Magic: The Gathering: The Megathread: Tenth Edition

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Magic: The Gathering: The Megathread: Tenth Edition

Sleep of Bronze: Feb 9, 2013; If I could only somewhere find Aias, master of the warcry, then we could go forth and again ignite our battle-lust, even in the face of the gods themselves.

News: Like the extra cards from the 'sample decks' this year which weren't technically in M15 (Serra Angel etc), the new beginner's product line will be standard legal even if it's not an official set. They consider what they did with Portal a mistake.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 13:52

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 3, 2024 07:04

InterrupterJones: Nov 10, 2012; Me and the boys on the way to kill another demon god

Devor posted:

If Evil Eye of Urborg is in play can Mutavault attack? It's an eye, but it's also a non-eye. I feel like it can't attack.

I actually have a somewhat funny story about Evil Eye of Ugin. When I went to the Future Sight prerelease many years ago, it won me a round almost single-handedly. I guess that's what happens when you also pull an artifact that gives it flying, first strike, trample, and vigilance among other things. Ah, that was a fun limited experience.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 14:01

Xeom: Mar 16, 2007

So is there a good article that explains card value ? I've been playing hearthstone for a while and want to try magic. I've read some other articles, but couldn't find anything solid on card value.

Also would goons recommend a deck building toolkit for starting out ?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 14:27

mbt: Aug 13, 2012

Xeom posted:

So is there a good article that explains card value ? I've been playing hearthstone for a while and want to try magic. I've read some other articles, but couldn't find anything solid on card value.

Define card value. Like why certain cards are good?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 14:39

Cernunnos: Sep 2, 2011; ppbbbbttttthhhhh~

Xeom posted:

So is there a good article that explains card value ? I've been playing hearthstone for a while and want to try magic. I've read some other articles, but couldn't find anything solid on card value.

Also would goons recommend a deck building toolkit for starting out ?

If by value you mean what makes a card worth playing it's really subjective based on what the deck is trying to do.
If by value you mean money then that's all card evaluation (which we are bad at) and whether or not it sees enough play. (Planeswalkers excepted)

The Deckbuilder's Toolkit is a decent enough place to start. Though it won't necessarily get you a very good deck.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 14:40

Xeom: Mar 16, 2007

Card value as in term of which card is more valuable to play, not monetary value. Also if the deck building kit isn't isn't ideal, what is ?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 14:48

Cernunnos: Sep 2, 2011; ppbbbbttttthhhhh~

Depends on what you want to do. You can look at some decklists online, pick one and buy the cards that make it up in Singles.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 14:54

Sickening: Jul 16, 2007; Black summer was the best summer.

Xeom posted:

Card value as in term of which card is more valuable to play, not monetary value. Also if the deck building kit isn't isn't ideal, what is ?

Well hearthstone is very different than magic. The terms you are using aren't going to match up very well.

Another thing you are going to have to get use to is that good/popular cards are going to be more expensive based on their rarity.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 14:56

mbt: Aug 13, 2012

Xeom posted:

Card value as in term of which card is more valuable to play, not monetary value. Also if the deck building kit isn't isn't ideal, what is ?

There isn't a list of rules on what to play when, it's entirely situational. And depending on the format Magic has 10000+ cards :v:

# ? Aug 29, 2014 14:56

Serperoth: Feb 21, 2013

Xeom posted:

Card value as in term of which card is more valuable to play, not monetary value. Also if the deck building kit isn't isn't ideal, what is ?

Value is value, you really learn it by playing a lot, watching specific metagames (Sphinx's Revelation is a very valuable card in its Standard niche, but worthless in U/W decks in Legacy for example).
You can even look at cards for specific slots and see what is better/worse for what you want to do. Magic has a lot of depth, and 'strictly better' cards are not too common, especially as effects pile up.
For example:
Lightning Bolt is strictly better than Shock.
Lightning Bolt is strictly better than Lightning Strike

But comparing these two cards is where you get into metagame specifics. In a faster meta, with more smaller creatures, where a single mana matters more early on, Shock is more often than not better than Lightning Strike. But in a meta where 2 damage doesn't cut it, Strike is better than Shock.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 14:59

LordSaturn: Aug 12, 2007; sadly unfunny

Xeom posted:

Card value as in term of which card is more valuable to play, not monetary value. Also if the deck building kit isn't isn't ideal, what is ?

I mean, we could lecture you on card advantage and tempo and such, but have you ever actually played Magic? Go mess with Duels of the Planeswalkers, it'll give you a much better starting point for "what the gently caress is Magic" and "what the gently caress do I want to do in Magic".

# ? Aug 29, 2014 15:15

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

Reid Duke (who is a notable Good At Magic person) has a recent article on Card Advantage, which is basically half the story of what makes a card "valuable".

(The other half is tempo, which is essentially about how efficiently you can leverage the cards in your hand into an advantage on the board. Extra cards don't particularly matter if you only have the mana to play one of them a turn, and have lost before you've managed to play them all.)

# ? Aug 29, 2014 15:25

PhyrexianLibrarian: Feb 21, 2004; Compleat silence, please

Xeom posted:

So is there a good article that explains card value ? I've been playing hearthstone for a while and want to try magic. I've read some other articles, but couldn't find anything solid on card value.

Also would goons recommend a deck building toolkit for starting out ?

Sounds like you're borrowing terminology from sites like ArenaValue, which basically give you a numerical "value" of how good a card is to draft during deckbuilding.

There's really no analogy to Magic there, especially not in drafting with real people, where the cards you pick will influence the cards your opponents pick and vice versa. The Deckbuilder's Toolkit is fine, but picking up the M15 Clash Pack from your local game store will give you two decks that are decently built and a great way to explore the mechanics of the game that are actually relevant in Standard (the most popular format).

# ? Aug 29, 2014 15:26

do u believe in marigolds: Sep 13, 2007

InterrupterJones posted:

I actually have a somewhat funny story about Evil Eye of Ugin. When I went to the Future Sight prerelease many years ago, it won me a round almost single-handedly. I guess that's what happens when you also pull an artifact that gives it flying, first strike, trample, and vigilance among other things. Ah, that was a fun limited experience.

I've had Akroma's Memorial make even 3/3 boar tokens a threat just because of its power alone. And I didn't have any bounce spells in my hand so there was no way for me to remove it. And I forgot it was there because I don't see it ran often.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 15:28

Boxman: Sep 27, 2004; Big fan of

I still think it's weird that this thread has no "so you want to start playing" post. I took a crack at it - literally no editing or thought went into this, so please add/subtract/modify it. I'll keep an eye on comments on it moving forward, try to get it to a general consensus. Maybe one day it can be in the OP. :allears:

quote:

So you want to start playing

Welcome! This game is a never ending cycle of whining about randomness and throwing money into an endless vortex, but you�ll never have more fun. Figuring out how to get started can be tricky, but we�re here to help!

The best way to learn the rules is by going to Steam or your relevant tablet�s app store and downloading the newest Duels of the Planeswalkers. The current version is 2015 (they release a new one annually in the early summer). Duels is Magic-lite. 95% of the rules are in place, but the card pool is carefully constructed to provide a nice, limited environment. It also features the best tutorial for learning the game, bar none.

When you want to pick up some paper, go to your local game store that carries Magic. Wizards of the Coast provides all stores with 30-card sample decks that they are not allowed to charge money for. Just ask for a couple of those and you�ll be good to go. The sample decks also include rules inserts, if you want to try learning that way, but teaching yourself or learning the game with a friend can be difficult at best. The best ways to learn the game are Duels or learning from someone else.

Now that you know the basics of the game, the world is your oyster! There are a couple ways to go from here. I�ll be referencing formats in the OP.

The best way to move forward, in my opinion, is to find a store that runs weekly drafts and hit that up. It�s a little more expensive on a week-to-week basis, but the upfront cost is basically zero and you�re playing on a level playing field with everyone else (eliminating the �whoever pays most wins� stigma that comes with the game). It can be very intimidating, but don�t let it get to you! Let people know you�re new, and if your shop doesn�t suck, everyone will have a good time (if your shop sucks and people give you poo poo for drafting poorly then find another store and vent here). Plus, odds are good that people will be more than happy to dump their commons and uncommons on you - people who draft regularly have more of that poo poo than we know what to do with.

Maybe you want to play constructed? This is a bit trickier, since you�ll need a deck. The easiest way is to take two of the sample decks that the store gave you and mash them together. That will give you a (very bad) 60 card deck you can use at FNM. You can also step up and buy an intro pack or an event deck and use it straight out of the box. You probably won�t win much, but you�ll get a feel for constructed Magic. Products like the Deck Builder�s Toolkit are of dubious value for tournament play - the cards they give you aren�t great, but if you�re just futzing around the kitchen table, they can be pretty solid.

Oh, yeah - never buy booster packs unless you want the thrill of opening them (and if you want that, you should probably draft). The expected value on them is complete poo poo.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 15:52

Otherkinsey Scale: Jul 17, 2012; Just a little bit of sunshine!

InterrupterJones posted:

Evil Eye of Ugin

Costs 4B but is colorless, non-Eye creatures you control can't attack, whenever it becomes blocked search your library for a colorless creature?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 15:53

Gensuki: Sep 2, 2011

Carrasco posted:

Costs 4B but is colorless, non-Eye creatures you control can't attack, whenever it becomes blocked search your library for a colorless creature?

I'd think it would be non-colorless creatures, but that's a weird double negative, and supports artifact decks a bit too much... It also supports morphs though. Also fun note, Morphs are colorless in the set where we might see Ugin. I'd like him to be a planeswalker with morph, maybe...

4WU

Ugin is Colorless

Morph 4

WU +Ghostfire puts him in Jeskai, whose symbol is the eye, and lets him have the W-B rivalry against Bolas who REALLY SHOULD be in this block somewhere.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:01

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

The clan quiz thing has some art I don't think was shown elsewhere.

+ one or two that we've seen before

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:24

Barry Shitpeas: Dec 17, 2003; there is no need
to be upset

Winner POTM July 2013

Sam Stoddard's preview card for next week costs XXBBBB, which has to be delve, surely. My guess is reanimate X creatures

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:28

LaTex Fetish: Oct 11, 2010

i got the temur clan because I am a savage

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:43

Veyrall: Apr 23, 2010; The greatest poet this
side of the cyberpocalypse

Barry Shitpeas posted:

Sam Stoddard's preview card for next week costs XXBBBB, which has to be delve, surely. My guess is reanimate X creatures

Haven't we already had this discussion? The Sultai mechanic is not delve. I believe this so hard that I'll quote myself...

Veyrall posted:

The Sultai mechanic is not delve.

When I'm proven right, I will never, ever stop smugging.

Veyrall fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Aug 29, 2014

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:46

OssiansFolly: Aug 3, 2012; Suffering at the factory of sadness every year.

Esser-Z posted:

I need morph tokens of a bear suit with obvious zipper, stat.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:50

neetengie: Jul 17, 2013; Shittiest taste in anime and video games.

Rinkles posted:

The clan quiz thing has some art I don't think was shown elsewhere.

+ one or two that we've seen before

Where is the clan quiz?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:51

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

It more or less has to be a cost reducer or alternate cost of some kind, because a card that costs 6 mana for 1, or 10 mana for 2, is kind of dumb to make an X spell instead of just baking it in at X=1.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:51

LaTex Fetish: Oct 11, 2010

neetengie posted:

Where is the clan quiz?

http://promos.wizards.com/chooseyourclan/

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:51

LordSaturn: Aug 12, 2007; sadly unfunny

Jabor posted:

It more or less has to be a cost reducer or alternate cost of some kind, because a card that costs 6 mana for 1, or 10 8 mana for 2, is kind of dumb to make an X spell instead of just baking it in at X=1.

C'mon, check your math.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:55

neetengie: Jul 17, 2013; Shittiest taste in anime and video games.

LaTex Fetish posted:

http://promos.wizards.com/chooseyourclan/

quote:

IT�S TIME TO PARTY! WHAT CD DO YOU BRING?

loving retarded. Got Azban anyways.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:57

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

LordSaturn posted:

C'mon, check your math.

You're right, I'm tired. Probably bad to speculate at 2am or whatever.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:58

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

Rinkles posted:

The clan quiz thing has some art I don't think was shown elsewhere.

+ one or two that we've seen before

That's some bad cat-breath.

Is that meant to be Ajani, or are there other Leonin on Tarkir?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:09

Obscil: Feb 28, 2012; PLEASE LIKE ME!

Entropic posted:

That's some bad cat-breath.

Is that meant to be Ajani, or are there other Leonin on Tarkir?

It's a Rakshasa. They're cat demons. This probably a demonic tutor variant.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:12

Froghammer: Sep 8, 2012; Khajit has wares
if you have coin

Entropic posted:

That's some bad cat-breath.

Is that meant to be Ajani, or are there other Leonin on Tarkir?

It's almost certainly a Rakshasa

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:13

Cernunnos: Sep 2, 2011; ppbbbbttttthhhhh~

Entropic posted:

That's some bad cat-breath.

Is that meant to be Ajani, or are there other Leonin on Tarkir?

Rakshasa

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:13

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

Entropic posted:

That's some bad cat-breath.

Is that meant to be Ajani, or are there other Leonin on Tarkir?

From the Sultai, I think.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:13

mbt: Aug 13, 2012

Jabor posted:

It more or less has to be a cost reducer or alternate cost of some kind, because a card that costs 6 mana for 1, or 10 mana for 2, is kind of dumb to make an X spell instead of just baking it in at X=1.

It's gonna be some dumb EDH only card, because even though EDH has its own sets, wizards likes to waste rare slots with this kind of garbage. I really hope I'm wrong. A reanimator for 6 also blows.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:14

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

Rinkles posted:

From the Sultai, I think.

[s ]

[/s] :catbugs:

I can't wait.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:15

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

Mortimer posted:

It's gonna be some dumb EDH only card, because even though EDH has its own sets, wizards likes to waste rare slots with this kind of garbage. I really hope I'm wrong. A reanimator for 6 also blows.

Well Stoddard is "almost positive [it] will make a splash in Standard"

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:16

bhsman: Feb 10, 2008; by exmarx

Veyrall posted:

Haven't we already had this discussion? The Sultai mechanic is not delve. I believe this so hard that I'll quote myself...

When I'm proven right, I will never, ever stop smugging.

Is this what you believe or what you've been told?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:16

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

neetengie posted:

loving retarded. Got Azban anyways.

Yeah I don't get it either. I thought you were supposed to be a pre-industrial wizard.

Jessica pictures are cool. I hope they have more intense meditation for control canards. Maybe a representation of no-mind somehow.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:17

Vomax: Oct 12, 2005; ?

There are like a dozen species in that small collection of art. I guess we can assume there won't be many tribal mechanics.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:17

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 3, 2024 07:04

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

Obscil posted:

It's a Rakshasa. They're cat demons. This probably a demonic tutor variant.

Where do you guys get your flavor info?

# ? Aug 29, 2014 17:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Magic: The Gathering: The Megathread: Tenth Edition

«‹›882 »