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Ravane posted:I'm not arguing against lgbt in a kids show, I'm telling you guys that there isn't one between Korra and Asami. They are friends, and you guys are turning it into your own personal sexual fanfiction. 1) You really can't separate thinking something would be cute, and wanting to see people gently caress can you? 2) There is no social issue where people think that women can't just be friends. There is, in fact, the opposite issue. 3)  gently caress you buddy, calm down.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:03
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Jesus Christ, chill the gently caress out, dude. At what point does "I think it would be really nice and progressive for this show to feature a gay relationship" become "lgbt children's cartoon fantasies" and "personal sexual fanfiction"? Because the former is all that I remember seeing in this thread. Wildeyes fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 19:08
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I'm sensing this is the wrong time to post this "what kind of bender are you?" test I found on the internet 
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Aug 30, 2014 19:11
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hiddenriverninja posted:I'm sensing this is the wrong time to post this "what kind of bender are you?" test I found on the internet Flaming.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:13
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Pomp posted:Flaming. Flameo, hotman.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:19
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PupsOfWar posted:if the "lavabending comes from mixed fire nation/earth nation heritage and technique" hypothesis is correct, then it could be a visual representation of that, with the greater upper-body focus that firebending usually has compared to earthbending. If that's true, wouldn't Mako be a lavabender too? Ravane posted:You know what, gently caress the gays. I don't give a poo poo. Hey, gently caress you too buddy! 
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Aug 30, 2014 19:22
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I wouldn't mind it if there were no romantic relationships at all -- gay or otherwise -- in every cartoon show, in order to avoid this sort of tedious discussion.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:24
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Pomp posted:1) You really can't separate thinking something would be cute, and wanting to see people gently caress can you? Nah, you're wrong.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:25
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Pomp posted:Flaming. that's okay, because lightningbending rules.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:27
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Ravane posted:Nah, you're wrong. Maybe when you find yourself typing "gently caress you and gently caress this thread", that's a hint that you should be taking a break from that thread for awhile instead of continuing to post in it. (Not to mention "gently caress the gays")
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Aug 30, 2014 19:27
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a straight white guy posted posted:I know better than you
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Aug 30, 2014 19:29
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I just don't think any of you fully appreciate the nuanced and evocative worldview that expressing an interest in seeing oppressed minority groups represented in quality media is the exact same thing as being sick hentai peddlers of perverse pedophilia.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:36
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thexerox123 posted:Maybe when you find yourself typing "gently caress you and gently caress this thread", that's a hint that you should be taking a break from that thread for awhile instead of continuing to post in it. I'll say it again, gently caress the gays. Also, there are no underlying lgbt themes in Korra. You can romanticize it all you want, but it will not happen, and is thus fanfiction. Will there be a time when lgbt stuff is introduced in Nick? Absolutely! There was an lgbt introduction done incredibly well in Good Luck Charlie (Disney). So it will happen, just not with Korra. Korra, specifically, the character Korra. If you want an introduction of a gay, bisexual, whatever character in a show, his orientation should not be the only thing about him. If they suddenly made Korra bisexual, her bisexuality would suddenly be her biggest selling point, and in my opinion that's wrong. But that's all anyone would ever talk about, and suddenly Korra is not "that badass avatar", she's "that bisexual avatar." Think Dumbledore. He was gay, but his orientation was never expounded upon. He simply was. Who was Dumbledore? He was headmaster of Hogwarts, the most badass wizard we've ever seen, and hell, he was a good man, the kind of guy you'd just want to chill with and just talk. If LGBT is to be included in modern media, that's how it needs to be included. Not "oops, I'm bisexual, isn't that cute?" Point is that if Korra was bisexual, it'd be too overt. You want lgbt in media? Stop talking about lgbt needing more lgbt in media. It'll happen on it's own. Pomp posted:a straight white guy posted posted: Wrong again, bisexual brown guy.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:45
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Ravane posted:I'll say it again, gently caress the gays. This post is so hilarious that I can't even formulate words.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:56
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Dumbledore is like the worst, laziest example of a gay character ever. A character that is only gay through subtext and covert undertones and that the literal only reason it's a thing at all is because the writer talked about it in an interview after the entire series was over. Basically, we can totally have our gay representation, but only in the absolute most hidden and invisible manner that has the absolute least effect on anything whatsoever. So the character can be gay as long as they're gay quietly. gently caress that. I have nothing against how Rowling chose to present her character and she's certainly under no obligation to have to do it one way or another, but to call that the "right" way to do it paints a pretty clear picture of your approach here.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:02
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Ravane posted:I'll say it again, gently caress the gays. This is word salad, dude. You're comparing a supporting cast member (Dumbledore) whose sexuality took several books to even MENTION in PASSING to a main character. You say that if we're just patient and keep our mouths shut and don't advocate, that LGBT characters will happen (it won't). You say that if Korra turned out to be gay or bisexual, that it would completely define her character, yet you say that these things should not define characters. Contradictory world salad nightmare, man. Maybe you should stop posting and bail on this thread.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:02
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I think this confirms the fact that you should have taken that as a hint to take a break from the thread.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:05
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Regardless of anything (or anyone) else, I think it's pretty clear that they did not choose to write Korra as bisexual.
Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 20:06
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Legs Benedict posted:You say that if Korra turned out to be gay or bisexual, that it would completely define her character, yet you say that these things should not define characters. The guy's not against LGBT theme, he's against introducing changes that are unearned and unsupported by what we've seen so far in this show.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:17
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But by that logic, every single character who ever comes out of the closet or realizes their own sexuality at some point through the course of the story is "unearned or unsupported." But if we actually take the time to explore that aspect of this character's identity slowly and consistently over time, he'd argue that we're putting too much focus on it and making the character "all about" their sexuality. If Korra was making shy blushing glances at Asami from the first time they'd met, he'd still argue that it completely overtakes the rest of her character, nevermind that it's just business as usual when she does the same to Mako. It's a trap. Because of the way we've been conditioned our entire lives by the utter absence of queer characters, spending as much time and effort on a character's queer identity as you would someone's heterosexual identity all of a sudden feels like "too much" and "pandering." And at the same time, if they try to do it after they've firmly established the character outside of her sexuality, all of a sudden it's "inorganic" and also "pandering." (Really, "pandering" has long since been the catch-all buzzword for any decision that remotely messes with any viewer's comfort zone.) So all we're left with is the Dumbledore Method where it just isn't talked about and doesn't influence anything and you wouldn't even know the character was anything other than straight if it wasn't included in the literary equivalent of DVD Bonus Features. I, personally, am not gunning for Korra and Asami to be a couple and I agree that they will probably not end up being one*. But the rationales against it that I've seen here (on top of the "Ew you're all just sick internet sickos who want sick poo poo in my children's show" claims) are the bona fide exact specific direct reasons why queer representation is still a heavily-uphill battle even in this day and age. *That said, that final scene of Asami holding her hand did seem very intentionally provocative to me, and I honestly don't blame anyone if they read more into it.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:45
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Usually there's foreshadowing.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:47
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Spergatory posted:If that's true, wouldn't Mako be a lavabender too? In that scenario, Mako wouldn't be able to become a lavabender because he's a firebender, and although lavabending sort of fits in the universe (it's basically icebending but applied to another element and a lot rarer) as an extension of earthbending, it really wouldn't make sense for a firebender to be able to do it. BrianWilly posted:Dumbledore is like the worst, laziest example of a gay character ever. Sorry for this one, I'm just really bad at getting subtext and when I heard about this being in the seventh book, my reaction was basically "Really? Huh, I probably missed something!". It's nothing in comparison to my "seething contempt" for Bryke when I heard that Unalaq was meant to come off as a restrained and precise fighter, reminiscing of a fencer. Yeah, they confused the dad for the children here, and if that was really their intention, the failure was all kinds of epic. blurry! posted:Idk about lbgt relationships, but I did like how Toph had two children out of wedlock with two different, unknown men and the show gives no shits about that. That was pretty neat of the show.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:57
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I never even thought about lavabending being about a style, I just figured it was rapidly vibrating the rock in miniscule chunks to create heat and melt. Where earthbending is normally about big, relatively stiff motions and grounding, it would be about fine control and precision...which I guess is kind of firebending.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:02
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BrianWilly posted:It's a trap. Because of the way we've been conditioned our entire lives by the utter absence of queer characters, spending as much time and effort on a character's queer identity as you would someone's heterosexual identity all of a sudden feels like "too much" and "pandering." And at the same time, if they try to do it after they've firmly established the character outside of her sexuality, all of a sudden it's "inorganic" and also "pandering." I don't want you to think that I'm some grumpy dwarf that is always unhappy. If they introduce Korra as bisexual or whatever, I'd probably say 'Eh, I'm not feeling this' but I would also give this show a chance. If they manage to pleasantly surprise me, if they really pull off the story that incorporates new elements while not betraying Korra's character and not overshadowing the features that made her great, I'd be the first to admit my own foolishness. It's just that I don't particularly have a lot of confidence in the ability of screenwriters to tell that sort of story. Again, I may be wrong.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:04
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Pomp posted:I never even thought about lavabending being about a style, I just figured it was rapidly vibrating the rock in miniscule chunks to create heat and melt. Where earthbending is normally about big, relatively stiff motions and grounding, it would be about fine control and precision...which I guess is kind of firebending.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:09
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PiedPiper posted:There are great screenwriters who are able to tell the stories about characters, not about their characteristic features. Sadly, there are also those who want to discuss the characters solely through their traits. So, if there's a romantic comedy about, say, overweight woman, usually the premise is 'Will she be able to find her true love DESPITE BEING SO ENORMOUSLY FAT?'. Her obesity becomes the sole purpose of existing in this show, her story is told THROUGH her 'main' feature. She is not seen as a normal human being, she's seen as this person with a flaw/obstacle/whatever. The thing is, these writers have only ever done that with Bolin's goofiness. There has never been a single point in either series where someone went "How can [character] be so badass DESPITE BEING A GIRL," and there's no reason to think they'd handle it that poorly. The worst case scenario here is really just another lovely amount of focus on a poorly written romance. This is a series that has prominent single, childless middle aged people, a long history of well rounded women, a blind single mother of two, and I'm sure there's more poo poo I'm forgetting. Their missteps with rounding out and respecting characters that exist outside the media norm are rare, it's really just the mako/korra triangle that needed to die. edit: Like, people can call it "a kids show" all they want, but this is still a series that explores a lot of themes and concepts that you're lucky to get shows written for adults to look at. The Last Airbender won a peabody for a reason. Pomp fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 21:11
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The show got way better the less they focused on anybody's love life so having Korra come out or be revealed as bi/gay would require a lot of screen time to be given proper respect and not seem jarring. She's been depicted as heterosexual so far, and I'd really not have them devote time to her discovering her sexual orientation when it'd be way more interesting to watch her -find more airbenders -rebuild Ba Sing Se -battle with Red Lotus members -avert natural disasters -explore the spirit world -heal rifts between different cultures -spar with Lin -tour the post-industrial bending world -ride elephant Koi What gets Korra's motor going is like the least interesting thing they already featured.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:11
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Pomp posted:I never even thought about lavabending being about a style, I just figured it was rapidly vibrating the rock in miniscule chunks to create heat and melt. Where earthbending is normally about big, relatively stiff motions and grounding, it would be about fine control and precision...which I guess is kind of firebending. Then again, up until the pro-bending era of benders, wasn't traditional Earthbending more about making the biggest show of strength you can by hurling boulders around? Hell, Toph's metalbending was one of the first displays of focusing in on a smaller level that we saw in the original series; it could be that someone took that basic concept, and started trying to figure out other new forms of Earthbending, with Lavabending being one such result.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:13
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PiedPiper posted:But as early as Season 1, Bolin already told Korra that her classical 'stiff' style of earthbending wouldn't fly in probending, he actually recommended staying on one's toes and moving like a boxer. What we've seen about bending styles in LoA has changed drastically since then.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:14
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Pomp posted:The worst case scenario here is really just another lovely amount of focus on a poorly written romance.  quote:This is a series that has prominent single, childless middle aged people, a long history of well rounded women, a blind girl a single mother of two, and I'm sure there's more poo poo I'm forgetting. PiedPiper fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 21:15
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blurry! posted:The show got way better the less they focused on anybody's love life so having Korra come out or be revealed as bi/gay would require a lot of screen time to be given proper respect and not seem jarring. She's been depicted as heterosexual so far, and I'd really not have them devote time to her discovering her sexual orientation when it'd be way more interesting to watch her Not saying that's the direction they're gonna go, or the direction I think they should go, but it's a direction.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:16
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Lava bending is basically like how water benders don't just move water around, but can change it around its three states. Lava is the liquid form of earth just as ice is the solid form of water. And by this logic lightning is just the "solid" form of fire because it's like focused heat/power. So it works by a certain form of logic, really.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:19
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We also know as of the Book 3 finale that mercury, or a highly similar substance, can be metalbent, in a style similar to waterbending.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:27
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Legs Benedict posted:You say that if Korra turned out to be gay or bisexual, that it would completely define her character, yet you say that these things should not define characters. This is not contradictory at all. Korra being bisexual at this point in time would come completely out of nowhere, and yes, essentially define her character for the rest of the show. That's not what should happen. The media headlines would be "nick cartoon character is bisexual." Forums posts would discuss how incredible it was that Korra is bisexual (nevermind that there was no character development), and it would preface everything that she did. "That's Korra, the bisexual avatar!" What should be the appropriate response? "Oh cool, she's gay." And that's it. Her sexuality need not be overplayed. Why? Because it's not important whatsoever. It's like if Korra adopted Zoroastrianism randomly and people started saying, "Oh that's Korra, the orthodox Zoroastrian Avatar." Like her religion had anything to do with her avatar capabilities. She's no longer just Korra, the avatar. And what's happening on this forum is that some hapless horny goons have taken some innocent hand-holding to mean "future relationship" when that clearly isn't the case. Human contact, especially between friends, does not equal relationship. Guess what, that only proves my point that people are making and going to make a big deal out of nothing. Think George Takei. He's best known as Sulu from Star Trek, not that gay guy who's really internet famous. Gay doesn't define George Takei, his job did, his comedic catchphrase "oh myyy" defines him. He's just a guy that happens to prefer men. That's what you want an LGBT character to be. You want the trait to fit the character, not the character to fit the trait. BrianWilly posted:Dumbledore is like the worst, laziest example of a gay character ever. A character that is only gay through subtext and covert undertones and that the literal only reason it's a thing at all is because the writer talked about it in an interview after the entire series was over. Basically, we can totally have our gay representation, but only in the absolute most hidden and invisible manner that has the absolute least effect on anything whatsoever. So the character can be gay as long as they're gay quietly. If you read the history of Dumbledore, you can absolutely tell that Dumbledore loved Grindlewald. It's not lazy at all, it just wasn't overt. Dumbledore didn't talk about his relationships or his life because it was too heartbreaking. The point was that being gay was a facet of his character, being in love with his best friend led to his own sister's death. However, Dumbledore wasn't defined as the big gay ol' wizard. People always want this caricature of LGBT relationships. It seems progressive simply because it's depicted, but in my opinion, it only does more harm to the community. I'd rather a character be written well and be straight, than be gay and have that dictate the rest of his actions. You want an LGBT character? Ask for one that's written well. Forcing Korra into a nonsensical relationship is stupid and unnecessary.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:30
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I think the safest (read: safest, not the most admirable or ideal) outcome, and the outcome that is most likely to occur given the circumstances, is that Bryke will make someone like Desna queer. He fits a lot of the stereotypes, but not in an overwhelmingly negative way, and is enough of a tertiary character that it wouldn't step on any toes or draw too much ire from the folks liable to be angry about this sort of things. And even then, even given all that, I wouldn't posit it as being very likely at all since this is ultimately a Nickelodeon-produced series. To stress: I'm not saying this is the greatest thing, but it's the likeliest thing as things stand. The next wrung up from that -- as in, something that is concurrently a better outcome but even less likely to happen -- is for them to make either Bumi or Kya gay, and use that to explain why either one of them haven't married yet. They are support characters, but important enough to be very well-developed and likable. And since they're older adult characters, their sexualities also draw less ire from ire-prone folks than the younger characters do. Sad, and strange...but true. But since they're rather important characters who have played large roles in plots, I can still see the network being incredibly reluctant to go there. The final wrung -- the one that would affect the most progress and importance but has almost no likeliness of occurring, from my perspective -- is, of course, for any one of the four young leads to be queer. But I don't think it will happen simply because of the potential fallback. And again, I'm not saying it's a good thing that it won't happen, just that this is the situation as it stands now.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:38
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This is some grade A concern trolling.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:39
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Pomp posted:I never even thought about lavabending being about a style, I just figured it was rapidly vibrating the rock in miniscule chunks to create heat and melt. Where earthbending is normally about big, relatively stiff motions and grounding, it would be about fine control and precision...which I guess is kind of firebending. I mean, although lavabending works on the same principle than icebending, how it works feels really different. Whereas waterbenders can all create ice and even turn it back into water, once a lavabender creates himself some lava, it's like a completely different element that ordinary earthbenders can't even hope to manipulate, which they move around like water and that can be cooled down into a material that is no longer rock but something else (which apparently can resist the liquid lava)
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Aug 30, 2014 21:41
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I honestly don't think they're going the Korra/Asami route, but drat you guys are over complicating the whole idea. They wouldn't need to draw out anything. Just show their friendship building for a bit, then have a scene where they realize there's more to it. Anyway, I hope we get to see some killer lightning bending next book. It's fire's time to shine again, and Korra learning to lightning bend could help get her out of her funk. The circular motions of lightning bending always reminded me of airbending. It'd be cool to see an airbending inspired firebender spinning lightning bolts around. i hate meatloaf fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 21:45
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So um... I really like this show and all. I've been trying to get people to watch it but once I tell my friends its a cartoon show for kids they don't really care enough to give it a chance. Making them start over with the first season of Aang's doesn't help either. Any tips?
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Aug 30, 2014 21:51
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X_Toad posted:It's just that Ghazan uses his elbows a lot more than any other earthbender, so I wondered if there was a connection with his unique lavabending. Maybe the inflexible, unyielding nature of earth as an element and the stubborn, rigid mindset of many traditional earth benders erects a barrier that water benders don't experience w/r/t the phase shifting of water's different states. Maybe Lava bending is akin to blood bending on that only a few have the psyche for it?
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Aug 30, 2014 21:52
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