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Arsenic Lupin posted:Quoted for truth. Lord Haw Haw did not actually have any legal obligation to the British government, but people were angry enough at him that it didn't matter. Any similarities to rendition (by any government, not just the U.K.) are left to the reader. He was British enough to become a leader of the British Union of Fascists and he chose to become a British citizen. And why the gently caress are people trying to defend Nazis and fascists in this thread?
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Aug 30, 2014 19:20
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Jedit posted:He was British enough to become a leader of the British Union of Fascists and he chose to become a British citizen. Getting the facts right and trying to understand people does not equal defending them
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Aug 30, 2014 19:22
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ThomasPaine posted:Getting the facts right and trying to understand people does not equal defending them If he became a British citizen, what prevented him from being tried for treason?
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Aug 30, 2014 20:03
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Kurtofan posted:If he became a British citizen, what prevented him from being tried for treason? Hell if I know, I'm not a lawyer!
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Aug 30, 2014 20:07
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Jedit posted:He was British enough to become a leader of the British Union of Fascists and he chose to become a British citizen. quote:And why the gently caress are people trying to defend Nazis and fascists in this thread? Because due process of law matters, especially when applied to Nazis, fascists, or terrorists. From the Penguin Famous Trials summary. J.W. Hall posted:... much to my surprise I have found, with a universal reprobation of Joyce's conduct, a very considerable feeling, shared by lawyers and laymen, servicemen and civilians, that (with the utmost respect to the eight out of nine learned judges) the decision was wrong, and that an unmeritorious case has been made bad law. The feeling is not so much that Joyce, having been convicted, should have been reprieved, but that he should not have been convicted.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:16
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Jedit posted:And why the gently caress are people trying to defend Nazis and fascists in this thread? I'll make an exception for Piers Morgan though.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:26
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Ddraig posted:Against civilians and badly disciplined local militias they're making major gains, against any sort of real resistance they're having less effect. quote:ISIS are not particularly scary if you're reading this, sorry. You may feel scared but it's largely irrational. They're not going to be bringing down Western civilization any time soon. Thinking they will is almost at Israeli levels of delusion, but at least they have the fact ISIS are quite near as an excuse. Who is saying anything close to that? Or is it double-Israeli to ask?
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Aug 30, 2014 21:32
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Yeah, I doubt even UKIP nutters think ISIS poses any threat to "Western civilization", nobody wants to the ones to die in the odd bombing, though (+ the political consequences).
Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 21:35
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Regarding the attack on George Galloway, I heard that the police are going to charge the loon who attacked him with "religiously motivated assault", I'm no expert in British law, but shouldn't an attack against an MP be considered an act against the state ( or better yet terrorism) or something? It makes it seem like it's a scuffle between private citizens rather than an attack against an elected official.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:00
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The less connection between George Galloway and the state, the better.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:10
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Survation did a constituency poll of Clacton 
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Aug 30, 2014 22:21
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Al-Saqr posted:Regarding the attack on George Galloway, I heard that the police are going to charge the loon who attacked him with "religiously motivated assault", I'm no expert in British law, but shouldn't an attack against an MP be considered an act against the state ( or better yet terrorism) or something? It makes it seem like it's a scuffle between private citizens rather than an attack against an elected official. Supposedly it's this guy (top post is "Neil is my carer and I stand by him and this attack that he obviously felt he had to do to George Galloway. He is a very kind and decent man who obviously felt he had to do what he did"), seems to be a big fan of Israel, UKIP, Britain First, and not such a big fan of Muslims.
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Aug 30, 2014 22:53
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Brown Moses posted:Supposedly it's this guy (top post is "Neil is my carer and I stand by him and this attack that he obviously felt he had to do to George Galloway. He is a very kind and decent man who obviously felt he had to do what he did"), seems to be a big fan of Israel, UKIP, Britain First, and not such a big fan of Muslims. Wowzers that.... sure is a thing!
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Aug 30, 2014 23:07
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twoot posted:Survation did a constituency poll of Clacton Why the hell does a seaside tourist resort care that much about Immigration?
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Aug 30, 2014 23:08
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Not So Fast posted:Why the hell does a seaside tourist resort care that much about Immigration? Probably because there's no jobs, they need someone to blame and an undefined, sinister mass of immigrants is an easy scapegoat.
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Aug 30, 2014 23:10
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Not So Fast posted:Why the hell does a seaside tourist resort care that much about Immigration? A seaside resort in Essex.
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Aug 30, 2014 23:27
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Probably because there's no jobs, they need someone to blame and an undefined, sinister mass of immigrants is an easy scapegoat. The immigration rate is too high. The people don't have a say. Even when the ruling coalition wants to restrict, it can't. There are a lot of reasons without having to resort to ad hominim.
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Aug 30, 2014 23:35
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SelfOM posted:The immigration rate is too high. The people don't have a say. Even when the ruling coalition wants to restrict, it can't. There are a lot of reasons without having to resort to ad hominim. We just can't cope with all these immigrants coming here! It's too high! *cuts funding to everything* See?
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Aug 30, 2014 23:44
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SelfOM posted:The immigration rate is too high. Says who?
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Aug 30, 2014 23:50
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Says the people of Clacton, evidently - which in an election is really all that matters.
kapparomeo fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 23:54
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Democracy only if it gets the result I want! Proles can't think for themselves. Duh
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Aug 30, 2014 23:56
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SelfOM posted:The immigration rate is too high. The people don't have a say. Even when the ruling coalition wants to restrict, it can't. There are a lot of reasons without having to resort to ad hominim. These are all tied into the politicised idea of an undefined, sinister mass of immigrants though. "There's too many and even the government can't stop them!!!"
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Aug 30, 2014 23:59
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SelfOM posted:Democracy only if it gets the result I want! Proles can't think for themselves. Duh -The arm of the mass media propaganda machine
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Aug 30, 2014 23:59
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SelfOM posted:Democracy only if it gets the result I want! Proles can't think for themselves. Duh It's ok to call a majority position loving stupid/xenophobic/whatever if it actually is.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:01
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namesake posted:It's ok to call a majority position loving stupid/xenophobic/whatever if it actually is. How is it xenophobic to want to restrict immigration. Studies have shown that immigration doesn't do anything above having population growth that having more children would also do. edit: and the per capita wealth can drop depending on GDP growth. SelfOM fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 00:04
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SelfOM posted:How is it xenophobic to want to restrict immigration. I dunno, how is it homophobic to hate faggots?
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Aug 31, 2014 00:08
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Not So Fast posted:-The arm of the mass media propaganda machine Which is consistently in favor of more immigration.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:08
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SelfOM posted:How is it xenophobic to want to restrict immigration. Studies have shown that immigration doesn't do anything above having population growth that having more children would also do. So it's literally the same as people having children except for they have different names and religions and languages? That's the xenophobic part. Edit: Unless you're into forced population control for everyone of course.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:09
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TinTower posted:I dunno, how is it homophobic to hate faggots? Restricting is not hating.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:09
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SelfOM posted:How is it xenophobic to want to restrict immigration. Studies have shown that immigration doesn't do anything above having population growth that having more children would also do. Good luck, fella 
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Aug 31, 2014 00:09
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namesake posted:So it's literally the same as people having children except for they have different names and religions and languages? That's the xenophobic part. Except the act of having their own children makes most people happier?
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Aug 31, 2014 00:09
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SelfOM posted:Except the act of having their own children makes most people happier? Well ok but I doubt people are thinking 'well I'd love kids but these bloody immigrants are taking up all the space in my womb'.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:11
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Says who? Says everyone who can't comprehend the scale of the numbers involved or any of the nuance effects population change has on job opportunities, and so analogise it in their heads as a big game of musical chairs (where the number of chairs is a) static and b) never larger than the total population minus all immigrants) SelfOM posted:There are a lot of reasons without having to resort to ad hominim. Just because the townspeople involved would take offence to being told they're wrong and stupid does not make it an ad hom.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:13
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When you think about it in terms of birthrates, it's probably xenophobic to hate faggots.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:14
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namesake posted:Well ok but I doubt people are thinking 'well I'd love kids but these bloody immigrants are taking up all the space in my womb'. A larger population on finite resources makes it a lot harder to have children. It simply isn't affordable for a lot of people. 11-15% of the UK population is foreign born and this doesn't include their children. To say that immigration hasn't significantly increased the population size and density is an outright lie.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:16
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Renaissance Robot posted:
Calling people stupid does make it ad hom? And you're only arguments presented are, that it's xenophobic.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:18
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SelfOM posted:Calling people stupid does make it ad hom? And you're only arguments presented are, that it's xenophobic. Technically it's only really an ad hom if the validity of the argument rests on a personal attack. Insulting someone after you've already proved them wrong is just insulting them and doesn't really make a difference to anything. e: Also I can't tell if you're a troll or not. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 00:22
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SelfOM posted:Calling people stupid does make it ad hom? And you're only arguments presented are, that it's xenophobic. Immigrants also bring massive gains in the form of taxes paid and money spent, as well as filling holes in the job market for workers with particular skills. You twat.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:25
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Praseodymi posted:Immigrants also bring massive gains in the form of taxes paid and money spent, as well as filling holes in the job market for workers with particular skills. Did you not read the first statement I said where gains are no different than a normal increasing population size.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:28
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SelfOM posted:A larger population on finite resources makes it a lot harder to have children. It simply isn't affordable for a lot of people. 11-15% of the UK population is foreign born and this doesn't include their children. To say that immigration hasn't significantly increased the population size and density is an outright lie. So immigration does have other effects, that's not what you initially said before but ok. Having children being so expensive that it puts people off doesn't necessarily relate to immigration at all, it relates to income and access to the sorts of services that parents and children need, which is a much more general economic issue; it still can be a problem if there were no immigration at all and if population growth was suddenly fueled entirely by native births then there'd still be a problem at the current level of provision of these services and income levels because they are insufficient for the level of demand. Immigration isn't the root cause, is the basis of my argument, and stopping immigration is at best a half solution for those living in the UK and a serious detriment to the people of the rest of the world.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:28
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