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Waffleman_ posted:Another fun thought experiment is imagining Hercules summoned as another class instead of Berserker, since it's said that he could be summoned into any class but Caster. I wonder what an assassin Hercules would look like? ActionZero posted:Arturia has Excalibur and Avalon which are both kind of a big deal. Lancelot is probably more skillful in combat though and Arondight isn't nothing. Assuming her master has and tells her about Avalon.
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Aug 22, 2014 20:49
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Yeah, Lancelot is supposed to be a better fighter than Arthur, but not by a whole lot I think. But when it comes to Arturia as Saber and Lancelot as Berserker, Saber is at least evenly matched with him as long as he doesn't pull Arondight out. It's not like Saber knew the specifics of Berserker's Master, and she still managed to dodge his attacks long enough to stay alive and gradually get closer to him. Still, if you have Lancelot as Saber and Arturia as Saber, just as a hypothetical, it would probably come down to swords. Then Saber would need to be the one keeping her distance, since I don't think I've ever heard Arondight has a powerful ranged attack like Excalibur. All Saber really would need in that fight would be one really good hit to take him out, like she did to Rider's chariot. That would be a pretty awesome fight to see, I have to say.
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Aug 22, 2014 21:32
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The metric I use for how strong Lancelot is the following: when Fate/Zero was coming out, my friend was taking an Arthurian Legend class. So for all intents and purposes, he was basically a scholar on many different interpretations and mythologies of the Arthurian Legend at that time. When Zero Berserker's identity was finally revealed (or finalized since he obviously was guessing Lancelot for the longest time), his exact words were, "Oh poo poo, Saber is so hosed." Lancelot is basically a better fighter than King Arthur in every form he shows up in and has an instance where he beats King Arthur in a fight. The whole thing about King Arthur being the strongest saber probably has more to do with how broken Avalon is.
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Aug 22, 2014 21:41
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Twiddy posted:The metric I use for how strong Lancelot is the following: when Fate/Zero was coming out, my friend was taking an Arthurian Legend class. So for all intents and purposes, he was basically a scholar on many different interpretations and mythologies of the Arthurian Legend at that time. When Zero Berserker's identity was finally revealed (or finalized since he obviously was guessing Lancelot for the longest time), his exact words were, "Oh poo poo, Saber is so hosed." I mean, its a pretty bog standard case of anime abusing the whole authority equaling asskicking thing. The king is always the king because they can kick everyone else's rear end in a fight.
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Aug 22, 2014 21:59
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Twiddy posted:The metric I use for how strong Lancelot is the following: when Fate/Zero was coming out, my friend was taking an Arthurian Legend class. So for all intents and purposes, he was basically a scholar on many different interpretations and mythologies of the Arthurian Legend at that time. When Zero Berserker's identity was finally revealed (or finalized since he obviously was guessing Lancelot for the longest time), his exact words were, "Oh poo poo, Saber is so hosed." Where was Arturia said to be the strongest Saber, anyway? Hercules and Gawain are both pretty strong too, depending on the circumstances.
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Aug 22, 2014 22:03
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She surely is the heroic spirit more suitable to the saber class. There is no pair "hero+sword" more famous than Arthur and Excalibur, after all.
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Aug 22, 2014 22:09
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Silver2195 posted:Where was Arturia said to be the strongest Saber, anyway? Hercules and Gawain are both pretty strong too, depending on the circumstances. I looked it up it's the first episode. Jubstacheit is talking about Avalon and says it will allow them to summon a sword wielding Heroic Spirit that is perhaps the strongest of servants.
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Aug 22, 2014 22:15
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Silver2195 posted:Where was Arturia said to be the strongest Saber, anyway? Hercules and Gawain are both pretty strong too, depending on the circumstances. So was she the Saber in the first First through Third wars too? It seems like her "deal" should require that, right? But I think they said somewhere in HA that it wasn't actually Arturia in the Third war? Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 23:06
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I think one of the wars had two Sabers.
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Aug 22, 2014 23:26
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Waffleman_ posted:I think one of the wars had two Sabers. Hollow Ataraxia spoilers: That was the Third War. Due to their family's unique two-part Magic Crest, the Edelfelt sisters, taking up a single "slot," both summoned Saber-class Servants, which were two different aspects of the same Heroic Spirit (represented by the normal Arturia and her Saber Alter version in Bazett's dream world, though they weren't necessarily Arturias in the actual Third War). I like the idea that one sister summoned an Arturia who had just gone through the events of Fate or UBW and the other summoned one who had just gone through the events of HF, but that's probably contradicted somewhere. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 00:18
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Gaius Marius posted:I wonder what an assassin Hercules would look like? Heracles can't be an assassin, either. Technically, the only person able to be summoned as an assassin is one of the several individuals who took the name Hassan ibn al Sabbah. Sasaki Koujirou was an oddity since he was irregularly summoned. A saber or rider class Lancelot would've been nutso not only because he could probably beat Arturia in a one-on-one, but because he would have been able to use his illusionary mask ability without the need of a command seal in addition to his noble phantasm theft ability.
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Aug 23, 2014 00:35
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AlternateNu posted:Heracles can't be an assassin, either. Technically, the only person able to be summoned as an assassin is one of the several individuals who took the name Hassan ibn al Sabbah. Sasaki Koujirou was an oddity since he was irregularly summoned. Jack and Semiramis prove that this "rule" is more of a guideline.
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Aug 23, 2014 00:39
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Silver2195 posted:Jack and Semiramis prove that this "rule" is more of a guideline. Apocrypha doesn't count since it is a different Grail. It is like the Moon Cell in the PSP games. Different source for the summoning. The mainline greater grail can only bring in Hassan. Only Hassan! HASSSSSSAAAANNN!
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Aug 23, 2014 00:41
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AlternateNu posted:Apocrypha doesn't count since it is a different Grail. Nope, same Grail. Darnic just stole it and moved it to Romania. Extra and Strange Fake do involve different Grails, though.
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Aug 23, 2014 00:43
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Would John Wilkes Booth count as an assassin?
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Aug 23, 2014 00:44
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Beef Waifu posted:Would John Wilkes Booth count as an assassin? Hey. If Shakespeare can be a Caster, why the gently caress not? I will say, though. There have been some pretty awesome concepts for assassin in the secondary material. One was a manifestation of the black plague. And Jack would've be great if the design was a little less.......otaku-bait.
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Aug 23, 2014 00:51
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AlternateNu posted:One was a manifestation of the black plague. The story this appears in is actually getting a full novel series made! It also has a different Jack the Ripper as a Berserker, who was so mad, Mad Enhancement actually tips him back over to sane. Also Gilgamesh is back, and Enkidu is Lancer! There's also no Saber, but the seventh Master has multiple command spells and can summon multiple Servants.
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Aug 23, 2014 00:58
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Archer Heracles would be the best because those arrows would probably be like artillery shells and put Archer Shirou to shame but alas we'll never see it happen like Caster Cu Chulainn or Saber Diarmuid.
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Aug 23, 2014 00:59
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Beef Waifu posted:Would John Wilkes Booth count as an assassin? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUjG1HSSaGI Abe can be berserker.
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Aug 23, 2014 01:17
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Can Batman kill servants?
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Aug 23, 2014 01:18
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Sylphid posted:I don't think I've ever heard Arondight has a powerful ranged attack like Excalibur. Arondight is an anti-unit noble phantasm compared to Excalibur's anti-fortress status so its activated power is probably a monstrously powerful physical attack probably affected in some way by being corrupted into a demonic sword when Lancelot killed his fellow knights with it, it also apparently has an "anti-dragon attribute" due to being used against dragons so much, and apparently Arturia counts as vulnerable to anti-dragon stuff because type moon. So yeah, Arondight is basically a perfect weapon to go against Arturia with.
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Aug 23, 2014 01:55
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ActionZero posted:Arondight is an anti-unit noble phantasm compared to Excalibur's anti-fortress status so its activated power is probably a monstrously powerful physical attack probably affected in some way by being corrupted into a demonic sword when Lancelot killed his fellow knights with it, it also apparently has an "anti-dragon attribute" due to being used against dragons so much, and apparently Arturia counts as vulnerable to anti-dragon stuff because type moon. That's true. Forgot about Arondight's anti-dragon thing. Good thing the Einzberns got on the ball with summoning a Saber first.
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Aug 23, 2014 03:39
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Beef Waifu posted:Can Batman kill servants?
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Aug 23, 2014 03:49
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Waffleman_ posted:The story this appears in is actually getting a full novel series made! It also has a different Jack the Ripper as a Berserker, who was so mad, Mad Enhancement actually tips him back over to sane. Also Gilgamesh is back, and Enkidu is Lancer! There's also no Saber, but the seventh Master has multiple command spells and can summon multiple Servants. Is that the one by the Baccanno guy with Dumas as Caster?
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Aug 23, 2014 07:02
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Gaius Marius posted:Is that the one by the Baccanno guy with Dumas as Caster? Indeed. Also, if you pay close attention, the Player is "A" from the ghost story at the beginning of Hollow Ataraxia.
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Aug 23, 2014 14:00
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Fate/Strange Fake is actually the first piece of Fate media I've been really excited for in a while. The series has been kinda underwhelming to me lately, though part of that may be that I never gave Apocrypha a chance because of its initial focus on Jack.
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Aug 23, 2014 16:48
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It's honestly pretty lame that Arturia is in every single war ever no matter what. Or someone who is identical to her at least.
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Aug 29, 2014 05:40
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Honest Ray posted:It's honestly pretty lame that Arturia is in every single war ever no matter what. Or someone who is identical to her at least. There are no Saber clones in Strange Fake.
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Aug 29, 2014 05:51
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She's the face of the fate series and also hands down the most popular character.
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Aug 29, 2014 05:51
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The only Saber clone that annoys me is Nero, because it's so contrived for her to look like that. For one thing, I don't even get the impression that Nero hid her gender while she was alive, so it makes no sense that even Nero's worst enemies never claim that he was a woman. I have no problem with Jeanne and Mordred because Jeanne looking like Arturia was a plot point in Zero, and Mordred is a literal clone of Arturia.
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Aug 29, 2014 05:55
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Silver2195 posted:The only Saber clone that annoys me is Nero, because it's so contrived for her to look like that. For one thing, I don't even get the impression that Nero hid her gender while she was alive, so it makes no sense that even Nero's worst enemies never claim that he was a woman. Nero was actually kind of an interesting character but her looking just like Arturia and being a woman was almost as dumb as Nero being considered a hero. Francis Drake being gender swapped in that game was also weird.
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Aug 29, 2014 06:04
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Gaius Marius posted:Nero was actually kind of an interesting character but her looking just like Arturia and being a woman was almost as dumb as Nero being considered a hero. Francis Drake being gender swapped in that game was also weird. Nero and Drake are both awesome though 
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Aug 29, 2014 06:09
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Gaius Marius posted:Nero was actually kind of an interesting character but her looking just like Arturia and being a woman was almost as dumb as Nero being considered a hero. Francis Drake being gender swapped in that game was also weird. It was left out of the lovely translation, but it's strongly implied that "Drake" is actually Queen Elizabeth I in disguise.
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Aug 29, 2014 06:12
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Rodyle posted:Nero and Drake are both awesome though I ain't gonna argue with that. Unless you mean real life Nero who was a unexperinced nut job who bankrupted one of the richest countries in the world. Silver2195 posted:It was left out of the lovely translation, but it's strongly implied that "Drake" is actually Queen Elizabeth I in disguise. Huh seems like she should've been kind of busy running her country but whatever.
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Aug 29, 2014 06:14
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Gaius Marius posted:I ain't gonna argue with that. Unless you mean real life Nero who was a unexperinced nut job who bankrupted one of the richest countries in the world. The real Drake was running the country, pretending to be Elizabeth.
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Aug 29, 2014 06:31
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Gaius Marius posted:I ain't gonna argue with that. Unless you mean real life Nero who was a unexperinced nut job who bankrupted one of the richest countries in the world. I thought the more modern take on Nero was that the economy was going into the shitter anyway and he spent a lot of money on public works projects because of it. Also, champion of the poor and all (cutting their taxes, etc), meaning there was a concerted effort to portray him in the most negative light possible by the elites who were the only ones who could write in the first place.
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Aug 29, 2014 07:51
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Eej posted:I thought the more modern take on Nero was that the economy was going into the shitter anyway and he spent a lot of money on public works projects because of it. Also, champion of the poor and all (cutting their taxes, etc), meaning there was a concerted effort to portray him in the most negative light possible by the elites who were the only ones who could write in the first place. Historians certainly aren't as harsh on him as in the past but he was still an incompentent emperor. Being a champion of the people means nothing when you destroy the economic livelyhood of your country to do it. The idea of Rome going broke despite him is nonsensical just look at what Vespasian managed to do once he had gained control of the throne. Besides no amount of public works is going to change the fact that he probably killed his brother definitely killed his mother and castrated a young boy so he could marry him.
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Aug 29, 2014 08:20
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Beef Waifu posted:Can Batman kill servants?  Nyaa posted:Batman would be a great assassin. Gaius Marius posted:Nero was actually kind of an interesting character but her looking just like Arturia and being a woman was almost as dumb as Nero being considered a hero. Francis Drake being gender swapped in that game was also weird.
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Aug 29, 2014 22:20
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I always figure gender swapping is a good twist to the original tale and hide the servant's identity.
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Aug 30, 2014 02:52
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Nyaa posted:I always figure gender swapping is a good twist to the original tale and hide the servant's identity. Reusing that same trope is exceptionally lazy writing. Cardboard Box A posted:Well if you're going to have anywhere near parity of male/female servants then you're going to have to do some gender swapping. Naw man you just gotta get more creative Morgan le Fay, Boudica, Penthesilea, Calamity Jane bam there's four right there.
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Aug 30, 2014 08:31
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