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Which version ya gettin? This poll is closed. |
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| Duck Hunt Dog |
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412 | 18.24% |
| Duck Hunt Dog |
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226 | 10.00% |
| Duck Hunt Dog |
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433 | 19.17% |
| Waluigi |
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1188 | 52.59% |
| Total: | 2259 votes | ||
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Excels posted:if you want to boil down any constructive or non-constructive discussion to "pissy" then yeah you are gonna be confused by this thread I mean, if the game was out and it played in a way that would make sense for you to get pissy about I could see why you would be. It would still be stupid, but it would be understandably stupid. Getting pissy based on pre launch quotes less so.
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Aug 29, 2014 08:39
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DoctorWhat posted:Wavedashing and L-Cancelling are dumb mechanics that are counterintuitive and are dissonant relative to how EVERY OTHER ACTION in Smash games are performed. That's the problem with Melee. I'll give you L-Cancelling, but how the hell is Wavedashing counter-intuitive? You airdash into the ground in a certain direction which is exactly how the airdodge worked in Melee. How was airdodging in the direction you held on the joystick counter-intuitive?
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Aug 29, 2014 08:45
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Geo Fixer posted:http://www.twitch.tv/newbzoors is currently streaming a 99 stock match between two level one Jigglypuff CPUs on temple. With 0.5 damage ratio, items on high, and only food. Now this is peak video games.
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Aug 29, 2014 08:46
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Sire Oblivion posted:I'll give you L-Cancelling, but how the hell is Wavedashing counter-intuitive? You airdash into the ground in a certain direction which is exactly how the airdodge worked in Melee. How was airdodging in the direction you held on the joystick counter-intuitive? Did you figure out wavedashing through playing Melee solo? Did the game ever convey the mechanic to the player? I'll argue that it's counter-intuitive to dodge into the ground and towards your opponent.
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Aug 29, 2014 08:47
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Sire Oblivion posted:I'll give you L-Cancelling, but how the hell is Wavedashing counter-intuitive? You airdash into the ground in a certain direction which is exactly how the airdodge worked in Melee. How was airdodging in the direction you held on the joystick counter-intuitive? Counter-intuitive in the sense that if you ask the question "What's the input to slide along the ground?", then "Perform a jump and then an angled air-dodge in rapid succession with a very particular timing" is a pretty weird and convoluted answer. Especially in a game where the input to throw a fireball is "B". Anyway, we interrupt this conversation to report that Sakurai has retweeted the Japan-only Nintendo Direct announcement. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Aug 29, 2014 |
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Aug 29, 2014 08:47
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Wild Knight posted:I met someone who does competitive Smash recently and I brought up Smash 4, and he said something like "yeah, they changed the edge guarding, so...we all know it's not going to be the game we want" and I'm like My experience with competitive players talking about Smash 4 has pretty much been the opposite. While initially they were taken aback by the changes they were generally pretty excited at discovering how the changes will affect everything, like how there should be no more ledge camping due to the lack of invincibility when re-grabbing the ledge. Sire Oblivion posted:I'll give you L-Cancelling, but how the hell is Wavedashing counter-intuitive? You airdash into the ground in a certain direction which is exactly how the airdodge worked in Melee. How was airdodging in the direction you held on the joystick counter-intuitive? Wavedashing may be pretty intuitive once you get good at it, but learning how to do it is not anywhere near intuitive in comparison to the rest of the game (though it does make Marth's ground game a hell of a lot of fun). Now if it had its own separate, dedicated button (like direction and L) then it would be much more intuitive, and would definitely make higher level Melee easier to approach. Black Mage Knight fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Aug 29, 2014 |
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Aug 29, 2014 08:55
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Did you figure out wavedashing through playing Melee solo? Did the game ever convey the mechanic to the player? I did, yeah, my friends and I called it Power Sliding for years
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Aug 29, 2014 08:55
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I heard that Ridley Jr. is in the game. He's a clone of Bowser Jr. and rides in Samus' helmet.
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Aug 29, 2014 08:57
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Countblanc posted:I did, yeah, my friends and I called it Power Sliding for years I can't imagine playing any Smash game in any sort of rhythm or style for wavedashing to be intuitive and useful.  The idea of discovering and implementing it on your own is absolutely bizarre to me, but I guess people play differently.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:03
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Simon Belmont will never be in Smash Bros because he'd have to look like this: instead of this:  and I don't think Sakurai could find it in himself to do that to people.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:04
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Obviously he would look like an human Launchpad McQuack.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:06
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Dabir posted:Simon Belmont will never be in Smash Bros because he'd have to look like this: Sakurai used the good versions of Mega Man and the larger yellow man, so he'd probably do Simon justice
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Aug 29, 2014 09:06
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Dabir posted:Simon Belmont will never be in Smash Bros because he'd have to look like this: the top looks more like his sprite with the red hair tbh
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Aug 29, 2014 09:07
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Monicro posted:I'm sorry but how self absorbed does one have to be to get this pissy at a quote that boils down to "yeah we're trying to find a middle ground between these two things that everyone can enjoy" it's p amazing
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Aug 29, 2014 09:07
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What are the odds that Smash 4 will be available for pre-order (or even better, pre-load)? I'd really like to just toss my money at Nintendo now and now have to deal with the rush on the eShop on the 3rd of October...
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Aug 29, 2014 09:09
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jivjov posted:What are the odds that Smash 4 will be available for pre-order (or even better, pre-load)? I'd really like to just toss my money at Nintendo now and now have to deal with the rush on the eShop on the 3rd of October... lamo if you think they'd do a pre-load now, in the wake of all the leaks p4 ultimax pre-load came out and hackers tore the game files wide open.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:13
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Excels posted:lamo if you think they'd do a pre-load now, in the wake of all the leaks Probably be more likely to get a pre-load now that everything's out in the wild. But anyway, if it was just, say 48 hours beforehand, the game would already be out in Japan, review copies would be everywhere, etc.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:15
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Geo Fixer posted:http://www.twitch.tv/newbzoors is currently streaming a 99 stock match between two level one Jigglypuff CPUs on temple. Well this rules.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:17
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Right now the Wii U firmware is at the point where you can pre-order DLC that will auto-download on release, but there doesn't seem to be a system in place to pre-order games or pre-load anything, and there's nothing similar at all on the 3DS. I'd be surprised if they implemented that update in time AND got SSB prepped for it. I kinda like the "cozy midnight launch" ritual, anyway. Hit up the eShop, keep the Gamepad on my desk as a download meter, work and websurf until it's ready to go. Good times.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:20
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Well the eshop treats the Mario Kart DLC as just another purchase, there's no special pre-order rigamarole. You're probably right that a pre-load is most likely not going to happen...but i don't think a pre-order is too far fetched.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:24
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Did you figure out wavedashing through playing Melee solo? Did the game ever convey the mechanic to the player? Yeah, I didn't have a name for it until I found out the internet called it Wavedashing much later. Supercar Gautier posted:Counter-intuitive in the sense that if you ask the question "What's the input to slide along the ground?", then "Perform a jump and then an angled air-dodge in rapid succession with a very particular timing" is a pretty weird and convoluted answer. Especially in a game where the input to throw a fireball is "B". There is no particular timing, it's like doing a shorthop or a full jump, if you jump a little too high and you don't dash immediately it's still a wavedash. Did you ever try airdashing into the ground? This is all basic experimenting with the game's mechanics. If you guys find that convoluted how do you deal with poo poo like Marvel or SF? Chakram posted:I can't imagine playing any Smash game in any sort of rhythm or style for wavedashing to be intuitive and useful. It's a fantastic spacing mechanic that doesn't limit your options like a quick dash would.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:26
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Sire Oblivion posted:If you guys find that convoluted how do you deal with poo poo like Marvel or SF? I would imagine that a fair number of people enjoy Smash because there's no tricky timing or convoluted inputs like you find in those kinds of fighting games. It's just hit A to punch or hit A and a direction at the same time to punch harder. The simplicity makes it fun and easy. I'm not saying that people who enjoy the complicated stuff are playing wrong, of course, but just rather saying why people like myself are not sorry to see it gone.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:29
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:I'm not saying that people who enjoy the complicated stuff are playing wrong no, but that's what sakurai was saying after he played brawl online, back in the day. i think he's rescinded that policy by viewing Melee and Brawl as separate things made for separate crowds
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Aug 29, 2014 09:30
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Dabir posted:Simon Belmont will never be in Smash Bros because he'd have to look like this: His designs have somehow gotten worse over the years.  
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Aug 29, 2014 09:33
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Sire Oblivion posted:If you guys find that convoluted how do you deal with poo poo like Marvel or SF? A lot of people who enjoy Smash don't enjoy Marvel or SF for this reason, actually. Fighting games do a notoriously bad job of explaining their mechanics to anyone not already versed in the gameplay and are one of the few genres left where 'experiment until you figure things out" is a major part of the genre.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:35
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Skullgirls honestly had one of the most intuitive, easy-to-grasp tutorials I have ever seen in a game, let alone a fighting game. Just pointing out that there's a structure to combos (light punch->light kick->medium punch->medium kick->hard punch->hard kick) was so basic but made the whole game's combo system so clear.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:42
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I mean personally, simply teching is hard enough to get the hang of, I never played Melee but wavedashing sounds particularly tricky, and a weird thing that seems more like an oversight than anything super intentional.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:45
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:I would imagine that a fair number of people enjoy Smash because there's no tricky timing or convoluted inputs like you find in those kinds of fighting games. It's just hit A to punch or hit A and a direction at the same time to punch harder. The simplicity makes it fun and easy. I'm not saying that people who enjoy the complicated stuff are playing wrong, of course, but just rather saying why people like myself are not sorry to see it gone. Smash is the only fighter I play due to it's simplicity as well but I'm not going to call games like SF and Marvel convoluted because I can never get good at them, that's some goofy poo poo. ImpAtom posted:A lot of people who enjoy Smash don't enjoy Marvel or SF for this reason, actually. Fighting games do a notoriously bad job of explaining their mechanics to anyone not already versed in the gameplay and are one of the few genres left where 'experiment until you figure things out" is a major part of the genre. So if everything isn't explained to it's now "convoluted?" Is experimenting with a game and finding out it's qwerks a bad thing, or is it not ok that a game has more depth than intended?
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Aug 29, 2014 09:45
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Sire Oblivion posted:So if everything isn't explained to it's now "convoluted?" Is experimenting with a game and finding out it's qwerks a bad thing, or is it not ok that a game has more depth than intended? To most people, especially people raised on modern games which do explain everything to them? Yes, it is. I mean it isn't just fighting games. I love Platinum games and a whole bunch of those have people who just find them genuinely unenjoyable experiences due to feeling impenetrable or convoluted. They don't explain themselves properly, are often somewhat unintuitive, and most importantly can leave players feeling unhappy or frustrated when they lose for reasons that seem outside their control. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Aug 29, 2014 |
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Aug 29, 2014 09:47
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Sire Oblivion posted:There is no particular timing, it's like doing a shorthop or a full jump, if you jump a little too high and you don't dash immediately it's still a wavedash. Did you ever try airdashing into the ground? This is all basic experimenting with the game's mechanics. This doesn't at all address why this particular input is what you do to slide around. It's an example of an input being severely abstracted from the intended action, in a game that's otherwise designed not to do that. You don't see that as dissonant?
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Aug 29, 2014 09:50
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ImpAtom posted:To most people, especially people raised on modern games which do explain everything to them? Yes, it is. There's a lot of seldom-used guitars in pawn shops because kids thought six strings and a fretboard were too convoluted but the feeling you get from figuring it out is hard to overstate. The feeling of learning something and doing well at it is such a fantastic feeling, whether its a lovely pawn shop guitar or a silly mascot fighting game. It's all just pushing through the rough early stage before it's all downhill and it all feels natural. It's easy to give up in the rough, that's why coming out the other side is so rewarding and a thing people feel good about.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:51
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Zellus posted:His designs have somehow gotten worse over the years. In case anyone has somehow never looked at or heard of Death Note, that is pretty much Light Yagami's head surgically(?) attached to a naked anime dude. Like that's not what it is, but that's exactly what it looks like. Ohba is a really good artist but goddamn he never moved past DN's artstyle. This design is essentially Ral Grad and Light Yagami mashed together.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:52
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Reiley posted:There's a lot of seldom-used guitars in pawn shops because kids thought six strings and a fretboard were too convoluted but the feeling you get from figuring it out is hard to overstate. The feeling of learning something and doing well at it is such a fantastic feeling, whether its a lovely pawn shop guitar or a silly mascot fighting game. It's all just pushing through the rough early stage before it's all downhill and it all feels natural. It's easy to give up in the rough, that's why coming out the other side is so rewarding and a thing people feel good about. The problem is that a lot of people don't care about that. They don't have the time, energy or interest. There are countless other games on the market that offer the same rewarding feeling of 'getting good' without actually requiring you to put the effort in. There is unarguably a crowd for whom this is an appealing and interesting thing to do, but they are a fairly specific group with a fairly specific mindset.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:53
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I find some fighting games perfectly playable to some extent (P4 Arena, Blazblue, Skullgirls) while others (Street Fighter) just feel extremely awkward to play even on a really easy difficulty. Then again I'm pretty sure if I played at any difficulty other than easy I would get wrecked because I'm really bad at fighting games.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:55
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A large part of the reason I like Smash and not other fighting games is that there are no combos to memorize. Each character has the same number of moves and they're all done with the same input. I don't want to remember that this attack is quarter circle strong attack and it can combo into these three other moves that each has a unique input and all of these attacks are different for each character. I don't care enough to put in the effort to remember all that.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:56
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Arena has autocombos, Blazblue has Beginner Mode (does cool poo poo for you by mashing buttons) and Skullgirls as stated has a really good, simple tutorial that makes it beginner friendly. Also no matter what you're doing in any of those three, it is guaranteed fun to watch. Games like SFIV are obviously targeted at the very specific niche that obsesses over it, which is why it's been re-released with patches and new poo poo about six hundred goddamn times Excels fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Aug 29, 2014 |
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Aug 29, 2014 09:57
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Zellus posted:His designs have somehow gotten worse over the years. That last one's not so bad. Different Simon Belmont though.
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Aug 29, 2014 09:57
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Excels posted:Arena has autocombos, Blazblue has Beginner Mode (does cool poo poo for you by mashing buttons) and Skullgirls as stated has a really good, simple tutorial that makes it beginner friendly. Also no matter what you're doing in Skullgirls it is guaranteed to be fun to watch. I don't want to play a game that plays itself for me. If I wanted to do that I'd play an FPS on a console. I'm not saying that needing to memorize stuff is bad, just that it doesn't interest me, which is part of the reason I like Smash.
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Aug 29, 2014 10:00
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Countblanc posted:lol @ "opponent-based action game," aka "literally every real-time game ever" It's clear that you haven't reached the zen-like excellence that Sakurai (and to a lesser extent myself) has if that isn't the most enlightening thing you've ever heard about anything. I'm actually selling all my possessions in order to live a more humble life. I'm going to break my wrists in order to better emulate Him. Stigmata? That shits weaksauce.
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Aug 29, 2014 10:01
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 11:33 |
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space invaders was an "opponent based action game"
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Aug 29, 2014 10:02
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