the HFC networks," the COO said.

"At this time, assuming NBN Co acquires an end-to-end HFC network, the HFC option still appears favourable. Accordingly, the HFC networks remain part of the dialog with both current asset owners � Telstra and Optus."

"The introduction of new equipment can also attract long supply and integration lead times and will be on the critical path of any HFC service delivery," Adcock said.

"Actions are already underway via an RFP with the supply market for most of the central and technically complex elements of the HFC networks that will require upgrading."

# ? Aug 29, 2014 03:04

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

quote:

Federal Social Services Minister Kevin Andrews has cancelled his plans to open a conference of the controversial World Congress of Families.

The forum features speakers who say abortion causes breast cancer, as well as homophobic speakers.

Mr Andrews issued a statement on Friday announcing he had decided not to attend the conference after learning it would be hosted by the far-right Catch the Fire Ministries.

In Victoria, controversial state Liberal backbencher Bernie Finn, who was due to speak at the conference, has also pulled out of the event.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...l#ixzz3Bk8kqBr0

What a tweest.

Edit: so the reason the last and final place they were going to have their forum was a secret was because it's the group behind the Rise Up Australia Party.

Lid fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 29, 2014

# ? Aug 29, 2014 03:15

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

Today I read the words "Brangelina: Hollywed" and I am now dumber for this experience. Thanks media.

Kevin Andrews:
"Tolerance is a critical value in a western liberal democracy like Australia. It was for this reason that I intended to address the World Congress of Families meeting in Melbourne tomorrow," Mr Andrews said in the statement.
"The calls for me not to attend demonstrate the intolerance of the Greens and the left - instead of arguing their case in the public arena they seek to shut down debate."

See the Greens are being intolerant for wanting me to not support a hate group. Bigots, right to be bigoted, all that you know.

hooman fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Aug 29, 2014

# ? Aug 29, 2014 03:24

Contra Duck: Nov 4, 2004; #1 DAD

hooman posted:

"The calls for me not to attend demonstrate the intolerance of the Greens and the left - instead of arguing their case in the public arena they seek to shut down debate."

Literally arguing in public is not the public arena but arguing behind closed doors at the secret headquarters of rise up australia is the public arena. Gotcha.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 03:35

Freudian Slip: Mar 10, 2007; "I'm an archivist. I'm archiving."

Nathan Tinkler takes the stand today (finally)

I have heard stories from my brother that one of things that Nathan did once he got rich was that he would not pay small contractors that had done work for him.

When they would ask to get paid, he would say nope take me to court and I will bury you in legal fees. This is for jobs only worth $5-25K. Nothing to him but enough to push a small business person into the red sometimes.

This is from a guy that used to work as an electrician.

I really hope that he does gaol time

# ? Aug 29, 2014 03:36

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

Nathan Tinkler is being Icac'd at the moment [img - Ron Paul its happening.gif]

# ? Aug 29, 2014 03:36

Freudian Slip: Mar 10, 2007; "I'm an archivist. I'm archiving."

Tinkler has pride and believes he is smarter than he is. I am really hoping that Watson gets him to commit perjury.

EDIT: Well that was a let down, it's already over

Freudian Slip fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Aug 29, 2014

# ? Aug 29, 2014 03:47

Pidgin Englishman: Apr 30, 2007; If you shoot
you better hit your mark

Freudian Slip posted:

Nathan Tinkler takes the stand today (finally)

I have heard stories from my brother that one of things that Nathan did once he got rich was that he would not pay small contractors that had done work for him.

When they would ask to get paid, he would say nope take me to court and I will bury you in legal fees. This is for jobs only worth $5-25K. Nothing to him but enough to push a small business person into the red sometimes.

This is from a guy that used to work as an electrician.

I really hope that he does gaol time

I helped my dad work on a yacht in Newport a few years back while we were re-doing the deck. We cozied up to the boat yard so we could use their stuff and do most of the work ourselves.

While we were there we saw, and heard plenty of stories of, the local yacht owners getting the bill and going 'nah, don't think so'. Was not uncommon for them to get the yacht and bugger off without paying the 5 or 10k bill. 'Eh, see me in court if ya want it'.

It was a minority of the customers by all means, but just an astounding attitude to have.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 04:16

Drugs: Jul 16, 2010; I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein

Sanguine posted:

I helped my dad work on a yacht in Newport a few years back while we were re-doing the deck. We cozied up to the boat yard so we could use their stuff and do most of the work ourselves.

While we were there we saw, and heard plenty of stories of, the local yacht owners getting the bill and going 'nah, don't think so'. Was not uncommon for them to get the yacht and bugger off without paying the 5 or 10k bill. 'Eh, see me in court if ya want it'.

It was a minority of the customers by all means, but just an astounding attitude to have.

It does not astound me at all that the types of people who own yachts would hold such attitudes

# ? Aug 29, 2014 04:20

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

Sanguine posted:

I helped my dad work on a yacht in Newport a few years back while we were re-doing the deck. We cozied up to the boat yard so we could use their stuff and do most of the work ourselves.

While we were there we saw, and heard plenty of stories of, the local yacht owners getting the bill and going 'nah, don't think so'. Was not uncommon for them to get the yacht and bugger off without paying the 5 or 10k bill. 'Eh, see me in court if ya want it'.

It was a minority of the customers by all means, but just an astounding attitude to have.

Take them to court for the original amount, plus costs, plus interest and a punitive charge for wasting yours and everybody else's loving time in the process.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 04:21

Orkin Mang: Nov 1, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Incidentally, I heard a story on some radio station--might have been Triple J--as I was driving through Sydney last week about a woman (a musician of some sort, or a graphic designer, or a writer, I don't quite remember) very roughly about 30 or so years old, who travels around the world in a yacht, by her self, for only thirty dollars a day. The presenter made a big deal about how this woman was living a life of adventure that all of us could live, but choose not to, due to some mix of complacency, fear and superficiality. A constant refrain was just how cheap it was for her to subsist while living the life of an explorer artist.

It was never explained how she got the yacht in the first place.

Orkin Mang fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Aug 29, 2014

# ? Aug 29, 2014 04:24

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Orkin Mang posted:

Incidentally, I heard a story on some radio station--might have been Triple J--as I was driving through Sydney last week about a woman (a musician of some sort, or a graphic designer, or a writer, I don't quite remember) very roughly about 30 or so years old, who travels around the world in a yacht, by her self, for only thirty dollars a day. The presenter made a big deal about how this woman was living a life of adventure that all of us could live, but choose not to, due to some mix of complacency, fear and superficiality. A constant refrain was just how cheap it was for her to subsist while living the life of an explorer artist.

It was never explained how she got the yacht in the first place.

Boot straps.

The see ya in court for a 5 K bill is based on the fee that their solicitor would charge to defend it and basically due to consumer protections a decent wig could tie your business in knots for years. Our legal system is already out of the reach of 'normal' people. IANAL.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 04:31

Negative Entropy: Nov 30, 2009

Ler posted:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...826-108nxo.html

Tony Abbott's visit to cancer hospital used to 'justify' fund-raising visit
Date August 27, 2014

Prime Minister Tony Abbott told government MPs he had to schedule an early morning visit to a cancer research centre in Melbourne on Tuesday so that he could justify billing taxpayers to be in the city for a "private function" the night before.

Mr Abbott made the admission at the regular meeting of Liberal and Nationals MPs after being taken to task by one his own senators for turning up an hour late.

Several MPs told Fairfax Media that the Prime Minister described the private function as a "fund-raiser" to the party room.

The issue came to a head when LNP senator Ian Macdonald, who has been a frequent critic of his own side since he was demoted from the frontbench after the election, told Mr Abbott his priority should have been the regular party room meeting, which is held every Tuesday morning when Parliament is sitting.

But Senator Macdonald was swiftly rebuked by colleagues including backbencher Ewen Jones, who said Senator Macdonald's constant criticism of his own team had "overstepped the mark".

"I have the highest regard for Ian as a man but the direction he has taken is unfortunate," Mr Jones said.

Several government sources told Fairfax Media they were stunned to hear the Prime Minister respond to Senator Macdonald's complaint by saying he had to schedule an official function on Tuesday morning so he could justify being in Melbourne for a fund-raiser the night before under entitlements.

Mr Abbott visited the Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre and told a news conference he was there to talk about the proposed Medical Research Future Fund.

He made no new announcements but reiterated his government's commitment to science and research.

The government wants to pay for the fund with some of the proceeds from the proposed $7 GP fee, which has been blocked in the Senate by Labor, the Palmer United Party and the Greens.

The Prime Minister's office did not deny Mr Abbott had made a fund-raising visit to Melbourne. A spokeswoman for Mr Abbott said: "The Prime Minister attended a private function in Melbourne [on Monday] night. All prime-ministerial travel is undertaken within entitlement.

"Whenever the Prime Minister travels he maximises his visits by ensuring he participates in community events, business visits and local media."

The spokeswoman confirmed the Prime Minister "ran a little late" to the joint party room meeting because his visit in Melbourne ran "over time".

She said the Prime Minister was a "passionate supporter" of medical research and "makes no apologies for his visit".

Mr Jones, who has been in Parliament for about four years, said the meeting was the first he could recall the Prime Minister being late for "in all my time here".
=============
Abbott flies to Melbourne in the evening for a Liberal Party fundraiser, ends up billing the public for the expenses, needs to justify it so he visits a hospital early the next morning as a cover.
Abbott ends up being late for a regular Liberal Party meeting, fellow fascist is pissed that Abbott made him wait more than an hour and spills the beans to the media. Gets demoted.

Adults in charge, Labor waste etc

Oh for fucks sake Tony. Just

Already

# ? Aug 29, 2014 04:35

Pidgin Englishman: Apr 30, 2007; If you shoot
you better hit your mark

Les Affaires posted:

Take them to court for the original amount, plus costs, plus interest and a punitive charge for wasting yours and everybody else's loving time in the process.

That's sorta how it usually went - but by the time court proceedings finally started they'd usually show up with the cheque and a 'no hard feelings, it's just business' grin. Was just a waste of everyone's time, to the point that small bills weren't worth chasing. I have no idea how assault charges didn't follow.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 04:45

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

Les Affaires posted:

Take them to court for the original amount, plus costs, plus interest and a punitive charge for wasting yours and everybody else's loving time in the process.

This only works if you have the capital to go through court till you get a verdict.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 04:59

Drugs: Jul 16, 2010; I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein

Don't places like Slater and Gordon and Maurice Blackburn not charge fees unless you win?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:01

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

Sanguine posted:

That's sorta how it usually went - but by the time court proceedings finally started they'd usually show up with the cheque and a 'no hard feelings, it's just business' grin. Was just a waste of everyone's time, to the point that small bills weren't worth chasing. I have no idea how assault charges didn't follow.

Ehh, if you know ahead of time that there's a good chance the customer can be a dick, it's possible to get around just by improving the quoting process. Get a purchase order, ensure your quote contains terms and conditions that state what actions can be taken to recover the cash.

At worst the customer will take their business elsewhere and you don't get the job but at least you're not exposing yourself to this kind of dick move.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:02

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

Alternatively have a one man sub waiting out in the water to torpedo their yachts as they leave and explain your up-front payment rescue policy.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:04

Milkfred E. Moore: Aug 27, 2006; 'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Haters Objector posted:

Don't places like Slater and Gordon and Maurice Blackburn not charge fees unless you win?

Yes and, if you win, you get much less because those guys - especially SnG - take a big chunk to cover all the cases they don't win.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:06

Maluco Marinero: Jan 18, 2001; Damn that's a
fine elephant.

Haters Objector posted:

Don't places like Slater and Gordon and Maurice Blackburn not charge fees unless you win?

IANAL but...

The issue is having an agreement ahead of time. If you've got nothing on paper with someone and they owe you for work, its not guaranteed you'll be able to recover legal costs.

If you get the estimate/quote on paper and signed for with a clause that they're liable for recovery costs, the lawyers are no drama as they can handle it and send the debtor the bill.

Went to a talk by a lawyer at our web dev meet up just the other night, and put simply, the cardinal sin is to not have a written agreement. If you forget that, nothing else is certain.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:12

Amethyst: Mar 28, 2004; I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

Genius.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:12

Amethyst: Mar 28, 2004; I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/tony-abbott-says-first-fleet-arrival-is-the-defining-moment-in-australian-history

quote:

Tony Abbott has nominated the arrival of the first fleet, along with the launch of Rupert Murdoch�s Australian newspaper and the publication of The Lucky Country, as defining moments in the nation�s history.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:15

Drugs: Jul 16, 2010; I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein

quote:

the publication of The Lucky Country

Donald Horne would have ripped this clown to shreds

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:23

Amethyst: Mar 28, 2004; I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

How is Abbott going to sell his foreign worker policy to his racist, anti-immigration base?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:37

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Amethyst posted:

How is Abbott going to sell his foreign worker policy to his racist, anti-immigration base?

How do you think Howard got immigration to record numbers?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:40

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Amethyst posted:

How is Abbott going to sell his foreign worker policy to his racist, anti-immigration base?

Also Master/Slave relationship

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:44

T-1000: Mar 28, 2010

Orkin Mang posted:

Incidentally, I heard a story on some radio station--might have been Triple J--as I was driving through Sydney last week about a woman (a musician of some sort, or a graphic designer, or a writer, I don't quite remember) very roughly about 30 or so years old, who travels around the world in a yacht, by her self, for only thirty dollars a day. The presenter made a big deal about how this woman was living a life of adventure that all of us could live, but choose not to, due to some mix of complacency, fear and superficiality. A constant refrain was just how cheap it was for her to subsist while living the life of an explorer artist.

It was never explained how she got the yacht in the first place.

It depends, a yacht doesn't necessarily cost all that much. Hers doesn't even have an engine, so it could well be fairly cheap. Maybe the same as a new car, definitely less than a house deposit. You can buy a decent one in poor condition and do it up - kind of like you used to be able to with houses.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:45

Centusin: Aug 5, 2009

Amethyst posted:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/tony-abbott-says-first-fleet-arrival-is-the-defining-moment-in-australian-history

That paragraph seems to really overstate the last two, the quote from later in the article is

"I hope that the defining moments of 1964, for instance, might include the launch of the Australian newspaper as well as the publication of The Lucky Country.�

Defining moments of 1964 is a bit different to defining moments in the nations history.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:54

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

T-1000 posted:

It depends, a yacht doesn't necessarily cost all that much. Hers doesn't even have an engine, so it could well be fairly cheap. Maybe the same as a new car, definitely less than a house deposit. You can buy a decent one in poor condition and do it up - kind of like you used to be able to with houses.

It's also worth mentioning that for every person that does this, there has to be tens of thousands more who live a normal life in order to sustain hers.

Unless she is living purely from fish caught by hand, weaving seaweed into clothing, and repairing her yacht using a cement made of faeces, urine and human hair, the materials she needs to live on that yacht can only come from a functioning worldwide economy.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 05:56

Pidgin Englishman: Apr 30, 2007; If you shoot
you better hit your mark

Les Affaires posted:

It's also worth mentioning that for every person that does this, there has to be tens of thousands more who live a normal life in order to sustain hers.

Unless she is living purely from fish caught by hand, weaving seaweed into clothing, and repairing her yacht using a cement made of faeces, urine and human hair, the materials she needs to live on that yacht can only come from a functioning worldwide economy.

Are you saying Waterworld won't come to be?

:colbert:

# ? Aug 29, 2014 06:00

Prof.Snugglesworth: Feb 9, 2009; Ooo...you make me live now honey.

quote:

Rundle: Ricky Muir, a closet lefty unionist in revhead clothing

Tony Abbott hoped he�d be able to beguile the oddball crossbenchers in the Senate, but revelations about Ricky Muir�s unionist past could prove a sticking point.

When the dust settled after the election last year and it became clear that the Senate had turned out to be, well, interesting, there was a widespread belief that it was a triumph for the Right and a disaster for the Left. The Greens had lost balance of power to a motley crew of micro- and pseudo-parties, most of which appeared to be from the oddball side of the Right. The new government cackled silently as a coal baron�s pet party, together with a libertarian and a �Family First� former Liberal, took the balance of power.

That hasn�t quite worked out as they planned � the Palmer party has positioned itself well to the Left of the spectrum on social services, David Leyonhjelm introduced a same-sex marriage bill, and everyone rejected the GP co-pay in its current form.

But perhaps the greatest surprise was Ricky Muir, the �revhead� whose major act to date was to save the Australian Renewable Energy Agency. Indeed, it seems even less likely that Muir is the reliable right-winger of their imaginings, with the Senator revealing that, during his years as a saw miller, he was a member of the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union � the union that the Abbott government is currently trying to bust and eventually deregister. Muir was not only a member of the CFMEU � he was a shop steward for it at the East Gippsland saw mill he worked at for a number of years, before his election to the Senate.

Muir hasn�t been going out of his way to advertise his CFMEU connections � it appears in none of the profiles of him published at the time of his election � but he doesn�t try to hide it, either. He confirmed to Crikey that he had been a shop steward for the Forestry division of the CFMEU for around two years in the 2000s, when he worked for the Gunns mill in Heyfield, East Gippsland, now owned by Australian Sustainable Hardwood. Muir says he put his hand up to be shop steward during a round of EAs negotiations, �to support and help his colleagues�, and that his fellow employees had had �concerns around entitlements�.

The news that Muir is a former bruvver won�t come as welcome news to the Abbott government, which has had the CFMEU in its sights for some time, running a witch-hunt in which the union is slated for standard business practices � establishing strike funds, dealing with dodgy corporate builders on behalf of the members who worked for them, and the like � which are constructed as inherently criminal activities.

Of course Muir was a member of CFMEU (Forestry), and the attacks are on CFMEU (Construction), and there are times when there has been no love lost between the two groups. But the government�s current onslaught is against the CFMEU in toto, and may generate a solidarity that the union could not create itself.

Muir has praise for the union, saying that they were supportive and there was �good communication when it was needed, and they provided training� for the role. Muir says that there was �generally a good relationship� between employers and union � but sources in the CFMEU say he�s being polite. �That wasn�t a friendly place,� said one official. �It would have taken some commitment to be a shoppie there.� Muir is more circumspect about the current government attacks on the CFMEU (Construction), saying that �like all unions, they have their place� � which suggests that he would not look favourably on the government�s ultimate aim, that of deregistration. �Individuals must be accountable for their actions,� he told Crikey, which all suggests that he doesn�t want the union as a whole hung out to dry.

This union history might well be something the Coalition would have wanted to know in planning its lines of attack � for the proposals the government is making, as regards re-establishing the ABCC, would make it easier for employers to deny building and other workers their entitlements such as RDOs and penalty rates. With Muir sitting in a useful swing position � if the government can get the support of PUP senators, plus right-wingers Bob Day and David Leyonhjelm, then Muir becomes their potential sixth crossbencher � treatment of his former union may well become a saw-point.