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I just won a game where I was best buddies with Harun the entire time, even when we had differing ideologies, until a couple of turns after I voted against one of his proposals. He also voted against his own proposal, which I knew ahead of time, so I thought it wouldn't be a big deal. He even helped repeal it during the last vote. But apparently that was enough to make him denounce me. On the turn after denouncing me, he asks for an embassy exchange, which I grant. Great, rapprochement! The next thing he does is culture bomb me with two citadels. Well OK then,  have it your way
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Aug 29, 2014 00:11
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Gabriel Pope posted:I would not do that for an island, because land tiles are much more productive than water tiles and coastal cities need all the land they can get. For inland cities you can get away with a fair bit of overlap. I've been known to make cities on tiny, inhospitable islands just for the purposes of sending intenral trade routes around. In my current game I have Memphis on a three-tile island with one more land tile within workable range, and three fish. It's still 29 pop, bigger than Heliopolis which is also coastal but has a solid 20-odd land tiles. Also, I was just about to ask if the AI will use Great Tile Improvements ever, specifically citadels because I stole Coal and Silver from America with one and he has a Great General hanging around that vicinity, but the above post kind of answered that already. Drat. Guess I gotta bomb him.
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Aug 29, 2014 00:31
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MarquiseMindfang posted:Also, I was just about to ask if the AI will use Great Tile Improvements ever, specifically citadels because I stole Coal and Silver from America with one and he has a Great General hanging around that vicinity, but the above post kind of answered that already. Drat. Guess I gotta bomb him. The AI loving loves citadels. Also manufactories. They’re not so big on the other great person improvements.
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Aug 29, 2014 01:35
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I'm doing a one-city challenge. If I surround my city with military units, can't missionaries get in? It seems to be the case.
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Aug 29, 2014 15:00
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ManOfTheYear posted:I'm doing a one-city challenge. If I surround my city with military units, can't missionaries get in? It seems to be the case. Just stick an inquisitor in the city
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Aug 29, 2014 15:06
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DarthBlingBling posted:Just stick an inquisitor in the city Ugh. You have to move the inquisitor out of the city whenever you want to buy a great person though. FFS, why can't I just buy a dude and have him spawn nearby? E: same thing with buying military units. Sure, there's the problem of sieges, but just don't let me buy if there's not a valid space.
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Aug 29, 2014 15:08
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Pvt.Scott posted:Ugh. You have to move the inquisitor out of the city whenever you want to buy a great person though. FFS, why can't I just buy a dude and have him spawn nearby?
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Aug 29, 2014 15:13
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Pvt.Scott posted:Ugh. You have to move the inquisitor out of the city whenever you want to buy a great person though. FFS, why can't I just buy a dude and have him spawn nearby?  Inquisitors will protect a city from conversion if you station them adjacent to it!
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Aug 29, 2014 17:39
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Did CIV5 get rid of the annoying tetris mechanic necessary in properly positioning cities? It sounds like you can feed cities remotely? It's honestly probably the only complaint I've had about the series. It was annoying to capture a mediocre city and see that it was only one tile away from being super great.
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Aug 29, 2014 17:44
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Bouchacha posted:Did CIV5 get rid of the annoying tetris mechanic necessary in properly positioning cities? It sounds like you can feed cities remotely? Exact placement of cities is still important and the AI still gets them wrong, but it's mostly for things like having cities next to rivers, on hills, or next to mountains, all of which enable various useful buildings. CiV greatly expands the number of tiles a city can work compared to CIV, though, and also doesn't make most resource tiles quite as "swingy" in terms of their benefits compared to bare tiles, so it's not a huge deal if a resource isn't in the workable radius. It's also not generally a huge deal if there's overlap between cities, since there's so many workable tiles. Most cities don't need to work every single tile in their radius (hell, most cities won't get big enough to be able to work every tile in their radius), so sharing them with another city is fine. "Remote feeding" is using trade routes. You can build Caravan and Cargo Ship units up to a cap which is slowly expanded by unlocking techs. Each such unit can establish one trade route between two cities (one of which can be foreign, and there's nothing the other civ can do about it short of declaring war on you). Trade routes conjure gold out of thin air when established with foreign cities, and are the primary source of gold in the game. Between domestic cities they instead conjure hammers or food. Cargo ships are better at conjuration than caravans. I guess camels make poor magicians.
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Aug 29, 2014 17:52
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My general rule of thumb for cities is to space them out with 4-5 empty spaces between cities whenever possible. It allows for a bit of (healthy) overlap without clustering your cities too close together. Sometimes circumstances force you to build a bit farther/closer than that, but so it goes.
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Aug 29, 2014 18:35
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I always plant my cities too far away because I'll find a really juicy spot and gank it ASAP, leaving it blowing in the wind 20+ tiles away from my capital. That makes for tough defense on immortal, especially since that means nearby civs are probably coveting that city as soon as I plant it. I should really just make a healthy cluster of 2-4 cities and wait for the AI to build me some free wonders, tile improvements and buildings. I think I'll try that right now.
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Aug 29, 2014 18:48
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I love playing as Venice and the only city state that can be reached by sea in the renaissance era is a little shitpile in the tundra that Hiawatha wouldn't even settle.
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Aug 29, 2014 18:51
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I have a weird problem. I updated one of my mods with a minor change and now I can't load any saves I create. Maybe you have an idea, I put the previous working and current version on dropbox.
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Aug 29, 2014 19:25
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Gentlemen, BEHOLD: A not only reachable Krakatoa but one with a decent pile of resources near it!
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Aug 30, 2014 11:24
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Alkydere posted:Gentlemen, BEHOLD: If you managed to get Petra in that city it'd actually be really good! (To be fair, Mecca wants the hell out of Petra too. Desert is just so lovely most of the time.)
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Aug 30, 2014 16:46
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Generally speaking getting Krakatoa tends to require so many ocean tiles in your city radius that it's hardly worthwhile.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:45
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Finally knocked out that Wonder Years achievement after months of trying to figure out what the heck I'd missed. Didn't realize that national wonders count towards it, and today was the first time I bothered building a barracks in every city for the heroic epic wonder.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:23
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Plus it blows up and kills you in 1883
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Aug 30, 2014 20:25
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Cythereal posted:Finally knocked out that Wonder Years achievement after months of trying to figure out what the heck I'd missed. Didn't realize that national wonders count towards it, and today was the first time I bothered building a barracks in every city for the heroic epic wonder. Whenever I manage to snag Brandenburg Gate I make sure to build Heroic Epic in the same city ASAP. Nothing like having Artillery/Battleships popping out only a couple attacks away from logistics.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:29
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HappyHelmet posted:Whenever I manage to snag Brandenburg Gate I make sure to build Heroic Epic in the same city ASAP. Nothing like having Artillery/Battleships popping out only a couple attacks away from logistics. I'd never bothered plopping down barracks in all of my cities before, and I didn't realize that national wonders counted towards that achievement - I'd assumed it had bugged out from installing Brave New World before I finished the achievement in Gods and Kings. As it is, the Moroccan conquest of the world has proceeded with the Heroic Epic's aid and I am indeed currently building the Brandenburg Gate in the same city.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:47
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Heroic Epic is actually really good to get. Flat increases to combat effectiveness are extremely rare in Civ V, most of them are situational to the terrain. Add it to just one promotion for the relevant terrain, and that's a 30% strength increase, which means your unit should out-class anything it faces. One more promotion on top of that and it's basically a whole tech level ahead of the competition.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:52
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Yeah, if you're at the point where you're focusing on building military units, you owe it to yourself to have at least some of them come out of a Heroic Epic city.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:05
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Alkydere posted:Gentlemen, BEHOLD: Oh dear, that just gave me the vapors.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:04
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I honestly don't think I would even settle a city there.  edit: Eh, I probably would, but not until later in the game.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:05
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I honestly don't think I would even settle a city there. It's got Krakatoa and the cows & fish to let you work the tile. Why wouldn't you?
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Aug 30, 2014 22:31
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One of my real life friends would settle two cities with that location. Earlier today I played some hotseat with said friend on a huge lakes map with raging barbs and 6 AI. So many barbs everywhere. My friend was playing the Aztec and even though I was making more culture per turn he ended up two policies ahead of me by the Renascence from the constant slaughter.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:32
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SlightlyMadman posted:It's got Krakatoa and the cows & fish to let you work the tile. Why wouldn't you? I think it would be a good fourth or fifth city. There aren't enough workable tiles to make it a large powerhouse city, though (desert stone and marble are kinda poo poo). There's even tundra to the southwest to limit good tiles even further. Then the two luxuries are also in the capital, so there are no happiness benefits. And Krakatoa isn't even a very good natural wonder. It could become a pretty good city but I'd look for better spots first.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:39
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Poil posted:lakes map quote:raging barbs quote:My friend was playing the Aztec Unless you were the Aztecs as well, you lost that game before it even started. Sometimes a map just gives such a huge advantage to a particular civ that there's no reason to play anything else.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:40
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I think it would be a good fourth or fifth city. There aren't enough workable tiles to make it a large powerhouse city, though. There's even tundra to the southwest to limit good tiles even further. Then the two luxuries are also in the capital, so there are no happiness benefits. And Krakatoa isn't even a very good natural wonder. It could become a pretty good city but I'd look for better spots first. Well sure, if there's better spots then pick them first, but you've got a coastal city, on a hill, with two fish, cows, two sugar (on grassland), plus three hills, at least one grassland, and an oasis as Arabia. That's 10 workable tiles, half of which are great tiles. Krakatoa is an incredible natural wonder if you can get it early and work it right away. That's 5 beakers per turn. That will double his current science output.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:44
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SlightlyMadman posted:Well sure, if there's better spots then pick them first, but you've got a coastal city, on a hill, with two fish, cows, two sugar (on grassland), plus three hills, at least one grassland, and an oasis as Arabia. That's 10 workable tiles, half of which are great tiles. Krakatoa is an incredible natural wonder if you can get it early and work it right away. That's 5 beakers per turn. That will double his current science output. Well, I guess they can't all be winners, but it'd be nice if every Natural Wonder was at least food neutral--as they are now, they're kind of weird opportunity cost things unless you're Spain. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 23:13
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The White Dragon posted:My beef with Krakatoa is that it's a poor man's Great Barrier Reef, and GBR almost always spawns in resource-rich locations. I just can't get excited about a lovely mountain that produces science when it could've been two tiles that produce something stupid like 3 food, 2 hammers, and 4 science each. Yeah, GBR is absolutely amazing but what are you going to turn down every city spot that doesn't have it? And isn't GBR 2/2/2 (although granted there's two of them)?
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Aug 30, 2014 23:18
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Glidergun posted:Unless you were the Aztecs as well, you lost that game before it even started. Sometimes a map just gives such a huge advantage to a particular civ that there's no reason to play anything else. 
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Aug 30, 2014 23:39
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Krakatoa site could be a powerhouse city if it got Petra, which is dimly feasible with the resources there but if he's going to gamble on Petra it will be easier and more useful to try for it in Mecca. It's not a bad city otherwise but yeah like 4th or 5th city material.
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Aug 31, 2014 05:46
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Glidergun posted:Unless you were the Aztecs as well, you lost that game before it even started. Sometimes a map just gives such a huge advantage to a particular civ that there's no reason to play anything else. I've never been able to get into the civilizations like Aztecs. To me it looks like you go all-in on Jaguars early game, and if it works you're like a couple of cities up with maybe some civilizations eliminated for good. Then what? By then the other civs have built walls or have composite bowmen or whatever and at best you're even with them, due to forsaking buildings in favour of Jaguars. At worst, you don't accomplish much of anything and you might as well quit. I guess the idea is to get a quick culture headstart and a couple capitals? Maybe I'm wrong though, I'll play a game with them and see what happens.
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Aug 31, 2014 07:39
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Aztec cities next to lake or rivers get Floating Gardens, arguably the best UB in the game.
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Aug 31, 2014 07:44
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Jaguars are okay enough but not that huge a deal. Culture from kills is also a nice little perk but won't amount to all that much unless you go on a good and proper murdering spree. But the floating gardens are where it's at. They're a percentage buff to food (eaten and surplus) rather than growth (just surplus) like many other things are, which makes them really, really good.
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Aug 31, 2014 07:58
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Do The Evolution posted:I've never been able to get into the civilizations like Aztecs. To me it looks like you go all-in on Jaguars early game, and if it works you're like a couple of cities up with maybe some civilizations eliminated for good. Then what? By then the other civs have built walls or have composite bowmen or whatever and at best you're even with them, due to forsaking buildings in favour of Jaguars. At worst, you don't accomplish much of anything and you might as well quit. I guess the idea is to get a quick culture headstart and a couple capitals? Maybe I'm wrong though, I'll play a game with them and see what happens. As people have mentioned, the Jaguars are okay-ish, as is the UA, but honestly you can really ignore them other than having a handful of absolutely beastly melee units in your army throughout the ages if you protect and nurture your Jaguars. The Floating Gardens are so good that they absolutely dwarf the other bonuses. As far as I know it's the only food bonus that buffs food before its eaten. In the X-Y=Z equation to determine your growth per turn (Z), every other food bonus applies to Z and only Z. Floating Garden applies to X, giving a flat bonus to all food that comes in before your population chips away at it. The food bonus ends up being HUGE. For example: if you have 10 food coming in on a city that eats 8 food, any other 15% growth bonus would normally only give you 2.3 growth (8-10=2, 2x1.15=2.3). With the Floating Gardens you end up with 3.5 food (10x1.15=11.5 11.5-8=3.5). Anyways, as for the Actually Good Krakatoa map, I put my second city there and, though it took a while to grow at first, it was doing a great job becoming a strong city. However I eventually got bored of the game as I declared war on Augustus to the north (attacking him before he attacked me since he'd already taken out Askia and Bluetooth). I wasn't paying attention and it turned out Augustus was ally with 3 of my neighboring CSes. Easy to manage with Composites and later Crossbows, but Augustus's production high enough that he refused to make peace after I took a few cities no matter how many legions I crushed because I couldn't actually crush them fast enough to get close to and take his major cities. 
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Aug 31, 2014 08:30
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Do The Evolution posted:I've never been able to get into the civilizations like Aztecs. To me it looks like you go all-in on Jaguars early game, and if it works you're like a couple of cities up with maybe some civilizations eliminated for good. Then what? By then the other civs have built walls or have composite bowmen or whatever and at best you're even with them, due to forsaking buildings in favour of Jaguars. At worst, you don't accomplish much of anything and you might as well quit. I guess the idea is to get a quick culture headstart and a couple capitals? Maybe I'm wrong though, I'll play a game with them and see what happens. The thing about early game unique units is that their weird awesome bonuses are promotions and hence carry on when you upgrade them into better units. Because jaguars have no jungle / forest movement penalty (which happens to apply even if the forest or jungle is on a hill) they're almost as efficient as scouts, so instead of building scouts, you can build more jaguars. Taking honor is a no-brainer for Aztecs, and finishing that tree means that when killing a barb you get double culture and some gold. As mentioned a few times, Floating Gardens are an insane early-mid game building that keeps on giving all throughout the game, and the quicker population growth means that you can get better at everything and pick whatever specialists and tiles you want to go for, such as culture for example.
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Aug 31, 2014 08:34
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theSquid posted:The thing about early game unique units is that their weird awesome bonuses are promotions and hence carry on when you upgrade them into better units. Because jaguars have no jungle / forest movement penalty (which happens to apply even if the forest or jungle is on a hill) they're almost as efficient as scouts, so instead of building scouts, you can build more jaguars. Agreed. You want at least four Jaguars early-game, running around killing barbarians, scouting and making city states love you. Sometimes you can even bully city states early on. quote:Taking honor is a no-brainer for Aztecs, and finishing that tree means that when killing a barb you get double culture and some gold. [i]Opening/i] Honour is a no-brainer - easier barbarian kill and double culture from them is great. You shouldn't finish it because it's terrible. Go Tradition once Honour's been opened to maximise the effect of your Unique building.
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Aug 31, 2014 11:09
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